Lets try do our part a litle bit better by asking for the right nerfs

[georgessj.4198]

Just a friendly reminder from a guy who like almost everyone here he agrees with the most nerfs so far and didnt like the previous 0.1 second insta kill fiesta.

So far arena has been doing an excellent job and the peoples nerf suggestions were mostly on point but...

there is still a lot of work need to be done with nerfs so please lets think, look for info and discuss before we suggest a nerf.

I see a common example of a bad nerf suggestion being this: reaper just presses 1 and hits me for 15k so nerf reaper, Ranger doesnt even press anything and his pet hits me with basic attack for 8k so nerf pet. Yes these kind of numbers are insane, yes they need to be worked on BUT reapers 1 hits for 600 and although i dont play ranger im sure his pet hits for a lot less than that.Shouldnt we be focusing on the ferocity in these particular situations and not the whole class or pet it self? Im not asking for a ferocity nerf i wanna discuss about it i dont claim to now it all on the matter thats why im asking for your feedback before i make a ferocity nerf post.

I dont think arena is blind to issues that people bring again and again on the table look at what great job they did with warrior without anyone complaining non stop about him.

We all know for example ranger-pet situation should have been adjusted if not nerfed some time now and ofc it will in the near future but i think not expressing our selfs in a right way is whats causing the delays or the no nerfs at all.

[Tayga.3192]

Well yes, mathematically ferocity and modifiers are way more important after the patch.

[Exedore.6320]

The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

 

Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

[Axl.8924]

Its true people don't understand modifiers and how stuff works. For instance: People complain about pets, but they don't understand how modifiers work for ranger that improves pet, or that there are secondary ones that are active, so you could have low damage without such modifiers, and nerfing the dmg won't change that there are modifiers that are increasing damage, which is why I worry for the future of druid elite since it's not doing that great atm.

 

I am at least a bit relieved that last time necros got nerfed, they didn't overdo it and took some good suggestions in order to not over nerf. I hope that they take the good ones for the next one so it doesn't end up being trash tier punching bag.

 

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

>

> Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

 

If they took away the reapers quickness the attacks in shroud would never land being that they would be too slow. Even with quickness, number 2 is sooo slow.

 

IF they nerf quickness and take it away, they will have to buff reaper shroud attack speed.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

>

> Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

 

Ranger is a duellist class by design and concept, evades and escapes are linked to the nature of the class itself, every game you go and play a ranger archetypes ..you will find the same kind of evasive/escape potential : Aion-FF online- EoS - WoW etc etc

 

If people don't want that kind of gameplay..then give a shield and a mace to rangers along with heavy armor and call it "warrior with a pet", I don't detract anything from your post..some giving some additional infos

 

From your Profile icon , shall I assume you play a guard?! Played one for hundreds of hours and know the traitlines by heart, played it from pvp to wvw passing through pve...same thing with war in case you play one . I know exactly the levels of sustain I can reach on guardian and warrior and yeah...without saying too much, you have not much room (if at all ) to complain about ranger sustain ( which I play too)

 

Ranger deserves some nerfs...but let's not get too crazy..because if we start looking at the sustain of ranger too much....**guardian and the rest won't get a free pass**

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Hahahahahahahaha GL!

[Axl.8924]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

> >

> > Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

>

> Ranger is a duellist class by design and concept, evades and escapes are linked to the nature of the class itself, every game you go and play a ranger archetypes ..you will find the same kind of evasive/escape potential : Aion-FF online- EoS - WoW etc etc

>

> If people don't want that kind of gameplay..then give a shield and a mace to rangers along with heavy armor and call it "warrior with a pet", I don't detract anything from your post..some giving some additional infos

>

> From your Profile icon , shall I assume you play a guard?! Played one for hundreds of hours and know the traitlines by heart, played it from pvp to wvw passing through pve...same thing with war in case you play one . I know exactly the levels of sustain I can reach on guardian and warrior and yeah...without saying too much, you have not much room (if at all ) to complain about ranger sustain ( which I play too)

>

> Ranger deserves some nerfs...but let's not get too crazy..because if we start looking at the sustain of ranger too much....**guardian and the rest won't get a free pass**

 

Wouldn't that also be true to the thief class? It would be like trying to have a thief who doesn't evade and doesn't go stealth and backstab, and people endlessly complain about the mechanics.

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

> > >

> > > Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

> >

> > Ranger is a duellist class by design and concept, evades and escapes are linked to the nature of the class itself, every game you go and play a ranger archetypes ..you will find the same kind of evasive/escape potential : Aion-FF online- EoS - WoW etc etc

> >

> > If people don't want that kind of gameplay..then give a shield and a mace to rangers along with heavy armor and call it "warrior with a pet", I don't detract anything from your post..some giving some additional infos

> >

> > From your Profile icon , shall I assume you play a guard?! Played one for hundreds of hours and know the traitlines by heart, played it from pvp to wvw passing through pve...same thing with war in case you play one . I know exactly the levels of sustain I can reach on guardian and warrior and yeah...without saying too much, you have not much room (if at all ) to complain about ranger sustain ( which I play too)

> >

> > Ranger deserves some nerfs...but let's not get too crazy..because if we start looking at the sustain of ranger too much....**guardian and the rest won't get a free pass**

>

> Wouldn't that also be true to the thief class? It would be like trying to have a thief who doesn't evade and doesn't go stealth and backstab, and people endlessly complain about the mechanics.

>

 

People complain about the endless reset and engaging/disengaging options which don't make for fun gameplay ...like a 1500 range archer sniper oneshotting people with 3k armor, it's possible to maintain the duellist nature without making it too oppressive for people to face

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > > The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

> > > >

> > > > Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

> > >

> > > Ranger is a duellist class by design and concept, evades and escapes are linked to the nature of the class itself, every game you go and play a ranger archetypes ..you will find the same kind of evasive/escape potential : Aion-FF online- EoS - WoW etc etc

> > >

> > > If people don't want that kind of gameplay..then give a shield and a mace to rangers along with heavy armor and call it "warrior with a pet", I don't detract anything from your post..some giving some additional infos

> > >

> > > From your Profile icon , shall I assume you play a guard?! Played one for hundreds of hours and know the traitlines by heart, played it from pvp to wvw passing through pve...same thing with war in case you play one . I know exactly the levels of sustain I can reach on guardian and warrior and yeah...without saying too much, you have not much room (if at all ) to complain about ranger sustain ( which I play too)

> > >

> > > Ranger deserves some nerfs...but let's not get too crazy..because if we start looking at the sustain of ranger too much....**guardian and the rest won't get a free pass**

> >

> > Wouldn't that also be true to the thief class? It would be like trying to have a thief who doesn't evade and doesn't go stealth and backstab, and people endlessly complain about the mechanics.

> >

>

> People complain about the endless reset and engaging/disengaging options which don't make for fun gameplay ...like a 1500 range archer sniper oneshotting people with 3k armor, it's possible to maintain the duellist nature without making it too oppressive for people to face

 

The question then becomes why does GW2 have something like 3.5-5 duelists?

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> If they took away the reapers quickness the attacks in shroud would never land being that they would be too slow. Even with quickness, number 2 is sooo slow.

>

> IF they nerf quickness and take it away, they will have to buff reaper shroud attack speed.

Balancing around an unhealthy trait is not good for the game. Yes, removing quickness in shroud would make reaper considerably weak. But without such a powerful trait, reaper can get proper buffs and changes.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > If they took away the reapers quickness the attacks in shroud would never land being that they would be too slow. Even with quickness, number 2 is sooo slow.

> >

> > IF they nerf quickness and take it away, they will have to buff reaper shroud attack speed.

> Balancing around an unhealthy trait is not good for the game. Yes, removing quickness in shroud would make reaper considerably weak. But without such a powerful trait, reaper can get proper buffs and changes.

 

Like i said as long as they buff the speed of shroud attacks to compensate for loss, otherwise reaper will not kill anyone, because they will literally be too slow.

[anduriell.6280]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > If they took away the reapers quickness the attacks in shroud would never land being that they would be too slow. Even with quickness, number 2 is sooo slow.

> > >

> > > IF they nerf quickness and take it away, they will have to buff reaper shroud attack speed.

> > Balancing around an unhealthy trait is not good for the game. Yes, removing quickness in shroud would make reaper considerably weak. But without such a powerful trait, reaper can get proper buffs and changes.

>

> Like i said as long as they buff the speed of shroud attacks to compensate for loss, otherwise reaper will not kill anyone, because they will literally be too slow.

 

What reapers onslaught needs its to remove the pulsing effect, i would instead give 1s quickness on crit with 3s internal cooldown. I would apply the same for wvw.

Reduce the ferocity to 250 to keep it in line with the rest of the traits in game.

 

In Pve can keep the 3s quickness in crit with 3s ICD

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Reaper is currently in the best position it has ever been in. It's balanced, it feels good to play and it doesn't feel bad to play against.

 

People aren't even complaining at all about Reaper. Not a single complaint about how it feels to play as or against Reaper.

 

Don't ruin it for Necro players. Move along and discuss something else now.

 

~ Go on, shoo shoo.

[Grimjack.8130]

ranger, somehow, i dont really know the specifics

holosmith, mortar and tankiness, explosive entrance is too spammy and punishes other players for playing well vs the holo (constantly being above 90)

necro, shroud generation, deathmagic promotes bad gameplay at low and average levels, is lich overperforming? maybe?, nerf downstate necro xd

ele, lr

rev, condi rev mallyx elite, tbh id nerf renegade and jalis unironically promotes super bad gameplay and could easily see play in a super unhealthy bunker comp, power is okay, give it slight shaves very little tho

thief, shadowshot is kinda busted still, its not underperforming but sidenoders areoverperforming making it seem weaker than it is, shadow portal sees a ton of play, idk if it needs a nerf though, id try to make DA better than SA again for sure though

mes, signet of illusions i personally dislike and think it promotes bad and good gameplay at the same time, the actual stacks of conditions need to be addressed more so than anything else, the damage is fine, the burst is less so(give it its dodge back)

warrior, fine dont touch it

guardian is also fine tbh

 

remove berserker + knights amulet tho

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > The problem with reaper is having perma-quickness in shroud. It was a ridiculous buff and needs removed.

> >

> > Ranger is more complicated. There are some outlier pets. However, the overall damage is in line with using a damage amulet. The problem is that ranger also has a lot of evade and escape mechanics which allow it to avoid some periods of vulnerability. I'm not sure how to nerf that without hurting the theme of ranger.

>

> Ranger is a duellist class by design and concept, evades and escapes are linked to the nature of the class itself, every game you go and play a ranger archetypes ..you will find the same kind of evasive/escape potential : Aion-FF online- EoS - WoW etc etc

 

if they are a duellist class - why do they have insane range, can ignore LoS and have pets?

 

does not make sense at all.

[Tharan.9085]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > If they took away the reapers quickness the attacks in shroud would never land being that they would be too slow. Even with quickness, number 2 is sooo slow.

> > >

> > > IF they nerf quickness and take it away, they will have to buff reaper shroud attack speed.

> > Balancing around an unhealthy trait is not good for the game. Yes, removing quickness in shroud would make reaper considerably weak. But without such a powerful trait, reaper can get proper buffs and changes.

>

> Like i said as long as they buff the speed of shroud attacks to compensate for loss, otherwise reaper will not kill anyone, because they will literally be too slow.

 

So how did reaper kill stuff before that trait was introduced?

[Axl.8924]

> @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > If they took away the reapers quickness the attacks in shroud would never land being that they would be too slow. Even with quickness, number 2 is sooo slow.

> > > >

> > > > IF they nerf quickness and take it away, they will have to buff reaper shroud attack speed.

> > > Balancing around an unhealthy trait is not good for the game. Yes, removing quickness in shroud would make reaper considerably weak. But without such a powerful trait, reaper can get proper buffs and changes.

> >

> > Like i said as long as they buff the speed of shroud attacks to compensate for the loss, otherwise, reaper will not kill anyone, because they will literally be too slow.

>

> So how did reaper kill stuff before that trait was introduced?

 

It needed help and people were complaining about how slow it is.

 

After nerfs, it was not very good for longest time and necros were in the trash bin for years on end, because they had no survivability vs others due to burst of other classes which was superior btw and when it was op it was quickly nerfed then hammered again and again until it was in the trash bin, something you wouldn't understand because you are a guardian main. See necros were left in 2012 while every other class got buffed up to 2019 in mobility sustain etc, and necro could not survive so it felt like shit frankly. Reaper damage needs to hit hard to get kills, and its less a problem than core is anyways because condi core is the one with all the sustain.

 

Not saying necros didn't need nerfs in the past, but there were hatred and bias against necros, and people are used to having necros as ez kills.

 

Somewhat like only mes and ranger players will truly fully understand the implications of nerfs to their class, or thief, which is why I advocate for improvement and overhaul instead of destroying a class.

 

If you don't like necro that's fine, but please consider your words carefully before asking for huge devastating nerfs.