Psycoprophet.8107

I don’t like this class whaaaa,I just got bursted by a class that’s dead in two hits whaaaa nurf nurf it’s to op lol man I die constantly yet I’d never want another class gutted basically ruining a class that’s fun for others,asking for small adjustments or buff in ur own class is one thing but to want a class ruined is another. DE arnt that big an issue lol

I like thief a lot. not a fan of DE,just don’t find it very fun personally but I love that it creates soo much salt and whining haha I hope more thief players get tired of their gutted core/dd specs( again ruined by whiner cry babies) and jump onto DE and produce more even more salt, community deserves it lol

Not saying their not, just thief winning 1v1 is more impressive than other classes doing the same

> @"Shining One.1635" said:

> I have to question the logic of these video creators. They say thief is weak and then make a video showing nothing other than thief winning fights to somehow illustrate the point that thief is weak. If you want to support your argument, wouldn't it make sense to include some losses?

They show these vids cuz no ones impressed with say ranger as example winning 1v1 fights. Picking a class that is the most difficult to 1v1 with and showing only mostly successful fights and not the many unsuccessfully leads to more of conclusion that the player is skilled with said class

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> Yikes these comments about thief being good in 1v1 tell me some of you stumbled in from the PVE section.

Their noobs or trolling lol

Thief’s arenet widely known as a +1 due to good dueling capabilities

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > In any case it doesn't say much about the balancing of the game. That's what the numbers are for.

> And what does the numbers say? That there is 5x as many necros as there are thieves on a map, therefor necros are weak? Pros and cons in an RPG class system that gives certain classes advantages in certain situations. Thats how the game is played. Or are thieves also allowed to argue that they should be buffed in 1v1 **because** they are so much weaker in zerging than necro?

Do not compare necro to thief. Necro is a far better 1v1 and Zerg class than thief will ever be. Necro can duel and be one of two main contributors to zergs,the other being fb, they just don’t make good Roamer due to mobility issues

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> That reminds me of the "Rogues" in vanilla WoW. They were the #1 whiners while their class was most likely the strongest 1v1 in the game for at least 3 expacs.

>

>

If u think thief is in ballpark of even a good 1v1 u know far less about this game than u think lol

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> Both thumbnails in those 2 posted vids are waaay too whiny, especially for one of the most efficient solo roaming class topkek

Naw seems accurate these days

Ranger,mirage and holo are obviously ur other best Roamer but I find them boring so that’s why I said guard even tho it’s not a Roamer lol

> @"Artaz.3819" said:

> > @"LaFurion.3167" said:

> > I have been maiming thief

>

> LOL

>

>

> If you look at the buff pattern/nerf pattern of ANet, you can clearly draw the line that you either play Deadeye or you are severely handicapping yourself. At one point about a year back, ANet was actually buffing Deadeye trait line and nerfing all other core Thief and hard nerfing DD (RIP [Dash](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dash_(trait_skill) "Dash")) thereby moving all the special improvements to DE thereby forcing the Deadeye's mechanics. So here you are in the state of Thief today...after a core mechanic of survivability of thief being nerfed.

>

> With WvW players whining about an overpowered Rifle trait (rightfully so) allowing easy perma-stealth amongst other things but what ANet did to fix in the more recent months update was not to modify the overpowered rifle trait problem but instead nerf all thief stealth builds. Thanks to the stealth nerf with [Detected!](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Detected! "Detected!"), Anet does not even want core Thief played in this game mode at the moment since they dialed stealth nerf too high which means now the only truly good Thief build is now Staff evasion (which pales in comparison to Mirage). You can still run a loner/roamer Thief build and do OK in WvW but ...

>

> TL;DR Until DE burst/rifle is nerfed, Thief remains at the bottom and only the best/most dedicated Thief players remain. Warrior is not far behind. Best move on to a new class or a new ... well ... you know.

>

This is accurate imho, instead of dialing in DE arenet nurfed core/DD further as if they only want thief players to invest in the DE spec.the only other explanation is they are so clueless on the thief class itself that they didn’t know how to reign in DE without negatively impacting core/DD. Op try travelers ruin on core guard or dh,obviously not as mobile but atleast u stand on equal ground in most 1v1 Roamer and u can contribute a bit to zergs as well

Another common cry is how they are able to reset fights and how annoying it is to fight a thief resetting and want thiefs mobility nurfed further yet no one mentions any compensation for the loss of mobility and low hp/sustain,the reason thief resets in first place is due to it not being able to sustain fights passed its burst because it can’t take a hit. Plus now soulbeast,mesmers and holo’s can reset as well lol

It amazes me a class can receive so many nurfs that it is a class now relegated to a +1 decap role. The numerous nurfs over the yrs has changed thief to a degree that it’s very own in game description no longer applies to its current iteration.ive heard many top thief players on streams etc raging over fellow thief players trying to 1v1 and getting downed, even the top players don’t want to chance a 1v1. So before people start saying I and others must suck and that they can duel against any class,than why do these really skilled players avoid duels and only +1?how is an average player gonna fare? It has been brought to arenet attention that thief’s in game discription is opisite of their current playstyle and their reply was thief isn’t meant to duel but is meant to be a +1 fighter. That seems like a excuse for not admitting they went too far with nurfs and now it’s in a state that it has to fight opponents distracted or injured to not be st a disadvantage? That’s not a role that should even exist imho.i could see classes that are strait bruisers taking on 1v2 being a thing but a role that’s +1? A class widely known as a +1 is literally stating it is at a disadvantage in a 1v1 no? Thief relies on quick burst and back stabs to down opponents and that was balanced by low hp/sustain and ur defensive strategy was using ur mobility to avoid damage. Over the yrs damage and mobility have been lowered all they while other classes saw increase in damage and mobility with blocks and invulnerability thrown ontop so now thief players are left with a shell of what they once were pitted up against these new powercrept classes. DE uses perma stealth tactics to be most effective and core/DD use their quickness to +1 an opponent or down already injured opponents which produces more salty players than other playstyles so non thief players will always rally for thief nurfs. I also am not a DE fan and I apologize for the wall of text

> @"LaFurion.3167" said:

> I have been maiming thief for 4 months now, playing it exclusively since I crafted bolt and incinerator for it. I am very sad to say that while I had a tonne of fun for the first month or so, I find thief just not fun.

>

>

> Here are my 2 cents.

>

> 1) dead eye. This is not fun to me. I don't like stealthing forever and trying to one shot gimmick some noob looking at map. That's all this elite spec does.

>

> 2) I HATE how broken dagger storm is.... but concede that it is our only saving grace currently. Nerf after nerf after buff jk nerf. I hit like a wet noodle. In full marauder gear with berserker trinkets my larceneous strike criteria for 6-7k~ with around 20+ stacks of might.

>

>

> My reaper shroud auto hits for way harder not to mention faster with trait. Soul beast auto can critical for 10k+ from range. We have nothing else that is on part with other classes. Dagger storm is so unfun to press for 4 and a half seconds of dodge and good damage with no counter play and it's not fun to be dagger stormed on.

>

>

> 3) I hate not having a role. We in zergs with every other medium class, and roaming is just getting 1v4 or 1v zerged. I'll have around 1 GOOD fightsevery 5-10 minutes or so. Maybe not bad to some but it's just a pitiful amount of action when compared to other games.

>

>

> Fixes? I don't know. We have had so many nerfs over such a long period of time that we have gone the opposite direction of power creep.... power.... decay? With marauder gear I have 15k-16k hp.... what!?!

>

> I don't know how to fix it but I'll be playing ranger for now.... pew pew long bow 2....

>

>

> I don't want to jump on the thief I'd trash bandwagon but I feel like I've been deluding myself that the class is fun. It requires 100% concentration to play and one mistake you are deadededed.

>

>

> As a thief main... seriously. Nerf dagger storm. It's not fun. And buff thief somehow to compensate.

I agree thief core/DD being underperforming now after so many yrs of nurfs but get ready for a lot to f DE players and non thief players roasting u saying their in a great spot lol

I’ve been playing 3 yrs now and as of late I see very few thieves win duels out right, usually +1,picking off players low on hp and or stealth range bursting them lol if I clas has to burst opponents that are already in a fight and or range burst are they really effective? Or is the player knowing the thief is at a disadvantage unless it uses a tactic as such? Although maybe I’m just not a good enough theif to 1v1 a ranger,holo,guard,rev,warrior etc,though new mirage players and necros seem like decent match ups. Also why are their so many complaints about thieves resetting? Isn’t that because if they don’t their dead? Is there so many resets warranting these complaints because all thief’s are bad at fighting anything that’s not half dead?maybe the reason their considered a +1 decap in pvp not because they have to use strategy like attacking players already dueling or that are already almost in down state but because all players are just bad a thieves like me lol. Definitely could be the case

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I tried DE and it’s not as easy as I thought I’d be through reading post lol I’m used to the mobility of core s/d or dd builds. The stealth aspect allowed me to rifle burst unsuspecting opponents but the kneeling aspect locking u in place got me killed quite a few times lol. You definitely have to know how to escape on DE if ur busy fails. I stick up for thieves a lot yet I play core guard,ranger and some necro more than I do thief,though 1st year I played only thief. As far as the community is concerned where’s guard sitting? Lol

> When you start judging classes by *how you play them* any sort of argument on balance falls apart.

>

> I have seen the really bad, the mediocre, the good and the insane fight me across all classes. Thats how I judge them. If I slap around 9 out 10 thieves like babies but then meet a thief that is basicly immortal and kills everything in sight, I'm not going to judge the thief by those 9. I'm going to judge the thief by that 1, because that shows the potential of the class. How good **I** play the thief is irrelevant (hint: I'm one of the 9).

True but the problem with judging a class on its potential and not how well a average player can perform on it is that some players can out play others while using a blatantly weaker class due to skill and knowledge of the game. I’m sure there’s a point where a class is so weak that even askilled player can’t carry it. On the other hand if a class is only known to be effective in very skilled hands comparative to how effective other classes are in only average players,are thief on par? If ranger was known to only be effective with players of high skill and or 9 outa 10 people were not skilled enough to be effective but that one player being very highly skilled and knowledgeable was able to be effective with the ranger would you say it’s balanced in line with the rest of the classes. I wouldnt

I tried DE and it’s not as easy as I thought I’d be through reading post lol I’m used to the mobility of core s/d or dd builds. The stealth aspect allowed me to rifle burst unsuspecting opponents but the kneeling aspect locking u in place got me killed quite a few times lol. You definitely have to know how to escape on DE if ur busy fails. I stick up for thieves a lot yet I play core guard,ranger and some necro more than I do thief,though 1st year I played only thief. As far as the community is concerned where’s guard sitting? Lol

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I apologize for bad format as I wrote it quick while I was watching tv with the gf and wasn’t really paying attention lol and I also apologize for mentioning MUd in the post,I went back through posts and I had mistaken him for another poster

>

> dont worry i generally do not ask for nerfs or buffs, only when confronted with a suggestion i might try to find a comproise between that one and what i want to be able to do. thats why i mostly comment on thief related posts instead of builds that could give me trouble in any situation.

>

> and dont get me wrong i do not intent to comment on core/DD performance in current game as i havent played them enough recently to do so. yet when you talk about thief, that includes my DE aswell and i feel far from weak with it. considering that i am one of those stealth heavy deadeyes that spent more time inside enemy keeps/towers than outside, i bet i did contribute my share to the recent mark changes. however they only reduced the amount of opportunities i have to ruin my opponents day, they do not prevent me from doing so. i, like you have reduced my WvW playtime recently alot but not because i feel too weak, but because i get bored, my opponents often dont even try to fight or they constantly try the very same, no improvement. so atm i spent more time working on my fashion wars and helping new players in PvE, but i could aswell just hop into WvW and ruin a poor souls day.

>

> so yeah its just a communication issue with you. you often use the term 'thief' , while exluding in your mind the DE. just be more specific and you will have a good chance that i wont comment on it :3

Lol u are 100% right, it’s not the first time i have made comments regarding thief’s current state forgeting to state in the post I’m referring to core/DD. DE is definitely strong and is effective, but because of its mechanics it’s contantly attacked and nurfs are always what’s being asked for and because those mechanics are heavily reliant on stealth,positioning and burst damage it probably won’t stop because those are anoying mechanics for opponents to fight against,even though they make sense as far as thief profession goes

I think the point that In arenet’s attempts to reign in DE they have also negatively impacted core and DD when it was not needed. Over the last few years thief has received numerous un warranted nurfs that seemed to be in response to the community complaints. Those complaints seem to be from a place of discontent on the thief’s playstyle not so much on specific traits being op,though some were. Theif backstab does to much damage,heart seeker does too much damage,they have too much mobility etc but is theif not soposed to use quick burst to down its opponent? If not than why is thief’s hp/sustain so low? Doesn’t it rely on mobility to avoid damage due to the fact it can’t take much damage? So if the burst and mobility gets nurfed all the while mobility,sustain and damage is buffed on other classes where does that leave thief?so for how glassy thief is thief’s burst damage is fine on core? It’s mobility is far ahead of other classes given its damage and hp? I gues I’m wrong in thinking it isn’t and I won’t waste anymore time posting regarding it. Again wrote this quick so sry for format,typo’s and hopefully it’s somewhat legible lol

I just stated noody’s video was informative and made solid points and feel he put a lot of thought into the video, did not know it was in bad taste as he seemed knowledgeable about the game

I apologize for bad format as I wrote it quick while I was watching tv with the gf and wasn’t really paying attention lol and I also apologize for mentioning MUd in the post,I went back through posts and I had mistaken him for another poster

Really? Cuz soulbeast and mirage can easily catch thieves

Anyway thief core and DD are not in a good spot,and stating the class is as a whole because one spec is viable using permastealth gimmick is not a valid. Most of the high ranking thief players have left and its not because thief is in a good spot, some seemed like they maybe returning but now have ghosted them game again. Anyway I’ve already moved on to diff class for the little time I play these days lol so not really caring to much just wanted to see a once good class come back but not gonna happen. Everyone blames arenet for the games bad state and reading through the forums for all the different professions it’s definitely not all on erenanet lol,they really shouldn’t be listening to any of us lol

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > >

> > > > 2. Not using PvP build system. As long as people can min-max parts and use Ascended, ANet will never be able to balance the mode. I have said for a long time that WvW needs the PvP build system, with the differences of allowing ALL stat combos, runes, and sigils, and that your infusion slots should still give that bonus (so there is a reason in WvW to work toward the Ascended stuff you can get there, and not invalidate all the people that already did it).

> > > >

> > > > Another advantage to the PvP build system to WvW would be lowering the entry bars to new players, as short of Ascended infusions, they would be on the same level as everyone else. Then it's skill, not just being short statted on builds for newer players.

> > >

> > >

> > > Amulet system would imo completely kill WvW, me and basically everyone I know would instantly quit the game if this happened.

> > >

> > > It would fix none of the issues you mention, the highest damage builds already only use 1 statcombo (Berserker) (sometimes with 2-4 pieces of marauder but not necessarily) which you can use with the amulet system. Burst would be even more dominant than it is now.

> > >

> > > Getting ascended armor is already fairly easy, with trinkets being the only annoying parts to get as a new player.> @"Shining One.1635" said:

> > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > Sure! Start with ranger, work your way to other classes as well

> > > > Why start with one? Nerf them all at once.

> > > > I think there needs to be more sacrifice in build choices. You shouldn't be able to have high survivability, high mobility, and high damage all in one build.

> > > >

> > >

> > > But, but, but I thought thief/ranger/mirage in zerker was glass cannon /sarcasm

> > >

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > >

> > > > With regards to thief, was a good class with strong burst,great mobility compensating for its low hp/sustain, cuz its architecture and mechanics to deal damage was annoying to other players that didn’t play thief and didn’t want to take time to learn how to exploit its many weaknesses arenanet tried to appease the community by nurfing its burst, than the complaint was it could reset so mobility was handed out like candy to other professions so now thief hits with mediocre damage,not that far ahead in mobility and has lowest hp/sustain which makes them still good? WhAt? Lol and DE made all this even worse. As long as thief does what it’s soposed to do as a thief it’s playstyles will annoy non thief players,they will cry and it will get further useless over time

> > >

> > > It's still top-tier for smallscale roaming, if it isn't for you then that's a l2p issue. Thief has very few weaknesses, if you play thief in WvW you can basically only die to other thieves, mesmers and rangers. On basically any other class even if you predict the thief basically perfectly the best you can hope for is a draw as no thief ever engages you w/o having at least 2 900+ range teleports ready to disengage. Thief's damage is still top tier, Vault, DJ and Backstab all hit in the 10-30k range depending on the target. Their mobility is still top tier (permanent swiftness, shortbow/rifle, shadowstep, steal etc). Their stealth access is still some of the best in the game.

> > >

> > > > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > > > To get those 10k LB AA, Ranger does need "some skill" to play. You are running a full Zerker Ranger that is glass and will die if the wind blows on it. Not to mention you also have to time everything right to get all the bonuses needed to do that all while hoping your opponent doesn't see you first and dodge, reflect, retal, invuln, evade, or stealth. What you are talking about mostly is luck. Most Rangers get lucky to hit somebody with that much damage. So either that Ranger had some really good luck or you had some really bad luck at the time of that hit. In that case, feelsbadman. Ranger has been the redheaded stepchild of WvW for the longest time. I'm glad that it has a small place now in WvW. Would like to see it's role increase more though to be honest.

> > >

> > > Your defense is that you have 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Your defense is that you have greater mobility than 2/3rd of the classes in WvW.

> > >

> > > Reflect is easily countered by call of the wild which is part of the burst combo, or unstoppable lion.

> > >

> > > Retal does at most like 400/hit, that's nothing by comparison to what the ranger is dishing out (full rapid fire then hits you for 4k while your target is dead)

> > >

> > > Sic' em counters stealth.

> > >

> > > Dodge and Invuln applies as counters to all classes, if people use them against your burst as ranger just reset and try again.

> > >

> > > 1-shot builds/similar are terrible for WvW. They create no interesting encounters, most of the time you either

> > >

> > > +1 and instantly end the fight (ruining their fight w/o any meaningful interaction from either side)

> > >

> > > Hit someone who is semi-afk and kill them before they can react (no meaningful interaction from either side). This also has the added benefit of making roaming way more annoying because if you lose focus for a split second while running around looking for fights (something already annoying) you might just die out of nowhere, great mechanic.

> > >

> > > Fail and reset the fight, somehow the most interesting scenario, yet still incredibly dull for everyone involved as they either play Mesmer/Thief/Ranger and can chase you down and kill you (cause you used CDs, so basically not a real fight) or they don't and therefore can literally do nothing about the scenario.

> >

> > Top tier? Not for me because I think it’s underperforming? Tell that to all the top thief players that are vocal on the forums and on their channels about the bad state of core/DD but gues u must simply be the best lol

>

> People want their main buffed and like saying that the class they play is weaker than it is to appear better, what else's new?

>

> Go do some actual roaming in WvW and you will see the sheer quantity of thieves, certainly that must be in spite of thief being so "weak". But by all means do tell me what you're comparing thief to when you call it weak.

I roam a lot on thief and I do see that it can’t 1v1 any other roaming spec even if the players is less competent example if a ranger or holo dies to a thief while roaming they either got +1 or are bad,mirage can have a tough time if the players not good. yeah DE does use a gimmicky build permastealth to get kills so if u don’t wanna use that than u should just move on? The other specs should lose out on viability because of Deadeyes success with its gimmick build? Watch noody’s Video on thief state called make thief great again. Most thief players share those opinions for a reason. And MUd I see u posting on multiple forums stating thief is in a good spot and or needs more nurfs lol as I’m sure they play slot of thief themselves lol

I’ve spent more time on thief than any of my alts and I can tell u other roam such as ranger and mirage and these days holo do a better job at roaming and are far better duelers aswell,as I play them often aswell. Ranger,mirage make better +1 and decaps,can hold a cap etc thief fails in zergs and don’t say the DD jumping around like a monkey in the middle of Zerg is viable, a true testament to how poor thief is doing is people resort to perma stealth DE to get kills these days and as long as non thief players keep whining there’s gonna be more DE players useing more cheese tactics and the cycle will continue until just no one plays thief at all and that’s healthy for the game lol