Tails.9372

> @"WhatLiesBeneath.9018" said:

> That will never happen, just saying.

I recall people saying the exact same thing about mounts.

> @"WhatLiesBeneath.9018" said:

> An Expansion is a big deal, not a side story.

That's not mutually exclusive.

It depends, many people ignore that an expansion doesn't necessarily have to be part of the main storyline. It's entirely possible that they release an expansion focused around a bigger side story which means that the main story going from S4 directly into S5 might not necessarily have to have an effect on the release date of the next expantion.

> @"Svennis.3852" said:

> make them see they are fallible and capable of being their own downfall

They already know, that's why they outsourced synergetics.

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling.

But leveling is like <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 0,0000001% of your overall playtime and you're better off using stuff like D/P or SB afterwards.

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

>you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload

Unload being balanced around might stacks is actually a bad thing for the weapon set overall because it means that youre still doing less damage than other weapon sets while also not profiting from the might provided by other classes.

It is easy to counter and most importantly has no sustain in PvP. I wouldn't call it bad outside of PvP but it has its issues in PvE. The damage of unload is ok-ish (dagger AA does more while not having any iniciative costs) but the main problem are the other skills. You're pretty much down one skill because vital shot is mostly redundant since you're going to use unload as your main source of damage and everything else suffers from synergy issues and unloads high initiative costs which becomes very apparent when you fight against anything were you have to break a break bar. Now compare this to D/P which does noticeably more damage while also having more synergy with / being able to use its utility skills without any major constraints and the issues should become rather apparent.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Nope, each weapon have a set of skills and that's all. MH skill or Off hand skills usually don't change based on which weapon you have on the other hand. P/P isn't a 2 handed weapon, it's a combination of 2 single handed weapon and as such each of these weapons have their own skill set that don't change based on what you equip on the other hand. **This is the core of the weapon skills system. **

Which doesn't work for this weapon set and people recognize this as a problem (hence the "all PP does is spamming 3" complaints). People have alwas used unload as a auto attack (the kind of AA that actually does a substantial amount of damage like the Double Strike chain) and there's no technical limmitation on how manny skills can be changed through dual wielding and depending on the weapon set they should chage as many skills as needed to make it a proper weapon set.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> You are ignoring ...

No I don't, I already addressed this in my previous posts.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> It is just impossible to consider _unload_ as a low cost spammable skill without serious nerf to the skill. You'd overflow with might, permanently being at 25 might stack without any investment in concentration or even trying to really play intelligently. The damage is also way above what similar skills do due to the sheer number of hit per second.

Might stacks are useless if the performance of the weapons set as a whole is underwhelming, like I said you can easiliy have 100% uptime for unload in PvE already but the DPS is still considerably lower than what power necro used to have before the buff. Also, everything that's even remotely similar how unload is used (since day one) has noticeably higher DPS even without might.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

>This is just unreasonable.

And yet I reason for it and you haven't to come up with anything which actually debunks the points I brought up. All you do is making unfounded claims like "unload is overperforming" and vague statements like "it isnt supposed to" instead of actually explaining why you think that removing the ini cost of unload is putting the performance of P/P "over the edge". You claim that I look at P/P "in a vacuum" and yet it is you who seems to overly fous on comparing single skills while ignoring the bigger picture.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Like I said you are not supposed to maintain _unload_. You are not supposed to sustain 25 might stacks with 0 investment or "player skill" while hitting your foe with a high number of hits per second.

It only hits the foe "with a high number of projectiles" if he lets himself get hit. Unload is very easy to play around precisely because of how the damage is spread between multiple hits which makes the skill bad vs. active defences which pretty much every class has in abundance.

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > Also, believe it or not, skills with initiative cost are not meant to be spammed

> > Which is why I said "make unload the baseline and go from there".

> >

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > this is simply not how thief is supposed to be played.

> > Thief already has weapon sets where the bulk of the damage comes from spamming the auto while the rest is being used for utility. Nothing new here.

>

> Good new that the pistol is different then, this add diversity.

There's no diversity when rifle is basically "the same thing but better in every way", having a heavily sustain oriented mid ranged build would actually add some diversity to the class.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> I'm affraid the game doesn't work like that. You just can't expect that equiping P/P will change all pistol skills, this would be ridiculous.

Except it does, 2H weapon sets already come with 5 tailor made skills which is why they usually don't suffer from the same synergy issues P/P does.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> for the sake of balance, ANet would probably remove the might proc and reduce the attack speed/number

No they don't, you're ignoring that unload is (as opposed to how it is for many other weapon sets) the only damage oriented skill this weapon set has and I wouldn't mind keeping it that way. Other classes have week autos because they get the bulk of their damage from other sorces and those who don't have autos which already out DPS unload. There's no point in toning unload down "for the sake of balance" unless you want to add´some big burst oriented weapons skills which I dont think they should do because rifle is alredy doing the "big damage spike" thing and if P/P needs one thing then it's to diferentiate itself from rifle (preferably by going for sustain over burst).

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Well, maybe because I know how to manage my initiative I can say that.

You can't maintain unload in PvP unless you play extremely passive which goes against the theme of the weapon set (not to mention that it's really ineffective and you're better off using rifle for this kind of gameplay). You can maintain it in PvE but like I said issue here isn't that you can't use unload but that the high ini cost of unload makes using any other weapon skill impractical.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> _Unload_ if used properly is usefull in any gamemode and at any level.

Everything is useful "to some degree" but there's a reason why you only see P/P thiefs in casual PvE. It's more of a gimmick anywhere else (one that can get you hate and kicked out of parties if you bring it to "high level play").

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Also, believe it or not, skills with initiative cost are not meant to be spammed

Which is why I said "make unload the baseline and go from there".

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> this is simply not how thief is supposed to be played.

Thief already has weapon sets where the bulk of the damage comes from spamming the auto while the rest is being used for utility. Nothing new here.

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > If you want relics and skins for sPvP / WvW then you better be fine with your special rewards being made available for them too.

>

> They can have the obsidian weapons for all I care.

Not just obsidian weapons, you guys are essentially asking for all non legendary fractal skins (+ more) so you should be fine with giving them all non legendary PvP skins.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Your argumentation is that there is a need for a rework of all skills but the dual skill, because a single build benefit more from this specific dual skill than the other skills. Build diversity, gameplay diversity. That's all it is about. A P/D thief will benefit from the auto attack and the skill#2. S/P and D/P will benefit from off hand pistol skills as well, don't look at things in the vacuum that P/P is.

My argument is to lower the ini cost of unload (or remove it completely) and **replace** the other skills of this weapon set with "4 new ones" for reasons stated above. And yes, I can look at it "in a vacuum" as you put it because other weapon sets like D/P would be unaffected by it.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> In the end, the only thing that your argumentation will unearth is issues with P/P dual skill overperforming which might lead to a nerf that you certainly don't want to see.

Overperforming? Have you ever even used unload outside a level 1-15 area? The skill in its current state is complete trash tier vs. other players and below average when it comes to PvE. Those who unironically claim that the skill is "overperforming" have no idea what they're talking about.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > Pistol / Pistol on thief.

> >

> > Unload is way to cost intensive and it could use a little bit more damage (PvE only), the other 4 skills need a complete rework (make unload weapon skill one and then go from there), the weapon set is currently outclassed by rifle in every way and it has severe sustain / synergy issues.

>

> Thiefs pistols #5 is one of the most usefull skills of the thief's weapon sets. Pistol #4 is a very good interrupt, maybe one of the best of the game since it's an istant interrupt. Pistol #2 lock your foe where it stand and increase incoming damage on it. AA isn't nearly as bad as it seem, it's even a bit stronger than the necromancer's non traited scepter AA.

And they're all pretty much useless for P/P thief at this point, vital shot is redundant because the basic function is already covered by unload, no need for a filler skill thief is not a cooldown based profession. Other pistol skills are more usefull for other thief builds were the main DPS comes from the auto, some skills could have some use but the strain unload puts on them is just to high for them to be practical. You'll never see a P/P thief bother with break bars from champs simply because by the moment you break them you'll be out of initiative and thus incapable of properly benefiting from their downtime, that's not the case for CD based professions because they don't have shared resources and builds were the main damage comes from the auto for obvious reasons. PvP has the same problem but on steroids, since your main source of damage comes from a skill with an ini cost of 6 (why A-Net, just why?) using any other skill will heavily cripple your ability to properly attack the enemy. The sustain on P/P is realy bad which just looks like a bad joke if you look at rifle and realise that it has much better sustain, more damage, better burst, better utility and more range.

At this point P/P could use 4 new skills to give the weapon set more focus / synergy and the ini cost of unload should definitely go down (or removed completely) in both PvE and PvP.

If you want relics and skins for sPvP / WvW then you better be fine with your special rewards being made available for them too.

"Deadeye" is a quite vague term to use. I'd say rifle is in a good position, P/P however is not.

Pistol / Pistol on thief.

Unload is way to cost intensive and it could use a little bit more damage (PvE only), the other 4 skills need a complete rework (make unload weapon skill one and then go from there), the weapon set is currently outclassed by rifle in every way and it has severe sustain / synergy issues.

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Elite specs are one of main expanion selling points. Why would they give it for free?

> > > > > > > > > > It's only free for those who played during the specific time window, everyone else has to buy the episode.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Somehow I feel majority of players will get them for free this way, making it big revenue loss :)

> > > > > > > > How is this a revenue loss? Additional e-specs would obviously come at the expense of some other stuff (although I wouldn't be sad about it if that means were dodging more map restricted gimmicks like the FTT system) and this doesn't prevent them from adding even more e-specs during the next expansion either.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Cause you don't pay for them.

> > > > > > But some people will and what's the argument here? Everything that isn't an expansion or gemstore shouldn't be made?

> > > > >

> > > > > Some against all. Hmmm... Thonk.

> > > > So you have no point then.

> > >

> > > I just destroyed yours, thank you.

> > ignoring ≠ destroying

> >

> > But keep trying. :)

>

> It would be a revenue loss. any current active player would get them for free, any person who isnt currently actively playing but does follow releases would get them for free. Only people who arent following releases, unable to actually play the game, or who start after the story is no longer avaialble would have to pay, so *some* of the player base. Versus *ALL* who buy the expansions, and considering theyve been a major selling point of the last two expansions i personally find it highly unlikely theyd consider even thinking of releasing them for free *At all*.

But this doesn't matter because they would have spent the resources to develop content for the LW regardless and like I said it doesn't prevent them from adding even more e-specs as part of the next expantion either.

From what I've seen it seems like most people are fine with this change (not here but in general).

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> edit: i guess they can rename the skill to super escape,

Impaling Lotus ++

> @"segman.3560" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > > > > Elite specs are one of main expanion selling points. Why would they give it for free?

> > > > > > > > It's only free for those who played during the specific time window, everyone else has to buy the episode.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Somehow I feel majority of players will get them for free this way, making it big revenue loss :)

> > > > > > How is this a revenue loss? Additional e-specs would obviously come at the expense of some other stuff (although I wouldn't be sad about it if that means were dodging more map restricted gimmicks like the FTT system) and this doesn't prevent them from adding even more e-specs during the next expansion either.

> > > > >

> > > > > Cause you don't pay for them.

> > > > But some people will and what's the argument here? Everything that isn't an expansion or gemstore shouldn't be made?

> > >

> > > Some against all. Hmmm... Thonk.

> > So you have no point then.

>

> I just destroyed yours, thank you.

ignoring ≠ destroying

But keep trying. :)

I want something like the ley-line tentacles from the sublime mistforged suit. C'mon A-Net we have like 10000 banners but not a single backpack that even looks remodely like them.

> @"segman.3560" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > > > Elite specs are one of main expanion selling points. Why would they give it for free?

> > > > > > It's only free for those who played during the specific time window, everyone else has to buy the episode.

> > > > >

> > > > > Somehow I feel majority of players will get them for free this way, making it big revenue loss :)

> > > > How is this a revenue loss? Additional e-specs would obviously come at the expense of some other stuff (although I wouldn't be sad about it if that means were dodging more map restricted gimmicks like the FTT system) and this doesn't prevent them from adding even more e-specs during the next expansion either.

> > >

> > > Cause you don't pay for them.

> > But some people will and what's the argument here? Everything that isn't an expansion or gemstore shouldn't be made?

>

> Some against all. Hmmm... Thonk.

So you have no point then.

> @"segman.3560" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > > > Elite specs are one of main expanion selling points. Why would they give it for free?

> > > > It's only free for those who played during the specific time window, everyone else has to buy the episode.

> > >

> > > Somehow I feel majority of players will get them for free this way, making it big revenue loss :)

> > How is this a revenue loss? Additional e-specs would obviously come at the expense of some other stuff (although I wouldn't be sad about it if that means were dodging more map restricted gimmicks like the FTT system) and this doesn't prevent them from adding even more e-specs during the next expansion either.

>

> Cause you don't pay for them.

But some people will and what's the argument here? Everything that isn't an expansion or gemstore shouldn't be made?

> @"segman.3560" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > Elite specs are one of main expanion selling points. Why would they give it for free?

> > It's only free for those who played during the specific time window, everyone else has to buy the episode.

>

> Somehow I feel majority of players will get them for free this way, making it big revenue loss :)

How is this a revenue loss? Additional e-specs would obviously come at the expense of some other stuff (although I wouldn't be sad about it if that means were dodging more map restricted gimmicks like the FTT system) and this doesn't prevent them from adding even more e-specs during the next expansion either.

Since there won't be an expansion I suppose S5 is going to be "core" content. I'd like the idea of core elite specs especially since they already said during the interview "LW can do anything an expansion can do" which of course would include adding more e-specs. They don't even need to bring new weapons to the table (this doesn't mean that they shouldn't be focused around existing ones) but instead use it to fix some of the old stuff (like a proper gunslinger e-spec for P/P thief) since many weapon sets (especially those based on dual wielding) tend to have some severe synergy issues / could use a rework.

> @"segman.3560" said:

> Elite specs are one of main expanion selling points. Why would they give it for free?

It's only free for those who played during the specific time window, everyone else has to buy the episode.

> What if one person only likes the footsteps and wants to keep them and nothing else?

Then give them their own fashion slot (like it should have been from the beginning), some foodprints already don't match the legendary thematically and it would give players a new incentive to go after legendaries they otherwise wouldn't have cared about. Same with projectile animations (in general, not just for legendaries).

> @"Vornollo.5182" said:

> As one of those Thief Mains who's against the majority of "buff ideas". I'd like to put some emphasis on the fact that other classes should receive some nerfs instead of buffing Thief.

> Thief's toolset is one of the fairest and most balanced in the game.

> So instead of adding more powercreep (by buffing Thief), they should remove some of it instead (nerfing other professions).

>

> Nerfs to others are pretty much buffs for us.

But that's not always the case. Some issues can't be solved through nerfs and require a buff in order to be resolved. Also, buffing only leads to powercreep if the endresult outperforms the established task related standard.

I really hope this refuge has a custom arena where you can have proper fights against your friends. The sPvP room system is kinda slacking in this regard, especially when it comes to casual PvP.

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > A "slight" increase wouldn't hurt

> > They shouldn't just get a "slight" increase in drop rate, they should get the "raid" treatment. Make it purchasable for 1000 casino coins + 20 gold and change the drop rates to what the ascended boxes form Tequatl & worm are, this way we would have another gold sink and players have a better incentive to actually engage in the content for more than just the first playthrough.

>

> I have to disagree. These infusion have some legendary qualities, so they should be a bit rarer than what you suggest. Somebody in another thread suggested a price of 10k map-currency and 1k gold, which would probably be a good compromise.

They have the same "properties" as the raid infusion and you'd still need 18 of them for the full effect, the only exceptions (in terms of being "special") are the Chak and the Queen Bee infusions because of their trails.