Psycoprophet.8107

> @"hatsamu.4327" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

>

>

> Different skills, different job, differently viewed by society. . . sounds like in gaming that would be a profession change/reroll.

>

> I mean, thank you for the history lesson, but I don't think you should get too carried away with using "this is how it was in historical Japan" as a rule or justification. Thief has elements of ninja, sure (because it has elements of Assassin btw), but you shouldn't try to conform the history and culture of Tyria to Earth's.

>

> I think regardless if it's historically accurate or romanticized, when people pick classes they're looking forward to playing certain themes. And the GW2 description of the Warrior is the weapons master of the battlefield.

>

>

Lol true enough. I realize tyria isn't the same as reality was just stating samurai would fit thief as much as warrior and reasons why. Thing is with warrior weapon master foes as far as using lots of weapons for sure,unfortunately non of the war current skill sets are in any way stylized or technique wise like samurai. I go as far to say other than the tele thief sword and sb as well as staff thematically fit more than any warrior skills.

Each there own tho.

Spbr is in a ok ish spot, not really a good spot. Zerk and core are gbage unless ur very skilled and ur opponent are potatoes.

Honestly I hear u and cant blame u for feeling that way as often pvp in gw2 seems like ur playing ping pong and ur the ball.

The way cc,stability and stunbreaks work actually works well in a 1v1 scenario. The problem occurs when 3 or 4 other cc classes start targeting u than ur stability and stunbreaks will do very little. I've heard it before regarding diminishing returns on a player that has just been cc chained as being a way to help elileviate this and I'm not sure how that would work but is a thought.

Lol man ninja has been miss represented by pop culture. A lot of what people clearly think a ninja was is in fact a made up romanticizstion.

Again samurai developed ninjutsu and samurai taught that ninjutsu to their young as a means of adapting to different war fare. Every documented ninja I history was a decorated samurai. Leader of the iga clan was a decorated samurai given that role during to his status. A ninja is a samurai and a samurai is a ninja it just depends on the role they were chosen for. Ninjas were taught the same way as samurai but with additional knowledge and skill of ninjutsu, at least at the beginning of ninjutsu as there a high probability commoners would have joined the clans at later stages of the clans history as work was scarce.

Also this noble code of the samurai has been misrepresented by pop culture as well. Is it noble to burn down a house full of innocent children? Cuz if a samurai lord demanded that of a samurai it was a dishonorable act to disobey the lord and u can guess what actually happened in real history.

Most historically accurate depictions of samurai all have one thing In common and that is samurai rarely used their swords outside of training and as a status piece and further later on in the life of samurai flint lock rifles were very popular with samurai, not really what ud think when thinking of honorable combat lol.

Honestly as far as class specializations any class resembling a ninja would in fact be a closer association with samurai than any other class archetype unless that class was a tailored samurai class.

Almost all classes and fighters are considered warriors even a battle mage is a type of warrior just as a knight is as well so thinking a generalistic warrior class automatically relates to samurai is a bit off imo.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > > > > What about a ninja, with gs

> > > >

> > > > You clearly don't care about anything else than the thief getting a greatsword as it's weapon for it's next e-spec, right?

> > > > Personally I don't think that the thief is an especially good fit for weapon like hammer or greatsword. It's just not a 'logical' flavor. Out of all the weapon thief don't have yet, I think mace would fit well "bandit/scoundrel" theme and torch with a "graverobber/burglar" theme. As for a "ninja" or more specifically a magical theme (Assassins in GW1 use a lot of shadow magic after all), scepter and focus seem way more fitting than greatsword can be.

> > >

> > > I am just a pvp player, and would love to see some kinda duelist spec with high skill cap, and a samurai/ninja on thief with greatsword sounds Perfectly for me

> >

> > I have a hard time understanding why the thief would need another duellist spec and how gs would be fit for such a thing. Don't get me wrong but the core thief is mostly a duellist, DD is also mostly a duellist and DE hardly manage to look like a range team support, being mostly used as a duellist. And GS don't scream high skill cap, no, if anything, every thief weapon skillset are bound to be low skill cap due to the fact that they depend on initiative.

> >

> > If anything, the thief need to work better in team and be sturdier instead of ellusive. So less "duellist" stuff can only be better for it.

> >

> > Remember that a weapon is only flavor, what matter in an elite spec is how it's main mechanisms are bent and the traits. DD is not defined by it's staff, it's define by it's peculiar dodges and DE isn't defined by it's rifle but by the mark it's effects on stealth attack. Staff and riffle only really give some flavor to the e-specs.

> >

> > Now, when you say samourai or ninja, what do you imagine that would define it? A greatsword? If I equipe dagger/pistol and shortbow, am I playing the samourai or the ninja? Yes? No? Maybe? What in the gameplay of the samourai/ninja call to the greatsword? When I think about a samourai, I picture a man in an antique red heavy armor and a helmet with an steely mask, nothing close to a thief. When I think about a ninja, I picture something more agile playing with magic, sure it fit the thief but the greatsword, no.

>

> If they really go the shadow magic route, then it shouldn't be a ninja archetype. Like I explained, thief already has a ninja inspired elite spec. I know, ninja are popular, I love them, too. But there is really no need for the thief to get 2 elite specs that fill this ninja archetype.

I agree with this ^ thief is basically a ninja wrongly named as thief. Sure it has steal but every single trait and utility are named and function after pop culture ninja's.

Making ninja a new spec wouldn't enough to distinguish it.

I think samurai would fit thief if they wanted to change things up with the new specs.

When I visited the iga museum there were old ninja armors on display that looked exactly like samurai armor but lighter, they said they could roll them up and stash if needed but they were behind glass so couldn't test em lol.

A ninja is literally a samurai trained in ninjitsu on top of their normal training. Obviously during its later periods its guessed non samurai family members probably joined the camps as work was scarce.

The ninja sword isnt actually historicaly proven, again probable changes made by pop culture. Ninjas most common sword was the standard katana aka samurai sword as they were readily available and a common site.

Shuriken and caltrops were invented by samuria.

Samurai where honorable to their lord and family but dishonorable to anyone the lord wishes as I'd bring dishonor to not do so.

Considering in reality samurai invented ninjitsu, taught it and shared most weapons with ninja I'd say there really isnt a closer fit to a samaria spec then a class that is literally all ready a ninja lol

Warrior would work to cuz the armor and belindas skin and lb but how samurai are war skills on either, guess gs5.

Both would be cool. I see a lot of off hand sword as well, be cool to.

Regardless of the games description of thief its clear thief is the rogue of the game and without even regarding that it's clear from thiefs design it was intended to be high mobility,evasive with high burst low hp/armor. It needs its burst back or classes need thier sustain lowered and on top the sustain classes need their bursts lowered even further.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol gl. I agree with u but haha yeah gl as it makes more sense to the team at anet to spam condis brainlessly with power burst like tics than it does for slow telegraphed hammer skills to do cc and some damage so wouldn't expect much from them.

>

> They already said not all cc will be 0.01, some will get damage buffs.

Lol true but games pvp is on life support as is and with their time frames I donno lol

Lmao yes let's just argue that thief fine because its weak asf but possible to down someone on thief regardless. Good arguement and great basis for balance lol.

I'm done as its pointless to argue at this point.

No it's not a buff thief at all. What it is is legitimate complaints about the direction thief has gone not through any type of meaningful thought but through bad nerfs and changes game wide. I get that stealth feels unfair,annoying and cheesy but thief or assassin's are supposed to use unfair type skills. I am totally fine with anet giving classes more ways to counter thief bursts or making it more difficult to get the burst off as long as the burst when successful is actually effective or worth the set up as it is not right now. Right now on a power DD build my 3k sometimes 5k HS hits reliably more harder than the 3k-5k backstabs without all the set up. Right now non bursty classes have a higher burst on many rotations than thief does and that's very messed up.

Thief is supposed to be a high evasive mobile BURST spec but it no longer has viable bursts which is my only issue. I am not saying thief should be a duelist 1v1ing and winning sustained fights I'm saying if thief gets a jump on someone and gets thier burst rotations off it should be among the highest burst in the game not lowest lmao, this team man will ruin this game. It's fine if thiefs burst and follow up fail and the thief has to disengage but its burst should be high enough for its follow up to down classes or its left to just avoid fights and just decap and if so that is a fail in balance as even the most mobile class should not just be viable at running. Thief should be a get in and get out or die class but the get in part needs to be impactful and it is not now as it is. Pretty pathetic.

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

> > > >

> > > > Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

> > > >

> > > > All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

> > >

> > > Thief, just like mesmer, is a class that will always get hate, even if they are statistically underpowered.

> > >

> > > Because these classes are built around mechanics which are usually considered "unfun" to play against by other players. Instant mobility (blinks), denying the enemy hitting you through evades, going into stealth, which gives some players the an "unfair" feeling since the thief has more information about the fight that is going on than them. Mesmer also has the clones which are cluttering the screen and makes it a "guessing game" for inattentive players.

> > >

> > > Accept it, it doesn't matter if these classes are weak or not. As long as they are using these mechanics, people will complain.

> >

> > This 100%^

>

> Thieves can do 0 damage but still be played and still be used because of their entire kit.

>

> In PvP, in an ideal setting, a Thief won't even fight : they just run laps around the map and decap stuff and let their team group up and roflstomp anyone they come across contesting or capping.

>

> In WvW, they will just run around, hide in keeps, hide in towers, portal people in, shortbow 5 spam away, stealth endlessly.

>

> Are they actually killing anyone? No.

> But they win by default just because of their kit being so good at moving around.

>

> Maybe one day there will be a by-kill-scoring sort of competitive mode where Thief will shine less when groups of players try to fight, because while Thief can +1 well, it just takes a moment of focus fire to bring them down and make them entirely useless.

Yeah but that's not a playstyle that should be forced on any class, to not fight that's boring for most. Thief has pic of pop culture ninjas throughout its traits and uses thier tools ie caltrops,paper smoke bombs etc, thief may be called thief but its tool,skills and playstyle mirror assassin and to do the damage it does is pathetic. Anets team listens far to much to a playerbase instead of realizing that that class archetype will get nerf cries even when weak asf.

Samurai would kinda fit both really. Warrior or thief.

Thiefs traits picture pop culture ninjas, use pop culture ninja tools that were invented by samurai ie caltrops and paper smoke bombs.

Ninjutsu was developed by samurai famalies with help of chinese commanders that fled to japan and taught from the young age to select family members chosen for certain tasks. Actually every documented ninja in history was a decorated samurai first.

The whole samurai vs ninja is more samurai vs samurai as they each taught and hired their own ninja clans to fight their opposition and when that ended ninjas fought each other to compete for work.

I'd say u could make samurai fit either war or thief.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.

> > The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.

> > Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

>

> thief is not an assassin

Haha sure it isnt and almost all its traits don't picture pop culture ninjas nor do most of thiefs utilities copy pop culture ninja tools like poison daggers, smoke screen/blinding powder aka paper smoke bomb, caltrops etc etc. Lastly their not stealthy like a assassin either right?

Assassin signet,hidden killer lol assassin nope.

If they give thief a assassin spec how different could it be?

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak ass backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.

The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.

Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > Even then, daggers autoattacks hit for pretty pathetic amounts of damage.

> >

> > Thief right now really is pathetic...and people still complain about it? These players must really be kittens.

> >

> > All i do is auto-attack around me on my reaper...and thief dies while their in stealth in a few seconds, and denies them their damage...really its super sad what happened to them and they should just DELETE the forums to stop this nonsense.

>

> Thief, just like mesmer, is a class that will always get hate, even if they are statistically underpowered.

>

> Because these classes are built around mechanics which are usually considered "unfun" to play against by other players. Instant mobility (blinks), denying the enemy hitting you through evades, going into stealth, which gives some players the an "unfair" feeling since the thief has more information about the fight that is going on than them. Mesmer also has the clones which are cluttering the screen and makes it a "guessing game" for inattentive players.

>

> Accept it, it doesn't matter if these classes are weak or not. As long as they are using these mechanics, people will complain.

This 100%^

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> I'm the announcement of the last balance patch you said the 0.01 cc coefficient is maybe not on all skills permanently.

> I would suggest some of them, if someone have some skills to suggest gogo.

>

> - actually every Hammer skill on warrior should do dmg, it would give the Hammer Warrior some feel of power.

> - Prime light beam

Lol gl. I agree with u but haha yeah gl as it makes more sense to the team at anet to spam condis brainlessly with power burst like tics than it does for slow telegraphed hammer skills to do cc and some damage so wouldn't expect much from them.

Future? U serious haha seriously cmon the pops getting lower and lower. Maybe next expac will bring back some players and maybe some new blood but for now it's pretty much just few handfuls of players. Look at these forums as there's literally the same maybe 15 people posting threads lol.

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > This is what happens when u nerf hammer damage but all while not considering certain class mechanics ie shroud or classes access to defensive skills ie guards. With those left un touched their survivability to damage ratio is way out of balance.

> > Its certainly telling of something that most matches are full of guards/fb/dh, necro and revs, I mean to an obvious extent lol.

>

> I think hammer wasn't nerfed enough, it needs the CC to be halved on top of the damage reduction to bring it in line.

> Warrior is still too strong.

Yes true enough warrior hammer still to strong. Auto's and 1 skill do damage and rest cc with no damage lol. We should definitely remove some cc so hammer does no damage or cc----- gw2 community mentality in a nutshell. Ur a mesmer main right? Seems bout right.

Then said community complain that pvp in the game sucks and is bleeding players to a point match making doesn't even function properly lol.

Well played...well played, on to the next vid lol

> @"SWI.4127" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Drop dps of all aoe by 50%. They should be there to support melee or single target spells. No class should be able to brainlessly spam a bunch down at their feet and actually not only out pace most classes ability to clear but also doing significant damage. In pve it's fine but in pvp it's so bad lol. Just another carry mechanic in this game. The devs said dh have one of the highest win rates even in plat but have u seen a dh that does more than drop traps on node and stand there and spam? Lol yet why not cuz its effective. There's other examples as well. The devs need to look at ways to reward skilled play and not promote carry brain dead condi aoe spamming as they are now. Then they need to ignore complaints about builds and classes that are effective but need skill to play instead of nerfing them to either being brain dead or not effective.

>

> If someone is spamming all their AoEs at their feet then don't walk into them. Seems pretty obvious. Many groups in this game just try to hold W though and get punished. As it should be. How do you propose that anyone ever properly kill or even pressure a larger group in this game without AoE?

I think the point is it's not just at their feet is it as it's also ranged aoe's? Look at wvw it's a red circle spam fest and is thee most effective type of play. If u enjoy that playstyle great but until that changes don't expect wvw to ever increase in popularity and expect it to continue on it current track being in a consistent decrease in population:)

> @"Smoosh.2718" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I donno seeing a heavy armored warrior with a spear fits a warrior 1000% more than a pistol. Imagine a pistol/pistol, pistol/shield or pistol sword war. No thanks thief, engi and mes has that covered.

>

> what does it matter if it 'fits' better, what does a spear / staff bring?

>

> Else we might as well bring up the factor that greatsword does not fit necromancer, or Axe on a guardian/mesmer.

>

> Think logically, the weapon must bring something new and something the warrior is missing.

>

> Admitivly what comes to my mind instantly for heavy armour and pistol is : Space Marines, The Bounty Hunter (Star Wars) and the general 'modern day soldier'.

Yeah and does a warrior space marine fit gw2 world or a heavy armored spear wielding warrior? Also a spear can bring whatever anet wants it to just by what skills on the weapon do. I mean on skill on spear could be a ranged throw, another couple melee and one sustain skill making it a versitile frontline weapon.

Each their own obviously tho.

I donno seeing a heavy armored warrior with a spear fits a warrior 1000% more than a pistol. Imagine a pistol/pistol, pistol/shield or pistol sword war. No thanks thief, engi and mes has that covered.

This is what happens when u nerf hammer damage but all while not considering certain class mechanics ie shroud or classes access to defensive skills ie guards. With those left un touched their survivability to damage ratio is way out of balance.

Its certainly telling of something that most matches are full of guards/fb/dh, necro and revs, I mean to an obvious extent lol.

No! Condi is overperforming therefore brainless condi aoe spam is making certain classes OP but I think nerfs are thankfully in the works to tone them down.

Drop dps of all aoe by 50%. They should be there to support melee or single target spells. No class should be able to brainlessly spam a bunch down at their feet and actually not only out pace most classes ability to clear but also doing significant damage. In pve it's fine but in pvp it's so bad lol. Just another carry mechanic in this game. The devs said dh have one of the highest win rates even in plat but have u seen a dh that does more than drop traps on node and stand there and spam? Lol yet why not cuz its effective. There's other examples as well. The devs need to look at ways to reward skilled play and not promote carry brain dead condi aoe spamming as they are now. Then they need to ignore complaints about builds and classes that are effective but need skill to play instead of nerfing them to either being brain dead or not effective.

> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Captain Kuro.8937" said:

> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > > Thief is the worst 1v1 class in the game or close to it lmao. Just because u need to improve ur ability to fight them does not make them op.

> > > > > > This is exactly why u shouldn't post nerf threads on classes just because u find them hard to fight. If ur having issues vs a thief in a 1v1 it's because the thief was a better player and u got out skilled. Sry it sucks to accept that but I can assure u thief is no where near op in 1v1's.

> > > > > > No offense but u come off as a new player who faught a better player on thief and are salty lol.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe try to copy some tactics , from this guy if you loose most of your 1v1 ?

> > > > > There is room for improvements

> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gE3AS-kx9w

> > > >

> > > > Lmao u serious? I mained thief for yrs and I destroy almost thieves I 1v1 on any of my other toons, sure I get jumped sometimes when they +1 me but in 1v1 lmao if u lose to a thief they simply are better than u.

> > >

> > > Maybe you prety bad at Thief 5 years now ?

> > >

> > > I will not be Caith how matter i try , even for 5 years playing . Maybe you got admit you too someday :P

> >

> > Admit what? And for 5 yrs thief has been a decapper +1 why again? I can get kills 1v1 on my thief just fine but I can defenitly tell their not a class that's superior in 1v1's

> > Maybe learn the game? I donno.

>

> Other class is superior // Thief cant 1v1

> Maybe learn the game? I donno.

Yeah whatever that is soposed to mean, if u think thief is a top tier 1v1 class I really can't help u sry.