Psycoprophet.8107

Necro and guards. I hate how guards can get burns ticking as high as burst skills damage wise and with power lvs dropped their sustain to burst with burns are way overturned. Necro I don't find overperforming except for the fact anet didn't make tweaks to their death shroud

regeneration state in accordance to the drop in power lvs leaving them far to tanky.

Classes that have access to condi's specifically a lot of access to burning are able to build with sustain stats and achieve burst like spikes with the condi's ie burning.

Over all though the sustain of a handful of classes were not tweaked for the power lv drop leaving them to tanky, these are any class that was high sustain before and even more so if have access to shroud or barriers etc. Almost every match has 2 burn guards/dh, necrosis, and usually a condi core ranger or weaver that spikes high burns and for a reason so with that said I think I find dying to any of these new fotm specs that are being spammed right now to be the most annoying more so cuz I just don't get why people don't stick to the classes they like and have to bandwagon to what they hear is OP and of the most cheese lol.

> @"pninak.1069" said:

> still kitten, because I pointed out in a different topic that thief abuse weapon stow midcombat leading to teleportations with dagger pistol 3 without reveal. ofc he claims they are "fixed". best deal for anet is to simply ban weapon stowing in combat. I mean it is the same deal for everyone. you can't say smth against that . . . unless you don't want to play by the rules. then finally anet would be able to do a clear approach. if it wasn't for glitchabuse I wouldn't talk about this here.

>

> My problem with thief is mostly that it has 0 cds and is pretty much able to do what mesmer is able to pull off in gw1. thief and mesmer switched places.

I mean that's kinda dumbing the game down but I wouldnt argue, dont think I've I've ever intentionally weapon stowed mid combat and as far as I knew the thief isnt even a class that benefit very much from it these days,revs etc do as far as I know tho but still kinda adds to the skill cieling no?

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > How u gonna nerf mesmer more? Theyve lost a bar of endurance which is huge and though I agree the class is still very evasive there's a line to how far u can punish mesmer for its design before u may as well just delete it. What's next? Now mesmer only gets one weapon or maybe weapon sigils now have no effect on their weapons,maybe increase their weapon swaps to 15 secs lol. I may not be a huge mesmer fan as I know most mesmer players dislike me which I'm more than on with but in this version of the game and the state of balance were in no one can honestly call mesmer OP unless its 100% bias dislike for the class.

>

> I can't believe what I'm reading.

> Yo guys, I think we just made a blind man see!

I've never wanted mesmer nerfed to the ground, problem I have with mesmer are its payer representatives always popping in other class discussions no matter who it is but especially thieves as their its counter and acting like regardless of the state of the class it's not ok for players to want or discuss improvements on them,as if every class but mesmer is always in a balanced or op state no matter the actual case. There thee most often to spam post regarding thief and everything they can think of under the sun to claim is OP lol even of it's clearly not. Myself I have zero issues with any player mesmer or not wanting improvement to their class as that means if proper things were improved more classes and builds would be viable and fun to use and which means hopefully more people playing and playing a more variety of classes, unlike the necro and guard spamming we have now as there's literally 2 on every team and for a reason.

I don't want mesmer or any class nerfed to the ground and infact would rather even mesmer players enjoy there class as I want for all players and their class. I do think mesmer needed toned down but maybe losing a dodge was heavy handed but their not OP by any stretch but now maybe anet will give chrono some love so we see more of them in pvp eventually to as it seems like condi mirage or one shot mesmer is only thing I see and again not even close to op considering how burning builds are spiking or how necro's are sustaining hense my first reply, why make a mesmer op thread or nerf thread when theirs clear outliers right now which everyone knows who they are cuz again,2 on every team every match lol

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> > > >

> > > > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

> > >

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> > > >

> > > > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

> > >

> > > You can go ~7,5k backstab ez on Heavy. 6k HS (depending on HP), ~600 autos. So yeah thieves' damage is not as low as thieves claim to be.

> >

> > Yeah I've got 7 and 6k on heavy golem on a build forgoing everything useful but damage,so what? That's still not high burst compared to the other bursts out there by tanker classes for one and for 2 they don't have to sacrifice everything for that damage which considering were talking about a low sustain burst class that is in fact pathetic so.

> > Also I don't kno how anyone could claim mesmers OP when there 2x guards , necro/reapers with a sprinkle of condi core rangers on every team every match, why do u guys think that is? Did those two classes get some really fun new skills and animations since last patch? Lol

> > U hear about how broken condi rev is but see it far less than those other two,is it cuz revs harder to play hmmmm.

> > Is this cmc guy blind or does he not play pvp often? I kno he mentioned dh having one of the highest win rates even in plat but can he not see the massive influx of guards and necro's? I mean doesnt take a genius to figure out why and if he hasn't is this who anet wants in charge of numbers lol gl anet.

>

> That's how it should be.

> If you spec defensive traitlines on mesmer, a full burst deals ~9k on light armor.

>

> Its not that thief damage is low, is that some professions need to be toned down a lot so the same logic is applied, want good damage? Go full offensive. Want survival? Go full defensive.

Ok i agree 100% than apply that to other classes. As I said I dont want thiefs dps buffed I want tanker classes bursts lowered as well as their insane sustain to allow the thief to do its job with the numbers it has now.

How u gonna nerf mesmer more? Theyve lost a bar of endurance which is huge and though I agree the class is still very evasive there's a line to how far u can punish mesmer for its design before u may as well just delete it. What's next? Now mesmer only gets one weapon or maybe weapon sigils now have no effect on their weapons,maybe increase their weapon swaps to 15 secs lol. I may not be a huge mesmer fan as I know most mesmer players dislike me which I'm more than on with but in this version of the game and the state of balance were in no one can honestly call mesmer OP unless its 100% bias dislike for the class.

Lmao omg I never watched video because I kno full well that thief's bursts are pitiful at the momment but doing off a vid from 2018 wtf? Back then I used to get 11k sometime 13k backstab on builds not just built for power. Thief these days can't one shot $hit, tho a de can rifle burst a potato pretty fast.

As I said anyone can go try a thief power build in the mists. Try dp and see how pitiful ur autos and all ur skills are exept for HS which is dependent on enemies having low health and a backstab that requires a set up.

Go into pvp and do a power burst 5-6k backstab on a burn guard or necro/reaper and see how they just shrug it off like it's nothing, then proceed to hit it 30 times with autos and few HS while it eats it all and threads before u can down it all while hitting u like a ton of bricks lol or get burns on u that tic as much as ur backstabs are that if not cleared do over 20k.

I can kill a necro on thief but the length it takes is unreal and u have to badly outplay them as well as they have to be some what not great on the class or it's a draw or they'll force u to run cuz u cant sustain their damage. I wish all these players would actually play the class instead of going off out dated videos or situations where any class would down them in a 2v1 and stop spreading misinformation. I think that's alot of the reason why games in state it is. Like I've said every match now has 2 necrosis and guards per side for a reason and they burst like the sarn burst class does and the burst classes dont have the burst anymore to down them fast even when outplaying the other class which is very poor balance.

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> >

> > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> >

> > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

>

> You can go ~7,5k backstab ez on Heavy. 6k HS (depending on HP), ~600 autos. So yeah thieves' damage is not as low as thieves claim to be.

Yeah I've got 7 and 6k on heavy golem on a build forgoing everything useful but damage,so what? That's still not high burst compared to the other bursts out there by tanker classes for one and for 2 they don't have to sacrifice everything for that damage which considering were talking about a low sustain burst class that is in fact pathetic so.

Also I don't kno how anyone could claim mesmers OP when there 2x guards , necro/reapers with a sprinkle of condi core rangers on every team every match, why do u guys think that is? Did those two classes get some really fun new skills and animations since last patch? Lol

U hear about how broken condi rev is but see it far less than those other two,is it cuz revs harder to play hmmmm.

Is this cmc guy blind or does he not play pvp often? I kno he mentioned dh having one of the highest win rates even in plat but can he not see the massive influx of guards and necro's? I mean doesnt take a genius to figure out why and if he hasn't is this who anet wants in charge of numbers lol gl anet.

Does this game have a on hr anymore?

Go build one urself full power, it's easy in the mists ur backstabb is 5k on heavy golem, no where near one shot anymore

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Says a broken reaper player lmao

>

> Reaper's weak right now. Literally nobody needs to stand in anything it does except guard/FB, and they have access to enough blocks and cc to mitigate shroud whenever it's up.

>

LMAO reapers weak hahaha with the damage cuts shroud in way overperforming esp on core necro and reaper shroud dps is still overperforming compared to most. Right now as it stands core necro and burn guards are literally thee most spammed spec, most matches in last few weeks have 2 of each in each match. Theres a reason why dh/guards and necro have seen a huge increase in playtime and dh have one of highest win rates even in plat said cmc.

May as well call this gbage pvp guard&necro wars 2.

> @"James.1065" said:

> I think warrior is are in a great spot at the moment and the shining example of perfect balance.

>

> The problem is that they got so used to being god mode with heavy damage CC skills and good defence and mobility. Unfortunately for them, now that they are in the same boat as other professions it feels broken to them cause they must work for their kills.

Says a broken reaper player lmao

Well when u have devs like these that think the state of burns,sustain etc are ok and that it's fun for players to see necro's and burn builds like guards spammed every single match it's no surprise. The pvp in this game is gonna fall even faster with this cmc savior dev lmao

Any time I down a necro,ranger etc on thief I have to severely outplay and hit the reaper 100x more than it does me and sometimes no matter what cant get their hp down enough. I often how trash players have to be to still complain about a class that has to hit them continually for over a min to down them if there garbage enough not to use their sustain skills. And when u do 1v1 a necro or ranger as examples u hit them 30 times while evading their hits and they get a cc off and stun u and hit u twice and ur dead. Then next time when their not so lucky and thief badly out plays them the trash goes on forums to post how op they are and the team listens to this trash and nerfs them more so the hit with toothpicks while tanks go around with more burst then they have lol. Honestly in few months there be less players and prob like 6 people posting still in pvp section and with this community and team at the helm it won't be a community or much of a pvp game in a short time, hell pops so bad the matchmaking fails hard and at busy time there 6 or 7 people tops in arena lol.

Non of it suprising tho considering the garbage post recently as I dont blame players for not visiting the forums these days.

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > > I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

> > > >

> > > > Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

> > >

> > > i have a Thief staff build that easily output 8k-10k in PvP without using high gears. I don't know about the 23k damage output but it is still possible that Thief fully equipping with high gear+food can output 12k-18k easily.

> > >

> > > (also, my Toxic Bad Design Mesmer Profession can easily still +1 shot and its predecessor Thief Profession is right next to it) Yes, i said it...Mesmer design is Toxic....not only Thief.

> > >

> > > (F.Y.I, minimizing Thief damages doesn't help cover up their 8 years+ history of Broken Bad Design either)

> > >

> >

> > Yeah a staff build that's gbage and easily shut down and no it does not always do 8k, god I wish posters would stop lying as is people cant go see for themselves. Thief dps burst doesnt necessarily need increasing but sustain among certain classes def do need the nerf hammer swatted at them

>

> i'll look for the staff build and will follow up with you. During the meantime, let me start with this one- D/D Thief 15k+/+2 shotting with +1 shotting (**build included**)

>

> (by the way, Yes it is current video- April 2020)

> - a lot of deaths but its a showcase of Thief high burst damage output capability )

>

>

>

> **'In the end, there it is....Truth!!'**

>

Burn fall onto mist urself build a dp dardevil with as much power as u can and do a backstab, ull see for urself burst is pathetic now. No more other people vids see for urself man.

I love when ur decapping and only one full capping all game and when ur capping farbsay the msg u that ur not decapping close even tho u just did but other team just got there and at end of match u end up getting top kills and offense still but aperantly ur not doin anything 9r when someone gets mad u didnt jump in their 1v3 as a thief lmao and call u useless for not fighting the outnumbered with them

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > @"James.1065" said:

> > This must be an old thread cause mesmers suck - i farm them all day on my reaper.

> >

> > The only OP classes right now are core necro (can be fixed easy by matching it's shroud de-generation to the same rate as reaper shroud), and ranger (need to reduce thier survivalbilty - too much block, evade, invunerbility, invisibility, protection, regen mobility etc etc)

> >

> > Everything else seems to be feeling like its in a good position right now from a balance perspective, but that's just my opinion

>

> How does guardian spam block? I literally hit one with like 5 abilities and could never touch it. I think that sustain is crazy. Once I was up against one who could do that and could throw 10 burn stacks on me like it was nothing. I tried cleansing, hit me with it again. I think Guardian is in a crazy spot right now too.

Guards arnt really what's overperforming it's the high burst that burn tics can do that are, add the constant replication that guards, weavers and to lesser degree zergers can achieve it makes classes like guards high burst and sustained damage at same time. Also don't let guards tell u they cant chain blocks and invulnerability skills as I'm sure most people that have played this game over few days in pvp has witnessed first hand how long a good guard can avoid damage using its sustain skills properly. With the damage drop in non condi builds and the lack of changes to class sustain at all the fact guard,rangers, necros and weavers etc can sustain as they do while reapplying burns or other high damage conditions with tics that resemble bursts on a continuous basis makes for some pretty oppressive playstyles currently.

That's my opinion anyway.

Other than reduction in ai pet damage ranger and its weapons are fine.

> @"pninak.1069" said:

> I find it funny how you ignore thief. my friend I am playing with just yesterday told me that a thief spiked him for 23k. and most classes got their oneshot ability nerfed hard already.

Ur friend and or u are lying, pretty simple really. U or anyone can simple go into mist and build ur power core build- highest dps burst thief running DA 213,trickery 312 and CS 321 and for kicks add assassin signet and soa to ur utility bar and due ur best back stab on heavy golem or the practice ai guard or war and be amazed at ur 4k-6k back stab after getting boons from ur steal, then heartseeker for 2-4k and enjoy ur 3-400 damage autos except for the 1k hit on final hit of rotation lol compared to the sustain of necro,holo, revs,rangers,guards including their respective specs the thief's burst is pathetic. Try building a non 100% damage build to be bit more useful and go 1v1 vs any of those classes and observe how little dps u do compared to them and how funny it is watching all ur dagger attacks except one skill and a back stab do basically nothing against their hp lol. What's even funnier is thief's burst as it is right now is actually one of the lowest.

This would make the already broken revive traits and downstates some classes have even more broken land impactful within matches, surprised the new team haven't already added this lol

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > No, you misunderstood. The point of the rune is to be able to weapon swap with a shorter cooldown of 8 seconds. But if you do, you miss out on the very powerful procs from weapon swap sigils. That's why it's currently not worth playing with Rune of the Warrior: You offer up another, powerful rune to deny yourself the even more powerful on swap effects. The benefit the rune brings is small, the trade off is much larger.

> > > >

> > > > That's true but if ur using sigils not dependent on weapon swap and just apply their effects on cds a weapon swap cd reduction can be a nice qol.

> > >

> > > I suppose it's only really problematic on warrior when you want to run a sigil of energy/intelligence/cleansing. Especially energy is too good to give up and it's especially annoying when you need the endurance but it doesn't proc.

> > >

> > > I'd like to try it on core guard as well. Unfortunately you're stuck with lynx anyway.

> >

> > Yeah exactly, sometimes I run it on warrior to not make the weapon swap on non discipline builds sting so much.

>

> I've been playing with it even running discipline. There's good synergy with the traits and it changes how you play (a little). It's probably overkill but I like it with hammer/greatsword. I think it even makes kind of sense with a traited hammer.

Nice! It's my mainstay on thief as I actually feel the difference in weapon swap and has saved me many times.

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > No, you misunderstood. The point of the rune is to be able to weapon swap with a shorter cooldown of 8 seconds. But if you do, you miss out on the very powerful procs from weapon swap sigils. That's why it's currently not worth playing with Rune of the Warrior: You offer up another, powerful rune to deny yourself the even more powerful on swap effects. The benefit the rune brings is small, the trade off is much larger.

> >

> > That's true but if ur using sigils not dependent on weapon swap and just apply their effects on cds a weapon swap cd reduction can be a nice qol.

>

> I suppose it's only really problematic on warrior when you want to run a sigil of energy/intelligence/cleansing. Especially energy is too good to give up and it's especially annoying when you need the endurance but it doesn't proc.

>

> I'd like to try it on core guard as well. Unfortunately you're stuck with lynx anyway.

Yeah exactly, sometimes I run it on warrior to not make the weapon swap on non discipline builds sting so much.

> @"megilandil.7506" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

>

> > Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

>

> then have to lose all their movility, a class that can cross the map in few seconds and is a relliable duelist is op for the conquest game

So it can be a good duelers with lowest hp/armor and no mobility lmao right. So other classes that have great mobility and higher hp,armor and sustain skills are ok cuz it has bit less mobility than thief but thief has to lose all mobility. Unless u meant they would also get a hp and armor boost but then wouldn't feel like a rogue burst class. I think u guys are confused. Thief's don't want to be able to stick in a fight for long but instead want to be a high burst and get out type playstyle, u kno like a rogue type class lol. Having great sustained damage and being able to stay in a fight for a longer duration is just as good as doing enough burst to be effective in a short amount of time but not having the sustain to be in the fight for long. It's pretty easy to understand. A class that cant take half the amount oh damage has to be able to apply its damage in the time it has, on the other side usually classes that can stick in a fight longer are able to be as viable as the high burst class because they can stick in the fight longer to secure the down. Right now we-ve got those high sustain classes that can stick in fights far longer than thief out bursting the thief and providing the sustained damage if need be and that is very bad balancing on cmc side of things.

Shrug it off is great in this braindead condi spam meta, heal when giving others might is decent, imob on movement impairment adds to no escapes imob to annoy people and heal with shouts is good with shake it off and for justic(cant remember its name). Its a ok traitline but not great after its nerfs.

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> No, you misunderstood. The point of the rune is to be able to weapon swap with a shorter cooldown of 8 seconds. But if you do, you miss out on the very powerful procs from weapon swap sigils. That's why it's currently not worth playing with Rune of the Warrior: You offer up another, powerful rune to deny yourself the even more powerful on swap effects. The benefit the rune brings is small, the trade off is much larger.

That's true but if ur using sigils not dependent on weapon swap and just apply their effects on cds a weapon swap cd reduction can be a nice qol.

When players that dont play the class try and discuss how it should be balanced always offer up ideas that would destroy the class, weird...... lol