Psycoprophet.8107

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

>

> > 2. Not using PvP build system. As long as people can min-max parts and use Ascended, ANet will never be able to balance the mode. I have said for a long time that WvW needs the PvP build system, with the differences of allowing ALL stat combos, runes, and sigils, and that your infusion slots should still give that bonus (so there is a reason in WvW to work toward the Ascended stuff you can get there, and not invalidate all the people that already did it).

> >

> > Another advantage to the PvP build system to WvW would be lowering the entry bars to new players, as short of Ascended infusions, they would be on the same level as everyone else. Then it's skill, not just being short statted on builds for newer players.

>

>

> Amulet system would imo completely kill WvW, me and basically everyone I know would instantly quit the game if this happened.

>

> It would fix none of the issues you mention, the highest damage builds already only use 1 statcombo (Berserker) (sometimes with 2-4 pieces of marauder but not necessarily) which you can use with the amulet system. Burst would be even more dominant than it is now.

>

> Getting ascended armor is already fairly easy, with trinkets being the only annoying parts to get as a new player.> @"Shining One.1635" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > Sure! Start with ranger, work your way to other classes as well

> > Why start with one? Nerf them all at once.

> > I think there needs to be more sacrifice in build choices. You shouldn't be able to have high survivability, high mobility, and high damage all in one build.

> >

>

> But, but, but I thought thief/ranger/mirage in zerker was glass cannon /sarcasm

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

>

> > With regards to thief, was a good class with strong burst,great mobility compensating for its low hp/sustain, cuz its architecture and mechanics to deal damage was annoying to other players that didn’t play thief and didn’t want to take time to learn how to exploit its many weaknesses arenanet tried to appease the community by nurfing its burst, than the complaint was it could reset so mobility was handed out like candy to other professions so now thief hits with mediocre damage,not that far ahead in mobility and has lowest hp/sustain which makes them still good? WhAt? Lol and DE made all this even worse. As long as thief does what it’s soposed to do as a thief it’s playstyles will annoy non thief players,they will cry and it will get further useless over time

>

> It's still top-tier for smallscale roaming, if it isn't for you then that's a l2p issue. Thief has very few weaknesses, if you play thief in WvW you can basically only die to other thieves, mesmers and rangers. On basically any other class even if you predict the thief basically perfectly the best you can hope for is a draw as no thief ever engages you w/o having at least 2 900+ range teleports ready to disengage. Thief's damage is still top tier, Vault, DJ and Backstab all hit in the 10-30k range depending on the target. Their mobility is still top tier (permanent swiftness, shortbow/rifle, shadowstep, steal etc). Their stealth access is still some of the best in the game.

>

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > To get those 10k LB AA, Ranger does need "some skill" to play. You are running a full Zerker Ranger that is glass and will die if the wind blows on it. Not to mention you also have to time everything right to get all the bonuses needed to do that all while hoping your opponent doesn't see you first and dodge, reflect, retal, invuln, evade, or stealth. What you are talking about mostly is luck. Most Rangers get lucky to hit somebody with that much damage. So either that Ranger had some really good luck or you had some really bad luck at the time of that hit. In that case, feelsbadman. Ranger has been the redheaded stepchild of WvW for the longest time. I'm glad that it has a small place now in WvW. Would like to see it's role increase more though to be honest.

>

> Your defense is that you have 1.5k-2.5k range (depending on terrain). Your defense is that you have greater mobility than 2/3rd of the classes in WvW.

>

> Reflect is easily countered by call of the wild which is part of the burst combo, or unstoppable lion.

>

> Retal does at most like 400/hit, that's nothing by comparison to what the ranger is dishing out (full rapid fire then hits you for 4k while your target is dead)

>

> Sic' em counters stealth.

>

> Dodge and Invuln applies as counters to all classes, if people use them against your burst as ranger just reset and try again.

>

> 1-shot builds/similar are terrible for WvW. They create no interesting encounters, most of the time you either

>

> +1 and instantly end the fight (ruining their fight w/o any meaningful interaction from either side)

>

> Hit someone who is semi-afk and kill them before they can react (no meaningful interaction from either side). This also has the added benefit of making roaming way more annoying because if you lose focus for a split second while running around looking for fights (something already annoying) you might just die out of nowhere, great mechanic.

>

> Fail and reset the fight, somehow the most interesting scenario, yet still incredibly dull for everyone involved as they either play Mesmer/Thief/Ranger and can chase you down and kill you (cause you used CDs, so basically not a real fight) or they don't and therefore can literally do nothing about the scenario.

Top tier? Not for me because I think it’s underperforming? Tell that to all the top thief players that are vocal on the forums and on their channels about the bad state of core/DD but gues u must simply be the best lol

> @"Aodlop.1907" said:

> "t's really annoying for every one to think it's some godlike spec that can never die and one shot."

> "Have you, sir, tried to exhaust all of your options vs DEs before you jump with a post?"

>

> I didn't say it was op or that deadeye were impossible to kill. I said getting killed by one was frustrating and poor design. You don't feel like this idiot deserved his kill, cause he just appears out of nowhere and one shots you during a fight. Even if you do spot him during your fight, you may no longer have the tools to dodge his stupid one shot skill. No class should be able to deal that much damage with ONE spell.

>

> > Or maybe you want a flat power nerf so that zerker ammy and such don't pack as much a punch? Have fun being in the bunker meta from a few years ago where literally no one died in an entire match.

>

> You do enjoy your strawman. I don't want to nerf every glass cannon build, I don't mind set up and one shots if there is a big tell or if there is counter to it.

> What I don't like is an idiotic spec that can one shot you FROM STEALTH. You managed to dodge ? Good, now the thief is at the other side of the map & in stealth he didn't suffer any consequences.

> I don't want all high damage specs nerfed, I don't want a bunker meta, I just want poorly designed specs gutted. It used to be the case in WoW that such specs with braindead easy rotations had next to no damage in PvP (think BM hunters). The same should be applied here.

This is why thief /DE has been ruined over the last few yrs. if thief wasn’t annoying to fit against it wouldn’t be a thief/rouge character lol they have such low hp/sustain that they need to use mobility and burst to take some one out and that’s how it should be considering it’s thief architecture.backstabs,stealth and quick burst are thiefs gimmicks and it has large weaknesses to compensate. We all talk about these powercrept Zerg builds that can one shot being so annoying but thing is is a non zerk build might as well be a zerk when fighting thief lol.thiefs are downed very fast if they get hit hense resetting etc, which again annoys players further.without their burst DE would be low mobility,low hp/sustain and mediocre damage,doesn’t sound like I’d be very effective lol,for the record I hate DE too.just sucks that core and DD are so weak now,mediocre damage cuz burst nurfs,mobility nurfs thru unhindered,no hp/sustain buffs to compensate. It’s like people want thief buried just for being thief like haha

Again thief got nurfed because it’s annoying to its opponents like it is supposed to be lok

That’s the prob don’t revert unhindered because I’d make them obnoxious to catch? That’s how it should be with thief and why they have no hp/sustain no?

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> > When Thieves get to a good spot like Rangers I will stop complaining.

>

> cant you see that people complaining about rangers do see them too strong the same way you think about thieves?

>

> its all just personal opinions as anet never said how good specific builds are supposed to perform at wich role and how. then there is the frequent forms of l2p comments when opinions differ, after all someone with a different opinion must be a worse player. etc. etc.

> but you must not forget that all this balance discussions are just opinions, you dont have to convince other people. if you think some complains are misplaced, try to explain them their options and the weaknesses you have that they can exploit to make sure it is not because of a lack of knowledge. if they despite knowing the game in and out are of a different opinion, then you claiming otherwise wont change it. there are for example players that think every profession should be equally efficient in solo roaming, while i think thief should, was and is the best at it, i dont think i ever will agree with 'em, but we dont have to.

>

So in the games state as we speak u believe thief is superior to ranger,mirage and holo?

With regards to thief, was a good class with strong burst,great mobility compensating for its low hp/sustain, cuz its architecture and mechanics to deal damage was annoying to other players that didn’t play thief and didn’t want to take time to learn how to exploit its many weaknesses arenanet tried to appease the community by nurfing its burst, than the complaint was it could reset so mobility was handed out like candy to other professions so now thief hits with mediocre damage,not that far ahead in mobility and has lowest hp/sustain which makes them still good? WhAt? Lol and DE made all this even worse. As long as thief does what it’s soposed to do as a thief it’s playstyles will annoy non thief players,they will cry and it will get further useless over time

Thief by its nature is anoying to fight against because it’s design which fits the thief architecture. Thief is fast,hard hitting and can’t take a hit,which makes sense for such a class. People that don’t like thief complain about its burst and ability to reset totally disregarding its weaknesses which can be exploited if people’s learned how to instead of getting upset that they just got ganked. People say ther was no counter play which is not true at all. Deadey has taken this even further with how it’s mechanic works,really annoys people haha so people cry nurfs and arenet not knowing or having much experience actually playing thief tries to balance it. Problem now is lowering their burst to stop people from saying their damage is op has left them with low hp/sustain with mediocre damage, than resetting was annoying so they hand out mobility to other classes and give unhindered combatant endurance death if Condy is cleansed so now thief doesn’t hit that hard,isn’t much more mobile than a lot of professions and has the least amount of sustain/hp. Non thief players should try and play thief themselves against people that are proficient in the very classes they play themselves and see how op they really arnt. If u took away all the blocks,invulnerability and lowered say guards or w/e damage and set the hp/armor down to thief level and gave that clas bit better mobility to basically make it a thief how good u think guard or warrior be,not good but because non thief players hate how the class does it’s damage they want it gutted

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Trajan.4953" said:

> > Because no matter how much Rangers and thieves cry and moan that their class is viable it remains garbage, always has been garbage and will never be anything but garbage

>

> Aren't the targets of rangers the ones who normally end up crying and moaning?

Never woulda thought the day would come that this is true

This just in,reapers damage reduction applies to fall damage. Reapers fine for roaming confirmed haha

I find staff Cs/da/dd fun with sb off hand or cs/trick/dd fun all other weapons seem to take too long to kill stuff for my liking in pve even with full zerk and scholars lol. DD is really fun though and has cool skill animations

Especially pvp modes

Some games can rely on their community and is ahead because of it,warframe kinda like that but I think Arenanet needs to learn how to proper balance their own game and unfortunately ignore most of its community, not saying the whole community is the problem but this one in particular seems to not care as much for the game to be balanced as a whole but instead just want their class to over performing and the others gutted as if that will make the game more fun for them lol

thief being in the state it’s in currently and people in the community still crying for nurfs hoping for it to be rendered useless for whatever vendetta they have against the class with little regards for the players that actually enjoy the class is pretty disappointing but not surprising in any way, people are so transparent and petty lol the sad thing is we all kno most of our fellow players are cry for thief nurfs out of ignorance to how the class works and selfishly just want it to not challenge them or it’s because they got their weak pride hurt being ganked by one a few times and hurt their ego,how dare this class be able to compete with mine. I kno this sounds silly but what’s more silly is there’s a lot of truth to it

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > No, we don't need any buffs. There is nothing to be given to any weaponset or ability that won't make some build immediately overtuned. What really needs to happen is other professions need to have their damage and/or defenses toned down.

> > >

> > > Don't think that reverting AA nerfs of Dagger and Sword would make DD and Core anywhere near overtuned.

> > > It would put D/P to "quite useless" tier from its current "mostly useless", because in current meta, it just is, it is nowhere near its great usefulness of before

> > > As of S/D Core it would put it from it's "quite useless" to "meh" because, again, S/D thiefs capabilities are EXTREMELY non impactful in current meta.

> >

> > What? Core S/D is strong, almost *too* strong for how little effort it takes to play. D/P Daredevil is still quite powerful as well, unless you're up against an opponent in something like full Trailblazers or a Radiance Guardian in valk and cavaliers...

>

> It's my usual case of forgetting to mention *in sPvP.

>

> S/D is strong within Thief profession as there is only choice of D/P and DE left to play.

>

> S/D in PvP was good for boonstrip and also because it could 1v1 unlike D/P, however S/D will still get beaten by every profession in direct fight, except Mesmer (doesn't apply for Mirage) and since boons are still being farted so much it became "non-impactful", to a point that S/D is simply less useful than any single other meta build, sometimes even S/D weaver is better with its staling on Node.

>

> As for D/P in PvP, the boons are again the issue, it's burst is lower than the burst of several other professions which is the one out of two reasons for its existence, but since S/D thief can do the other thing (decap) in the very same way and also since this meta is an age of side noders such as Boonbeast, SB, Weavers or good Holos it's became practically useless.

This man gets it

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Menyus.4610" said:

> > > > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > > The zerker staff ele guy was trolling guys

> > > >

> > > > atleast now i know why anet nerf us, cos the avg player IQ is around -5

> > >

> > > but that leads to the issue that you can hardly tell who is trolling and who isnt in these forums.

> >

> > On the plus side, it makes for funny salty whispers when they accuse you of abusing backstab when you're not running dagger xD

>

> You totally Backstabbed me with your P/P SB Thief, I seent it!!’

It was strapped to his ankle and damage was increased by ankle shot damage,so op!

I give it up to chrono’s though they are deff usually there to help with boons and portal etc, whenever I’ve tried to mess around with the spec it becomes clear fast when I find a group that I don’t kno enough about the spec to give the group the suport they want haha

Hazy daisy and I can’t be only ones haha boonbeast and hammer rev are other fun wvw builds,I have good results with mirage in roaming but don’t have enough experience with them to help in zergs at any capacity lol

But atleast someone found thief fun lol we gotta have more representation here no? Lol

> @"HazyDaisy.4107" said:

> Last week I killed a ranger with a valk/maurader Daredevil I have no idea how to play, that was fun.

Lol u lucked out hard finding the worst ranger ever than,no offence to the ranger,or ur trolling lol

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> THIEFS are not OP. STEALTH is OP. I am fine with Thief if they rework their play style to not involve Stealth. I get that Thieves are dodgy/evady characters and can accept that better than I can completely invisible kill from out of nowhere. As I said, there is just absolutely no counter play to that. Just BOOM! Dead! You never see it coming and you never see it leaving either. Not to mention that you can't even interrupt the stomp because they are stealthed as well! How do you not see someone standing on top of you and jumping in the air to punch you in the face!? Stealth is absurd in this game.

I agree with stealth being op, it woulda made more sense if they were gonna give class the duration in stealth it has than stealth shoulda been like the predator style where when u move ur viseable if the opponents are paying attention like a water like effect,and when ur still it’s hard to notice

I don’t understand people, with all the insane power creep in mobility,and sustain/healing skills with damage ontop they still complain about a class that has barely more mobility than most classes now,less damage and half the hp and sustain, man I get DE is annoying and cheesy but cmon

People need to let go of the idea of the damage core used to do lol it needs to head back in that direction

Full zerk s/d doesn’t even compare to the damage sustain builds do these days lol hense the pigeon hold into +1 role. Have to use staff in high level pve cuz even in pve takes forever to chop at enemies hps lol and I play mix of zerk/mauraders with scholar lol

S/d is strong in +1 but any class will out sustain and out damege it with player of equal skill,if ur dying to a s/d core or d/p thief these days ur either engaged in a fight already or u got outplayed hard and I mean they’ve played perfect and I’ve made some significant mistakes

I think with wvw zergs players chose most effective means over most fun and that ok it’s their choice it’s just unfortunate if a player is left out because he chose the fun route over effectiveness tho all classes can help atleast a little in some areas of a Zerg. It’s understandable why they’d want their zergs full of the most effective classes though so it’s tough call both sides are right. A lot of classes can help but arnt considered good cuz their not the meta most effective ones. If I’m playing a non meta class I just follow the Zerg and help any way I can, I won’t turn the battle ever lol but I get some TY from revives or helping in any outer +1’s good enough for me lol