Psycoprophet.8107

Rangers numbers are a bit overturned but the class is also so strong due to great class design on arenanets part(surprisingly) ranger has great synergies within its different traitlines and also trait lines that synergies well with other traitlines. That’s how all classes should be designed isn’t it? Some of the numbers need tuning down,that’s all

K> @"Bashi.8902" said:

> The problem with deadeye and why its unfun to fight is the perma stealth. Dodge stealths, the elite removes reveal its rediculous. Its not even the damage output since most of its damage is easily avoidable. If u cant dodge a 250ms quickness dj u better start practicing on your reaction time its really easy to react to when u actually focus. One other thing is the knockdown they can do from stealth for a free dj. That on the other hand is usually pretty hard to stunbreak and dodge or block or invuln in time. Other then that the class is fine. Id still rather have a melee thief spec then deadeye just because ranged classes that can deal tons of damage are just unfun in mmos. Daredevil was the perfect thief spec and they should go back to specs like that. No stupid gimmicks. High risk high reward. Thats my 2 cents at least.

>

> Also buff core and daredevil. #makethiefgreatagain

The problem is poor class design. Why would a gaming company ever introduce full invisibility with little downside to a game that includes pvp proponents? Invisibility should have been a cloak,heavy downside being visible while moving or somthing similar. They made DE so reliant on stealth and high burst that nurfing either will render the class useless and no one would use it so now it’s either delete the spec or totally rebuild it from ground up and don’t see that happening any time soon unfortunately

Truthful answer to OP if u enjoy the thought of backline support dropping fireballs on people heads than ele will work for u in wvw. I understand wanting to use ele due to it being the the class I enjoy most but using it to rain etc will cause u frustrations that out weigh that enjoyment due to lack of tools to compete with other classes when comparing roaming capabilities. If u really want to roam maybe consider a different class as there is a lot of info on these forums that with give u an idea of which classes those are. Holo might be wotyh consideration due to it being a good Roamer/duelist and u can roll the core spec in pve if u like classes that are more complex and that have a lot of skill options

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Second, what no one has mentioned so far and since you have spvped:

> > **The stat caps are way higher in WvW compared to spvp.** Spvp stats are basically on the level of exotic gear while ascended gear goes beyond that. It does make certain builds more or less powerful. It will also put you at a slight disadvantage if you go up against a fully ascended geared character.

> Ascended is just like 10% - the gearstat difference between sPvP and WvW is far greater than that. Last I checked, it was roughly 1000 stat point difference. So imagine sPvP with berserker... Then have 2000 toughness. Or 3000 power. Or 10K extra hp. Thats WvW.

>

> EIther way, the ele is a poor first joiner, yes. Its got potential to fight anything but its not easy. The good ones are rare. If learning, I would recommend smallscaling with a bunker build and gradually move to more damage. Going full dps is just begging to be roflstomped by other roamers.

>

> Oh and ignore psycoprophet. He is clearly bitter about something that isnt really related to running an ele.

No it’s relatable, the issues OP list effect all classes,60% hp loss in single hit/burst etc wont be fixed by reply’s telling him to gear right etc. They may help in a very minimal way but to try and say that an ele geared right and with practice will result in anything other than what the OP is encountering in disingenuous. OP u are playing a mode with a lot of long time players that are skilled yes but also are built to down someone in seconds regardless of ur gear stats using powercrept damage and or mix of cheese mechanics. Once u get used to wvw and how it works it can be fun and frustrating. There are a lot of power crept sustain builds out there as well that just shrug damage off and being able to bait them out and using ur own burst to down them in seconds is ur best bet as well as getting familiar with all the blocks,evade and invulnerability spam that u and others can use. Why is everyone scared to tell it like it is? I’m not bitter at all I have fun on my boonbeast but I don’t avoid or make excuses for the state of the mode and pretend it’s somthing it’s not

> @"Emi.4152" said:

> I'm honestly surprised by thief being in 4th for 1 v 1. at least in my own experience.

>

> Mesmer 20/ 80 ish for the thief if power. 60 / 40 if condi? but only if they feel like sticking around. something like that

> Ranger hardcounters thief. at equal skill levels there is no reason a ranger should ever lose

> Engineer hardcounters thief. or rather, holo hardcounters thief. if the stars align the thief might have a chance?

> Warrior 50 / 50 if skilled vs skilled. low to average skill level matchups would be heavily in the warrior's favor i would think.

> Revenant 70 / 30? ish in the favor of the rev

> Elementalist like 70 / 30 ish in favor of ele. unless its yolo fresh air... then... who knows~

> Guardian hardcounters thief and has done so since the beginning of the game

> Necro depends on skill level... at lower skill levels its really easy for the necro to random down a thief. skilled vs skilled would favor the thief like 20/ 80? but a necro that knows how to 1 v 1 and doesn't panic is super rare so...

>

> yes, a 'good' thief should be able to position perfectly, bait skills out, and out maneuver against 'insert profession here' but against an equally good player they would be able to counter a thief in just as many ways. there are almost no favorable match ups for thief and a bunch of hardcounters running around in wvw. most zerg builds have enough sustain to reach a safe tower unless they're being dumb and decide that, "of course, why shouldn't i be able to beat that roamer on my zerg build?"

>

> the irony is out of all the classes i could find all alone in wvw... i'm most excited to find another thief... since then i'm almost guaranteed to get a bag.

Exactly lol I’m not a good player compared to a lot of the skilled guys out there but my ranger and guard which I roam mostly on love seeing thiefs alone lol they pose a threat rarely only if all their burst somehow hits me and if they make zero mistakes, if they don’t run off that is lol. Like I said I’m not great so I make mistakes often and still down them easy,5 or less hits thier dead lol. Their great Roamer to +1 and to get from A to B but at actual fighting they suck lol hense all the resets and only a highly skilled player that know their opponents class as well as they kno the thief class itself stand a chance in most 1v1 fights. Other than perma stealth DE ganks but again if that burst fails they run allowing us both to reset lol

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

> > > > >

> > > > > Not talking about deadeye.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

> > >

> > > I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

> >

> > If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book

>

> Poor mobility out side of combat sure. Though in combat, some reapers are actually moving to runes of speed, and with an #5 and spectual walk, they are far from slow in combat

While that’s 100% true and a great use of the runes other classes in which most already have far more built in combat mobility have access to those very runes aswell, or can opt to use different runes for a different set of bonuses while maintaining great in combat mobility thus still making reapers in combat mobility less. Using a rune as a band aid to raise a classes in combat mobility to a level where it can compete with other classes points to a problem with the class itself in my eyes. I don’t play reaper much these days cuz feels like ur running around in concrete boots lol and swinging the gs feels realistically weighty which is a disadvantage against classes that can swing them like there styrofoam,withought constantly having to Proc a boon to proc a rune lol

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

> > > > >

> > > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

> > > >

> > > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

> > >

> > > Not talking about deadeye.

> >

> > Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

>

> I don't remember seeing a "good" delaredevil effortlessly beat, let alone not get hit as you say vs a reaper since way, way before pof, way before dash got nerfed, pi got nerfed, AA got nerfed.

If u get coughs by shroud 2 or 4 than DD gets chewed fast but if u use ur mobility to bait them out u can take them down pretty easy as their other skill casts are so slow. But yeah those to skills hit real hard lol but considering their poor mobility that’s fine in my book

Halo,soulbeast, mirage and warrior rule the 1v1’s Eles and thief’s have to out play their opponents unless they are against the few they counter, or players not aware of their surroundings, been ganked by few DE’s but if they fail the burst which is often their dead or they run because they can’t do anything else lol.guards are great 1v1 aswell just don’t have any disengaging capabilities unless dh and even then not good of pressured by out numbered fights that consist of classes with better mobility. People complain about thiefs ability to reset even though their sustain is to low to stay and fight and lets be real here, these days classes like holo,soulbeast mirage list goes on can reset mid fight while laughing, they don’t need to reposition lol

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

> > > >

> > > > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

> > >

> > > Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

> >

> > Not talking about deadeye.

>

> Yeah. And I'm talking about daredevil

A good thief in any spec hard counters necro,unless it gets caught in a scourges aoe Condi spam, which it shouldn’t unless poor positioning

DE is powercrept along with the other classes but a lot of long time thief mains don’t enjoy DE playstyle, relying on stealth and having to constantly stack it to not be at a disadvantage. I don’t see how fighting a DE could be enjoyable for anyone let alone enjoyable to play as,backstab and unloading from stealth can only be fun for so long lol. But what are the option? U roam or join zergs as core or DD and +1 and scout for ur team. If ur a s/d thief or staff DD you are not gonna win any non +1 fights against any competent player that’s using any class other than mesmer or necro unless u are in a small percentage of players where u can win disadvantaged fights thru skill alone which even that begins not to matter against some builds. Thief isn’t alone, Same thing is happening to engineers class. Holo is powercrept and core is left way behind so engineers can’t enjoy the class they’ve invested heavily into if they don’t enjoy holo? Atleast speaking of being effective while enjoying the class I mean lol. It’s easy to say well if u don’t enjoy the one spec that’s been powercrept by arenet than pick a different class but that disregards all the investments they’ve put in said class. I just hope arenet starts looking at classes as a whole and not make balance decisions based off the one spec (newest) they have chose to powercreep ie nurfing classes the community out cries for in ways that don’t deal with the issues causing the communities discontent but instead nurfing other specs in the profession that are already weak making only the newest spec substantially more effective than the others.1v1 fights against any thief spec other than DE would be a lot more fun for other players to fight against lol, same for ele and engi

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

> >

> > Even reaper stands a good chance vs melee theif.

>

> Lul. If you're a good thief, even the best reaper won't even hit you once

Reaper really needs some more defensive options,shroud amounts to little defense these days. Maybe a block and a little buff in mobility even if it’s just insta tele to worm to help relieve pressure

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > > > Most OP 1 vs 1 combat strength rankings as we pass the 50 votes mark.

> > > > >

> > > > > Personally I'm surprised engineer isn't first ranked because holosmith seems to have no hard or even soft counters currently. They also hard counters most thieves and soft counters some Mirage builds.

> > > > >

> > > > > Though the top 3 are very close in scores.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2.5Mesmer

> > > > > 2.6Ranger

> > > > > 3.1Engineer

> > > > > 4.4Thief

> > > > > 5.4Revenant

> > > > > 5.7Warrior

> > > > > 6.0Elementalist

> > > > > 7.2Guardian

> > > > > 8.2Necro

> > > >

> > > > I am glad to see Revenant ended up where it did. You don't see it quite as often as many of the others, but it is deserving of a higher placement. It has all the necessary tools of a good roamer and if played well, is on the winning side of many matches.

> > > >

> > > > By no means do I consider myself a good Revenant (or player in general), but I have been playing it exclusively for a few months now and feel substantially more confident solo than I did with anything else I've played. Even Ranger and Engineer despite their higher placement on the list. With so much in combat mobility, damage and defense negation, the only thing I really fear are condition tanks. And even those can be disposed of pretty quickly with the exception of Mesmers.

> > > >

> > > > If Rev had better cleanse and was easier to 1vX with, I'd go so far as to say it should be placed one higher. But because it has some severe weaknesses, I think it's fair where it is. The rest of the list actually looks quite good too. I'm surprised to see how accurate the community poll has been, honestly.

> > > >

> > >

> > > "Severe" weakness? Yeah, true they have like staff #4 as a Condi clear but when you're running around with 15-20 might stacks in no time at all and can engage people just as well as a thief can to nuke people then yeah, they kinda need to be weak vs condis

> >

> > Conditions are one of those weaknesses, yes. The other is sustained fights. Revenant has a lot of trouble in fights that drag on despite having low cooldowns on many of their skills. It is substantially more difficult to win outnumbered fights with Rev than it is some of the other classes because you simply can not avoid, heal or block every damaging attack. Things like Thief, Mesmer, Warrior, Engineer, etc. can handle outnumbered fights better because they can recover from attacks they can't avoid through various means. Rev really doesn't have that option. It has one long cooldown heal with Glint that has potential to turn a fight in it's favor, but will very rarely do so. Most times, all it does is grant the Rev either enough time to escape or prolong their inevitable death a little longer.

> >

> > Rev is extremely strong 1v1 to the point it should be winning the _majority_ of it's fights, regardless of what it's fighting, if it's played well. But for outnumbered fights, all it has going for it is a lot of evades and teleports. It's just not likely to win if it commits to a fight because it only has one chance to reset with Infuse Light. Every bit of damage it takes after that is going to be very hard to recover from.

>

> Wait, but thievs and power mesmer at least, can't take hits or recover mid fight at all, they have to port away and reset and that's where the qq comes into play about how "op" they are. Fight them in a camp and it's a totally different ball game - assuming they are the classes thats defending the camps.

Not to mention when a thief resets it’s also giving time for the opponents to reset as well

I’m sry I don’t mean to insult anyone as I definitely am not a great player by any means but if u guys are discussing 1v1 in general thief is not nearly in as good a spot as u guys are making it out to be,DE back stab cheese aside. It’s known to be a good Roamer because it’s mobility and through that mobility can +1 the most efficiently next to mirage. Most of the top players who kno the classes in and out even avoid most 1v1 in comps with thief cuz yeah it time can be utilized better doing other thing but also cuz it’s not worth the risk. I donno all I’ve heard over last couple years is how it’s a +1 class and crap at 1v1 so has somthing changed?seems like core and DD get constant nurfs and other classes etc like holo,soulbeast and mirage get power crept higher and higher yet its better 1v1 than holo haha yeah in what universe? DE is a effective 1v1 using a perma stealth gimmick back stab build. it has to utilize a cheese mechanic tho what else is it gonna do? U cough on it and it dies lol. I donno sry for the rant just seems funny hearing people going on about thief as a great 1v1

U guys need to reassess ur tactics if thief is 1v1 u regularly if ur on any class other than necro or mesmer

Haha yeah thief’s are great 1v1,wtf

Oh and it’s all u l2p issue

The fact is wvw Is simply garbage! It has been neglected to a point it will never be fixed. The combination of arenanet’s ridiculous decision to only balance classes towards a pve environment and totally disregard’s the other modes it offers,and the fact that the modes that are disregarded are pvp modes makes the balance issues more predominant. Also it’s the gaming community nature in all pvp games to utilize the cheesiest and easiest way to acquire kills no matter how it will effect others thus making wvw and pvp not enjoyable for new players. You can literally unload on a lot of the players in wvw these days while they just stand there afk waiting to capture a point in wvw and you will literally just see zero’s popping up on enemies head,once it’s captured they will hit u twice and down you and move on like the inconsequential ant u are lol,seems like good balancing and healthy game mechanics to me lol. than these players go on forums complaining about server population being low and wonder why.

I think every answer will be some variation of poor balance,support and lack of incentives

So revs,guards and warrior are below thief in 1v1? Seems right lol

I never kno these days. Other night saw an ally chasing someone down so I joined him, we fought the opponent but ally was downed after couple seconds and I figured Rezing him would be a mistake so I kept fighting opponent. Just before I downed opponent my ally wrote idiot in chat bubble and respawned himself before I could Rez

And not hard to beat down or follow a doylak on any class

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I’m waiting for the thief haters to start chirping that it’s not on top of everyone’s list,claiming it’s still a op 1v1 dueling god that no matter the build can destroy all other builds. Of course their post will end with if u have trouble killing on ur thief ur not a good thief haha

> The poll isnt the ranking of **1v1** however, its a ranking of **roamers**. And placing the thief lower than... well rank 2 since arguably it's the equal of the mesmer... in such a list is an outright lie.

Well it’s mobility is up there with mirage but as far as clearing camp solo or small group or any kind of combat scenario that Ud encounter during roaming id say even guard does those more efficiently if we’re considering all specs of a class,theif just gets there faster lol

It will come!

I’m waiting for the thief haters to start chirping that it’s not on top of everyone’s list,claiming it’s still a op 1v1 dueling god that no matter the build can destroy all other builds. Of course their post will end with if u have trouble killing on ur thief ur not a good thief haha

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> I really don't understand the QQ of thief mains. Well I play necro and QQ a lot as well.

> But I met a thief main, that never complained about thief, even in thief's current state (not speaking about deadeye). When he lost a fight, he told me, which mistake he made.

> But he said, that every class is beatable. Even against very good players, he considered all his matchups in favour of thief

Haha yeah sounds legit