Psycoprophet.8107

Think the last 6 of 8 pages have amounted to thief mains arguing in circles with non thief players. Thieves ur not gonna change their minds as they dislike the very design of ur class and whether a skill is OP or underperforming their views will remain the same as they want one of two outcomes, that is whine constantly about the class and hope it gets nerfed to the point their not challenging to face or to have them just deleted. Non thief players u are never gonna change thief mains minds about how they see the state of their class anymore than someone could change ur about the classes u main so.... think this thread is at a point of just neverending back and forth that won't accomplish anything and will just go in circles

Last week I climbed into plat and was in plat 2 games than come week later I'm now silver 3 lmao. In this game most matches even when I was gold 3 were filled with teammates that never go for any of the map bonuses, ull watch ur teamates run over a enemy capped node without even decapping it first, they chase players to get revenge instead of trying to rotate smart. It gets frustrating capping home to either head mid but ur team always loses mid fight before or just after u get there leaving u to either back off or take on the 1v4 lol or just in general usually being the last one left in team fights to face most the team urself. The ol one go home and other goes far, like wtf go far unless u kno ur really good dueler? Most times their not and they die and lose far while their teams in a 3v4 mid and usually gets deleted. I'm fine with players learning but if ur not even gonna try and make good rotations or ever go for the map bonuses go to unranked. Use unranked to get familiar with the game mode first. Seems like because the games population is so low much making is such a epic fail that u can be high gold trying for plat and most ur team seem like they started pvping an less than a hr before.

The root not having its hp reduced to comply with the game wide dps nerf has in anet fashion been left far to long. Rangers press a button and root u to eat their rapid fire etc is one prime example of the cheese carry bs this game is full of. I get rooting then bursting if the root had a 1 or 2 sec duration or hp at a lv that takes a sec or 2 to cleave but as it stands its seriously cheese incarnate. Than add the tigger autos on top, anets definitely promoting high skill competitive playstyle's right there. Guard traps do far to much damage and along with burning promotes the very playstyles u see all the time with guards, stand on point and just spam burns and traps which rewards them far to much.

This isn't no where near a new thing.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Since u guys take streamers as the rule watch noody most recent stream, was having a bad time dropping rating playing his thief and was raging until he swapped to mes to climb back up and was having a way better time. Funny hearing all the mesmers saying their weak and complain about thief lol

> >

> > It took 0.1 seconds for me to alt+f4

> >

> > 1) Playing power thief (only helpful in high ranks like mesmer portal, go condi in lower ranks) below P2 in 2020

> > 2) Playing mesmer without blink and arcane thievery good memes

>

> I watched noody video, argued that condi mes is OP while attacking condi mes clones for 15s, flailing around uselesly, proceeded to move mid, throw rock at a guy for like 16k. In his mind him using rampage and throwing rock for 16k as unkillable tank was fine, but condi mes was aids becouse he got lost in clones ;p

My point was he was having a rough time on his main, switched to mesmer and had way better time. Even joked that his saying is if ur ranks ever tanking just jump to mesme to climb. I'm not stating mes is OP or thief isnt just stating how HIS bmstream went since players take streamers and what they say as the be all end a defacto facts lol.

> @"darren.1064" said:

> > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:

> > The biggest issue right now is that for some inexplicable reason thief always seems to have some of the most braindead builds in pvp, pistol condie thief requires once again much like its predecessor such little skill yet its mightily effective.

>

> It wouldn't exist if thief balance was taken seriously. If power builds did absolutely any damage, thief condi builds wouldn't even be around. Instead, you guys are gonna have to suffer because condi thief is the only way that thief can do damage currently.

That's not true u can play a full damage CS p/d build that had gbage clears, or swap swap out trick for SA and run out of ur universal resource after 2 skills. Vids show thief builds can in fact do high damage, to bad their so bad in every other regard thier useless for for the most part, hence why no other class is forced to run ALL damage traits to do decent dps while retaining usefulness lol but its thief so it's good as it is. Thief is especially good for high dps if u trait its 3 min cd thieves guild.

Since u guys take streamers as the rule watch noody most recent stream, was having a bad time dropping rating playing his thief and was raging until he swapped to mes to climb back up and was having a way better time. Funny hearing all the mesmers saying their weak and complain about thief lol

its funny hearing all the mesmers talking how weak mes is, noody's latestvstream was having a bad time playing thief losing rating hard and swapped to mes to climb back up lol

> @"raveparade.7582" said:

> You get 240 with 2 axes equipped, tooltip is wrong or its bugged.

Yeah with one axe I get 120 ferocity with trait or 240 with both, tooltip is worded wrong

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > I've been saying that thief damage is good as long as you spec offensive stuff instead of defensive, giving the example of mesmer with defensive traitlines doing 9k power burst. Your core build is the perfect example of this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > But apparently for some thieves is easier to beg ANerf for damage buffs instead of figuring this stuff out.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer does *much* more burst than 9k with defensive traitlines. Thief does less with 3 offensive traitlines. No, thief damage is pathetic. I mean, bloody hell, my Core Grenade Engineer build, which A, is not meta, and B, uses *2* defensive traitlines (Tools and Alchemy), does far more burst damage than his thief that runs full offense. Thats a *bad* sign.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/TkSxzEZ

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Don't know why I waste my time, already know the answer "liar, fabricated, photoshop yadda yadda nonsense nonsense nonsense"

> > > > > > > > > > As for thief damage Vallun's video above prove it does fine damage as long as you spec offensive traitlines.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I indeed do not know why you wasted time fabricating such an obvious joke of a screenshot. Standard build, Dueling 2 3 1, Domination 1 2 2, Chaos 3 1 2. Zerkers, scholars, compounding and exploitation, you know the drill. Mantra activated in advance so its might doesnt apply. Golem starts at above 50%, because otherwise several traits would be active. The damage is slightly higher than against a player potentially (Since the golem doesnt use any skills obviously, making shattered anguishs doubling apply). [Here](https://imgur.com/FvUR3l9) is the result. Notably, significantly higher than 9k. Its 15325 damage. There is also a power spike that just didnt fit in the combat log, but its only 350 damage so its irrelevant. And before you say "well thats because everything crit (ignoring that the same is true of the thief damage you liked to show)", the non-crit versions werent much lower. I think I got between 11k-12k on average.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And no, Valluns video proved the opposite. He had to spec *3* offensive traitlines (something no other class has to do), and the damage was *still* pathetic. 4-6k backstabs, with little else in terms of followup. Again, I play Core Engineer. I do over 2000 more burst damage while using 2 defensive traitlines. I could push it much higher if I too ran 3 offense traitlines.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > L2read maybe?

> > > > > > > > I said defensive traits. Dom Duel are offensive.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5-6k backstabs on heavy is absolutely fine in the current game balance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > I've been saying that thief damage is good as long as you spec offensive stuff instead of defensive, giving the example of mesmer with defensive traitlines doing 9k power burst. Your core build is the perfect example of this.

> > > > > > > > > > > > But apparently for some thieves is easier to beg ANerf for damage buffs instead of figuring this stuff out.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer does *much* more burst than 9k with defensive traitlines. Thief does less with 3 offensive traitlines. No, thief damage is pathetic. I mean, bloody hell, my Core Grenade Engineer build, which A, is not meta, and B, uses *2* defensive traitlines (Tools and Alchemy), does far more burst damage than his thief that runs full offense. Thats a *bad* sign.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/TkSxzEZ

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Don't know why I waste my time, already know the answer "liar, fabricated, photoshop yadda yadda nonsense nonsense nonsense"

> > > > > > > > > > As for thief damage Vallun's video above prove it does fine damage as long as you spec offensive traitlines.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I indeed do not know why you wasted time fabricating such an obvious joke of a screenshot. Standard build, Dueling 2 3 1, Domination 1 2 2, Chaos 3 1 2. Zerkers, scholars, compounding and exploitation, you know the drill. Mantra activated in advance so its might doesnt apply. Golem starts at above 50%, because otherwise several traits would be active. The damage is slightly higher than against a player potentially (Since the golem doesnt use any skills obviously, making shattered anguishs doubling apply). [Here](https://imgur.com/FvUR3l9) is the result. Notably, significantly higher than 9k. Its 15325 damage. There is also a power spike that just didnt fit in the combat log, but its only 350 damage so its irrelevant. And before you say "well thats because everything crit (ignoring that the same is true of the thief damage you liked to show)", the non-crit versions werent much lower. I think I got between 11k-12k on average.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And no, Valluns video proved the opposite. He had to spec *3* offensive traitlines (something no other class has to do), and the damage was *still* pathetic. 4-6k backstabs, with little else in terms of followup. Again, I play Core Engineer. I do over 2000 more burst damage while using 2 defensive traitlines. I could push it much higher if I too ran 3 offense traitlines.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > L2read maybe?

> > > > > > > > I said defensive traits. Dom Duel are offensive.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And chaos isnt. Even Dueling is half-half. Its still more defensive traitlines than the DD SA Trickery thief. What, did you show Mesmer with *3* defensive traitlines there (actually, looking at the damage that appears to be exactly what it is). Your suggestion is that thief damage is fine because DD SA Trickery thief does only slightly less burst than a full defense Mesmer? Hah.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5-6k backstabs on heavy is absolutely fine in the current game balance.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Oh no its 6k on light, *maybe* medium. On heavy its 4k. Thats absolutely *pathetic* in the current game balance. Even by thief standards.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Chaos is offensive?!

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The traitline that features only 1 damage amplifying trait, which is for condi and as such not used for power, is offensive? What?

> > > > >

> > > > > > No, my point is if you want damage you should spec offensive traitlines. Like the core build on Vallun's video.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Except thief *already* specs more offensive traitlines than anyone else. They still do jack all damage. Even when they spec *3* offensive traitlines. Again, something *no* other class does. Even then do they not do as much damage as other classes do with *1* offensive traitline. So your point is basically "thief shouldnt do damage even if they go max glass cannon".

> > > > >

> > > > > > Again see Vallun's videos, 5k on heavy at 10min50

> > > > >

> > > > > On a golem, with the full black powder damage combo that amps damage by more than a realistic scenario would allow. And with max stacked lead attacks (rather than the typical 0). Not in an actual game. There its indeed around 4k.

> > > >

> > > > There's a question mark on my post. I asked if you consider chaos offensive, since you said dueling is half half.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Oh. No, it is utility, Dueling is half-half.

> > >

> > > > Power mes uses 2 full offensive traitlines and a defensive one (looking at the traits choice).

> > > > D/P DD uses how many offensive ones?

> > > >

> > >

> > > It uses *1* full offensive one. Dueling is half half. Chaos is full defensive. D/P DD uses 1 full offensive one, and 2 half/half ones. Of course, if you want to count Dueling as a fully offensive one, then the answer is D/P DD uses *3*. Since Daredevil and Shadow Arts are as offensive as Dueling is.

> > >

> > > > When even one of the best thieves around says thief damage is fine, there's not much to argue.

> > >

> > > And when even *the* best thief says thief damage is far too low, then there's not much to argue. This is the problem with argumentum ab auctoritate, there is usually an even higher authority to invoke. Of course, both of those are fallacies. The truth is, we have to make our own arguments based on what we see. What we see is thief doing less damage with 3 full offense traitlines than even Core Engineer does with only *1* offense traitline. Thats too low.

> >

> > If u talking about sindrener that was a while back when he stated that, he hasn't had to many negative things to say recently about thief state so maybe he's adjusted to things and is now on page with vallun that thief is completely fine. These players know there stuff so if they say thiefs fine maybe it's just not ur thing anymore. Their still doing fine on the class so thief players who feel otherwise must be wrong in thinking thief is in a weak state.

> >

> > Nerf teef! :)

>

> He hasnt exactly said anything to the contrary either. And there is no doubt that the current meta puts thief at a heavy disadvantage. Then again, hasnt he tried swapping to Rev recently?

Yeah but when u have the experience, and ur name tied to best player of a class he'd prob really have to be at a point of dislike of the class to ever switch. Plus he's not as good YET on rev lol.

Name change contract is severely over priced.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > > I've been saying that thief damage is good as long as you spec offensive stuff instead of defensive, giving the example of mesmer with defensive traitlines doing 9k power burst. Your core build is the perfect example of this.

> > > > > > > > > > But apparently for some thieves is easier to beg ANerf for damage buffs instead of figuring this stuff out.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mesmer does *much* more burst than 9k with defensive traitlines. Thief does less with 3 offensive traitlines. No, thief damage is pathetic. I mean, bloody hell, my Core Grenade Engineer build, which A, is not meta, and B, uses *2* defensive traitlines (Tools and Alchemy), does far more burst damage than his thief that runs full offense. Thats a *bad* sign.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/TkSxzEZ

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't know why I waste my time, already know the answer "liar, fabricated, photoshop yadda yadda nonsense nonsense nonsense"

> > > > > > > > As for thief damage Vallun's video above prove it does fine damage as long as you spec offensive traitlines.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I indeed do not know why you wasted time fabricating such an obvious joke of a screenshot. Standard build, Dueling 2 3 1, Domination 1 2 2, Chaos 3 1 2. Zerkers, scholars, compounding and exploitation, you know the drill. Mantra activated in advance so its might doesnt apply. Golem starts at above 50%, because otherwise several traits would be active. The damage is slightly higher than against a player potentially (Since the golem doesnt use any skills obviously, making shattered anguishs doubling apply). [Here](https://imgur.com/FvUR3l9) is the result. Notably, significantly higher than 9k. Its 15325 damage. There is also a power spike that just didnt fit in the combat log, but its only 350 damage so its irrelevant. And before you say "well thats because everything crit (ignoring that the same is true of the thief damage you liked to show)", the non-crit versions werent much lower. I think I got between 11k-12k on average.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And no, Valluns video proved the opposite. He had to spec *3* offensive traitlines (something no other class has to do), and the damage was *still* pathetic. 4-6k backstabs, with little else in terms of followup. Again, I play Core Engineer. I do over 2000 more burst damage while using 2 defensive traitlines. I could push it much higher if I too ran 3 offense traitlines.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > L2read maybe?

> > > > > > I said defensive traits. Dom Duel are offensive.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5-6k backstabs on heavy is absolutely fine in the current game balance.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > > > > > I've been saying that thief damage is good as long as you spec offensive stuff instead of defensive, giving the example of mesmer with defensive traitlines doing 9k power burst. Your core build is the perfect example of this.

> > > > > > > > > > But apparently for some thieves is easier to beg ANerf for damage buffs instead of figuring this stuff out.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mesmer does *much* more burst than 9k with defensive traitlines. Thief does less with 3 offensive traitlines. No, thief damage is pathetic. I mean, bloody hell, my Core Grenade Engineer build, which A, is not meta, and B, uses *2* defensive traitlines (Tools and Alchemy), does far more burst damage than his thief that runs full offense. Thats a *bad* sign.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/a/TkSxzEZ

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Don't know why I waste my time, already know the answer "liar, fabricated, photoshop yadda yadda nonsense nonsense nonsense"

> > > > > > > > As for thief damage Vallun's video above prove it does fine damage as long as you spec offensive traitlines.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I indeed do not know why you wasted time fabricating such an obvious joke of a screenshot. Standard build, Dueling 2 3 1, Domination 1 2 2, Chaos 3 1 2. Zerkers, scholars, compounding and exploitation, you know the drill. Mantra activated in advance so its might doesnt apply. Golem starts at above 50%, because otherwise several traits would be active. The damage is slightly higher than against a player potentially (Since the golem doesnt use any skills obviously, making shattered anguishs doubling apply). [Here](https://imgur.com/FvUR3l9) is the result. Notably, significantly higher than 9k. Its 15325 damage. There is also a power spike that just didnt fit in the combat log, but its only 350 damage so its irrelevant. And before you say "well thats because everything crit (ignoring that the same is true of the thief damage you liked to show)", the non-crit versions werent much lower. I think I got between 11k-12k on average.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And no, Valluns video proved the opposite. He had to spec *3* offensive traitlines (something no other class has to do), and the damage was *still* pathetic. 4-6k backstabs, with little else in terms of followup. Again, I play Core Engineer. I do over 2000 more burst damage while using 2 defensive traitlines. I could push it much higher if I too ran 3 offense traitlines.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > L2read maybe?

> > > > > > I said defensive traits. Dom Duel are offensive.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And chaos isnt. Even Dueling is half-half. Its still more defensive traitlines than the DD SA Trickery thief. What, did you show Mesmer with *3* defensive traitlines there (actually, looking at the damage that appears to be exactly what it is). Your suggestion is that thief damage is fine because DD SA Trickery thief does only slightly less burst than a full defense Mesmer? Hah.

> > > > >

> > > > > > 5-6k backstabs on heavy is absolutely fine in the current game balance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh no its 6k on light, *maybe* medium. On heavy its 4k. Thats absolutely *pathetic* in the current game balance. Even by thief standards.

> > > >

> > > > Chaos is offensive?!

> > > >

> > >

> > > The traitline that features only 1 damage amplifying trait, which is for condi and as such not used for power, is offensive? What?

> > >

> > > > No, my point is if you want damage you should spec offensive traitlines. Like the core build on Vallun's video.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Except thief *already* specs more offensive traitlines than anyone else. They still do jack all damage. Even when they spec *3* offensive traitlines. Again, something *no* other class does. Even then do they not do as much damage as other classes do with *1* offensive traitline. So your point is basically "thief shouldnt do damage even if they go max glass cannon".

> > >

> > > > Again see Vallun's videos, 5k on heavy at 10min50

> > >

> > > On a golem, with the full black powder damage combo that amps damage by more than a realistic scenario would allow. And with max stacked lead attacks (rather than the typical 0). Not in an actual game. There its indeed around 4k.

> >

> > There's a question mark on my post. I asked if you consider chaos offensive, since you said dueling is half half.

> >

>

> Oh. No, it is utility, Dueling is half-half.

>

> > Power mes uses 2 full offensive traitlines and a defensive one (looking at the traits choice).

> > D/P DD uses how many offensive ones?

> >

>

> It uses *1* full offensive one. Dueling is half half. Chaos is full defensive. D/P DD uses 1 full offensive one, and 2 half/half ones. Of course, if you want to count Dueling as a fully offensive one, then the answer is D/P DD uses *3*. Since Daredevil and Shadow Arts are as offensive as Dueling is.

>

> > When even one of the best thieves around says thief damage is fine, there's not much to argue.

>

> And when even *the* best thief says thief damage is far too low, then there's not much to argue. This is the problem with argumentum ab auctoritate, there is usually an even higher authority to invoke. Of course, both of those are fallacies. The truth is, we have to make our own arguments based on what we see. What we see is thief doing less damage with 3 full offense traitlines than even Core Engineer does with only *1* offense traitline. Thats too low.

If u talking about sindrener that was a while back when he stated that, he hasn't had to many negative things to say recently about thief state so maybe he's adjusted to things and is now on page with vallun that thief is completely fine. These players know there stuff so if they say thiefs fine maybe it's just not ur thing anymore. Their still doing fine on the class so thief players who feel otherwise must be wrong in thinking thief is in a weak state.

Nerf teef! :)

Best thing u can do if ur team doesnt provide the pressure u need to do ur job simply roam and avoid everyone all game then roast ur team and mention ur 0 deaths lol

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > That’s nice. Have you tried fighting bunker comp guilds before? The overheat would land for like 4k.

> >

> > Can we not balance things based on upscaled green gear users

>

> This is the exact thing going on right now with ranger pets. Some guy was using photos of a bird hitting a person for high damage stacking every modifier you can think of, including sic em and opening strike mods, with his target being a berserker stats wielding elementalist. It's just smh reading all this kitten.

Yeah and? It's not ok cuz its regarding ur class this time? This is literally the the same thing all nerf threads on a class do, show unusually high numbers of stars aligned situations. When it's on a class we dislike it's fine to do so a cry for nerfs, but when it's on our own it's not lol.

Vallun vid clearly shows thief is still kinda broken. With all the access to teleports,stealth evades he was still doing to much damage especially if running trick/DA/CS. Thief still has some things still overperforming like smoke screen being bit to low of CD, tele's should be shorter range, stealth should be capped at 3 sec non stackable. Skills like sw2 should also get ini increases especially on the return to balance out the play making ability it has. Thief party elite was clearly shown to be op in vallun's vid, 300 sec CD would be more appropriate.

Thief has teleports, stealth and tons of evades so it damage should be on the Lower end. To be honest stealth should be capped at 3 secs across all classes and sw2 should cost far more ini due to it's ability to make plays other classes cant.

Nerf thief!

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > I've been saying that thief damage is good as long as you spec offensive stuff instead of defensive, giving the example of mesmer with defensive traitlines doing 9k power burst. Your core build is the perfect example of this.

> > > > > > But apparently for some thieves is easier to beg ANerf for damage buffs instead of figuring this stuff out.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmer does *much* more burst than 9k with defensive traitlines. Thief does less with 3 offensive traitlines. No, thief damage is pathetic. I mean, bloody hell, my Core Grenade Engineer build, which A, is not meta, and B, uses *2* defensive traitlines (Tools and Alchemy), does far more burst damage than his thief that runs full offense. Thats a *bad* sign.

> > > >

> > > > https://imgur.com/a/TkSxzEZ

> > > >

> > > > Don't know why I waste my time, already know the answer "liar, fabricated, photoshop yadda yadda nonsense nonsense nonsense"

> > > > As for thief damage Vallun's video above prove it does fine damage as long as you spec offensive traitlines.

> > >

> > > I indeed do not know why you wasted time fabricating such an obvious joke of a screenshot. Standard build, Dueling 2 3 1, Domination 1 2 2, Chaos 3 1 2. Zerkers, scholars, compounding and exploitation, you know the drill. Mantra activated in advance so its might doesnt apply. Golem starts at above 50%, because otherwise several traits would be active. The damage is slightly higher than against a player potentially (Since the golem doesnt use any skills obviously, making shattered anguishs doubling apply). [Here](https://imgur.com/FvUR3l9) is the result. Notably, significantly higher than 9k. Its 15325 damage. There is also a power spike that just didnt fit in the combat log, but its only 350 damage so its irrelevant. And before you say "well thats because everything crit (ignoring that the same is true of the thief damage you liked to show)", the non-crit versions werent much lower. I think I got between 11k-12k on average.

> > >

> > > And no, Valluns video proved the opposite. He had to spec *3* offensive traitlines (something no other class has to do), and the damage was *still* pathetic. 4-6k backstabs, with little else in terms of followup. Again, I play Core Engineer. I do over 2000 more burst damage while using 2 defensive traitlines. I could push it much higher if I too ran 3 offense traitlines.

> >

> > Man like I said just roll and main ur engie, u obviously don't like how thief is now and there's no point in forcing ur self to play it. Leave thief behind to vallun etc, let them have thief since the like the class as is and enjoy ur time on engie. U gotta be getting tired of arguing with players who only know what they here about a class or what they see when they fight it lol. Everyone in these forums are experts of balancing when it comes to classes they know little about, dislike fighting against and especially the ones they don't even play lol.

> > Just enjoy ur time on engie and let the class be what it is to those that still like it like vallun etc.

>

> I have. That doesnt mean I wont point out wrong things. But, perhaps you are right. Ill just start playing Rev and Fat Thief instead.

Yeah man good idea, ull enjoy ur time more, I mean I may even join the nerf thief players to keep em farmable on my rev lol.

If all the thief busts hyperbole matter little to u cuz the class is in ur past u can focus on the rare decent threads in these forums.

If some thief players like thief as it is let them have it man lol.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > I've been saying that thief damage is good as long as you spec offensive stuff instead of defensive, giving the example of mesmer with defensive traitlines doing 9k power burst. Your core build is the perfect example of this.

> > > > But apparently for some thieves is easier to beg ANerf for damage buffs instead of figuring this stuff out.

> > >

> > > Mesmer does *much* more burst than 9k with defensive traitlines. Thief does less with 3 offensive traitlines. No, thief damage is pathetic. I mean, bloody hell, my Core Grenade Engineer build, which A, is not meta, and B, uses *2* defensive traitlines (Tools and Alchemy), does far more burst damage than his thief that runs full offense. Thats a *bad* sign.

> >

> > https://imgur.com/a/TkSxzEZ

> >

> > Don't know why I waste my time, already know the answer "liar, fabricated, photoshop yadda yadda nonsense nonsense nonsense"

> > As for thief damage Vallun's video above prove it does fine damage as long as you spec offensive traitlines.

>

> I indeed do not know why you wasted time fabricating such an obvious joke of a screenshot. Standard build, Dueling 2 3 1, Domination 1 2 2, Chaos 3 1 2. Zerkers, scholars, compounding and exploitation, you know the drill. Mantra activated in advance so its might doesnt apply. Golem starts at above 50%, because otherwise several traits would be active. The damage is slightly higher than against a player potentially (Since the golem doesnt use any skills obviously, making shattered anguishs doubling apply). [Here](https://imgur.com/FvUR3l9) is the result. Notably, significantly higher than 9k. Its 15325 damage. There is also a power spike that just didnt fit in the combat log, but its only 350 damage so its irrelevant. And before you say "well thats because everything crit (ignoring that the same is true of the thief damage you liked to show)", the non-crit versions werent much lower. I think I got between 11k-12k on average.

>

> And no, Valluns video proved the opposite. He had to spec *3* offensive traitlines (something no other class has to do), and the damage was *still* pathetic. 4-6k backstabs, with little else in terms of followup. Again, I play Core Engineer. I do over 2000 more burst damage while using 2 defensive traitlines. I could push it much higher if I too ran 3 offense traitlines.

Man like I said just roll and main ur engie, u obviously don't like how thief is now and there's no point in forcing ur self to play it. Leave thief behind to vallun etc, let them have thief since the like the class as is and enjoy ur time on engie. U gotta be getting tired of arguing with players who only know what they here about a class or what they see when they fight it lol. Everyone in these forums are experts of balancing when it comes to classes they know little about, dislike fighting against and especially the ones they don't even play lol.

Just enjoy ur time on engie and let the class be what it is to those that still like it like vallun etc.

> @"Xca.9721" said:

> 

>

> This was out of stealth btw, instant death

Yeah the power drop didn't effect certain aspects of certain classes much lol.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Project exa.3204" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

> > >

> > > Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.

> > > Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

> > >

> > > Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.

> > > -Eros of Ascalon

> >

> > Thief is already a must have (pretty much) in high tier games. If you buff it for the mediocre people, it will just steamroll everything in high tier. We don't want a repeat of pre patch meta with double SA one shots.

>

> Its not. Actually quite the opposite, the high tier is dropping thief since its simply ineffective in the current meta. We also didnt have thief one-shots (far too low of a damage) or double thieves (2 thieves is a lot worse than one and usually ensures that you lose).

Man in all honesty just play a different class if ur like me and don't like how it feels anymore, there's other classes just as fun to use. Leave thief to vallun etc who think it's fine and move on ur gaming will be better and the thief players that like how it currently is can keep on doing so.

My guess is they want the reward but not to subject themselves to the pvp mess.

I just tried it in the mists and with trait and one axe was at 120 ferocity.

Is ace mastery's tool tip wrong? States u gain 120 ferocity. Gain additional ferocity for each axe welded yet wielding one axe only grants 120 ferocity instead of 240. The tool tip makes it sound like even without axe u get 120 than additional for each axe

All I know is spear is one of thee iconic warrior type weapons and it's crazy of all the weapons warrior can use a spear isn't among them.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > gw2 wiki

> You mean, the wiki that says Lightning Rod is 1.5 coefficient when in reality it is not?

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Ok ??? Makes sense arrows would arc no?

>

> Sure, they can easily make the arc start earlier (shortening the base "non arcing" range) and end on 1500ish.

Hey not arguing, u asked and I answered. Says projectiles will have increased range when released from hight, just google gw2 projectiles and wiki should come up.

As to what u said about arcing earlier so full range is what's in tool top, sure that makes sense to, than maybe in wvw wall warrior rangers and npc's would f off from shotting me across the map with there arrows.