Psycoprophet.8107
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Posts posted by Psycoprophet.8107
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> @"Sobx.1758" said:
> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:
> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief?
> > >
> > > Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm...
> >
> > I believe it was sarcastic commentary on how this thread has devolved and not a serious suggestion.
>
> I skipped the last few posts, because that just started to look like a pointless back-and-forth about other games, on top of the @"Killthehealersffs.8940" actually lying about his video dev source, so why even bother.
>
> I'm not sure it was sarcastic, seriously so many straight up unusable "ideas" are posted on this forum so often that I don't think there's a way to tell for sure anymore (and judging by the response to that post above by another user, it seems I'm not the only one thinking that might be a serious suggestion :p ).
I apologize, ur right. I won't derail thread any further.
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> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Burst=low sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Actually, that has *nothing* to do with sustain. At all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay *in* a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something *actively* bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used *only* out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because *that* isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .
> > > > > > > In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Peace 2 hours
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.
> > > > >
> > > > > You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .
> > > > > If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking
> > > > >
> > > > > Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele range
> > > > > Gimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant
> > > >
> > > > I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > All classes can sneak and sneak stealth attack by crouching out of sight rendering them seemingly invisible. Invisibility via cloak and to stretch further potions is different than sneaking.
>
> Yes every class before out of comba can stealth (and avoid the pvp:P -can we have that in WvWvW too ?)
> If you push invisibility you need 1,5 sec before you get the ''hidden message'' .
> With Cloack you dont need to wait 1,5 sec , but i still can see you while i am near you meele-ing you + dots
Yeah thsts cuz dps reveal in eso but not for 3 sec and if stealth had as easy access and duration in gw2 as it does in eso than dps pulling thief outa stealth would be fine but 2 different stealth iterations. Gw2 stealth requires far more interaction and resources to up keep and for a shorter duration. I can stay invisible on my nightblade 30 secs while not putting very much effort but for 30 secs in gw2 I'd be not able to anything else but manage my ini to jump thru smoke fields as well as use utility skills. Also u can re enter stealth after a sec of not taking damage unlike gw2 3 sec reveal than having to create a field followed by blasting that field. If eso stealth was transferred over exactly how it is in eso I'd be far stronger than thiefs current stealth.
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> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > > > > > > > > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > > > > > > > > > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Burst=low sustain
> > > > > > > > > Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually, that has *nothing* to do with sustain. At all.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay *in* a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something *actively* bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used *only* out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because *that* isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .
> > > > > In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him
> > > > >
> > > > > Peace 2 hours
> > > >
> > > > Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.
> > >
> > > You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .
> > > If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking
> > >
> > > Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele range
> > > Gimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant
> >
> > I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal
>
>
>
All classes can sneak and sneak stealth attack by crouching out of sight rendering them seemingly invisible. Invisibility via cloak and to stretch further potions is different than sneaking. The only thing there share is the sneak attack part which has a built in hidden kilker effect to making sneak attacks always crit. I'll take that as well thanks.
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> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > > > > > > > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > > > > > > > > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Burst=low sustain
> > > > > > > > Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, that has *nothing* to do with sustain. At all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay *in* a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something *actively* bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used *only* out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games
> > > > >
> > > > > Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because *that* isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.
> > > >
> > > > 1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with **infiltrator/shadow return**? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?
> > > > Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing
> > > >
> > >
> > > You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed. *Hide in Shadows*? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do *before* they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run *never* go for stealth and *always* just switch to shortbow 5.
> > >
> > > > 2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed
> > >
> > > And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.
> >
> > You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point
>
> "Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the *average* combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > > > > > > > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > > > > > > > > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Burst=low sustain
> > > > > > > > Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Actually, that has *nothing* to do with sustain. At all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay *in* a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something *actively* bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used *only* out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games
> > > > >
> > > > > Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because *that* isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.
> > > >
> > > > 1)How many professions do you know that can keep up with **infiltrator/shadow return**? Hide in the shadows? and similar things?
> > > > Once the thief goes "puff", there is no much you can do...not everybody got a reveal handy and even if used, the thief would simply shortbow 5 out of reveal debuff and you've wasted an utility slot for nothing
> > > >
> > >
> > > You mean, Shadow Step? Its a 50 second cooldown skill. They cant exactly keep using it. Infiltrators Strike? Push the thief towards their port spot, and theyre screwed. *Hide in Shadows*? Its a 1 second channel. Just stun them if they use that bad healing skill (Note: This is why noone uses that bad healing skill). And as for the next part, first, you do most of what you can do *before* they enter stealth. But even then, you dont need a reveal at all. I mean hell, Im playing Engineer using the Tools traitline, and I simply dont use Lock On. Why? Its redundant. If the thief enters stealth, I just launch AoEs at their approximate position (after knocking off 50+% of their health with grenade barrage when they tried to enter stealth mid-combat), and they just die. There is a reason why thieves if they want to run *never* go for stealth and *always* just switch to shortbow 5.
> > >
> > > > 2)Yeah that's how it should work...major weaknesses while stealthed
> > >
> > > And that is how it works. In fact, the current problem is that it has too many weaknesses, so you see high-level thieves basically not using in-combat stealth at all. It leaves you extremely vulnerable, but has minimal benefits.
> >
> > You're playing a perfect combat scenario that works against thieves...what if I use the same scenario but in favor of thieves? That would invalidate every buff/nerf claim thieves have created up to this point
>
> "Perfect combat scenario"? Hah, no. Its the *average* combat scenario. The only way thief can stealth up "in-combat" without being punished is if theyre at range against an immobile melee class that has no pull of any kind. And at that point theyre not exactly "in-combat" anymore, are they? As I said, there is a reason thieves dont use stealth in combat. Its bad.
This true on most builds except dp which can blind with black powder then HS to stealth and reposition and chose to disengage or re engage depending on the situation and of course opponent skill level as a blind can be cleared quickly thru cleave as well the thief can also take damage from said cleave. I've gotten more than a few comments in chat when downing a stealth'd thief on my warrior calling me a hacker as if thieves arnt aware invisibility in no way means invulnerability lol.
Most thief builds dont use in combat stealth but dp does, just unfortunate it hits like $hit right now.
-
> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > > > > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > > > > > > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > > > > > > > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Burst=low sustain
> > > > > > > Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, that has *nothing* to do with sustain. At all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay *in* a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something *actively* bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used *only* out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?
> > > >
> > > > Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.
> > > >
> > > > > 2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games
> > > >
> > > > Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because *that* isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.
> > >
> > > If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .
> > > In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him
> > >
> > > Peace 2 hours
> >
> > Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate.
>
> You are in a semi transparent state , aand after 1,5 sec you go in fully stealth .
> If you get hit or attack you remain in the semi-visible state till they or you stop attacking
>
> Regadles of what time of stealth you do , you get destealth if i hit you from aoes or hunt you in meele range
> Gimme the same fuction in here too , and you can make stealth permanant
I have never noticed this semi transparent state u speak of while cloaking. I use it in combat and am instantly invisible, if being hit or just after yes but that sure beats a 3 sec out right reveal
-
Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief?
-
> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > > > > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > > > > > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
> > > > >
> > > > > No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just because you have stated it doesnt mean its right. It was wrong the first time. Its still wrong. And sure, thieves can repeat the sequence. If they dont give it their all each time and intentionally sandbag. Though, the "till the succeed" part is a bit misleading. They dont succeed. They just repeat until they get bored of failing so many times in a row and just peace out. Or they die. One of the two.
> > > >
> > > > > Burst=low sustain
> > > > > Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually, that has *nothing* to do with sustain. At all.
> > > >
> > > > > Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thats not what low sustain means. Low sustain means you cant stay *in* a fight long. It says nothing about your ability to run away. I could make a low sustain Ranger but I could still Swoop out of any fight. Also, if your grievance is the thief doing something *actively* bad, like trying to stealth up in combat, then thats on you. If they do that, punish them and kill them. Its quite easy. Stealth already is used *only* out of combat. Its not a "free reset option", its a "free damage for the opponent" option.
> > > >
> > > > > Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
> > > >
> > > > Terrible idea. It just makes stealth even more problematic and does nothing to affect how thief works. If anything, in-combat stealth should be buffed up. Make it thieves unique way of sustaining in-combat, rather than a noobtrap that you should never use.
> > >
> > > 1) How the hell do you you stop thief from going stealth ?
> >
> > Who says you stop him? You just get all that free damage in that his attempt to stealthing gives you, then track him through stealth with cleave and kill him. Its trivial. Thats why thieves generally dont use in-combat stealth.
> >
> > > 2)You cannot restealth in combat once revealed in other games
> >
> > Except in all MOBAs, multiple MMOs (even ESO), etc. etc.. Because *that* isnt the problem. In-combat stealth inherently has a major weakness. It means your opponent can hit you, but you cannot hit your opponent until you leave stealth. Out of combat stealth is the problem.
>
> If you hit the person trying tostealth in Eso , he will block the first attack but not the second .And he need 1,5 sec to fully stealth .
> In which point dps with aoes de-stealth him
>
> Peace 2 hours
Are u confusing stealth in eso as invisibility? Invisibility being shadow cloak is instant cast. It does not take me 1.5 secs to stealth. Aoe's pull u outa stealth cuz otherwise I'd be broken as I said press one button every 3 secs and u have perma invisibility. Invisibility in eso has way less upkeep and is far easier to upkeep long durations, unless changed dots reveal u but going invis while having dots suppresses them. Invisibility is stronger and easier to use in eso, I kno I often play my stamblade. If invisibility in gw2 was like eso's I'd get even more hate. Imagine blinding powder had no cast time, no cd and used a very very small amount of endurance each cast instead lol this wouldnt need another stealth skill :)
-
> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > >
> > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > >
> > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > >
> > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > >
> > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > >
> > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > >
> >
> > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
>
> No...I have stated that Burst spec is a +1 not a spec with massive opening dmg and retreat potential, right now thieves can fail and repeat the sequence till they succeed and that's my idea of "super duellist" and why people really hate thief in this game
>
> Burst=low sustain
> Low sustain =/ running away and try again in few secs thx to ini
>
> Low sustain means that you have failed and it's time to pay the price...you don't get to try again in few secs time while staying in combat, this is the **major grievance** with thieves : their ability to re-stealth while in combat. Stealth in general should be only to safely engage and disengage once out of combat...it should not be **a free reset option** for you to try and try again and make up for your failed burst at the beginning.
>
> Remove entirely the ability to re-stealth while in combat and provide thieves with the tools to safely disengage out of combat and try again or deal with the enemy once the element of surprise is void
Lol wow so ur idea of thief low sustain high burs in a game like gw2 means more times than not thief would just be a free kill, u know unless aegis, blocks,invulnerability and all the slew of ways someone could easily shut down a thiefs burst. In a game like gw2 with all the defensive skills given to classes a burst class as u describe having no disengage abilities would never attempt bursts as I'd be to risky and not worth it.
Does this apply to all classes? Thief burst high so no disengagement, all high hp classes with blocks get all their bursts that as of now match or surpass thiefs hammered nerfed to ground, rangers lb dps hammered cuz they get to hit from safe range,all war ranged dps hammered cuz there melee bruisers and so on...? Ur so biased no point discussing further, u or that kill guy lol
-
I'll take eso stealth even with reveal on dots, unless it has been changed stealth after aquiring dots suppresses them so build in shadows embrace ;). Plus I'd love to just time one button press for perma stealth.
-
> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > > > >
> > > > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> > > >
> > > > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> > > >
> > > > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> > > >
> > > > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> > > >
> > > > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
> > >
> > > So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> > > Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
> > >
> >
> > A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
> > I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
>
> Thief is Thief not an Assasin
> At launch ppl used the D/D one shot spec (assasin)
> At 2013-2014 when the the sword 3 , was split from one huge chain attack (evade spec)
> Or when HoT was luanced at semptember of 2015 , and at january ppl used the Headshot+Pi spec (disturb spec)
> Or 7 months after the Hot launcehd ppl found out the Stuff/Stuff build (evade spec)
> 3 months later than than the D/D conditional spec in WvWVw showned up (condition)
>
> All of these specs is differnt that the original description of the class , and the community found and usedd them
>
> (dont be rude to new players...)
Thief not a assassin? That statement itself is a good time to end the convo with one response.
Thief has so much of gw1 assassin intertwined into it that a assassin spec being given to thief in new cantha expac would basically be redundant. Look at every skill regarding how thief evades and disengages and thier utilities and playstyle, doesnt get more assassin. Poison,venoms,smoke bombs and screens,caltrops,throwing daggers. Hell even 90% of their traits depict shinobi as well as most trait names lending to the assassin theme. U either know very little about thief and shouldn't be arguing anything regarding the class or are just arguing for sake of arguement and either way going any further is pointless on my part. Unowen I suggest u do the same.
-
> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > >
> > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > >
> >
> > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> >
> > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > >
> >
> > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> >
> > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > >
> >
> > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> >
> > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> >
> > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
>
> So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
>
I'll take eso stealth anyday just remember to hit a button every 2 sec for perma stealth lol be way easier and less annoying to stay invisible lol
-
> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:
> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > >
> > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > >
> >
> > Sure, but burst spec = High burst. Something notably absent from thief.
> >
> > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > >
> >
> > Actually burst specs would be great for dueling. They can just burst the enemy down. But that requires them to have burst. Thief currently has worse burst than even some of the "tank" specs. Not an ideal situation, is it?
> >
> > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > >
> >
> > Stealth has no relevance here. "Resetting and disengaging" is something both warriors and rangers *excel* at, and theyve got high sustain. Hell even Ele is decent at it, and they got high sustain too. So no, thief would be able to keep it. They would lose some of the mobility, but not much. Or alternatively they get the burst they need to be *burst* specs.
> >
> > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...it's just pointless at this point to keep asking for that, **the community will never accept that idea of super mobile insta burst brawler from stealth**..it's simply absurd
> >
> > Are thieves asking for that? Right now thief burst isnt "huge burst twoshot". Its frankly rather pathetic. Thieves ask *either* for that burst, or for sustain. Currently they have *neither*.
>
> So we must copy the stealth of other games .
> Should we copy from WoW /Ender scroll /Rift where it breaks on damage or getting dots ? or from shouts ?
>
A burst spec needs the actual burst that's in the name, right now tanks frequently out burst thieves, that is poor balancing as a burst hit and run playstyle is set up where the burst is significant enough to severely damage the opponent if burst is successful and the run part is there because to deal that high burst it would be unbalanced to have the sustain to stay in the fight also providing sustained dps which is why high mobility evasiveness is added for a way to avoid being insta downed if ur burst fails.
I do agree that ALL melee damage should reveal thief, aoe and dots being exception due to gw2 prevalent aoe condi spamming as that would make stealth useless in most matches.
-
> @"Inguz.6493" said:
> I just got one yesterday! I play spellbreaker warrior with greatsword and dagger/shield and had a long and drawn-out duel in a rated conquest game with a mirror matchup (I probably should have just left instead of spending 2mins doing this). In the end, I was victorious with a really low amount of health, then the guy whispered me,
>
> Him: NOOB
> Me: STILL YOU LOST
Lol even if he won I'd have taken him 2 mins to down u making his comment still funny.
-
> @"UNOwen.7132" said:
> > @"Inguz.6493" said:
> > Thief (or most often daredevil) can down me while the thief survives with maybe 70-80% hp as a Spellbreaker Warrior with greatsword and dagger+shield. I can last for a while, that's not an issue, but the issue comes when actually trying to deal any sort of relevant damage. There's only so many stunbreaks I have access to. Right now my tactic is to wait out the initial burst with shield block (the one that blinks all over the place), dodge the clearly telegraphed beyblade and so on, and land a Bull's Charge 2s stun on the thief in between all these evade frames and invisibility, but it gets cleansed instantly and the thief just resets the fight and it starts all over again while I don't have my defensive CDs back yet.
> >
> > How the hell am I supposed to compete with all the stuns, blinds, dodges, evades and stealth fight resets when I either can't hit the thief or see him? In team fights I just slice them in half in a matter of seconds, but that's not what I want to know.
>
> Uh, this fight should be incredibly free for you. You do a lot more damage to them than they do to you, and you have a lot more survivabiltiy and CC than they do. You should note what kind of thief were talking about, though. If its D/P, just stun them and wail on them. Theyll have to burn a stunbreak or they die, and if they do, they cant fight you because your stuns have lower cooldowns than their stunbreaks. If theyre S/D, dodge Larcenous strike (the followup to the side-ways evade) and push them towards their infiltrators strike spot, that way their positioning is completely messed up. If its staff, dodge vault and the build is useless.
>
> Anyway, for the most part its just, hit them and use your defenses well? If you do that, the thief has absolutely no way of killing you. All they can (and will) do is run away.
True but If they don't know thief well a good dp thief can keep blinds up and out maneuver the war and chip its hp down. Not in thieves favor tho if war knows thief well. I'm glad he asked, more people should before claiming specs are OP.
-
I play a lot of both and have been on both sides many many times. On dp thief if the warrior doesn't no thiefs skills,rotations and the playstyle I can usually get the down with little pressure by blinding with black powder,using the smoke fields and by going in and out of stealth followed by backstabs. I find keeping my distance and timing my black powders so war isn't in melee distance for long without being blinded. As a warrior shield bash timed right or bulls charge are usually enough with 100 blades and f1. Dont use both SB and BS close together as the thief will predict what ur trying to do. Try and shield bash or BS during a thiefs aftercast, when I find I catch and get caught the most. Axe mh destroys thiefs quick whereas dagger mh bates out stunbreaks easier.
It's hard to say a definitive method as sometimes on thief I meet wars who I cant dent and wreck me and others I can delete using blinds and barely get touched. Same for warrior, sometimes catch damaged thief with axe 3 and that's all it took or catch them with hard cc and if thier stunbreaks are used the one burst downs them. For warrior each thief build takes different approach tho, lately been only touching dp.
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> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > >
> > > Burst spec = low sustain
> > > Brawler spec = mid sustain
> > > Tank spec = high sustain
> > >
> > > Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
> > >
> > > You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
> > >
> > > You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...
> >
> > I'll agree burst specs should rely on high mobility and evades but a burst spec should also have burst like stated in the description of burst spec. If u compare a power dp burst to almost every other class ull in fact notice that most classes including bunker specs can do 5k bursts in multiple ways matching the burst of the so called high mobility/evasive burst spec.
> > Balanced.... gw2 community lol.
> > Listening to the majority of these players is part of the reason this game is a clown fest. U can't balance a game dependent on annoyance rather than actual over performance no matter how hard the community tries.
>
> Blame Anet and not the community...you won't find any game out there whose community accept any implementation of stealth, it has been a griefing mechanic since the dawn of MMO
>
> Random player request on reddit....
>
> >Looking for an MMO with a stealth mechanic to ruthlessly gank / troll players on.
> >Listen lads. I need a good game where I can grief and troll other people with game mechanics.
>
> >No, not calling out someone for being a girl gamer or whatever, but something like Vanilla WoW where I can stealth a low level quest zone as a rogue and gank players all day, >or Rust where I can kill without armor on with a bolty from a tower.
>
> >Currently playing Will to Live Online but it only has like 70 people playing on the US server so there's not really anyone to gank and take their gear.
>
> >Anyone got a decent recommendation of what to play that has a decent sized player base for ganking / annoying? I'd prefer if it had a class with a stealth mechanic but it >doesn't have to have one.
>
> Do you see what stealth in a MMO normally entices? You can't blame people for hating any implementation of stealth in a MMO, it will always end being a griefing mechanic
True I am incorrect in blaming the community for anet listening to their balance changes based off annoyance rather than actual overperfornance as it's on anets team to be knowledgeable to determine the difference, they've been so good at it this far lol.
I understand people grievances with stealth and the have all the same complaints in all mmo's that have it which is most. There's a reason why it exists though. When creating a rogue archetype which is a popular archetype in mmo's and hated they all follow the same high mobility, highly evasive low hp/armor and usually have top burst potential which also creates a lot of q's. How would u create a class that has far lower hp/armor without giving it a mechanic like stealth to help being downed quickly in every engagements? Would u give it a huge number of evades/dodges to spam, not just 2 or 3 and some evades in select skills
Access to a blind on almost every skill, or maybe enough burst that just evading a few attacks and hitting the opponent only a few times would quickly down even tankier classes since its risky to fight?
How would u do the squishy burst class making it viable to fight and not just get deleted on first sign of counter pressure?
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> @"bluri.2653" said:
> sorry for getting pw deleted from the game, it will never return in pvp even with damage increase. The ini cost itself and less stun duration makes it not playable at high levels anymore
U should be honestly. As penance and due to u being one of the few thief players the team may listen to u must fight harder to get changes to improve thief implemented.
With great thief skills comes great responsibility.
Thief's future falls on ur shoulders.
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> @"anduriell.6280" said:
> Asuras are OP in any class. Assuras are the master race.
Fashion wars brings them somewhat in line.
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> @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > > > What OP thief build?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
> > >
> > > Vallun knows Thief Profession inside-out and has nothing to hide. He's willing to use any strategy to benefit Thief in any situations at the optimal outcome. Vallun could've taken the selfless direction and ignored his team and he didn't. Instead, he helped his team by being supported and fueling them with his experience of Thief Profession.
> > >
> > > In other word, he demonstrated that Thief Profession can not only be a 1vs Everyone=Win but can be Un-selfless Profession as well.
> > >
> > > I agree with you, Thief Profession is far from being healthy, it is pending a new redesign
> >
> > And sind doesn't?
>
> i only mention Vallun my friend. Yes, does too
So sindrener doesn't know his stuff when he states that it should ring some bells that in high level play these days thief doesn't output enough burst damage on a lot of classes during +1's resulting in the +1 taking far longer than it should considering not only is thief a burst class but it's also a 2v1 to start with? If a high mobility low hp burst class can't even put out enough burst to down something fairly quickly in a 2v1 there is a imbalance somewhere, either sustain is to high or burst to low or bit of both. Especially when the tanks output the same bursts as said burst specs lol.
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> @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > What OP thief build?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
>
> Vallun knows Thief Profession inside-out and has nothing to hide. He's willing to use any strategy to benefit Thief in any situations at the optimal outcome. Vallun could've taken the selfless direction and ignored his team and he didn't. Instead, he helped his team by being supported and fueling them with his experience of Thief Profession.
>
> In other word, he demonstrated that Thief Profession can not only be a 1vs Everyone=Win but can be Un-selfless Profession as well.
>
> I agree with you, Thief Profession is far from being healthy, it is pending a new redesign
And sind doesn't?
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> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > > > What OP thief build?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
>
> Burst spec = low sustain
> Brawler spec = mid sustain
> Tank spec = high sustain
>
> Burst specs are married to high mobility and evasion to carry out their role, perfect for +1 situations...**not super duellist role**, this is something thief players still don't understand at all.....expecting to have the highest mobility, the burst and the sustain to go toe to toe with builds specced for tanking...and come on top after some time without any chance for the opponent to ever catch up the thief in mobility.
>
> You want to duel?...You can ask for the sustain to do so...but after doing that don't expect to keep the vast majority of that mobility, stealth resetting ability and disengage in general
>
> You simply can't have huge burst twoshot and sustain in the same spec...
I'll agree burst specs should rely on high mobility and evades but a burst spec should also have burst like stated in the description of burst spec. If u compare a power dp burst to almost every other class ull in fact notice that most classes including bunker specs can do 5k bursts in multiple ways matching the burst of the so called high mobility/evasive burst spec.
Balanced.... gw2 community lol.
Listening to the majority of these players is part of the reason this game is a clown fest. U can't balance a game dependent on annoyance rather than actual over performance no matter how hard the community tries.
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> @"Burnfall.9573" said:
> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:
> > What OP thief build?
> >
> >
>
> 'A match where I don't play too well on D/P Thief, and neither does my team, but I adapt to bad situations. Showing that you can get kills easily as a thief so long as you find the right situations.', Vallun
>
>
The last paragraph of his vid description doesnt describe a class in a good state. Shows u can still get easy kills with thief as long as u find the right situation. If ur rotating and picking off opponents in +1 that are low on hp that's the right situation and a class that requires such for kills especially a burst class is far from being in a healthy spot.
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> @"Yoci.2481" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > Are these newer players? Why is it a issue now? Anyway if I is truly deemed a issue to the anet team hope they only alter its behavior in instances where exploiting can occur. I like stowing after a 1v1 for my style points lol no? Anybody else?
>
> On Mesmer after you 1-shot someone you have to immediately stow weapon or it doesn't count!
Exactly, it's like ur tipping ur hat at the opponent lol
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Druid seeing g play now is a great thing and doesnt need nerfed to the point it's never seen again. I think vines still have the hp that was balanced for a higher power level, since last patch hammered power levels down mechanics like barrier,shroud and vines are overperforming and hopefully will see adjustments. Once that happens along with dps nerfs to few pets and the game wide condi nerf druid will be fine.
How to Fix Stealth
in World vs. World
Posted
> @"Sobx.1758" said:
> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:
> > Let's make blinding powder thee only stealth giving skill. It now is instant, no cd, provides 3 secs of stealth and uses 5% of endurance each cast. No stealth stack limit. All damage reveals u, if u stealth while inflicted with dots they are suppressed while invisible. Would that be a buff or nerf to thief?
>
> Literally made rifle DE unplayable (along with any stealth attacks in general except for the opening one after perma stealthing, which is what people ACTUALLY seem to be crying about) and you're asking if that's nerf or a buff? hm...
I wasn't serious for one. 2nd of all how is all thief builds being able to continually stealth for 3 secs at a press of a button on no CD ruining their builds, I might be missing something obvious here.