Eekasqueak.7850

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

>

> > And charr tanks are not necessarily slow. There is the buggy that is pretty fast for example.

> Maybe, maybe not. If memory serves, the fastest we ever see those move, in Orr and in the Blackout norn storyline, is at a light jog- comparable to a golem. We do know that they have a racing model, and that at least should move faster, but we don't know if it's meant for combat.

>

> > Those 'rapid fire barrages' - good thing the human armies at least have eles to block those. So no luck there. And then we have the pretty fast moving clockwork watchknights.

> That works both ways, though- plenty of golems out there who can put up shield or healing bubbles, and they can maintain them longer than most eles, too. The clockworks are almost certainly superior to the average golem, but the question there is if they can be mass-produced the way asura golems can.

I think average golem is the keyword there too, I don't think any number of watchworks would stand up to the experimental inquest golem we see in episode two of season four- it took exploiting a very specific weakness and Olmakhan magic which is above the scope of the knights.. and that was a flawed prototype. There's also the golem suit used in the Orr campaign which is able to take on a small army in its own right. Golems have less moving parts too while watch works in comparison can be seen as over-engineered. Like comparing Russian WW2 tanks to German ones.

> @"Kossage.9072" said:

> What's interesting about Lyssa's lore is what comes from the [Nightfall manual's page 22](ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf), showing the darker side of her "dual nature":

>

> > The patron goddess of Mesmers wears many masks, appearing in myriad forms. Patrons of the arts effusively praise her—particularly in the courts of wealthy Vabbi—but some fear her as a temperamental goddess. Behind her beautiful façade, some say, she maintains a deep communion with chaos. Displays of art and culture please her, but her wrath is terrible to behold. Her followers use her magic for illusion, trickery, and deception, twisting the magic of others to suit their own goals. By her whims, her enemies are brutalized by despair and hopelessness, while her beautiful followers are elevated to heights of rapture.

> > Tyrian artists often portray Lyssa as two goddesses: twin figures of exquisite beauty entwined in an eternal dance. In Elona, the masks may change, and the dance may change, but Lyssa’s dual nature does not. She is beautiful to some and terrifying to others.

>

> According to the same manual, page 27 describes how Lyssa "also features prominently in many [Elonian] spring rituals, particularly events dealing with courtship and matrimony," and how a sacred text of Lyssa referring to marriage is used in Sea of Sorrows novel where the twin goddesses' entwinement is compared to man and woman becoming one via an important bond: "Each companion to the other: two souls, united. [...] May no weapon sever the bond that holds your hands together, and may no word sever the love that keeps your hearts as one."

>

> Given the ties of Lyssa's name to the spirit of mad rage of the same name in Greek mythology (notably leading Heracles/Hercules into the frenzy in which he slaughtered his family), the suggestion that many young men have glanced at her statues only to be entranced and die of thirst days later, and the fates of Abaddon and Balthazar who both shared some history with her, I can't help but wonder if, with some of the suggestions presented by some posters above, means that Lyssa may have had affairs with both of them (either at different points in time or not, depending on if she was acting as Lyssa or as Lyss and Ilya at the time).

>

> If we go by the mad rage theme, it could be that whatever Lyssa loves is given their greatest desire (see the texts of Lyssa teaching people she came across the difference between illusion and truth and what is considered true beauty) only for them to suffer tenfold later because of being involved with her or due to unrelated reasons, kind of like in some mythologies you have the concept of the otherworldly woman/lover who, due to her own sinister reasons or via a chain of tragic events, (un)willingly leads her unfortunate lover to his doom. And the two men with the connection to Lyssa, if this theory were to hold weight, would be Abaddon and Balthazar who fell from grace by the end after experiencing bliss with Lyssa for a time.

>

> What's also curious, and possibly further supporting the "dual nature" of the goddess (or the potential personality differences between Lyss and Ilya) is how she/they can be depicted as benevolent and "cruel". In the Orrian texts it's said that "For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road." while in [Kormir's journal](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Journal_of_Kormir) found in "Facing the Truth" Kormir herself states how "The end of my time here approaches, and I find my thoughts straying. Perhaps Lyssa was right to mock me for lingering behind."

>

> A goddess who was stated in texts to care for humanity so much that she grieved being forced to leave their side (in contrast to the originally demigod Grenth who was partly mortal at birth and had befriended seven heroes with whom he would battle Dhuum to end his reign of terror and ascend to give souls proper judgement and yet was never written to have grieved for leaving his homeland and people behind) still would mock Kormir for feeling the same compassion she herself once did. Whether this is Lyssa's dual nature at play, the Orrian texts being completely wrong about how she felt when she was called to Arah, or her masking her true feelings in front of Kormir for benevolent or not-so-benevolent reasons remains unknown, but the discrepancy in the two statements is interesting and perhaps yet another hint for things to come.

>

> As for the gods themselves, I wouldn't call them villainous per se, at least not initially that we know of. Balthazar was apparently always ruthless to some extent (the devs cited the evidence of a text mentioning him carrying the severed head of his father although we don't know how the father died), and Abaddon was, based on some sources, was also up to no good to some extent before he truly began his rebellion. At best (and worst) they're like e.g. the Greek gods; powerful beings who are worthy of being called gods but who are flawed. They may attempt to do the good thing, and while they succeed at times, at other times their "meddling" only makes things worse. This was also [part of the reason](https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dolyak-Express-Jan-10-2014/page/3#post3545340) why Jeff Grubb suggested the gods departed from Tyria to begin with (before we knew of some of the other reasons from Kormir):

>

> > **Q:** Are the Six [gods] really gone or not? Their power is still very much present. Players can call upon the gods’ power with prayers, NPC priests can summon Reapers of Grenth etc., and their statues are still stuffed with energy. So if they left, why are their power still here?

> > **Jeff Grubb:** The human gods still exist, and their power is still felt within Tyria. However, they have pulled back into the mists, leaving the humans to stand (or fall) on their own merits. There has been a tendency for the human gods to, um, meddle with their worshippers a bit much, and in the wake of the final battle of Abaddon, they have been trying to cut back. Also, the destruction of the big A and his replacement with Kormir in the Pantheon resolved one of their ties with physical contact with Tyria. So there are ties, but you just can’t ring them up to take on the Elder Dragons.

>

> Melandru urged peace with the other races but was ignored. Dwayna led her people to peace, bringing them to a new world to build a new society. Lyssa tried to make people forget the past while teaching them valuable lessons. Grenth improved the fates of the dead after ascending. Balthazar purified Orr (likely from dragon corruption, but this is left ambiguous). These are all "good" acts even if some of these had a darker aspect to it later on as suggested by the parables among other things.

>

> The curious thing to find out now is if Kormir will cause the downfall of the gods in a cycle as the admittedly unreliable [mad souls](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mad_Soul) suggested in Nightfall after her ascension:

>

> > "A new god is born! A god that will destroy the others and bring about the end of the world! The cycle begins again!"

> > "When you walk dark paths, you open your mind to nightmare. Poor Kormir, poor sad goddess raised up to the stars, cursed to see only infinite blackness between them...."

>

> Not to mention the mystery of what exactly happened to Balthazar's stripped divinity. Based on previous lore and some potential dev hints, a new war deity may have risen in Balthazar's place although if so, it was odd that this wasn't really addressed in game (makes me wonder if previous drafts were more clear as Kormir's previous dialogue heard in S4E1 Daybreak trailer was clearer about the gods' reason for not fighting Elder Dragons than the actual PoF dialogue was). Even if this wasn't the case and the gods found another means of storing Balthy's power, hopefully the mystery gets addressed in game at some point, which is possible given dev replies that we'll catch a glimpse on how the churches of the deities (and likely the religious guilds like Zaishen, and maybe even the surviving Forged) are faring after PoF events.

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > And as for Anise as "the other half of Lyssa" - there's pretty heavy but subtle suggestions in One Path Ends (S3E6) that Anise is Livia's daughter. The shared red hair, and the hint of Anise's age dropped by Canach in S2, only furthers this.

>

> When facing Lazarus in ["The Last Chance"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Last_Chance#Dialogue), Livia pointed out she had no children or grandchildren, so it seems the whole mother-daughter dynamic suggested between her and Anise is more of a mentor-protege thing than actual blood relation.

>

> > **Lazarus:** Tell me, Livia. Do you have children? Grandchildren? Great-grandchildren?

> > **Livia:** I do not.

> > **Lazarus:** How disappointing. Your line dies with you. You've wasted lifetimes on me.

> > **Livia:** Your dying is worth it.

>

> Having family seems like a weird thing to deny when Livia was determined to finish off her old enemy anyway; what better way to annoy the last mursaat in his last moments than by claiming her line would carry on while his would be extinguished forever? And yet she replied with a simple "I do not." to emphasize the sacrifices she had made while carrying out her duty, prompting Lazarus's gleeful response about her line dying then and there with her.

>

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

>

> Ogden Stonehealer would disagree with that statement as per ["Hidden Arcana"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana#At_the_Durmand_Priory), though. ;)

>

> > **Pact Commander:** How does this all tie into the Eternal Alchemy?

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** Ah yes. Only asura would attempt to quantify nature itself. But then, they are limited in perspective.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** By attempting to define the undefinable, they actually move further from the truth rather than closer to it.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** The Eternal Alchemy, nature, our world, the All—however you want to name it—is beyond understanding.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We can only grasp portions of it. Even the Elder Dragons are small relative to the All.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We see only certain layers of the Mists, the Elders, and Tyria. Anything beyond that is hidden from us.

> > **Ogden Stonehealer:** We must content ourselves with first understanding what's before us.

There's no saying he's right about it though, he's as flawed a source as any mortal no matter his current lack of mortality.

I like shortbow in open world on ranger personally. I'm just biased towards condi builds though.

I'd put golems above watch work knights, they're more reliable, easier to mass produce and more versatile with the amount of models they come in. Megalasers are Asuran too and the biggest firepower we've seen. They're not even 'slow' unless you're talking the bog standard mark 1 series. Humanity is probably the second weakest military power after Sylvari right now, there's also the fact that Asura have gates everywhere and control enough of them they could drop a battalion of siege golems on any given capital. Only the inquest cares about conquest though, most Asura only care about the pursuit of discovery.

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

> > > >

> > > > Omadd's machine says otherwise.

> > >

> > > Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

> >

> > Read the rest, it also -didn't- drive the commander insane and confirmed that Asura have the most sound theory on the workings of the universe.

>

> I couldn't, because you just edited it in, though in short being biased isn't the same thing as being wrong. Further it;s worth noting that the Eternal Alchemy isn't a unique concept, the Dwarven All and the Apostles Antiktheyria have delved into those subject in detail. The Eternal Alchemy has the primary benefit of showing a rough structure as a mechanism with working parts, HOWEVER as Ogden pointed out, the Asura don't understand it.

>

> In fact, they tend to make themselves progressively more ignorant by trying to see every single piece of it down to the smallest detail, they're all about seeing the forest from the trees. In doing so they detach themselves from the spiritual elements of what is, after all, a spiritual universe where they try to find the bits and moving parts of things they can't possibly understand. In doing so they tend to either go insane, or become power hungry, which is why they have created a society that is so individualistic and in many ways backwards that they elect their failures to positions of office and control of the government.

>

> It has value, but it's limited, and the Asura can't get past their limitations because they built their entire society around trying to understand.

Asuran society isn't what I'd call backwards or a failure considering they've accomplished more than all the other developed races at this point, they might not understand it fully but I'd argue they've done more with it. Even if it's not unique it's more than the Humans, Norn, Sylvari or even Charr have.

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > > > >

> > > > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> > > >

> > > > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> > >

> > > I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

> >

> > Omadd's machine says otherwise.

>

> Didn't that drive someone insane and literally blow up a city, while unleashing an Elder Dragon on the planet.

Read the rest, it also -didn't- drive the commander insane and confirmed that Asura have the most sound theory on the workings of the universe.

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> > > >

> > > > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

> > >

> > > Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

> >

> > That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

>

> I mean it's more reliable then what any of the other races have to say about the workings of the universe at this point.

Omadd's machine says otherwise. You've shown a clear bias in your views of the non human races, Asura have the best view on how the workings of the universe work which is confirmed by the machine.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> > > I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

> >

> > I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

>

> Except [they didn't outright abandon humans](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden_of_the_Gods). They're looking for a new home for humanity, a safer home. And it sounds like that was the situation that drove the Six to bring humanity to Tyria in the first place too.

That's a religious text written by a human priest, not a reliable source IMO.

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> I'll be giving up all hope on ArenaNet's story telling ability when it comes to writing Gods if they make Lyssa a villain after all these hints.

I have doubts that the gods were ever good in the first place, they dumped humans on Tyria only to abandon them when the dragons show up, they're at the very least callous and don't even get me started on Kormir... Maybe I've just played too much pillars of eternity but I think Humanity and Tyria as a whole would be better off forgetting the gods.

Rytlock did nothing intentionally wrong, besides he's one of the only destiny's edge members I actually like.

If thief got a more support spec I think it'd be more fitting to be a "spell thief" style thing, Bard doesn't fit at all and tbh I'd rather have Paragon as a spec for Guardian since that's the guild wars bard equivalent.

Salvage fodder, you'll need to salvage some if you plan on doing ascended gear crafting since it's the only way to get globs of dark matter.

How about no.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Eekasqueak.7850" said:

> > > @"Loesh.4697" said:

> > > I'll believe Asura are the strongest magic users when one mind reads a dragon, until then the best Sorcerers are still firmly in the human camp.

> > >

> > > Golems are neat though, so they got that.

> >

> > Not necessarily the "strongest" but they know how magic works on a fundamental level more than any of the other races, essentially dissecting it down to a science.

> >

> > It's how they make all their technology.

>

> I wouldn't say asura know more, per se. In Sea of Sorrows, a human elementalistic is explaining how to use magic to an asura (Macha), despite said asura being a well established mesmer. And Macha learns from the human.

>

> So it's more of a different approach resulting in learning different things, rather than learning more (or the same and then some).

That sounds like an isolated case and them using two different kinds of magic muddies it further. There's a difference between using and understanding too.

It's like comparing a fighter pilot to the people who built the plane, one knows how to use it while the other knows how the whole thing works better.

> @"Loesh.4697" said:

> I'll believe Asura are the strongest magic users when one mind reads a dragon, until then the best Sorcerers are still firmly in the human camp.

>

> Golems are neat though, so they got that.

Not necessarily the "strongest" but they know how magic works on a fundamental level more than any of the other races, essentially dissecting it down to a science.

It's how they make all their technology.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > The thing with Joko, is how much he was reflected in the environment, starting from the Elon Riverlands to Kourna. He has giant statues of himself everywhere, which almost feels like his character is apart of those zones. You are constantly bombarded by these statues, his subjects and minions, which almost becomes extensions of himself.

> >

> > I highly disagree. Flame Legion are never considered an extension of Gaheron deapite the fact they constantly call upon their 'god' Balefire. And White Mantle who shout out foe their Unseen Ones are not considered extensionsof the character that is Lazarus.

> >

> > There may be a lack of Gaheron or Lazarus statues but the difference of landscape is not lacking. I think Joko might have had such a presence only because of players stronger familiarity with him and the whole 'new land's bit. If anything. But it still isn't Joko taking a stage.

>

> That’s cool.

>

> I personally didn’t get that feeling from the flame legion or white mantle. Maybe it’s because the awakened are so bound to Joko’s will and it’s always Joko this and Joko that. As well as the constant announcements in Vabbi and the rest of Kourna, I felt Joko was far more on display then any villain in Gw2.

>

> It’s just how I felt while playing PoF and season 4, not sure if anyone else felt this, which is why, I have no issue with his death.

I got the same impression really, to me he'd had enough time and I was glad to finally move on from him. Liches are an overdone villain type anyway. Honestly I'm hoping for less undead in general going forward, between the awakened, the mordrem plant ghouls and all the way back to risen I'm ready for something really new.

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"derd.6413" said:

> > what jormag offers is power in exchange for a norn's individualism. what the svanir believe is that jormag is a spirit of the wild (dragon) and that he is the most powerful of the spirits. they don't believe (or at least most whom aren't being lied to) that if they're strong enough they can prevent turning into icebrood and keep all the power granted by jormag.

>

> But then they're morons and I sorta refuse to see them as such.

>

> Fools deluded by false promises of power, surely.

>

> But taking this "deal" fully-well knowing that you'll turn brainless Icebrood?

>

> No way.

Well in Bitterfrost frontier it's made out pretty clearly that most Svanir and icebrood aren't very bright, but it's possible that Jormag is deceptive about the whole brainless part, and the Svanir are just blinded by their desire for more power.

I think alacrity should be given to maybe firebrand too, just in general more support options is good for the game I think. Druid and Chrono have a bit of a support monopoly right now.

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Bipedal, grey-skinned naked mole rats.

No that's Dredge

The teeth are all wrong for them to be rodents, the teeth are a rodent's primary characteristic.

Well Chaos is vikings in Warhammer fantasy and the Icebrood are mostly Norn...

I think Hindu has an afterlife similar to that, about joining with the God Brahman. After the cycle of reincarnation finally lands them a life where they are good enough for the honor though.

I don't think it's about being the literal best at everything just being the best at more things than any other profession. While also not really being the worst at anything.

I kind of like them as they are.

The banners clip on my Asura... So nope.