Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Eurantien.4632" said: > > > > What is druid supposed to do when pet damage gets nerfed again? > > > > > > Heal? It's actually what the spec was designed to do. > > > > If pet coefficients are nerfed again and the -20% pet attribute is not lifted, Druid will officially have achieved an even lower tier of uselessness than even Renegade had ever touched. > > > > At that point, Druid will become the weakest class/specialization that we've seen in this game's history. > > > > > > Druid is in a weird place. The class design was taken from chloromancer in Rift (mage class that could raid heal or single target heal, not both at the same time). Druid was put in the game to be a raid healer (like chloro), beyond that, it's kind of in an awkward place, especially in places like pvp. Not sure how they can fix it and balance the others out at the same time. I've explained how to fix the specialization several times in other threads, through simple buffs to the CA Kit, that would grant actual team support viable next to a FB, but not enhance the Druid's personal sustain much. That's all that needs to be done. There is a much larger list of cool things I'd like to see done to Druid, but the above ^ is something simple that Arenanet could do during any patch. Not sure why they let the spec sit and rot in the way that they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 A though from yesterday night... The damage spike from tigers is the result of multiplayer stacking with Moment of Clarity and Opening Strike. Which both only affect one hit. So when ANet changes the tiger pounce from 1 hit to 2 hits with 50% damage (it is an outliner anyway, all other cats with direct damage F2 hit at least twice, Sand Lion three times) it will be already nerfed by ~30% as the procs only affect the first hit but not the second. All without changing any stats or coefficients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > See how ranger main defend their classes and teach others how to counter ranger is hilarious. Just dodge the correct skills and eat the correct skills, isnt this true for all classes? or spend 6 seconds or more to focus the pet can kill it easily, oh we have 6 uninterrupted seconds to do that and the ranger is not going to stun or do dmg me during that 6 or more seconds. Oh, and we need to focus on weapon swap, weapon abilities, random pet cc, and pet utility, while checking for minimap to check the overall situation. Against other classes, we at least have 2 things less to worry about. > > It may be hard for you to believe this, but this whole vs. the pet & ranged damage thing, is actually the #1 l2p issue in this game, as very obviously indicated by how ranger is powerful in low tiers, but not viable at high tiers. > > If you want to win against rangers, don't take for granted the advice being given to you from old ranger mains. They're being completely serious with what they are explaining to you. Not to mention you can kill a ranger's pet what about that? Some of these pets are mighty squishy and you can deal a crushing blow by killing them. and yes im talking more to the other guy than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: 3.81 non crit (4.19) 1.91 non crit (2.09) 2.19 non crit (2.40) Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. 2.67 (3.35) 1.34 (1.67) 1.53 (1.92) Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > 2.67 (3.35) > 1.34 (1.67) > 1.53 (1.92) > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > 2.67 (3.35) > > 1.34 (1.67) > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. I didn't use the damage calculation formula, this was a direct comparison of skill coefficients adjusted for different stat levels. As for weapon damage considering that "Kills done by pet count towards different Weapon Master achievements, depending on the pet" according to the wiki it's safe to say they use exotic whatever weapon they're associated with so it would have little to no difference in PvP. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > 2.67 (3.35) > > 1.34 (1.67) > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: 2.85 non crit (3.13) 1.43 non crit (1.56) 1.64 non crit (1.80) and 2.00 (2.51) 1.00 (1.25) 1.14 (1.44) So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vyncius.6105 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 it was confirmed by anet pvp dev, that highest win rate classes, in all ranked tiers, are core ranger, dh, core guard, tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > Used damage formula to reverse engineer the wiki numbers to see if pets also work off a base 1000 power like players, they do. Used pet power values in game and found weapon power to check tooltip damage values for validation and they match on all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > > > Used damage formula to reverse engineer the wiki numbers to see if pets also work off a base 1000 power like players, they do. Used pet power values in game and found weapon power to check tooltip damage values for validation and they match on all accounts. OK thank you. Might be worth adding to the wiki if you feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. > > Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: > 2.85 non crit (3.13) > 1.43 non crit (1.56) > 1.64 non crit (1.80) > > and > > 2.00 (2.51) > 1.00 (1.25) > 1.14 (1.44) > > So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" As ranger damage outside of Maul is basically non-existent right now, the answer is simple. Almost as much as a player considering it is an easy to kite AI and has often a very slow reaction time. And again, the problem is not pet damage and their stats and coefficients. The stackable %-Buffs from marksmanship are problematic. Nerf or rework them it the damage spikes are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poledra Val.1490 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 I await with patience to see when Anet will decide to balance this class, its outright obnoxious at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > > > 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. > > > > Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: > > 2.85 non crit (3.13) > > 1.43 non crit (1.56) > > 1.64 non crit (1.80) > > > > and > > > > 2.00 (2.51) > > 1.00 (1.25) > > 1.14 (1.44) > > > > So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > As ranger damage outside of Maul is basically non-existent right now, the answer is simple. Almost as much as a player considering it is an easy to kite AI and has often a very slow reaction time. > > And again, the problem is not pet damage and their stats and coefficients. The stackable %-Buffs from marksmanship are problematic. Nerf or rework them it the damage spikes are gone. At a base level they are too strong compared to actual player skills after patch. There are some pet skills that are very likely to see a shave after a further review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > > > > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > > > > > 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. > > > > > > Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: > > > 2.85 non crit (3.13) > > > 1.43 non crit (1.56) > > > 1.64 non crit (1.80) > > > > > > and > > > > > > 2.00 (2.51) > > > 1.00 (1.25) > > > 1.14 (1.44) > > > > > > So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > As ranger damage outside of Maul is basically non-existent right now, the answer is simple. Almost as much as a player considering it is an easy to kite AI and has often a very slow reaction time. > > > > And again, the problem is not pet damage and their stats and coefficients. The stackable %-Buffs from marksmanship are problematic. Nerf or rework them it the damage spikes are gone. > > At a base level they are too strong compared to actual player skills after patch. There are some pet skills that are very likely to see a shave after a further review. Pets are fine. Marksmanship isn't. Big difference. But ArenaNet will follow the whiners, nerf the pets and ranger will again be completely useless in any PvP mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > > > > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > > > > > > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > > > > > > > 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. > > > > > > > > Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: > > > > 2.85 non crit (3.13) > > > > 1.43 non crit (1.56) > > > > 1.64 non crit (1.80) > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > 2.00 (2.51) > > > > 1.00 (1.25) > > > > 1.14 (1.44) > > > > > > > > So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > As ranger damage outside of Maul is basically non-existent right now, the answer is simple. Almost as much as a player considering it is an easy to kite AI and has often a very slow reaction time. > > > > > > And again, the problem is not pet damage and their stats and coefficients. The stackable %-Buffs from marksmanship are problematic. Nerf or rework them it the damage spikes are gone. > > > > At a base level they are too strong compared to actual player skills after patch. There are some pet skills that are very likely to see a shave after a further review. > > Pets are fine. Marksmanship isn't. Big difference. > > But ArenaNet will follow the whiners, nerf the pets and ranger will again be completely useless in any PvP mode. Can you explain why , say the tigers pounce, should be, at a base level, comparable to a level 3 eviscerate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > > > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > > > > > > > > > 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: > > > > > 2.85 non crit (3.13) > > > > > 1.43 non crit (1.56) > > > > > 1.64 non crit (1.80) > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > 2.00 (2.51) > > > > > 1.00 (1.25) > > > > > 1.14 (1.44) > > > > > > > > > > So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > As ranger damage outside of Maul is basically non-existent right now, the answer is simple. Almost as much as a player considering it is an easy to kite AI and has often a very slow reaction time. > > > > > > > > And again, the problem is not pet damage and their stats and coefficients. The stackable %-Buffs from marksmanship are problematic. Nerf or rework them it the damage spikes are gone. > > > > > > At a base level they are too strong compared to actual player skills after patch. There are some pet skills that are very likely to see a shave after a further review. > > > > Pets are fine. Marksmanship isn't. Big difference. > > > > But ArenaNet will follow the whiners, nerf the pets and ranger will again be completely useless in any PvP mode. > > Can you explain why , say the tigers pounce, should be, at a base level, comparable to a level 3 eviscerate ? Cats are class cannon pets, that die as soon as you focus them. It has a 1.5sec casttime. The pathfinding and reaction times are horrible. Ranger damage is not existent. Pets are the only class mechanic that can be completely disabled for an extended period of time. Pets can't dodge or condi-cleanse on their own neither there are skills that do it directly to the pet outside of swapping it, opening the ranger to the complete disable of his class mechanic. But we get it. Everyone feels like fighting against a ranger is a 1vs2, it's unfair and everyone hates pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > Anyone who says pets are fine is clearly wrong: > > > > > > > > If you actually look up some of the coefficients on the skills pets have they're pretty nutty. Now obviously a pet, in this example owl, might have 69.3% (1524/2200) the power stats and 0 additional ferocity vs players in berserker amulet, you can see that the coefficients are perhaps a little too high. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Owl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.5 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Slash > > > > > > > > 2.75 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swoop_(bird) > > > > > > > > 3.16 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slash_(bird) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if we adjust these for the power stat being 69.3% (1524/2200) that of a players in zerk amulet we would get the equivalent value for what it would be like on a player: > > > > > > > > 3.81 non crit (4.19) > > > > > > > > 1.91 non crit (2.09) > > > > > > > > 2.19 non crit (2.40) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where we can see that this is very high in today's state of the game for raw power especially the F2 Chilling Slash. Now someone will say "Ah but crits are lower" and that's true but the precision on owl gives it a 62.7% crit chance and at 0 ferocity it has a base crit damage multiplier of 150% while a player in berserker amulet will usually have 210% so a difference of 30% however with Beastmastery owl will have 170% ferocity which means it does 20% less than players would on crit as well as 150 extra power, so let's adjust the coefficients for that. > > > > > > > > 2.67 (3.35) > > > > > > > > 1.34 (1.67) > > > > > > > > 1.53 (1.92) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note: With the extra 150 stats in beastmastery owl has 76.1% the power of a zerk amulet (1674/2200) and a ~70% crit chance, the worked out numbers are the coefficients an equivalent player skill would need to equal the damage of the owl when adjusting for pet stats. Beastmastery numbers in brackets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most of these skills even adjusted for different power levels and ferocity values of the pet are much higher than what a player would have as coefficients in this current meta. The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And where do you factor in the weapon damage, that is also part of the final damage and is multiplied with the coefficient? Nowhere? Ahh, your math is wrong. > > > > > > > Lower weapon damage needs higher coefficients to deal actual damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pets weapon damage is 690, like most other utility skills. Even when this is considered when you compare certain pet skills to players skills they are relatively doing too much damage. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a source for this? I couldn't find it on the wiki, I can update the numbers to take this into account, roughly a 30% reduction I believe. > > > > > > > > > > 690/922.5 * 100 = 74.8% of player weapon damage so 25.2% reduction if this is the case. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Taking into account a 25.2% weapon strength difference gives: > > > > > 2.85 non crit (3.13) > > > > > 1.43 non crit (1.56) > > > > > 1.64 non crit (1.80) > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > 2.00 (2.51) > > > > > 1.00 (1.25) > > > > > 1.14 (1.44) > > > > > > > > > > So a player for non crit or crits would need a coefficient similar to these to do as much damage as the pet. These are still quite a bit higher than player skills will do but it goes back to what I said: The real question people should be discussing is "how much damage should a pet be doing compared to a player?" > > > > > > > > As ranger damage outside of Maul is basically non-existent right now, the answer is simple. Almost as much as a player considering it is an easy to kite AI and has often a very slow reaction time. > > > > > > > > And again, the problem is not pet damage and their stats and coefficients. The stackable %-Buffs from marksmanship are problematic. Nerf or rework them it the damage spikes are gone. > > > > > > At a base level they are too strong compared to actual player skills after patch. There are some pet skills that are very likely to see a shave after a further review. > > > > Pets are fine. Marksmanship isn't. Big difference. > > > > But ArenaNet will follow the whiners, nerf the pets and ranger will again be completely useless in any PvP mode. > > Can you explain why , say the tigers pounce, should be, at a base level, comparable to a level 3 eviscerate ? Because without marksmanship, the pet damage sucks. ^ True story. Go test play a Ranger for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > Because without marksmanship, the pet damage sucks. > > ^ True story. Go test play a Ranger for yourself. That is without marksmanship. Lowering the damage from a lv3 eviserate to lv2 isn't suddenly going to make it suck and be "unviable", just be less oppressive from what it is. Just don't be surprised when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > Because without marksmanship, the pet damage sucks. > > > > ^ True story. Go test play a Ranger for yourself. > > That is without marksmanship. Lowering the damage from a lv3 eviserate to lv2 isn't suddenly going to make it suck and be "unviable", just be less oppressive from what it is. > Just don't be surprised when this happens. > Oh I'm completely expecting Arenanet to once again nerf the wrong things on Ranger. But the difference this time around, is that Ranger won't survive it. Aside from everyone's current complaining, if Ranger pets lose even 20% of the damage output they have now and that damage is not reallocated somewhere onto Core Ranger, the Core Ranger will fall out of viability completely. Soulbeast will barely hang on to what very little viability it has left, only because it can merge and not have to rely on pet damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > Because without marksmanship, the pet damage sucks. > > > > > > ^ True story. Go test play a Ranger for yourself. > > > > That is without marksmanship. Lowering the damage from a lv3 eviserate to lv2 isn't suddenly going to make it suck and be "unviable", just be less oppressive from what it is. > > Just don't be surprised when this happens. > > > > Oh I'm completely expecting Arenanet to once again nerf the wrong things on Ranger. > > But the difference this time around, is that Ranger won't survive it. > > Aside from everyone's current complaining, if Ranger pets lose even 20% of the damage output they have now and that damage is not reallocated somewhere onto Core Ranger, the Core Ranger will fall out of viability completely. > > Soulbeast will barely hang on to what very little viability it has left, only because it can merge and not have to rely on pet damage. Nobody said anything about all pets. There are only a few that need changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > At that point, Druid will become the weakest class/specialization that we've seen in this game's history. If they remove the pet entirely on druid, then sure it MIGHT be comperable with chronomancer :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > Because without marksmanship, the pet damage sucks. > > > > > > ^ True story. Go test play a Ranger for yourself. > > > > That is without marksmanship. Lowering the damage from a lv3 eviserate to lv2 isn't suddenly going to make it suck and be "unviable", just be less oppressive from what it is. > > Just don't be surprised when this happens. > > > > Oh I'm completely expecting Arenanet to once again nerf the wrong things on Ranger. > > But the difference this time around, is that Ranger won't survive it. > > Aside from everyone's current complaining, if Ranger pets lose even 20% of the damage output they have now and that damage is not reallocated somewhere onto Core Ranger, the Core Ranger will fall out of viability completely. > > Soulbeast will barely hang on to what very little viability it has left, only because it can merge and not have to rely on pet damage. Your statement is just simply nonsense. Look at the previous balances/nerfs on other classes. Core hammer guard nerfed but there are still many GS core guards around and some DH, and FB was out. (This is prior to this huge balance patch); Heal FB got nerfed to hell, but symbol band was invented; D/P Daredevil was nerfed to the ground, but afterwards people play core s/d; Berzerker war got nerfed to the ground, so people play core and later SB; Scourge got nerfed, then people play core terrormancer. Chrono becomes unplayable, but then it comes the chaos Mesmer, the most stupid class so far in the game (again prior to the balance patch). So many times when it comes to nerfing others classes, you guys argue against the defenders saying the nerfs are well deserved, now its ranger's turn, so just embrace it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > At that point, Druid will become the weakest class/specialization that we've seen in this game's history. > > If they remove the pet entirely on druid, then sure it MIGHT be comperable with chronomancer :p cripple fight!! lets go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > Because without marksmanship, the pet damage sucks. > > > > > > > > ^ True story. Go test play a Ranger for yourself. > > > > > > That is without marksmanship. Lowering the damage from a lv3 eviserate to lv2 isn't suddenly going to make it suck and be "unviable", just be less oppressive from what it is. > > > Just don't be surprised when this happens. > > > > > > > Oh I'm completely expecting Arenanet to once again nerf the wrong things on Ranger. > > > > But the difference this time around, is that Ranger won't survive it. > > > > Aside from everyone's current complaining, if Ranger pets lose even 20% of the damage output they have now and that damage is not reallocated somewhere onto Core Ranger, the Core Ranger will fall out of viability completely. > > > > Soulbeast will barely hang on to what very little viability it has left, only because it can merge and not have to rely on pet damage. > > Your statement is just simply nonsense. Look at the previous balances/nerfs on other classes. Core hammer guard nerfed but there are still many GS core guards around and some DH, and FB was out. (This is prior to this huge balance patch); Heal FB got nerfed to hell, but symbol band was invented; D/P Daredevil was nerfed to the ground, but afterwards people play core s/d; Berzerker war got nerfed to the ground, so people play core and later SB; Scourge got nerfed, then people play core terrormancer. Chrono becomes unplayable, but then it comes the chaos Mesmer, the most stupid class so far in the game (again prior to the balance patch). So many times when it comes to nerfing others classes, you guys argue against the defenders saying the nerfs are well deserved, now its ranger's turn, so just embrace it mate. So people just go around now asking for nerfs out of spite......before long there will be nothing more to nerf or play....people will move on while many will keep living off their bitterness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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