Psycoprophet.8107

It's a mix of both, sustain on a few classes need shaved as well thief needs slight dps buff so its bursts and follow ups are still impactful but don't promote 1 shots.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > > Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.

> > > But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

> >

> > Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

> > U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.

> > I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

>

> I believe so far you have been asking for an opener with crippling dmg so high that not even a high sustain spec could survive it but then again...you first ask for dmg, then duelling abilities and then both in the same instance.....you seem to be wanting both.

>

>

 

Nope! Not even close. I want a burst that does more than tickle most of the high sustain classes, autos that do more than 300-500 which is like a mosquito buzzing around most classes. I do not want one hit ko backstabs at all but I want a class to at least be at 30% hp if I set up a backstab, land it,land few autos and a heart seeker which is pretty balanced sounding to me from a squishy burst class. As it stands right now in ur so called fine state of thief the thief cant even +1 a enemy and down it quick even if its burst and follow ups land lol yeah balanced if u are biased and dislike the class maybe. I never stated I want one shots on any class but as it is now not only do tanks out burst thief thee burst class but some ranger pets as well lmao..... balanced.

It looks more medium but still considering rev channels shiro and gains abilities from shiro I'd make sense for rev to have it. Would look sweet with the dual swords. Or make a shiro inspired heavy set, either or I'd be happy lol.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > > Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.

> > > But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

> >

> > Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

> > U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.

> > I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

>

> also in those MMS tanks are tanky to the point of immortality or mages have aoe that covers entire screens in 1shot pulsing fields, gw2 is no other MMO.

> balance it properly not in a stupid way othe MMOs are balanced.

 

Yeah but what's properly? Properly in 75% of the community minds would see the rogue spec no longer resembling anything rogue like. If it somehow was still rogue like it be useless cuz umm look at almost all non thief players post about balancing thief aka delete it or make it useless.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.

> > But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

>

> Dont think it should be a GS. Maybe offhand sword, maybe Mace, but Greatsword is just not thematically appropriate for theif in any version.

 

I agree, dual sword thief duelist would fit tho, when I think gs duelist I think of war/rev and only one has gs, really hoping the other does come cantha lol. Dual sword/gs shiro all day every day.

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> Maybe next elite speck will be 1v1 duelist with one weapon slot, so it would have to be less mobile but have better damage. Maybe a GS would fit.

> But till then being mobile and doing kitten ton of damage doesn't fit.

 

Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

U know high sustained damage and high burst damage are both a thing and in most mmos high mobility archetypes like rogues get high burst as well so they can get in quick and do the damage the need to do before gtfo cuz their usually also squishy, hense high mobility and evades. Higher sustain classes usually have lower bursts but higher sustained damage because the can stay in the fight long enough to deal it.

I love the community lmao let's make up our own rules to coincide with our bias against thief and call it the rule even though goes against the actual tropes made by all past mmo's.

Can we get shiro's armor in cantha expac?

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I wasn't blowing cooldowns offensively in that matchup. You have absolutely 0 idea what you're talking about. That video you posted is hilariously bad btw.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Read it again, but slowly

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You're one to talk, dude who got carried by his pet and didnt dodge any of the holo's skills

> > > > > > > > > Seriously dude learn to play. No dodges no heals and you last over a minute. Any other class would have destroyed you in less than 10s.

> > > > > > > > > also :

> > > > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > > > This is the damage the elite of the tiger does to you and you are running a weird glass build with no damage, vitality or toughness. Seriously you should learn to play.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > you mean 4,7k dmg to a scrapper with 3,3k toughness ? light armor with no toughness would have taken almost 10k :D

> > > > > > > Do you mean :

> > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > > 3k power, **berserkers amulet**. Please tell me more about how power builds should deal with this. 3.3k armor+perma protection for the ranger, who only needs to press 1 and kite to win. So is the solution to core ranger that you should only fight them with condi builds? lmao

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's 0 toughness. That dude has no toughness at all whatsoever. To a tanky target it would not reach 2K. Do please bother to read the thread at least before writing no sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > my bad, didnt pay attention

> > > > > In case people are blind, ranger isnt running MS nor does know how to maul before F2, heh

> > > >

> > > > I know that pets can hit for 10-15k, doesnt excuse me from reading poorly, this is preety much 2 troll builds fighting eachother not much to gauge from that

> > >

> > > Pets could hit 10k in 2013. They were nerfed then. They can't hit that high now.

> >

> > Wrong! I got hit for 11k by a gazelle last week so saying pets can't do 10k is strait up bs. Yes I was playing a squishy thief with 16k hp but 11k is 11k

>

> Right sorry, a 25 might stacked 25 vuln on target, fully buffed with BM and MM and Sic Em pet does hit for more than that. Same way holo can do 18k Overheats. But we aren't complaining about that because these things don't happen very often.

>

> Keep it in perspective please.

 

Lol keep it in perspective, what perspective? A biased main that is trying his best to defend a obvious broken aspect of his class? I get the stars aligned arguement as I've seen em regarding full malice de with outside support giving boons making high backstab numbers but this 11k from ranger on my dp thief happened on temple on his home node and we were 1v1 and his gazelle charged me and downed me instantly as I was not full health. The log stated 11ish k damage from charge so..... that is some good dps from a non player ai. Yet there was a post thief still hitting 5k backstab lmao. Community is funny.

Best way to fix stealth and most realistic is to come to a self realization that not only is there already multiple counterplay against it but also that it's been the same since its iteration into the game and is very very unlikely to undergo any significant changes this many yrs later. Realize all that and let the weight float off ur shoulders lol.

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Wrong! I got hit for 11k by a gazelle last week so saying pets can't do 10k is strait up bs. Yes I was playing a squishy thief with 16k hp but 11k is 11k

> Video or is not true. 11K is not possible nowadays even with all the buffs the ranger has. Make sure to show your armor rating as well.

>

 

Yeah It did happen and ranger stated in chat before I even said anything yeah thiefs get hit hard lol, his exact words. Maybe learn ur class before making false statements. I'm not lying about something so stupid as a video game nor did I imagine it. Saying vid or didn't happen is such a lame and weak defense. I was dp thief running scholar and warrior rune. Like I said 16k squishy but 11k is 11k and from a ai pet that's ludicrous. Really matters little cmc stated in stream their aware some pets do to much damage so I'm sure certain pets will inevitably see damage nerfs very soon.

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > Pw dps is fine for what it does, more damage would lead to a nerf in other aspects of the skill. A better example of thief skills that need a damage buff are pulmonary impact and dagger autos as they are pathetic lol.

> > Try necro dagger after feb 25th. That's pathetic! It's slower and deals less damage than the teef dagger because necro has less trait multipliers. So it's all relative...

> >

> > @topic:

> > Pistol Whip itself is fine. Make it stronger you are basically back at spamming sword 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2 ... no one likes to fight against that and no one want's to play that for more than 5 minutes.

> >

>

> It's still more engaging than heartseeker spam

 

Unfortunately that's a common issue among most of thief's weapon kit's.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Pw dps is fine for what it does, more damage would lead to a nerf in other aspects of the skill. A better example of thief skills that need a damage buff are pulmonary impact and dagger autos as they are pathetic lol.

> Try necro dagger after feb 25th. That's pathetic! It's slower and deals less damage than the teef dagger because necro has less trait multipliers. So it's all relative...

>

> @topic:

> Pistol Whip itself is fine. Make it stronger you are basically back at spamming sword 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 3, 2 ... no one likes to fight against that and no one want's to play that for more than 5 minutes.

>

 

So improve necro dagger when shroud regen is reduced, all good :).pw should just have that one extra ini cost reverted to what it was. Skills so loaded as is I'd have to be redesigned to be able to excel at any one thing further.

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I wasn't blowing cooldowns offensively in that matchup. You have absolutely 0 idea what you're talking about. That video you posted is hilariously bad btw.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Read it again, but slowly

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You're one to talk, dude who got carried by his pet and didnt dodge any of the holo's skills

> > > > > > > Seriously dude learn to play. No dodges no heals and you last over a minute. Any other class would have destroyed you in less than 10s.

> > > > > > > also :

> > > > > > > 

> > > > > > > This is the damage the elite of the tiger does to you and you are running a weird glass build with no damage, vitality or toughness. Seriously you should learn to play.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > you mean 4,7k dmg to a scrapper with 3,3k toughness ? light armor with no toughness would have taken almost 10k :D

> > > > > Do you mean :

> > > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > > 3k power, **berserkers amulet**. Please tell me more about how power builds should deal with this. 3.3k armor+perma protection for the ranger, who only needs to press 1 and kite to win. So is the solution to core ranger that you should only fight them with condi builds? lmao

> > > > >

> > > > > That's 0 toughness. That dude has no toughness at all whatsoever. To a tanky target it would not reach 2K. Do please bother to read the thread at least before writing no sense.

> > > >

> > > > my bad, didnt pay attention

> > > In case people are blind, ranger isnt running MS nor does know how to maul before F2, heh

> >

> > I know that pets can hit for 10-15k, doesnt excuse me from reading poorly, this is preety much 2 troll builds fighting eachother not much to gauge from that

>

> Pets could hit 10k in 2013. They were nerfed then. They can't hit that high now.

 

Wrong! I got hit for 11k by a gazelle last week so saying pets can't do 10k is strait up bs. Yes I was playing a squishy thief with 16k hp but 11k is 11k

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > I honestly won't be surprised if rev is made unplayable, because of how many people QQ about it.. Even though its NOT that strong. Nor was Power herald or power rev, but since the QQ is up it will get nerfed into the ground at some point.

> >

> > Condi rev will prob get shaved by general condi shaves across the board, I doubt they'll nerf power rev any further. Its powerful and harder to play, how it should be unlike braindead condi spam builds and super tank core necros that are being spammed at the moment.

> Condi Rev torment application is absolutely bananas. In wvw I stacked 40 torment on a player and they walked two seconds and instantly died. Embrace the Darkness is kind of busted.

>

 

Yeah that and burns on some classes are a bit much, I'm sure they will get addressed at some point.

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> I honestly won't be surprised if rev is made unplayable, because of how many people QQ about it.. Even though its NOT that strong. Nor was Power herald or power rev, but since the QQ is up it will get nerfed into the ground at some point.

 

Condi rev will prob get shaved by general condi shaves across the board, I doubt they'll nerf power rev any further. Its powerful and harder to play, how it should be unlike braindead condi spam builds and super tank core necros that are being spammed at the moment.

I love how necro mains perceive any nerf to a overperforming aspect of their class automatically means their a punching bag again or their being deleted lol. Players are just asking for shroud regen be shaved a bit so the necro player just cant servive a 2v1 for over a minute while watching youtube vids by timing their shroud lol. In necro players defense tho guess anets record of how the do nerfs would raise some worry for sure lol.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > What should be checked is:

> > >

> > > Ranger pet damage, maybe a few traits like protection of 2 seconds at the end of evade to 1 second instead.

> > >

> > > Revenant Mallyx Facet true nature radius too big, Infuse Light duration needs a nerf to 2 seconds while base healing an increase, some facets also need a cooldown decrease, Chaos to 20 and Darkness to 20 as well.

> > >

> > > Guardian Burning is too high (Basically the same before patch aside no expertise) and Symbol duration is too long and carries any builds.

> > >

> > > Necromancer Unholy Sanctuary ICD and maybe more small Life Force generation nerfs.

> > >

> > > Engineer Mortar dodged the first patch and should be changed accordingly as well as Flash Shell, it keeps carrying every builds.

> > >

> > > Thief blind spam and some of the stolen skills like Essence Sap. Perhaps finally nerf stealth by adding reveal before people can burst and make stealth attacks actually avoidable. Also fix Steal being usable while stunned, it's not a stunbreak and it shouldn't be usable, Smoke Screen duration is too high at 7 seconds and should be 5.

> > >

> > > Warrior Bow burst on knights with Axe/Warhorn is like Ranger, except the problem is the lack of requirement for hitting someone with the bow burst skill, giving permanent Adrenal Health but also keep decent damage because Axe is bonkers with or without ferocity.

> > >

> > > Mesmer as Chrono needs their Shatter 4 have the same cooldown as the core, otherwise I can't think of much. Perhaps too much easy boon rip on mirage that should be checked. Core is fine, can't see much wrong.

> > >

> > > Elementalist has an obvious problem with Lighting Rod. Should lose the ability to crit.

> > >

> >

> > This guy just said Warrior Longbow needs a nerf.

> >

> > nuff said

> He want boonstrip on mesmer to be nerfed because resistance spam doesnt work so well vs "new" condi mirage that slot power traitline.

> Complaining about warrior proc'ing AH/cleanse ire so they live way longer vs his condi rev.

> Basically, nerf what gives me trouble, its unfair and buff herald! 2-3 heralds every game is fine ! (if you dont agree you will be reported for "offtopic" lul)

 

This 90% of nerf posting these forums.

> @"ArcanistSeven.8720" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Watch noody's newest stream lol. He says "man what a class" like 3 or 4 times in first 2 pvp matches cuz there were 2 decent side noders that sat on each side node that he couldn't challenge and 3 mid destroying his team so he kept feeling useless cuz his team would feed mid and hes get destroyed if he tried to help. Both games went like this, granted his teams wernt doing great but was funny seeing him running from every 1v1 basically and even +1 wasn't super effective. All he could do was nothing lol. Then u got sind who stated thief's burst was to low even to be effective in +1'ing whether its sustains to high, thief's burst to low or a bit of both. Then u got vallun saying thief can get easy +1 kills if he fights the exact right situations and the community of thief haters start spouting thief's fine cuz vallun said thief gets easy kills lol.

> > Good stuff. class is gbage right now, no class should just be a runner. This thief cant have burst is bs, high mobile low hp/armor classes should be ALL about the high burst and run playstyle. Guards are limited to gbage dos because the have a ton of blocks, invulnerability etc, all classes can and do usually excel at multiple things in gw2, that's sorta the games thing and thief shouldn't be single out from that just because it's a annoying design for some.

>

> re-roll to rev its the new thief

 

Already did, started doing ranked solo q last night and went 5 wins 2 losses. Happy with rev so far as it seems effective but harder to play.

Wow all revs unanimously stated negative thoughts about cor, not cuz its weak but because of the skills poor function. Anet don't u think if all ur paying customers on a class are telling u every patch that a skill on a commonly used weapon is performing poorly an a mechanical level basically every patch that maybe it's time to actually fix it or change it so it functions properly?

I mean uve got the feedback.

Yes pls, this is very thought out and creative. Great job!

Because of what's stated above sadly anet team will never implement this, thank u for the fantasy tho lol

Watch noody's newest stream lol. He says "man what a class" like 3 or 4 times in first 2 pvp matches cuz there were 2 decent side noders that sat on each side node that he couldn't challenge and 3 mid destroying his team so he kept feeling useless cuz his team would feed mid and hes get destroyed if he tried to help. Both games went like this, granted his teams wernt doing great but was funny seeing him running from every 1v1 basically and even +1 wasn't super effective. All he could do was nothing lol. Then u got sind who stated thief's burst was to low even to be effective in +1'ing whether its sustains to high, thief's burst to low or a bit of both. Then u got vallun saying thief can get easy +1 kills if he fights the exact right situations and the community of thief haters start spouting thief's fine cuz vallun said thief gets easy kills lol.

Good stuff. class is gbage right now, no class should just be a runner. This thief cant have burst is bs, high mobile low hp/armor classes should be ALL about the high burst and run playstyle. Guards are limited to gbage dos because the have a ton of blocks, invulnerability etc, all classes can and do usually excel at multiple things in gw2, that's sorta the games thing and thief shouldn't be single out from that just because it's a annoying design for some.

> @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > This guy just said Warrior Longbow needs a nerf.

> > >

> > > nuff said

> >

> > You have no idea how exploitative Combustive Shot is with any adrenaline traits. Also Bow is not bad, this isn't a nerf but an inconsistent mechanic fix. Bow is good as Power or Condi.

>

> Just tried a few games maximizing damage with bow, it's a meme build TBH. It can't do enough damage or burst to compete with other ranged classes, unless people feel like standing inside the burning field. The Combustive Shot burn damage is alright, but outside of that it lacks damage and utility. I ended up using Rampage to deal any sort of focused single target damage anyway. Not sure why this would need the attention of the devs?

 

Lol war bow is gbage, skill doesnt even suit a warrior class on top of being ineffective.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> atleast 2 necro 2 burn guard 2 ranger every match

> because these three are the most effective with least effort.

 

This is exactly why. Power haralds known to be very powerful as well but i rarely see them, not cuz their bad but cuz it's hard build to play. Everyone bandwagons to the most braindead cheese builds, like they dont care what their playing or if it's fun to play just as long as its effective.

> @"darren.1064" said:

> I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

>

> During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:

> * 1. **Elementalist** - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease

> * 2. **Necromancer** - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1

> * 3. **Mesmer** - Because the massive nerf _ finally_ hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable

> * 4. **Ranger** - I don't think I even need to talk about this class

> * 5. **Engineer** - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1

> * 6. **Thief** - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable

> * 7. **Guardian** - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP

> * 8. **Warrior** - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills

> * 9. **Revenant** - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

>

> None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously

> **A**: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.

> **B**: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

>

> The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

>

> I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

 

Yeah pretty much, teams wrecking the game just as the past teams did. This is one community where the team would be far better off as well as the game if they literally ignored forums etc and just went of high lv game play, the community isn't smart enough to know the difference between annoying and op and on top are vindictive and enjoy getting their counter classes ruined regardless of how it effects all the players that enjoy it. Community deserves the game as it is cuz they helped mold it,most not all.

> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has significantly more stealth access and mobility than Ranger does so in many ways it has much higher survivability if you know what your doing.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Not really. If youre playing Deadeye and anyone jumps on you, unless youve got enough initiative to shortbow out, youre dead. Ranger can survive long enough to get its mobility up. Stealth is pretty useless for survivability, especially at range (Where a lot of skills just keep tracking through stealth). And Ranger has about 50% extra range. It has lower survivability.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ranger on the other hand will do more damage and hit more targets if you also know what you're doing.

> > > > > > > > > > > Quite easy to clear a camp alone with just a few skills if you line the enemies up, and if you're running with a zertg it's very easy to get a lot of loot and kills while staying on the back line.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You dont even have to know what youre doing, youre always going to do more damage. Even in the off-chance that the enemies are bad enough to be hit by Death's Judgment.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I've never played Deadeye in WvW myself but I have fought a number of them and they can be exceptionally annoying to fight.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Annoying is not effective. Theyre annoying because they usually just poke you once or twice, and once they see that youre good enough to dodge DJs and as a result a guaranteed loss, they just run away.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > First of all if you dont know something dont try to push like its real .

> > > > > > > > > THE auto attack is an Arc attack like Treb .... and you gain increased range if you are on a Keep

> > > > > > > > > The channeling and any other is straight shoot...they dont benefit from the height you are casting them

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I guess we can add "Ranger" to the list of things you clearly dont know anything about. Every single longbow skill on the ranger that uses a projectile travels in an arc. Including Rapid Fire. Kinda embarassing that you dont even know your own main.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If the ranger specs for survibility , and the per is the one to do the dps ...it has the worst pathfind and you can kite/slow it it behind a rock while you shoot the the Ranger .

> > > > > > > > > In order the Ranger to do max damage he must be berseker , which has far less survibility .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Same for the Deadeye. Except, Ranger can actually get decent survivability while maintaining incredible damage. Deadeye cant. Deadeye cant even get as good damage if they go full damage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The Deadeye can shoot a 2 sc immobilize and use the Quickness Grandmaster trait to connect his DJ .

> > > > > > > > > Otherwise he can spamm the Three Round Burst and use the dodge/stealth + Shadowstep to run away

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Well, guess Deadeye is on the "list of things you know nothing about". Not surprising. The quickness grandmaster trait doesnt last long enough to set up a DJ that isnt at low malice. It also doesnt really help that much, DJ is still too telegraphed for any half-decent enemy to be hit by it. Which is why Deadeyes dont use BQoBK. They use Malificent 7. They also dont use Spotters shot and *especially* dont use Three Round Burst. You only use Skirmishers shot. So, wrong on everything as usual.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Only the auto attack is an arc , the rest is straight

> > > > > > > Show me a video

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) Ranger is in the open spot , he cannot stealth . You now where he is .

> > > > > > > And the major attacks are 2 Rapid fire + Maul , which has cd

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3)You can Mark him > >immbobilize him > 3 round burst smapp > dodge/.stealth > immobiliz > DJ

> > > > > > > The majority of the damage will be done by the quickneess + spamm round burst

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Deadeye has significantly more stealth access and mobility than Ranger does so in many ways it has much higher survivability if you know what your doing.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Not really. If youre playing Deadeye and anyone jumps on you, unless youve got enough initiative to shortbow out, youre dead. Ranger can survive long enough to get its mobility up. Stealth is pretty useless for survivability, especially at range (Where a lot of skills just keep tracking through stealth). And Ranger has about 50% extra range. It has lower survivability.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Ranger on the other hand will do more damage and hit more targets if you also know what you're doing.

> > > > > > > > > > > Quite easy to clear a camp alone with just a few skills if you line the enemies up, and if you're running with a zertg it's very easy to get a lot of loot and kills while staying on the back line.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You dont even have to know what youre doing, youre always going to do more damage. Even in the off-chance that the enemies are bad enough to be hit by Death's Judgment.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I've never played Deadeye in WvW myself but I have fought a number of them and they can be exceptionally annoying to fight.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Annoying is not effective. Theyre annoying because they usually just poke you once or twice, and once they see that youre good enough to dodge DJs and as a result a guaranteed loss, they just run away.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > First of all if you dont know something dont try to push like its real .

> > > > > > > > > THE auto attack is an Arc attack like Treb .... and you gain increased range if you are on a Keep

> > > > > > > > > The channeling and any other is straight shoot...they dont benefit from the height you are casting them

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I guess we can add "Ranger" to the list of things you clearly dont know anything about. Every single longbow skill on the ranger that uses a projectile travels in an arc. Including Rapid Fire. Kinda embarassing that you dont even know your own main.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If the ranger specs for survibility , and the per is the one to do the dps ...it has the worst pathfind and you can kite/slow it it behind a rock while you shoot the the Ranger .

> > > > > > > > > In order the Ranger to do max damage he must be berseker , which has far less survibility .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Same for the Deadeye. Except, Ranger can actually get decent survivability while maintaining incredible damage. Deadeye cant. Deadeye cant even get as good damage if they go full damage.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The Deadeye can shoot a 2 sc immobilize and use the Quickness Grandmaster trait to connect his DJ .

> > > > > > > > > Otherwise he can spamm the Three Round Burst and use the dodge/stealth + Shadowstep to run away

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Well, guess Deadeye is on the "list of things you know nothing about". Not surprising. The quickness grandmaster trait doesnt last long enough to set up a DJ that isnt at low malice. It also doesnt really help that much, DJ is still too telegraphed for any half-decent enemy to be hit by it. Which is why Deadeyes dont use BQoBK. They use Malificent 7. They also dont use Spotters shot and *especially* dont use Three Round Burst. You only use Skirmishers shot. So, wrong on everything as usual.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Only the auto attack is an arc , the rest is straight

> > > > > > > Show me a video

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Wrong](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire) [on](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Shot) [all accounts](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Point-Blank_Shot). Again, its embarassing that I, someone who mostly played shortbow ranger, knows Ranger better than you, a Ranger onetrick.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) Ranger is in the open spot , he cannot stealth . You now where he is .

> > > > > > > And the major attacks are 2 Rapid fire + Maul , which has cd

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You also know where the Deadeye is when he stealths. The stealth doesnt last long either. Difference is, the Ranger can take hits fairly well. The Deadeye cant take em at all. Youd know that if you had any clue about Deadeye or Ranger.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3)You can Mark him > >immbobilize him > 3 round burst smapp > dodge/.stealth > immobiliz > DJ

> > > > > > > The majority of the damage will be done by the quickneess + spamm round burst

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, Im not gonna waste time repeating myself. Youre simply wrong, as you inevitably always are. But as I said. Deadeyes dont use Three Round Burst. It does a lot less damage than Skirmishers Shot. They also dont use BQoBK. Its a lot worse than Maleficent Seven.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1 ) Mister ... 28 August of 2018 ,test it yourself and not hear inacurracy .

> > > > > Go in the PvP area > go in the golems > go in the stair> shoot the golem.

> > > > > See which attack does an Arc and which goes dianogicly down

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I tested it myself. Its exactly as the wiki says. All of the projectile skills hit beyond their supposed "max range". How about you test it yourself? I know you really hate learning or the truth, but just this once, you should try.

> > > >

> > > > > 2) see the valun video in the PvP area . Where he used Dodge + stealth to reposition himself and the enemy doesnt know eher you are

> > > > > Or watch any streamer

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I already explained to you why they know where you are. I also explained to you why thieves dont use in-combat stealth. You just refuse to learn.

> > > >

> > > > > 3) They dont use 3 round burst ? Go watch some stream . What tghey do ? Auto attack and DJ occasioanlly ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Correct, they do not. You know why? Because it requires you to kneel (which is really unsafe) and still does *less damage than Skirmishers Shot*. So, what do they do? Well, spam Skirmishers shot. I already told you that. You just refuse to learn.

> > >

> > > 1) Nope, show me a video

> > > Instal OCB and show up in which angle and range they do

> > > You are the the theorycraft guy

> > >

> >

> > Too much effort. You can test it yourself. Or just watch [this](

) video. I dont expect you to learn though. You have clearly shown yourself to refuse to learn.

> >

> > > 2)I see streamer to use stealth + dodge to repotition themselves and avoid danger .

> > > The victim dont know if he went left or right

> > > See the Valun video in the pvp./Or see some stream

> > >

> >

> > If played correctly you do know that they cant be left or right. But I have already explained that. You refused to learn. You will refuse to learn once more.

> >

> > > 3) Kneel gives you inceased range + it has the Immobilize . And you can do dodge stealth while kneeled

> > > Kneel inlocthe ability to use a prejectile block to deflect range attacks . Which Ranger dont have

> >

> > The immobilise loses too much damage. Kneels range is worthless since you cant move. The enemy will just move out of range. The correct way to play is to never kneel. You refuse to learn.

>

>

> 1) I have watched the video ? So Show me that all Ranger attacks have an Arc animation and benefit when you are ontop of a Keep for extra range .

> Otherwise we must decide that Kneel offer more range . While the opinio you gave to that person (that rangers have 505 more range) is false

>

> 2) You will be ontop the Black Powder . So you are retected while you are stealthing

>

> 3) With 1800 the enemy cant escape , if they try you can stop kneeling and hunt them

If u dont know about the arcing effect of projectiles like that of arrows increasing lb range which bullets are not so lucky than u havent learned much about the game. People have gotten up to 2000 range with high elevation but 1800 is the common average. It only takes some playtime on each in ow or wvw setting to realise this. Go to wvw sit on a keep and kneel and fire than use ranger long bow and do the same,get higher range and no need to be hampered by kneel mechanic :)

 

 

> @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > > Thief (or most often daredevil) can down me while the thief survives with maybe 70-80% hp as a Spellbreaker Warrior with greatsword and dagger+shield. I can last for a while, that's not an issue, but the issue comes when actually trying to deal any sort of relevant damage. There's only so many stunbreaks I have access to. Right now my tactic is to wait out the initial burst with shield block (the one that blinks all over the place), dodge the clearly telegraphed beyblade and so on, and land a Bull's Charge 2s stun on the thief in between all these evade frames and invisibility, but it gets cleansed instantly and the thief just resets the fight and it starts all over again while I don't have my defensive CDs back yet.

> > >

> > > How the hell am I supposed to compete with all the stuns, blinds, dodges, evades and stealth fight resets when I either can't hit the thief or see him? In team fights I just slice them in half in a matter of seconds, but that's not what I want to know.

> >

> > Uh, this fight should be incredibly free for you. You do a lot more damage to them than they do to you, and you have a lot more survivabiltiy and CC than they do. You should note what kind of thief were talking about, though. If its D/P, just stun them and wail on them. Theyll have to burn a stunbreak or they die, and if they do, they cant fight you because your stuns have lower cooldowns than their stunbreaks. If theyre S/D, dodge Larcenous strike (the followup to the side-ways evade) and push them towards their infiltrators strike spot, that way their positioning is completely messed up. If its staff, dodge vault and the build is useless.

> >

> > Anyway, for the most part its just, hit them and use your defenses well? If you do that, the thief has absolutely no way of killing you. All they can (and will) do is run away.

>

> I'll admit, most thieves just let me hit them. But that's more a concern for them, not skillful counterplay on my part. I'm not sure which spec it is that I have a problem with, but it's daredevil and they use lots of cc, evades and restealth a lot.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I play a lot of both and have been on both sides many many times. On dp thief if the warrior doesn't no thiefs skills,rotations and the playstyle I can usually get the down with little pressure by blinding with black powder,using the smoke fields and by going in and out of stealth followed by backstabs. I find keeping my distance and timing my black powders so war isn't in melee distance for long without being blinded. As a warrior shield bash timed right or bulls charge are usually enough with 100 blades and f1. Dont use both SB and BS close together as the thief will predict what ur trying to do. Try and shield bash or BS during a thiefs aftercast, when I find I catch and get caught the most. Axe mh destroys thiefs quick whereas dagger mh bates out stunbreaks easier.

> > It's hard to say a definitive method as sometimes on thief I meet wars who I cant dent and wreck me and others I can delete using blinds and barely get touched. Same for warrior, sometimes catch damaged thief with axe 3 and that's all it took or catch them with hard cc and if thier stunbreaks are used the one burst downs them. For warrior each thief build takes different approach tho, lately been only touching dp.

>

> Good point, I need to time my shield stun better and expect it to get cleansed. Since you play both, is it better to use dagger+shield until I know for sure I can get a Bull's Charge stun in?

>

>

>

> > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > I fought a spellbreaker yesterday that made great use of magebane tether to reveal me and pull me close for bursts. In general, you have waaaaaay more burst (adrenaline spending) skills than I do stunbreaks, and your sustain is bound up in that too. Remember that full counter will apply the tether if it hits, and it has a reasonable range on it as well. Something he did was use the dagger F1 in the area where I was after I had stealthed; thieves are unlikely to dodge in stealth, meaning I often got hit by it and revealed by the tether. He then ran in the opposite direction to pull me, and then he burst. If you're weird like me and tend to run tanky thief builds, it's a battle of attrition in both directions, if the thief is glass you just need to keep track of their stunbreaks, play defensively and use magebane to force them to burn them and go ham when you know they can't break out of it.

> >

> > Happy hunting ^^

> >

> > PS; if they are doing the whirl from the stolen item (looks more yellow than daggerstorm), they are reflecting projectiles but aren't evading. That's a good opportunity to use full counter to tether them, and because of the range they probably won't dodge it in time.

>

> The problem isn't that I don't have burst, I sure have it in my toolkit, but it's that I don't hit the thief enough that I charge my adrenaline bar in order to tether. So maybe focusing on using dagger would be better to get quick hits in, in between all the evasive action. How many stun breaks does a daredevil have?

>

> Thanks!

 

Thing is even with war axe nerfs a squishy like thief the vuln from axe 2 and a axe3 when thief is low can be very punishing especially when they try to keep distance from u. Ull have a easier time baiting out the stunbreaks with dagger as ull have 4 easy stuns, dagger,bash, fullcounter and bulls. I try and bait them out with danger and fc, bash and bulls are the two I try and burst after especially bulls. If u use. Thief dependent on build usually atleast has shadow step and now blinding powder is a stunbreak to and common on pd builds and some DE.