Tyson.5160

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > So minor spoilers from the new episode.

> >

> >

>

> depends on what crystal magic actually entails. (is it a particular type of crystal or is it broader. and if the second, just how broad is it)

Well it could be prophecy(which could be an extension of crystal) and then you also have the fact that the Zephyrites use the powers that they recovered from Glint, including air, storm and sun. So where does fit in this whole scheme, I don’t know. I do hope the devs reveal what’s Kralkatorrik’s second sphere of influence is.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Dunno about the statue thing, but Zhaitan's certainly capable of corrupting the landscape and always has been from a lore perspective. The Art of Guild Wars 2 has a description of such: "The breath of the dragons exudes their essence, twisting creatures, landscapes, and all things caught in their exhalation into a mimicry of the dragon's power. For the undead dragon, Zhaitan, this means his minions and landscapes are images of decay, watery decomposition, undeath, swampy morass, sickness, and pestilence."

>

> If we take that, and divide into two spheres, I suppose decay, decomposition, and undeath can go under death, while the rest under others go under shadow? A morass by either definition doesn't really relate to death directly, and while sickness and pestilence can (such as some GW1 death magic skills), I could also see them relating to a more metaphysical perspective of shadow.

>

> I've recently been wondering if Primordus only took Plant and Shadow domains, since it seems Kralkatorrik only took Death and Mind (and Jormag tried to take plant and death, but didn't have enough, like Aurene not getting a lot of any). While we do have Death-Touched Destroyers in S3, they're depicted with being covered in shadows. And you can't really kill or unkill rock and lava.

>

> The oddity in that, though, would be how Mordremoth got death if Kralkatorrik already took it. :I

What I find interesting with Primordus is that he has death touched and vine touched destroyers, but he also has rotting destroyers too, the death and the rotting also give two slightly different damage auras. Death touch give a poison vulnerability debuff while the rotting gives off weaken poison and cripple debuff. Not sure if one is meant to represent shadow and the other death magic, I’m not too sure.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > Druids can stealth with celestial magic and core rangers with the longbow. So four professions, if we exclude elementalists self generating smoke fields. And weavers, guardians, mirages, necromancers, and revenant all have abilities classed as shadowsteps in their tooltops.

>

> You're way too caught up on mechanics.

>

>

> > I'm referring to the orrian weapons Zhaitan animated. The Carven Effigies of Joko. And the mixing of golemancy and necromancy.

> The Orrian weapons aren't animated with death magic. They're old Orrian magic, and we don't get any classification. Zhaitan just corrupted the pre-existing magic.

>

> Craven Effigies themselves were elementals and elementalists, no indication of death magic used really.

>

> And the whole "golemancy and necromancy is destined to meet" that Oola talks about was using a soul to power a golem. Again, that's not death magic.

After going through the personal story and the Orr maps recently, I’m beginning to wonder if Zhaitan was using Shadow magic to corrupt the god statues.

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> Well, I just read the wiki article on it and I stand corrected.

> There it says:

>

> "...."Due to Mordremoth's powers, it is often referred to as having an expansive body that stretches across the jungle, seen with the writhing vines in the depths of locations such as Verdant Brink. According to Canach and Trahearne, Mordremoth is the jungle itself, though this in actuality refers to the dragon's corruption. While Mordremoth is an entity of mind and dream, its physical, non-plant-like body is called the "Mouth of Mordremoth..."

>

> and

>

> "...Though its physical body can be destroyed, Mordremoth is capable of regrowing its body from its corruption and, if necessary, moving its mind to another connected host due to its power of mind and connection to the Dream. As Mordremoth has rapidly spread its corruption through the Heart of Maguuma and extended throughout Tyria, these proprerties made it essentially immortal..."

>

> I always just assumed the Mouth of Mordremoth was a dragon minion, as opposed to the embodiment of it. Similar to the Mouth of Zaithan, which was a seperate being altogether (even if controlled by the ED).

Much as Konig said, it’s reference several times in Path of Fire that the mouth of Mordremoth was the dragon’s physical body. You may also notice that the Season 1 finale showed a mouth similar to the mouth of Mordremoth as well.

Not to mention the mouth uses the same voice during the dragon stand meta as well.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Palawa Ignacious Joko is a ~600 year old narcessistic son of an Elonian diplomat who learned necromancy, and held both instructions on how to find a djinn that could grant any wish once per century, as well as scriptures of Abaddon in his youthful (pre-Turai) possession.

>

> Which of those two objects, if either, was used to assume his lichdom is unclear.

>

> > He's definitely unique. Not even Ziatan's Liches demonstrated Joko's ability to just pop back from the dead "like a demented jack-in-the-box," as Taimi put it.

>

> It's not that unique. Joko is not one-of-a-kind. Khilbron, The Hunter, and Fendi Nin were all capable of the exact same thing. Though Fendi Nin's capability was a bit weaker. Zoldark was also capable of this nigh-immortality, but utilized it on his minions rather than himself.

>

> Mazdak was also supposedly unkillable through lichdom, and required magic opposite of Zhaitan's that corrupted him to fell him (thusly, Caladbolg).

>

> Also: Zhaitan, not Ziatan.

>

> > there's an ancient inscription in Southern Elona that you can read in Guild Wars 1 which mentions Joko and just calls him a "raider."

>

> Likely just describing how he used hit-and-run kidnapping tactics to build up his army both times.

I thought it would be kinda neat if Joko became immortal by that wish granting Djinn from Gw1 that gave out a wish every 100 years. Kind of a be careful what you wish for when being granted the wish of immortality and watch your body becoming mummified and undead.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> If raids as they are, do not survive in GW2, then they will take a spot just like dungeons and become side content. The game as a whole might very well remain successful, as it has now.

I suspect this will be the final outcome. When Raids become this side content, then I think an easy mode will be created. Off the side of someone’s desk.

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> I thought so too at the very first moment. Especially because the magic looks blue, not green at all to me.

Yeah it was a blueish green, probably to be more distinguished from Zhaitan. If I recall from the machine cinematic, Zhaitan was a green while Mordremoth was a lime green.

I do wonder if Subject Alpha and Kudu’s monster were exposed to several different dragon energies at the same time. One should really ask the question if a human is placed in an arena and is shot by equal amounts of dragon energy from 4 different dragon sources, whose minion does it become?

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > I noticed a lot of the quotes from Ogden and the Pale Tree are before Sylvari were discovered to be dragon minions. It’s possible that Ogden has incorrect information and that the Pale Tree is an unreliable narrator, trying to still guard her secret. It would simplify the story though, if it’s because Sylvari are dragon minions, that they couldn’t be corrupted.

>

> Hence my addition of post-reveal that restates it from an Word of God (thus not unreliable narrator) source.

Sorry, I didn’t see the reference.

> "well, dragon minions can't be corrupted by other dragons except in xyz situations". .

I suspect this will be the result.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said:

> > Dragon Minions cannot be corrupted by other dragons. That's why the Sylvari are immune to Zhaitan's magic in Orr.

>

> But it was stated in-game that the immunity came from the Pale Tree's protection during Season 2, and this was **restated** in the promotions for Heart of Thorns as if to reaffirm any doubt that the prior statements were due to the unknown revelation:

>

>

>

> So request for clarify: Is the PoI article being retconned under the usual "what happens in-game take canonical precedence", or is the Points of Interest article incorrect/misleading and refers to something other than the immunity to dragon corruption the phrase was used for months prior?

>

> And how does Subject Alpha, Kudu's Monster, and Subject Beta, all of whom show multiple dragons' corruption, fit into this?

I noticed a lot of the quotes from Ogden and the Pale Tree are before Sylvari were discovered to be dragon minions. It’s possible that Ogden has incorrect information and that the Pale Tree is an unreliable narrator, trying to still guard her secret. It would simplify the story though, if it’s because Sylvari are dragon minions, that they couldn’t be corrupted.

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > According to the All and the vision from Omadd’s machine there has only been 6 Elder Dragons.

>

> Though there could be some lesser dragons out there, for all we know.

Oh sure, most definitely.

> @"Belishine.7493" said:

> so i have been doing this account of the dragons for some time now but im wondering how meny are left for us to get. so the first dragon is Zytan the necro dragon so that is one down. we then went for Mordramoth that was hot stuff and our second dragon. now i think this is geting a bit mercy but we have Prymordus the dragon of fire and i cant tell if this is our third dragon or one that is comeing back later but we know of this one. I almost forgot about Jormag the ice dragon and that one we have not attacked yet but Brahm did so is that one counter or not i cant tell. in the story so far we have Krowkatorik the crystal dragon of branding and im gessing he is going to be our fourth to take down. so how meany more dragons are left for use to go after? I know we have a deep sea dragon but is thare any more then that one?

>

According to the All and the vision from Omadd’s machine there has only been 6 Elder Dragons.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Ronin.7381" said:

> > Nah, with how Primordus and Jormag were dealth with

> You mean not at all since they are both still alive with hordes of minions collecting magic to reawaken them?

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > The Charr Homelands are right beside the Far Shiverpeaks, if we do kill Kralk up there it could wake up Jormag, due to proximity.

> Sure, but that's an expansion to the far shiverpeaks, not the charr homelands. One season 4 sized map could cover basically all of the area we saw back in GW1.

Figuring that we got three Elona areas in one map for Jahai Bluffs. We could technically get the Charr homelands from gw1 in one map. I honestly didn’t ’t get the feeling that we will go after Jormag due to how connect he is to Primordus.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > Researching the elder Dragon's resting place could provide information about the nature of the Dragonbrand, especially why the branded area seems to begin only south of the mountains. Did Kralkatorrik soar and then dive, leading a large are uncorrupted?

> Kralkatorik seems to be able to turn that on or off. to some degree. Or perhaps it only activated after he had a moment to wake up fully.

>

> > @"Castigator.3470" said:

> >appropriate to an expansion

> For what reason would we need an expansion into charr lands?

> -Jormag is in the Far Shiverpeaks

> -Primordus is underground near the Ring of Fire

> -Bubbles is in the ocean's depths

The Charr Homelands are right beside the Far Shiverpeaks, if we do kill Kralk up there it could wake up Jormag, due to proximity.

Just had a quick question about Kralkatorrik based off of episode 5.

Glint revealed to the Commander that Kralkatorrik is Clairvoyant and has prophetic visions. As Mordremoth is the mind/plant dragon and Zhaitan the death/shadow dragon, is Kralkatorrik the Crystal/ clairvoyant dragon?

Great job by the way. Story has been top notch!

> @"Castigator.3470" said:

> > @"jimmy.9560" said:

> > the intention was for him to _be_ the replacement, no? like...that was the ENTIRE plan...to absorb the colossal amount of magic that is an elder dragon so he could be powerful enough to fight the other gods. otherwise he was just gallivanting around for no reason whatsoever.

>

> Not really, the replacement would need to stay on Tyria and absorb incoming magic. Balthazar wanted to go after the other gods, Tyria be damned.

Exactly. Balthazar was going to go after the gods after killing Kralkatorrik. This would then leave a large gap in the All for Tyria. Which would leave Tyria with nothing to regulate magic anymore. As Ogden said:

Ogden Stonehealer: Too much magic, and the world spins out of control. Too little, and it crumbles into darkness.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> So way back before they released, I think it was episode 2, Anet did a lot of subtle map updates across the game world. These updates included changing the areas around

> -The area where The Sandsweapt Isles are located

> -Adding new details around Ganadara

> -Adding new detials around Jahai

> -Changes to the area around the Southern Shiverpeaks

> -Changes to the area of the Charr homelands where Kralkatorik was sleeping back in Guild wars 1

>

> Given that the first four areas became maps.... there's a pretty high chance that the last map of this living world season will take place in the Charr Homelands area where KRalkatorik was sleeping.

>

> So you Charr fans, theres some content for you

You are probably correct. If we do end up killing Kralkatorrik, we could in the process wake up Jormag, kinda similar to Abaddon causing Primordus to wake up, which could in theory launch us into the Charr Homelands Far Shiverpeaks for Season 5.

If Aurene does come back because of Joko ability to not die, it would kind of give a reason for Joko to be killed in the first place.

I was also wondering about why they showed Glint’s body in this release. Was it for an oh cool factor or was it hinting at something else? Maybe Aurene reviving Glint or perhaps doing a mind transfer to her corpse using both her Mordremoth Zhaitan magic and maybe because of Joko? Maybe Aurene will return in Glint’s body and now we have a fair size dragon to take on Kralkatorrik’s magic.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > Well, someone is foreseeing things, anyway, based on what Ogden said. If not Glint, there's another prophet out there. Probably another of Kraalkatorik's line, considering it seems to run in the blood. Or crystals. Or whatever.

>

> There's more prophets in the GW lore than merely crystal dragons. There's plenty of fortune tellers (LEGIT ones at that), and multiple priests/priestesses in GW1 are given visions of the future by gods - Dwayna giving Meerak a vision of the Searing, Lyssa giving Kehanni a vision of Sunspears coming from Kourna through the old corsair tunnels.

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > So I posted this on an older topic, with the discovery that Kralkatorrik also has prophetic visions, is that his second magical sphere of influence? Seems to be an ability only native to Kralkatorrik and his kin.

>

> I'm still convinced the second sphere is sky or air. I think prophecy might just be a part of the crystal domain, given that crystals are used for changing perspective and multiplying views. On top of crystal balls as Eekasquak said.

>

> On top of that, however, the line by Glint doesn't necessarily mean Kralkatorrik literally prophecized a world without him. The Commander says such, but honestly, "Kralkatorrik foresaw a world at peace between mortal and dragon" doesn't really sound prophetic to me, it sounds akin to Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech. That Kralkatorrik realized the possibility of such a world, and worked against it.

>

> Crystal - and prophecy - has always felt far too niche of a domain to me, compared to the capabilities and broadness of things like death and mind.

The journal itself does state Kralkatorrik had a prophecy.

Crystal Dragon

I went over the plan of attack and did what I could to reassure our gathered forces that we had Kralkatorrik's own prophecy — his vision of a world without him — on our side.

Scion and Champion

Glint then revealed Kralkatorrik's greatest secret: in a vision, he had foreseen a world without him, a world at peace. And it had terrified him.

I believe it was a bit wishy washy in the first mission dialogue, but was further stated in the speech of the final mission.

I do admit that this ability could be linked to the Crystal sphere. If Kralkatorrik is defeated in the next episode, I hope this second sphere of influence isn’t glossed over.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Did we see any use of Mordremoth's magic?

Just from the Inquest research at Sandswept.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > Hopefully getting back to decent heroic fantasy without having a silly dragon pet interfering with the plot. Ive wanted her dead since the destroyers invaded the egg chamber. It has been a long pay off...

> >

> > We got it ... you didn't like Aurene at all ... Fine

> >

> > What annoys me : they build the entire story around that character for months or even years and now they just "delete" or "destroy" all their story logic by just a making Kralk feint he was almost dead and killing aurene in the processe with an extraordinary regain of power at the last second ... I mean ... it came from nowhere.

> >

> > The entire episode was great... just that right moment was rushed for me and makes almost no sense in term of story writting or even logic.

> >

> > As if story writters were in a competition to know which one will get the most dramatic (and useless) death in their story episode .

> >

> > I don't mind killing important characters but when it makes some sense in the lore at least. HEre it felt almost like you wanted to make something BIG and you were saying like "let's throw the past 10 months of the story away and start something new" with almost no link in between.

> >

> > I'm really dissappointed in the way the things were handled. And that cliffhanger ... plz this is not even a good end for a poor soap on netflix ... feels unfinished and rushed.

>

> I don't disagree with those who find it distasteful in building her up for so long and investing so much into her and then throwing her away. But there are two points to bear in mind. Her death was heavily telegraphed, including actually showing it the previous episode. If people chose to believe something else, that's not a fault of Anets writing. Secondly, it seems clear this is not the end of her involvement or journey given the secret between her and Glint re; Ascension. Something will happen to either bring her back whole (and no lets not start the whole Joko thing please) or bring her back in a way that still keeps her relevant to the direction they have been going in.

>

> Players have cried out for genuine loss, a defeat.

>

I never quite understood this. I would considered the original attack on Lions Arch as a Loss, same the first assault with the pact on Mordremoth. Then all the times we faught Balthazar and loss to him, including actually being killed.

Just had a quick question about Kralkatorrik based off of episode 5.

Glint revealed to the Commander that Kralkatorrik is Clairvoyant and has prophetic visions. As Mordremoth is the mind/plant dragon and Zhaitan the death/shadow dragon, is Kralkatorrik the Crystal/ clairvoyant dragon?

Great job by the way. Story has been top notch!

> @"Arden.7480" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > > @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > > > Well... the ending was fully expected, really. I wasn't 100% sure they would kill her, but I wasn't exactly shocked either. The whole point of the bit in Episode 4 was to show that this outcome was inevitable. The fact that Glint was pushing her forward anyway meant that Glint had somehow seen past Aurene's death to a means of defeating Kraalkatorik. So, don't worry about Aurene. Give her a few days to get back on her feet.

> > >

> > > And did Glint forsee her death? I can't remember. Or did her visions just stop at a certain point and she reached the conclusion that she died? Because if she didn't forsee it and Aurene did, then perhaps that's a hint that she isn't finished yet, because she doesn't actually die?

> >

> >

> > Yeah, Glint didn’t see her own death. Not like Aurene did.

> >

> > Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.

> > Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.

> > Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.

> > Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.

> > Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?

> > Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

>

> Aurene foresaw only failures, no success.

>

> Kralkatorrik foresaw that there is a future where he is dead.

>

>

> ALSO HOLY kitten KRALKATORRIK CAN FORESEE THE FUTURE?!!!?!?!?!

>

> I thought Glint got this ability from the Forgotten... But Kralkatorrik is a prophet, so his other members of family get a partial amount of vision: Glint sees (sometimes) the prophecies blurly, Aurene in dark colors, and Kralkatorrik actually had this vision with the world without him...

>

> What a family..

>

Yeah, I’m gonna call it that prophecy is Kralkatorrik’s second sphere of influence. Anet hasn’t revealed anything and we potentially only have one more episode with Kralkatorik. They could also discuss it posthumous like they did Zhaitan.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I think we played very different episodes. This was a long way off being a masterpiece for me, in fact I'm astonished how poor it is. We had an episode which utilised fetch and carry stuff for gameplay in a map lacking much content and story.

>

> Compare this map to Jahai which was rich and varied, with lauded event chains which told many independent stories, which had fun and interesting gameplay before digging down into the collections. It had spectacular terrain unlike Thunderhead which is the epitome of bland.

>

> The first instance was a mess and all of a sudden everything has been prophecised and yet no one mentioned this before, in fact all indications set up quite the opppsite.

>

> Then having suddenly been able to fashion a large number of dragon slaying weapons n a forge suddenly everyone already knows about, we face down a Dragon stupid enough to mindlessly chase a baby dragon and get easily caught (it could have branded her with its breath instead of chasing). The fight itself was admittedly kind of cool though.

>

> Then we have the final cutscene. Now I'm rather glad she got killed given I think she's a plot problem, but they did at least manage to achieve an emotional response to her death within the community which achieved what they wanted. Plus we got the temporary major loss the plot so desp needed before we finally "win". Victory needs to come with costs and this was one of the few things they got right.

>

> But overall, I felt this was a severe drop in quality in a season largely on the up when u take out the Kourna fiasco. I appreciate a lot of people are positive about it all, but beyond the finale, I'm failing to see it and I view it as one of the weakest episodes since season 1

Just different opinions, I guess, some people apples, others like oranges. Doesn’t make anyone incorrect.

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > @"perilisk.1874" said:

> > Well... the ending was fully expected, really. I wasn't 100% sure they would kill her, but I wasn't exactly shocked either. The whole point of the bit in Episode 4 was to show that this outcome was inevitable. The fact that Glint was pushing her forward anyway meant that Glint had somehow seen past Aurene's death to a means of defeating Kraalkatorik. So, don't worry about Aurene. Give her a few days to get back on her feet.

>

> And did Glint forsee her death? I can't remember. Or did her visions just stop at a certain point and she reached the conclusion that she died? Because if she didn't forsee it and Aurene did, then perhaps that's a hint that she isn't finished yet, because she doesn't actually die?

Yeah, Glint didn’t see her own death. Not like Aurene did.

Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.

Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.

Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.

Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.

Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?

Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.