Balance 28/04/20

[Anchoku.8142]

The trims to Necro sustain look good to me. This time, no mechanics were changed or replaced with buggy new ones.

 

Only high bunker-factor and fast resurrection were nerfed so Necro can still be Necro. LF and health management do not have as strong corner cases, anymore.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Talking about your class is one thing and I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be doing that. I'm talking about the way you (and some other people, it's not exactly restricted to your post/person) see the changes. That's almost a constant for some people and it's like that in other class' subforums. These changes didn't destroy necro and were easly to be expected.

>

> See, if I was to say a balance change was poorly made, I'd rather focus on pointing out **why**. What was done poorly? What -in my opinion- was done wrongfully and what should be changed/nerfed/adjusted instead. But the first thing you write after listing patchnote changes is **"Necromancer haters' wishes have been granted."** And that's why it looks so ridiculous to me.

 

I've pointed it out countless time which is why I didn't bother to point it out again. ANet balance around numbers when fondamentally what's wrong is some mechanisms (and here I'm talking for all professions).

 

> But the first thing you write after listing patchnote changes is **"Necromancer haters' wishes have been granted."** And that's why it looks so ridiculous to me.

 

That's because the list of change is basically what's players hating on necromancer in the sPvP subforum have been asking for quite a few weeks. How is it ridiculous to simply state a fact? Or maybe you didn't see the countless threads related, it seem even ANet dev saw them, how could you not?

 

Now, since I need to argument my point, none of the necromancer's change in this patch will be impactfull enough to shake the statut quo. Players that were strugling against bunker core necro will continue to strugle and necromancer using already other build less effective will just see themselve punished. Anet target LF gen and degen at the whim of the sPvP community when it's not the root cause of the increased survivability of the core necromancer. The root cause is the width of the LF pool, there is simply to much base LF compared the the "new" level of damage. ANet could have spared the last 2-3 rounds of nerf just by reducing the ratio LF/health from 69% to 46% in sPvP/WvW, effectively nerfing the sustain from all LF sources by 33% like other sources of sustain (And no it's not some complicated thing to do, there is basically a minor trait that tinker with this ration in soul reaping).

 

Is it difficult to just do thing properly once and for all instead of butchering things around again and again creating unseen damage that come hitting the game in the back afterward? Every single profession suffer from the way ANet balance, always taking the round way listening to whinners when they should just target the right thing. If I look objectively at what they changed in this patch, I can say without doubt that the impact will be minor if not inexistent.

[Shroud.2307]

I only WvW so these changes don't effect me. Yet.

 

Maybe it won't come to WvW, I don't know. I don't like the way they're going with this though. I've explained my thoughts on complaints about Necro time and time again, I'm tired of doing it.

 

I don't play the Signet build, I don't use Death Magic or Blood Magic, and I don't play a Condition build. I play a near full zerk build and it's extremely enjoyable, something I've loved for a very long time until a cast time was added to Doom (a skill that has an animation and does no damage unless traited with Terror) and Dread was nerfed which heavily impacted my build.

 

Frustration with the state of core made me stop playing it for the second time, the first being shortly after PoF. I felt my build had been butchered and I didn't have fun with it anymore.

 

I came back to it just recently trying a different approach but still using a mostly zerk build ( when I say mostly, it's a mix of zerk/Cav/Knight with 2.5k armor and 2.6k Power ) and ended up enjoying it again and finding I could still be effective with it.

 

Now I see these patch notes just shortly after falling in love with core again... And I don't know how to feel. I think I'm going to take another break from the game. I don't know when the expansion is coming out, maybe I'll be gone until then, maybe only a few weeks/months, what ever. This patch just rubs me the wrong way, so I'm out for a while.

 

Also in my defense in case anyone thinks _I_ think these changes aren't justified or I'm being over dramatic;

I do agree with some of the changes. I do think core Necro is problematic in some scenarios, primarily PvP where it was nerfed. And I absolutely loathe the Signet build. So nerfs are welcome. I just dislike some of the things they're targeting and ways they're doing it. Fear Of Death is a big one. If they repeatedly nerf Life Force gain all they're going to do is strengthen the Signet meta because it will be the only thing that generate enough Life Force to be viable. What they're doing makes the problematic builds _more_ favorable, not less.

 

Anyway, see ya for now fellow Necro's. Good luck out there.

[Nimon.7840]

Well who would have expected it. Yet no further nerfs to guard or rev.

Watched some high rank pvp matches of a streamer before the patch.

 

While not every match had a necro in it. Every match had a guard and rev in it.

 

Didn't get to watch pvp after the patch though.

Also they removed some amulets that let you cheese some situalions.

 

Further reason to not play spvp at all.

 

Also no mentionable nerf to burn guard for wvw.

And engi still does insane amounts of damage in wvw.

 

Maybe just give it more corrupts or boonremoves, then we will get a guard/engineer meta, no other classes allowed.

Then guard can give stab and heal, the other guard in the group is burn, one eng plays cleanse eng, the other one goes for damage. And put another eng in for even more dmg.

 

Once again. Wvw everything completely ignored except eng bombkit 1.

[Fueki.4753]

I just don't understand why Weavers are allowed to be so disgustingly tanky, when Necromancers are not allowed to.

[Brujeria.7536]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> I just don't understand why Weavers are allowed to be so disgustingly tanky, when Necromancers are not allowed to.

 

Same thing goes for Guardians / Firebrands. All these classes can be equally tanky, all while spilling boons / support or defenses to actually being able to retaliate instead of being a pure CC punching bag.

 

But Balance has never been the strong side of GW2 sadly. This also shows in the popularity of PvP and the constant decrease in WvW. People say its because of the lack in updates, but really its not. PvP gamemodes dont need permanent new additions to stay interesting, they just need good balance that makes the fights fun and on "equal footing". At this point its just buildwars 2, you dont need skill, you just need to play the correct build on the correct class.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> I just don't understand why Weavers are allowed to be so disgustingly tanky, when Necromancers are not allowed to.

 

+1

this

 

Necromancer Profession is once again back being treated as a scapegoat Profession while Elementalist Profession playing both the Guardian Profession role and the the Warrior Profession role is ok?

 

(obviously, Necromancer does not play a tank role, so how about playing their roles-spreading conditions?

 

**No!!**

 

You gave them all away to other Professions and even intentionally increased them more...as a slap on the face to Necromancer Profession)

 

/see Revenant Profession

/see Guardian Profession

/see Elementalist Profession

/see Engineer Profession

/see Warrior Profession

 

-once again, **Please!!** bring back the original Anet team-

 

-Burnfall-

 


 

 

 

[Inguz.6493]

I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.

[Black Storm.6974]

> @"Inguz.6493" said:

> I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.

 

Yours is one build. Many other different builds can be played. These changes reduce “build diversity”, by a lot.

 

Also, I feel like reducing the impact of traits in the build makes the game boring. Traits can give many different abilities and change how a class is played, what a class can do. Reducing their impact makes different builds more similar to each other.

[Inguz.6493]

> @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> > @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.

>

> Yours is one build. Many other different builds can be played. These changes reduce “build diversity”, by a lot.

>

> Also, I feel like reducing the impact of traits in the build makes the game boring. Traits can give many different abilities and change how a class is played, what a class can do. Reducing their impact makes different builds more similar to each other.

 

Which builds, though? Core power? Minion Master? Scourge won't be affected by the Shroud nerfs. (Not sure if Shroud nerfs affects Reaper or not?)

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Well gratz nec is a punching bag again well i quit, would rather play a pve mmorpg rather than this trash.

 

calm down, nothing changed, only rez trait got removed and nothing else, unholy sanctuary was a crutch and good necro can make it work without it with no difference whatsoever, heck I can play necro without it and I suck at necro

[Josiah.2967]

Wouldn't it be nice to see buffs for under performing specs/abilities with the nerfs for a change?

 

*shrug*

[Black Storm.6974]

> @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> > > @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > > I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.

> >

> > Yours is one build. Many other different builds can be played. These changes reduce “build diversity”, by a lot.

> >

> > Also, I feel like reducing the impact of traits in the build makes the game boring. Traits can give many different abilities and change how a class is played, what a class can do. Reducing their impact makes different builds more similar to each other.

>

> Which builds, though? Core power? Minion Master? Scourge won't be affected by the Shroud nerfs. (Not sure if Shroud nerfs affects Reaper or not?)

 

Unfortunately Ritual of Life was a very big portion of the support capability of necromancer. Most of the support builds that are not tank builds got a heavy hit by this patch.

Core power or condition dps/support (at least 4 viable builds), Reaper power dps/support (at least 3 viable builds), the tank variant of various builds, etc.

 

While the tank variant of the builds could seem over performing with high resurrection capability, the dps variants were much more balanced. We had to ress fast otherwise “we” would die, we were loosing damage to take Blood Magic and other tools that allowed to offer some support without being immediately destroyed. We lost a lot of fun, enough effective, not very popular builds.

 

I hope something else can be given to us, to help build variety. Usually, I don’t really enjoy playing “meta” (popular) builds and I'm not going to tank with my necromancers. I don’t enjoy having a lot of Health and suffer every “3 seconds” from CC skills I can’t counter.

 

A lot of people also suggest to nerf life force generation, but... Don’t forget that necromancer is not only a tank. Life force is very important for every dps build, without it necromancer is extremely weak both offensively and defensively.

 

I could also mention that right now an effective Scourge support build can not even exist both in PvP “and WvW”, and the nerf to Ritual of Life is another big hit to something that was already impossible to achieve. I wonder if and how ArenaNet will make supporting with Scourge “possible” again.

[Inguz.6493]

> @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> > @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > > @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> > > > @"Inguz.6493" said:

> > > > I've been playing my necro (core condi) a lot lately, before and after the nerf. I feel that the nerfs are justified. Before the patch, I was too resilient in 1v1 situations, and in all fairness, I don't feel the effect of the nerfs _that much_. It's fine, really.

> > >

> > > Yours is one build. Many other different builds can be played. These changes reduce “build diversity”, by a lot.

> > >

> > > Also, I feel like reducing the impact of traits in the build makes the game boring. Traits can give many different abilities and change how a class is played, what a class can do. Reducing their impact makes different builds more similar to each other.

> >

> > Which builds, though? Core power? Minion Master? Scourge won't be affected by the Shroud nerfs. (Not sure if Shroud nerfs affects Reaper or not?)

>

> Unfortunately Ritual of Life was a very big portion of the support capability of necromancer. Most of the support builds that are not tank builds got a heavy hit by this patch.

> Core power or condition dps/support (at least 4 viable builds), Reaper power dps/support (at least 3 viable builds), the tank variant of various builds, etc.

>

> While the tank variant of the builds could seem over performing with high resurrection capability, the dps variants were much more balanced. We had to ress fast otherwise “we” would die, we were loosing damage to take Blood Magic and other tools that allowed to offer some support without being immediately destroyed. We lost a lot of fun, enough effective, not very popular builds.

>

> I hope something else can be given to us, to help build variety. Usually, I don’t really enjoy playing “meta” (popular) builds and I'm not going to tank with my necromancers. I don’t enjoy having a lot of Health and suffer every “3 seconds” from CC skills I can’t counter.

>

> A lot of people also suggest to nerf life force generation, but... Don’t forget that necromancer is not only a tank. Life force is very important for every dps build, without it necromancer is extremely weak both offensively and defensively.

>

> I could also mention that right now an effective Scourge support build can not even exist both in PvP “and WvW”, and the nerf to Ritual of Life is another big hit to something that was already impossible to achieve. I wonder if and how ArenaNet will make supporting with Scourge “possible” again.

 

While I see your concerns and agree that each profession having more than one or two viable (albeit, perhaps some more niche ones) builds would be a good thing, you also have to take into account Arena Net's position. They had to nerf core condition survivability. Perhaps they could have butchered Blood Magic, but that seems even worse than nerfing shroud.

[Fueki.4753]

> They had to nerf core condition survivability.

If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

[Burjis.3087]

Anet's nerfs affects every necro. And yet condi core is still on top running wild! Good job

Fear of death and unholy sanctuary are nerfs I can get behind but not the rest

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

 

Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> > If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> > This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

>

> Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

 

I fought one Weaver that consistently stayed above 80% health even against three people yesterday.

I don't think **any** build should be able to hold itself against three moderate players.

At least I hope my two teammates were moderately skilled.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> > > If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> > > This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

> >

> > Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

>

> I fought one Weaver that consistently stayed above 80% health even against three people yesterday.

> I don't think **any** build should be able to hold itself against three moderate players.

> At least I hope my two teammates were moderately skilled.

 

This is anecdotal and avoids the question.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> > > If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> > > This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

> >

> > Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

>

> I fought one Weaver that consistently stayed above 80% health even against three people yesterday.

> I don't think **any** build should be able to hold itself against three moderate players.

> At least I hope my two teammates were moderately skilled.

 

A weaver staying above 80% health with 3 players against him means your team was really bad A good weaver can't hold his own much better against 2 players either, just gotta learn when to use your skills.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> > > > If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> > > > This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

> > >

> > > Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

> >

> > I fought one Weaver that consistently stayed above 80% health even against three people yesterday.

> > I don't think **any** build should be able to hold itself against three moderate players.

> > At least I hope my two teammates were moderately skilled.

>

> A weaver staying above 80% health with 3 players against him means your team was really bad A good weaver can't hold his own much better against 2 players either, just gotta learn when to use your skills.

This could be said about bunker core necro too, right from day1 after the feb25 patch. And it was still nerfed 2 times since then.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> > > > > If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> > > > > This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

> > > >

> > > > Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

> > >

> > > I fought one Weaver that consistently stayed above 80% health even against three people yesterday.

> > > I don't think **any** build should be able to hold itself against three moderate players.

> > > At least I hope my two teammates were moderately skilled.

> >

> > A weaver staying above 80% health with 3 players against him means your team was really bad A good weaver can't hold his own much better against 2 players either, just gotta learn when to use your skills.

> This could be said about bunker core necro too, right from day1 after the patch. And it was still nerfed 2 times since then.

 

I've never seen a core necro alone enduring against more than one player for long.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > > They had to nerf core condition survivability.

> > > > > > If they **had to**, why didn't they **have to** nerf Weaver and Firebrand survivability as well?

> > > > > > This was a pretty much biased nerf to the one with the least survivability of the three.

> > > > >

> > > > > Didn't weaver sustain get a huge nerf in the main patch while necro remained pretty much unchanged sustain wise?

> > > >

> > > > I fought one Weaver that consistently stayed above 80% health even against three people yesterday.

> > > > I don't think **any** build should be able to hold itself against three moderate players.

> > > > At least I hope my two teammates were moderately skilled.

> > >

> > > A weaver staying above 80% health with 3 players against him means your team was really bad A good weaver can't hold his own much better against 2 players either, just gotta learn when to use your skills.

> > This could be said about bunker core necro too, right from day1 after the patch. And it was still nerfed 2 times since then.

>

> I've never seen a core necro alone enduring against more than one player for long.

 

It's anet balancing, Personally I feel like Necro has never had a good time on it's own relying on pugs to be somewhat decent and that's where it struggles, with Weaver you can kinda carry but just hope that opposition team are silly enough to try and 1v1 a weaver on a point the weaver holds.

[RisenHowl.2419]

 

Reaper still feels good =D

[Burjis.3087]

People speak as if bunker core necro was even a thing! It was face nerfed right after the main patch in pvp. The meta condi necro build was barely touched, except for the fear trait. Although I'd rather that not be the only condi build burned to the ground in the game. This patch only had one message: Necros aren't supposed to rezz and we're gonna make sure they don't!