Psycoprophet.8107

Ok thanks guys thought I'd ask people first so i don't waste my time lol

> @"ens.9854" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lmao yes nerf non damaging condis, those are whsts wrecking people fast. Not only leave damaging conditions like burning 4-5k tic damage but shave cleanses, 4head

>

> Do you really believe we need MORE cleansing in the game like OP suggests? Then we will be back to condi players whining that their damage can be completely invalidated. The idea is to undo the creep that has already occurred.

No cleanse is fine, we need the damage per tic lowered on some conditions like burning and we'd be ok. Condis should cause its dps over time, not tic for burst lv dps over time, it absurd what burning dots do right now as a example.

> @"ens.9854" said:

> The whole discussion is bizarre to me. The reason we have cleanse meta is not because of bleed/burn/torment/poison. Nobody would complain if that's all they had to deal with. Its because condi builds absolutely vomit every other nondamaging condition on top of those (with extra duration often) and make the game MISERABLE to play and damaging condis a die roll to cleanse, unless you cleanse massive amounts.

>

> Nuke nondamaging condi application from orbit. Shave cleanses to a reasonable level.

Lmao yes nerf non damaging condis, those are whsts wrecking people fast. Not only leave damaging conditions like burning 4-5k tic damage but shave cleanses, 4head

I miss the days before warclaw. There was a feeling of dread when stepping out of ur camp that made it exciting in a way. Now just mount up and dodge odd spear and I'm good for dailies hunting with little worry, said the pve player.

People who complain about gankers are bad players.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> There is a simple answer to all this.

>

> Remove Downstate.

This ^ 0 hp means 0 hp. Or at least remove teamates ability to revive others in pvp modes. Necro revive assist could be changed to increase downed players self revive rate by 15% if in range. Teammates can still try and protect their aly while their self razing if they want.

Pve keep it who cares.

Gs for rev with flashy swordsman like technique or animation that I can pair with shiro-son combined with shiro's armor.

Thank you.

Rewarding good play and punishing bad play would be if a player downs a opponent while outnumbered not only does the downed player lose or have his downstate severely hampered but the outnumbered player gets their revive speed and revive heal amount significantly increased. Never happen though in carry wars 2 lol

If condi mirage was still a issue ud see one or 2 on each team guarentee'd like u are now with core necro,burn dh/guards, holos, ranger. Still see way more weavers than mirages. Tho fb fell off a tad.

Anet as usual goes opposite direction than most people who the game would have expected. Potential for high condi burst dps for shorter durations when condi heavy classes can continually apply said condi's or leaving duration or even increasing condi duration while lowering its dot damage. Which seems like a healthier version of damage OVER TIME during a massive patch aimed at lowering the games state of high damage lol.

Games got a real bright future.

I think condi duration is what took the biggest hit but when a class can constantly apply a condi like burning the patch did little especially when the tic dps of said condi is very high.

Holo or ranger as far as downing their opponent in the fight.

There are some bunker builds that can almost stall any one player till a teamate shows to +1 or 3v1 it making it seem like a godly in 1v1 lol.

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

> I did in wvw but before the energy up cost patch. Havent played since then

Poohness. Thought the assassin/demon mix would be a fun thematic pairing lol.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

> > >

> > > Archer in bdo?

> >

> > Ninja far closer to the thiefs archetype design, hows it designed? Oh top single target burst and bad support and team fighting, invisibility etc, sound familiar except top single target burst of course :)

>

> U said glassy but yeah ninja is probably closer to thief design. Best 1v1 class in bdo from what I’ve heard

It is, I've got a awakened ninja. Best 1v1 with top single target bursts. Garbage at pve farming cuz poor aoe's in comparison to other classes and only good at +1ing, ganking stragglers etc in big team fights during node wars etc..

Its op in 1v1 tho cuz a lot of iframe and has a grab which really strong in 1v1's.

They burst hard, have crazy mobility and can stay long in a fight cuz I frames. Their ability to stay in fight needs shaved.

To be fair to everyone that's complaining about thief here ninja and every other rogue like class gets these same complaints, go to any mmo forum and check out the complaints of rogue class and compare to amount regarding other classes lol.

Thing is this team is the only one that ive ever seen that has stripped the rogue like class of its burst potential or at least has it on the lv of tanks or in some cases lower, it's crazy. If thief needed shaves that's fine but after all is said and done a rogue like classes burst shouldn't be one of its weakness, that's craziness. Anets team needs to learn how to balance ITS rogue like in a way that keeps it feeling like the archetype that thiefs mains chose it for. High burst/mobility low hp/armor.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

>

> Archer in bdo?

Ninja far closer to the thiefs archetype design, hows it designed? Oh top single target burst, extremely good mobility and bad support and team fighting, invisibility and teleports etc, sound familiar except top single target burst of course :)

Has anyone made these two work well together?

So gaze of darkness only blinds opponents u revealed? I'm sure it wasn't like this back in the day when I messed around on rev.

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> Thief Profession certainly doesn't need buffs. Because at the moment, they still remain Toxic to the well being of the game balance and not matter how many 'nerfs' they received, they will always remain so. Having 8 years with a Toxic Bad Design Stealth Mechanic with other Toxic mechanics and unhealthy skills...something must be done.

>

> They simply need a complete Profession redesign either with a complete new stealth redesign and to make stealth mechanic accessible solely to them or to remove stealth completely from the game.

>

>

> Thief Profession had the potential of being a beautiful extraordinary unique Profession as Mesmer Profession in Guild Wars 1. Just as Mesmer Profession, Thief Profession had everything good coming for it with being the next Assassin Profession in Guild Wars 1 and Mesmer Profession being a continuation of Gwen honor and fond memory of saving Tyria....all were replace in the honor of Toxicity-

>

> **Guild Wars 1 message was clear**-

>

> 

>

>

>

>

> **Guild War 2 message to Thief Profession**-

>

> Being Flawless, Blameless, God-Like Image, Having Immunity To Escape Death, Having It All, With Perfection Are What Make You Beautiful

>

>

>

> =**The Death Of Thief Profession**-

They are not gonna give thief a redesign ever, if the made a thief without invisibility, shsdowsteps WITH returns etc it would be so similar to shiro rev I'd be redundant. As it stands I can attest power shiro feels like a better thief, yeah it's hard to do well on and takes some time on the build but I'm new on it and already feels more effective, hell even if the buff thief's burst I doubt I'll go back to the 2 button spam hit other 2 in niche circumstances that all thief weapons suffer from, its nice change having a rotation that requires most if not all my skills. Spamming same few got boring after all these yrs.

My luck shiro will have its burst nerfed again.

Name one class in any mmo that is baseline glassy archetype that doesn't do or isn't design with high burst along side its mobility?

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"GeneralFailure.3402" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.

> > > in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.

> >

> > Wouldn't that advantage of arriving earlier to +1 be offset by the lack of damage and thus longer fight while +1ing? When just running for decap or cap it is different story thief can be ultra fast.

> >

> > > Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.

> > > As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.

> > > You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

> >

> > I agree with this.

> > My POV. I started playing about month ago and picked thief as first class, because I like sneaky staby archetype. And I am in general fine with role of the decap guy and picking of enemies who are trying to disengage with low HP or are the squishier professions. However some builds/professions seems, dare I say, too tanky. At my lol noob skill level (silver), I have troubles with rangers, bc they have more HP, some sort of HP buffer, Block, evade, stealth and appareantly lot of cleanses. I cant even kite them properly bc they are rangers and all the time I am being hit by the pet. My only chance is to surprise them by playing P/D, not D/P like everybody and their dog, which confuses them so they forgot to push the healing button or whatever they have xD (as I said silver )

> >

> >

> >

>

> what I ment mostly is immagine 1v1 on far node, same build same skill players, they are in a stalemate.

> thief and rev races there, thief arrives 5s earlier, by the time rev is there, you didnt kill, you didnt do much damage, but your CC, boonrip and some dmg that you did forces enough cooldows that even if they turn and try to 2v2 they are at a disadvantage.

> You dont have to kill, sometimes all you need to do is scare enemy off from the point for 5s, let your ally cap/decap and leave them in the 1v1. Now the enemy is pressured to risk their lives to push them off in 1v1.

> You dont have to comit to fights all that much, you see someone vunerable? pressure, they fight back? good chance they burned important cooldowns, back off and go decap/cap. If you force ranger to use elite ( 60s cd ) and sicem ( 35s cd ) and all you do is sb5 away 2-3 times even tho you are then one to run away you actually won the exchange. If you are not fully commited to thief you might try power rev, their styles are close to one another.

What u just described sounds ridiculous though so a class with lowest hp/armor and great mobility should be delegated to a role of decapping and +1 engagements ur teamates are stale mating on and instead of the thief bursting the player down pretty quickly with ur teammate instead they should so very little burst damage but help with their cc etc, the same things another class could provide better as well as burst and sustained damage at a whole 3 secs later,cuz maps arnt that big in conquest and most classes have good to great mobility aside from necro.

Yeah sounds great for a low hp/armor class lol.

Theres a reason every class in every mmo that has low hp/armor is high burst AND mobility. Burst makes up for not having hp/armor to stay in fight for long,mobility to get to a fight fast or get out of fight fast.

The point of a highly mobile low sustain +1 class is to have a quick burst to burst the opponent down during the +1 engagement along side ur teamates. U joining ur teammate and +1'ing for them does little if it still takes forever, might as well just take few sec longer to get there and burst it down on another class that actually bursts while actually contributing other things.

A thief that uses his mobility to find +1's should bursting with their teamates to make quick work of them not oh here's our thief glad he helped poke my opponent with his toothpick, really helped.

Are u guys seriously trying to peg thief as a class not designed to be a high burst/mobility class?

I've never in 30 yrs gaming heard such a silly claim that a low health/armor class shouldn't have burst or sustain dps cuz it has mobility lol especially when its intended to quickly join and burst classes down that are otherwise engaged with ur teamates. Such a ludicrous claim is laughable.

All this really boils down to is oh no we dont want thief to do damage again and challenge us again,we want it to tickles us so we can get revenge on it for all the yrs we got out played by one lol.

> @"Raider.4283" said:

> Mobility doesnt mean much in PVP when you have unkillable opposition sat on nodes. This argument of mobility is so high that thief cant have damage is absured. Stealth doesnt mean unkillable, sneeze hard enough and the thief will be sat on the floor. Alot of L2P issues here.

This^ it's also like people are purposely forgetting while thief has top mobility a lot of other classes would rate as having great mobility all while excelling at multiple things. But we don't like thief so hold it to different set of standards and call it balance lol

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > > damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.

> > > > > > > in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.

> > > > > > > Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.

> > > > > > > As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.

> > > > > > > You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

> > > > >

> > > > > no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

> > > >

> > > > I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

> > >

> > > there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.

> > > as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

> >

> > Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

>

> no, it wouldnt. its hard to believe but there are builds out there that are not made of 50k+ hp and perma protection.

> I do play wizard mirage from time to time and let me tell you thief can still put some real hurt into me, if you buff thief so it can pressure those 50k hp necros or 20k HP perma prot knights holos then my poor mirage will be obliterated with no tell, no counterplay and no ability to fight back. Do you think others can hurt those classes? do you think I can on mesmer? I go full glass with illusion+dueling+mirage on wizard amulet ( its like maruders ), even if I land 80% of their skills they fully sustain through that.

> I will have less sustain then thief, less dodges, less mobility but I cant hurt them regardless. As it stands you sick OP holo against another OP holo and call it a day, and I dont think there is a single roaming spec that will actually down competent holo, only chase them off the node. Maybe full glass ranger could do it? im unsure.

Yeah it would! Thief shouldn't be in a state of not being able to down a majority of classes even if +1'ing in a reasonable time. Being able to down a couple glassy builds out of the whole roster because it excels in one thing mobility is not balanced wtf lol. Especially when half the classes share great mobility just not top like thief all while excelling at multiple things so. No one that isn't biased could say that sounds anything close to balanced lol.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"darren.1064" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > damage + mobility + no counterplay = bad time.

> > > > > in conquest every second counts, it doesnt matter that rev can deal more damage while they +1 if thief arrives 5s earlier and wins the fight on the sides already, most classes when pulled off get to be pulled off for a while and wont be able to fight back and have to wait to recover CD/health. sometimes shall push is all it takes.

> > > > > Now you gotta find those small pushes instead of traversing the map at the speed of light and booping bruisers for 60% hp from stealth.

> > > > > As it was said before, when holo/ranger/necro/rev and other bustaaad specs get some shaves thief will be fine, if you want to have different role learn different class.

> > > > > You dont see druids complaining they cant roam, necros that they cant stealth, its not their role.

> > > >

> > > > I'm really honored that you took the time out of your day to find the energy to comment on my post, but you haven't really contributed anything that I haven't already debunked already. Currently your +1 example doesn't even make sense because once again: "Thief doesn't do damage anymore."

> > >

> > > no, bad thiefs dont do damage anymore, the ones that took time to learn their class can still contribute

> >

> > I've gone top 100 multiple times and once again, i've been playing for years. Idk how many games I have but its in the thousands. I probably have more games on thief than you do overall. So please don't tell me that I'm a bad thief when I've put in years of learning to perfect the profession. I know every skill, trait, utility and elite. I kill streamers, I play in plat. This isn't a problem of bad thieves, this is a problem of all thieves. However, if other classes are allowed to be bad and still do damage: ranger, necro, guardian. Then why aren't thieves able to currently scavenge together a build? The entire thief thread is full of thieves asking if there's a single viable build to even play anymore. I doubt any other class currently has that problem. The answer to their question is no, thief has no viable build to play right now because people like you just complain that thief is still OP when it can't even do anything. So I would highly recommend that you do some introspection to become a better player and ask yourself what you can do better to kill thieves, and if you're feeling like you're still having trouble with thieves right now then oh buddy. I can promise you its not the thieves that are the problem but you yourself.

>

> there are people that played league longer then you played any game since you were born yet they are incapable of pushing past silver, time makes you play better only if you are capable of learning.

> as I said before, nerf broken bunker kitten and thief will be fine, what you lack right now is 2shoting people for free with no counterplay, too bad

Ur not wrong it is the the majority of classes being far to bunker post patch that is making thief feel as week as it does but that also makes the thief players quarry of feeling their bursts are to weak legitimate. Whether its thief's burst was hit to hard,sustain is to low or if it's a bit of both the results are the same regarding thief players issue. This is anet were talking about right? What if they don't go the route of shaving the sustain on these classes but go a different route than thief's bursts would need looked at regardless.

> @"Farout.8207" said:

> I have never be more against something. Just the other day I was defending a camp against three enemies. I downed one that was low from the guards pretty quick but his buddies had him right back up. Re-engaged and got another down and the exact same thing happened, his buddies got him right back up. At this point I've blown most of my cool downs and had to back off, so they went full offensive. I went down just as two allies showed up and finished them off. We ultimately won the fight but it was a fight I most likely could have won solo if not for the downed state mechanic. Down state just rewards bad players.

Look if ur skillful enough or out play ur opponent's in a outnumbered situation and are able to get downs eventhough the odds are against u there is no reason u shouldn't be rewarded by their teamates being able to constantly revive any downs making the outnumbered almost impossible. That's called being rewarded for good play-- anet balance philosophy right there.