Upcoming Balance Notes

[mistsim.2748]

GUYS, please remember to buff LESSER Seed of Life as well. Up to two condis removed. Much appreciated.

 

Also remember that Glyphs are in a pretty rough shape. You'll need to buff them all across the board if you want us to use them.

[Makuragee.3058]

> @"BoostedFC.6812" said:

> I dont really see the point of this change. Speed of Synergy: This trait has been reworked. It will now grant superspeed for 5 seconds to allies in a radius of 240 around the engineer when using a healing skill. Using a healing tool-belt skill grants the engineer 7 seconds of superspeed.

 

Its a huge nerf to power scrapper, now it will be way harder to maintain a reasonable superspeed uptime those loosing 5% damage...

[Makuragee.3058]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> I mean sry but buffing anything that can be used by Holos is just plain stupid atm. Same for Necro but ty for the free no brain needed Top 10 title next season i guess. The teleport changes for Rev are just stupid, make them useless pretty much, and why Thief teleports are not ruined too? Inconsistent nonsense once again. And the Rev teleports where not the issue. Condirev doesn't even use most of them. Another bad change makes another class unnecessary clunky and destroys gameplay flow (ignore my writing about Rev teleports when i misunderstood them and it is only a quality of life change and they will still work through walls).

>

> What is needed instead, are insane sustain reductions on Condirev, Necros and even Eles and maybe some others (DH bunker). Some dmg reduction on grenates and a look at explosive traitline for Holo, sure no defensive buffs for Engi (shield is good enough already). Dmg reduction on Lich. Nothing else. Except for Mesmer elites nothing needs buffs at this point, not even Warrior. A nerf to the broken stuff like Condirev would have been enough to bring him back.

>

> Grats to Chrono players, at least they aditted this nonsense and changed it. Hf Mirage players to fight vs stronger classes with more sustain and more dmg with still only one dodge.

 

Its not a shield buff, but a nerf to be honest, over shiled look way more bad than it is. Lets be honest it will in principale hurt support engineer more than Holo :pensive:

[Makuragee.3058]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> weaver is dead in guilds and almost unwanted in squads. Revs do the same amount of damage, while pushing boons like mad

> Scrappers with their bombs also push out massive damage, while bringing stealth.

>

> Balanced?

> Scrapper is prefered over tempest by many, if not most because you have to be an excellent tempest to outcleanse a decent scrapper - and the scrapper brings stealth and and gyros.

>

> Balanced?

>

> Warrior: gunflame hits for 22k

>

> Balanced?

>

> Thief: Vault 11k per hit.

>

> Balanced?

>

> Thief: Attack from stealth and if you do not succeed, just retreat into stealth. No risk, massive reward.

>

> Balanced?

>

> Mirages can keep 3,4 people busy and just retreat whenever they want.

>

> Balanced?

>

> So ANET HATES eles, and loves engi, warrior, guard, mesmer and thieves.

>

> Balanced?

>

> This patch is another bad joke. I request ANET FINALLY adressing the real problem classes once and for all.

>

> Which means: either reduce rev damage a lot, or their boon output. Reduce damage out of stealth. Make fleeing into stealth not a thing (by, for example, reducing speed by 80% and make the thief/mesmer unable to port with shadowstep etc). Hit scrapper with two nerf hammers.

 

As an engi main I would not say they love us, they just forgot we exist and some time to time they throw a random thing in our stuff just to say hi! This patch hurt more than it buff trust me, nobody is playing with pistol or flamethrower XD

[Orion Templar.4589]

For the most part these proposed changes sound good to me. One especially that I really liked seeing was that Sevenshot is changing to foe-targeted. Yeah! The feedback I wanted to add is could we please also have similar treatment for Coalescence of Ruin? I'd really like for CoR to be foe-targeted and not ground-targeted.

[Bealis.6023]

What is going on with that reduction in power/condi dmg while merged with ferocious/deadly pet? I though that was the main point of merging with those pets, to get more dmg as part of the spec mechanic while sacrificing the controled pet. The numbers are supposed to be lower in comparison with what?

[Dadnir.5038]

Probably the worst patch I've ever seen in 7 year. I'd think it's an April's fools if we weren't in July already.

 

- It start with elementalist being robed of yet another of it's source of Fury and given a trait that proc damage when the sPvP forum is yet again on a witch hunt for those kind of traits. _I face slapped!_

- Then we got engineer with more condition damage and scrapper with more barrier. _My heart sank._

- Followed by PvE nerfs for the guardian and PvP/WvW buff. _I laughed there, truly._

- Chronomancer ended up getting some surprisingly good changes. I wouldn't say that it was the best solution but it's a solution. _I started to feel better here._

- Necromancer... How should I say... Are you insane? How do you even expect to salvage such change after you have them live? _I lost faith in humanity there._

- Ranger have surprisingly tamed number tweaks. _I guess it's 'ok' in order to see how things goes._

- Some QoL on revenant. _It's ok._

- Thief... _Work in progress._

- Warrior, I doubt the PvE change are what's needed for the warrior, PvP change will probably only have a minor impact at best. _Not impressed, especially after the rollercoaster from elementalist to necromancer._

 

Don't release that, please!

[Geoff Fey.1035]

> @"Fire Attunement.9835" said:

> Greetings fellow Tyrians!

> Quick comment, **these release notes are not complete and in particular thief has more changes that we weren’t able to get localized for this early posting**.

 

Localization is the process of adapting something for a specific region or language by translating text and adding locale-specific components. Based on this, it's possible they simply ran out of time to get everything cobbled together and written out in a way that's concise for the community to review.

 

Rose Tinted ~~Glasses~~ Underwater Rebreather: There might be a swackload of additional stuff that's being tweaked and they didn't have time to write it out. It's possible the focus was on stretching out the development/implementation schedule as much as humanly possible and then someone remembered ANet's promise to give a preview before implementation so this write-up was rushed out last second.

 

~~Devil's~~ Asura's Advocate: It's possible this is the entirety of the balance patch (minus Thieves who are confirmed to have more changes), which would be unfortunate.

 

I do completely understand the frustration, but we don't need the callouts saying "ANet needs to balance themselves" and "this destroys the game (mode that I like)". Remember the updates right before HoT was announced? They messed around with quite a few traits and skills and it really broke things down for a while before we learned to deal with it, it got fixed/changed, and new stuff got introduced.

 

If this does turn out to be all the changes that are scheduled, hopefully they take note of the more constructive posts and try to tweak things in Aug/Sept if possible

[Zeesh.7286]

Wow wow wow. More Ele nerfs? Last I checked Ele does not give out might stacks to a party. That wasn't even the role and even after this patch I doub't this change will make them a meta might stacking support LMAO.

 

They nerfed Meteor shower ages ago. What about meteor shower makes it OP Anet?? A minor change in meteor shower to remove the damage reduction on each hit cannot be reversed. At least let us channel it while moving or insta cast. DO SOMETHING??? MAKE STAFF COMPETITIVE AGAIN PLEASE. It was barely able to do something in WvW after the last balance patch. I would come up once or twice in the top 5 dps if I could pull off a complicated Meteor shower + lava font + Glyph of storms + Fiery Great Sword rotation without dying because the meteor alone made me stand still with 3 full 50 people zergs all around me :) Meanwhile the necros and revs just pressed buttons and poof they racked up damage WHILE giving extra buffs and utility to the squad. Staff is pretty much useless in SPVP and PATHETIC in PVE compared to sword weavers. I only used it in WvW and even that was a niche 1-2 hour window when there were decent blobs and zergs. And, No I don't want to camp water attunement as a tempest in full minstrels and spam staff 1 to gloat about healing numbers when that healing is nothing compared to the multi front support and utility that a FB and cleansing scrapper brings.

 

STAFF WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MAGE WEAPON FFS. ITS THE MOST MAGE LIKE THING. FIX STAFF DAMAGE PLEASE!

[Virdo.1540]

Maybe think about the idea of reworking the Herald-Trait "forceful persistence"

 

Into "get % more damage based on single pips, not based on types of upkeeps", so it would be equal to _rising momentum_ and _hardening persistence_

 

make it +3% damage per Pip in PvE and +2% per PiP in PvP&WvW

 

In this case it wouldnt make any difference to pvp&wvw, since it wont be used at all anyway

but it would make quite an difference in PvE. In PvE, herald would get an Damage-buff of max. +10% ,if damage-trait got chosen over boon-support.

 

Please think about it. We heralds are bottom dps-tier in pve.

We want to be taken into end-content & we want to be taken serious.

[Vornollo.5182]

Shade getting re-buffed and (Winds of) Disenchantment gets no nerfs...

Condi builds still burst just as hard as Power builds do with much less skill required.

The Patch is interesting (especially for Chrono) but it's very lacking where it matters.

Condition duration isn't so much the issue, it's the short-term scaling of damage compared to the required ability of actually landing them.

[Black Storm.6974]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"DirtyDan.4759" said:

> > > The necros changes are proof that ArenaNet does not even realize WvW is still in the game. Shade skills triggering on scourge and on the shade was a huge problem until February and now you bring it back in addition to reduce all well cooldowns baseline. No communication with cmc, the only good skill balance dev.

> > Problem is, the previous change was good for WvW, but ignored PvE and PvP. That's the core of the issue - a change that was good for one mode, turned out to be a massive nerf for two other modes, including the mode where Necro was already way too underpowered compared to other classes (which, funnily enough, was also the mode with most players).

> >

> > > I am dissappointed in the way you ignore not only your community but also your own coworkers.

> > And i am disappointed in the way a lot of balance changes that were made with WvW in mind made a mess of things in PvE. ignoring a way bigger part of the community. Funny how that works.

> >

> > At this point they should probably start working on a way that would allow them to split whole mechanics, and not only coefficients, because it's clear that a proper balance just cannot be made without some mechanics and skills working completely differently between modes.

> >

>

> Pvp and pve characters from gw1 comes to mind, if they cant balance with numbers without a gamemode suffering at any given time then completely split them.

 

I think that splitting the game modes completely would lower a lot an already low PvP population. That split is something only few people want, it is also completely unnecessary. Splitting numbers is more than enough.

Instead, I’d appreciate more communication between PvP and PvE balance teams, because we already have unnecessary splits (example: necromancer Axe skill 3 with different threshold between PvP and PvE, it could be 50% in both, I don’t see why it should not be 50% in PvE).

 

Also, the Scourge change that was reverted was good for PvE support Scourge, it was mainly bad for PvP and WvW because it destroyed the possibility of playing in a support role there. Now that ArebaNet reverted it, they can think to a better solution.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Got to say that the proposed warrior changes are _interesting_. Many of us laughed at the 'aggressive' approach because, while all are steps in the right direction and are positive things and are welcome anyway (seriously :+1: ), they do not go far enough. I hope that when you data mine the results of this patch you realize that more is needed and act a tad more quickly on it.

 

There is a wealth of discussion in the warrior forum to parse through to get a feel of where the warrior community feels the class is lacking and where the community feels the class needs help in order to succeed in this game. Please go dig into these threads some more, or even communicate with some of us directly.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

I just want to point something out that I think pretty visibly illustrates that ANet just...they need some better perspective of their game, and of themselves.

 

> Ferocious Archetype (Soulbeast): Reduced power increase gained while merged with Ferocious archetype pets by 25% (200 to 150 at level 80) in PvE only.

 

Now apply that upcoming change to I would say a fairly strong Soulbeast build for Raids, note that I pulled this from Snowcrows so I take no credit for the build whatsoever.

 

Take this build;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAgeFlZwuYbMQmJWuX7P/RkG-zRIYR09XIdmA1GCVUB2eQCj/Wi4MC-e

 

Apply 15 stacks of Might (which is, honestly, easily achievable and sustainable in a Raid or other instanced content scenario) while Merged; 3688 Power **right now**.

After the change? 3638 Power. In PvE. :/

 

These would be the damage calculations for Maul against [Qadim the Peerless](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Qadim_the_Peerless);

**Now:** 1100 x 3688 x 1.75 / 1374 = 5,166.95 damage

**After:** 1100 x 3638 x 1.75 / 1374 = 5,096.90 damage

 

Out of Beast Mode and without the 15 stacks of Might its 2888 Power **right now**.

After the change its 2838.

 

Same calculations as before;

**Now:** 1100 x 2888 x 1.75 / 1374 = 4,046.14 damage

**After:** 1100 x 2838 x 1.75 / 1374 = 3,976.09 damage

 

I fail to see how this affects anything at all in addressing the "Damage-build soulbeasts have been unleashing numbers that are higher than they should be." issue they themselves outline. The change in average damage values is **minimal** and does **nothing** and none of it is accounting for **any** critical hits that they **will** be dealing with any duration of Fury active on them.

 

ANet honestly baffles me with this stuff. They really do.

[Windscar.1429]

> @"Windscar.1429" said:

 

> The special herald skill Facet of Nature looks good for team with **_ancient echo_** apparently, but in fact the effect that facet can provide is very dispensable. The benefit you gain by trading off herald's dps and skill usage (cause keep F2 on will consume lots of energy) is so low that nobody will select it in team fight.

 

Suck my mistyping, the right word replaced Ancient echo is **Draconic echo**, Just want to fix this.

 

Wish one day Herald will be good in PVE mode, no need to be Tier 1 class, playable and worthwhile to pick is enough.

 

:persevere:

 

 

[Donari.5237]

I'm approaching this as a PvE player who mouse-moves and thus has real problems dropping multiple shades (I use snap-to-target, which is great for one aoe, terrible for placing elsewhere). From that viewpoint, the return to necro-location shade effects is *wonderful* since I trait to use just one giant shade anyway and now I can move my body to somewhere else to get barrier or deal with small things harassing me while I work on the big target.

 

But I see from comments that people who can drop multiple shades have been a problem in competitive modes, so I have a couple of spit-ball ideas.

 

Disable necro-location effects in competitive modes.

OR disable necro-location effects when using the three-shades version of the skill, those three spots should be enough.

OR disable necro-location effects when the necro is inside a shade's area of effect so it doesn't go to 10 targets as people are complaining about.

 

Just some possibilities, people who understand the mechanics and problems of the shades might easily poke holes in them.

[mistsim.2748]

Hi guys, me again.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm certain: if you don't buff Lesser Seed of Life as well, your Seed of Life buff is entirely useless.

 

Access to CA is limited and short. If you want us to use glyphs, you need to buff Lesser Seed. If you do, then we won't be pidgeon-holed into Wilderness utilities. If you don't buff Lesser Seed, then people will continue not to use glyphs.

 

Glyphs on their own are very weak, and they are only decent with Verdant Etching.

 

Again, my suggestion is to buff Lesser SoL to TWO condi cleanses. This would make glyphs somewhat usable.

 

Thanks for considering this.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"DirtyDan.4759" said:

> > > > The necros changes are proof that ArenaNet does not even realize WvW is still in the game. Shade skills triggering on scourge and on the shade was a huge problem until February and now you bring it back in addition to reduce all well cooldowns baseline. No communication with cmc, the only good skill balance dev.

> > > Problem is, the previous change was good for WvW, but ignored PvE and PvP. That's the core of the issue - a change that was good for one mode, turned out to be a massive nerf for two other modes, including the mode where Necro was already way too underpowered compared to other classes (which, funnily enough, was also the mode with most players).

> > >

> > > > I am dissappointed in the way you ignore not only your community but also your own coworkers.

> > > And i am disappointed in the way a lot of balance changes that were made with WvW in mind made a mess of things in PvE. ignoring a way bigger part of the community. Funny how that works.

> > >

> > > At this point they should probably start working on a way that would allow them to split whole mechanics, and not only coefficients, because it's clear that a proper balance just cannot be made without some mechanics and skills working completely differently between modes.

> > >

> >

> > Pvp and pve characters from gw1 comes to mind, if they cant balance with numbers without a gamemode suffering at any given time then completely split them.

>

> I think that splitting the game modes completely would lower a lot an already low PvP population. That split is something only few people want, it is also completely unnecessary. Splitting numbers is more than enough.

 

Consider that the playerbase is already low because of the relatively poor balance choices, in an attempt to please diff parts of the game some have suffered and adding functionality to skills is almost never a good thing because it affects the gamemodes differently.

 

> Instead, I’d appreciate more communication between PvP and PvE balance teams, because we already have unnecessary splits (example: necromancer Axe skill 3 with different threshold between PvP and PvE, it could be 50% in both, I don’t see why it should not be 50% in PvE).

>

> Also, the Scourge change that was reverted was good for PvE support Scourge, it was mainly bad for PvP and WvW because it destroyed the possibility of playing in a support role there. Now that ArebaNet reverted it, they can think to a better solution.

 

Clearly it wasnt enough when the devs feel like they need to bring back functionality that some ppl in pve miss but ppl in pvp and wvw despise and the removal of it was to begin with the solution presented.

Numbers can only go so far and a couple years since the split balancing began and one could argue things are still tough to nail for 3 gamemodes.

 

I also thing the notion that ppl that play pvp also play pve and wvw is not entirely true and it would be benefitial to have more tailored gameplay experiences for the gamemodes.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

> > >

> > > Is it christmas already?

> > > /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

> > >

> > You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

> >

>

> Not on a 5-10 second cool down (Skill/legend Swap) at 1200 range, followed up by an unblockable quickness burst, immob to disable dodges, and then a skill that glues them onto you with Sword 3, even if you happen to have a way of teleporting out yourself (which they then after a short time waiting for energy/legend swap can just keep sheer endlessly porting after you again anyway).

>

> Especially with 4 Revs in about every Plat game this is just getting way too oppressive, especially on maps like Niflhel where they can bypass the entire map terrain, turning the whole rotational and positioning gameplay into a joke.

>

> It's hardly the same as one Thief going for decaps and +1's with that being about it, or a rare Guard porting once a minute.

> That said, even though Rev is way out of line with being an issue with this, yes, I do think all skills should adhere to the LoS rules in PvP.

> But if you want to compare it to other Professions and keep the LoS bypasses, giving Phase Traversal a ~30 sec CD and removing the Quickness certainly would be a step in right direction.

 

You realize thief is far worse about this, right? You're severely understating the amount of ways thief can ignore LoS with ports. Join the club in saying rev utilities are overloaded, we've been trying to get them toned down for years because Anet thinks just increasing energy costs is the solution.

 

Back to thief, they have far more port options and can be done more often than rev. Steal, Infiltrators Signet, Sb5, Portal, Shadowstep, and sword 2 all ignore LoS, port when out of range, and have varying levels of benefits like immobilize, CC, boon stealing, etc. In the case of Shortbow and Sword 2, they can be done more often than Phase Traversal, especially in swords case and it can just poof away too. Shortbow can only go up and through floors and not walls, but it doesn't even need a target to do so. If we're fixing LoS on rev, thief needs to be done at the same time. Stop understating the comparisons.

[Doggie.3184]

Any plans to make Thief Pistol Trait not a useless self-nerf, I mean I can't swap it out mid boss battle or anytime there's only one target so why the -damage? And pierce skills on Bullets arch upwards on large enemies and miss things behind them so Ricochet was a much better AoE mechanic for bullets. Sword weapon sets are pretty useless in PvE with the stealth attack serving little purpose and idk if Pistol/Dagger will ever be a thing in PvE since launch. I often wonder why you make PvP only weapon sets by design on a class with very little weapon choices compared to others.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> I'm approaching this as a PvE player who mouse-moves and thus has real problems dropping multiple shades (I use snap-to-target, which is great for one aoe, terrible for placing elsewhere). From that viewpoint, the return to necro-location shade effects is *wonderful* since I trait to use just one giant shade anyway and now I can move my body to somewhere else to get barrier or deal with small things harassing me while I work on the big target.

>

> But I see from comments that people who can drop multiple shades have been a problem in competitive modes, so I have a couple of spit-ball ideas.

>

> Disable necro-location effects in competitive modes.

> OR disable necro-location effects when using the three-shades version of the skill, those three spots should be enough.

> OR disable necro-location effects when the necro is inside a shade's area of effect so it doesn't go to 10 targets as people are complaining about.

>

> Just some possibilities, people who understand the mechanics and problems of the shades might easily poke holes in them.

 

The main reason it was nerfed in the first place was due to the coverage, the secondary reason was the damage and conditions. ANet bring back the coverage and keep everything else, so players will complain. Bringing back the self shade isn't a bad thing in itself, however the area denial philosophy of the mechanic need to go if they want such a move to be accepted. Let's hope that amongst the unlisted change it is adressed.

[lea.8021]

I only play roaming in WvW, every day I see rangers and thieves getting around 25 charges of bleeding and 16 of poison in 1 or 2 seconds, that among other conditions, and revenants of 10 to 25 charges of torment per second apart from other conditions . A set power that does not carry hardness and only some vitality cannot kill instantly and it seems good to me, but a set to conditions that is made up of half of its statistics for hardness and vitality if it can, which shows a great imbalance between power and conditions.

Another thing, the cancer that has become the deadeye since they put continuous invisibility in a class that has a range of absurd damage distance, both in combat or when one remains hidden in towers or fortresses to transport allies, since thanks to their permanent invisibility and mobility it is very difficult to catch them.

[Asum.4960]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

> > > >

> > > > Is it christmas already?

> > > > /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

> > > >

> > > You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

> > >

> >

> > Not on a 5-10 second cool down (Skill/legend Swap) at 1200 range, followed up by an unblockable quickness burst, immob to disable dodges, and then a skill that glues them onto you with Sword 3, even if you happen to have a way of teleporting out yourself (which they then after a short time waiting for energy/legend swap can just keep sheer endlessly porting after you again anyway).

> >

> > Especially with 4 Revs in about every Plat game this is just getting way too oppressive, especially on maps like Niflhel where they can bypass the entire map terrain, turning the whole rotational and positioning gameplay into a joke.

> >

> > It's hardly the same as one Thief going for decaps and +1's with that being about it, or a rare Guard porting once a minute.

> > That said, even though Rev is way out of line with being an issue with this, yes, I do think all skills should adhere to the LoS rules in PvP.

> > But if you want to compare it to other Professions and keep the LoS bypasses, giving Phase Traversal a ~30 sec CD and removing the Quickness certainly would be a step in right direction.

>

> You realize thief is far worse about this, right? You're severely understating the amount of ways thief can ignore LoS with ports. Join the club in saying rev utilities are overloaded, we've been trying to get them toned down for years because Anet thinks just increasing energy costs is the solution.

>

> Back to thief, they have far more port options and can be done more often than rev. Steal, Infiltrators Signet, Sb5, Portal, Shadowstep, and sword 2 all ignore LoS, port when out of range, and have varying levels of benefits like immobilize, CC, boon stealing, etc. In the case of Shortbow and Sword 2, they can be done more often than Phase Traversal, especially in swords case and it can just poof away too. Shortbow can only go up and through floors and not walls, but it doesn't even need a target to do so. If we're fixing LoS on rev, thief needs to be done at the same time. Stop understating the comparisons.

 

My point is simply that Thief is less oppressive while having those ports as that's mainly all they do, port around for decaps and +1's, meanwhile Rev has incredible teamfight potential, burst for roaming, sustain, CC etc.

 

If Thief with it's mobility had things like Infuse Light and the same teamfight potential and CC as well as 1vs1 capabilities as Rev it would obviously be even more broken, but it doesn't.

 

Idc if Anet tones down Rev's mobility, CC, burst, utility or sustain, but at least one of those needs to take a hit to balance out for how strong it is at all the others imo.

For all I care they can buff Revs mobility to compete with Thief or smth, but then they need to nuke it's sustain, CC and burst.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > > > > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > > > > Phase Traversal: This skill now performs a pathing check before activation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is it christmas already?

> > > > > /E: Apparently this does not mean that Rev can't teleport through half the map terrain without LOS for an unblockable quickness burst anymore, but rather that the skill won't trigger a CD if it can't somehow find a "path", so big F.

> > > > >

> > > > You realize rev isn’t the only class that can go through walls without LOS, right? I hope you’re as zealous about removing teleports through walls for all classes that can do it and not just revenant, since if it’s a “broken mechanic” then it should be removed for all classes. But the truth is it’s not a broken mechanic and it’s really just a L2P awareness issue so shouldn’t be removed

> > > >

> > >

> > > Not on a 5-10 second cool down (Skill/legend Swap) at 1200 range, followed up by an unblockable quickness burst, immob to disable dodges, and then a skill that glues them onto you with Sword 3, even if you happen to have a way of teleporting out yourself (which they then after a short time waiting for energy/legend swap can just keep sheer endlessly porting after you again anyway).

> > >

> > > Especially with 4 Revs in about every Plat game this is just getting way too oppressive, especially on maps like Niflhel where they can bypass the entire map terrain, turning the whole rotational and positioning gameplay into a joke.

> > >

> > > It's hardly the same as one Thief going for decaps and +1's with that being about it, or a rare Guard porting once a minute.

> > > That said, even though Rev is way out of line with being an issue with this, yes, I do think all skills should adhere to the LoS rules in PvP.

> > > But if you want to compare it to other Professions and keep the LoS bypasses, giving Phase Traversal a ~30 sec CD and removing the Quickness certainly would be a step in right direction.

> >

> > You realize thief is far worse about this, right? You're severely understating the amount of ways thief can ignore LoS with ports. Join the club in saying rev utilities are overloaded, we've been trying to get them toned down for years because Anet thinks just increasing energy costs is the solution.

> >

> > Back to thief, they have far more port options and can be done more often than rev. Steal, Infiltrators Signet, Sb5, Portal, Shadowstep, and sword 2 all ignore LoS, port when out of range, and have varying levels of benefits like immobilize, CC, boon stealing, etc. In the case of Shortbow and Sword 2, they can be done more often than Phase Traversal, especially in swords case and it can just poof away too. Shortbow can only go up and through floors and not walls, but it doesn't even need a target to do so. If we're fixing LoS on rev, thief needs to be done at the same time. Stop understating the comparisons.

>

> My point is simply that Thief is less oppressive while having those ports as that's mainly all they do, port around for decaps and +1's, meanwhile Rev has incredible teamfight potential, burst for roaming, sustain, CC etc.

>

> If Thief with it's mobility had things like Infuse Light and the same teamfight potential and CC as well as 1vs1 capabilities as Rev it would obviously be even more broken, but it doesn't.

>

> Idc if Anet tones down Rev's mobility, CC, burst, utility or sustain, but at least one of those needs to take a hit to balance out for how strong it is at all the others imo.

> For all I care they can buff Revs mobility to compete with Thief or smth, but then they need to nuke it's sustain, CC and burst.

 

So we're going to apply arbitrary conditions for all class ports behaving the same way? At what point are those things sufficiently nerfed to the point it's justified giving rev back its LoS capabilities, or saying that now other classes have to follow the same rules?

 

All of those things are 100% irrelevant. No matter how strong a class is, they all should follow the same basic combat rules regardless of how strong it is or the class as a whole. There is no justification for rev to be singled out for LoS nerfs on its 2 ports when every other class gets a pass. Either they all should get it or none of them.

[Orchee.4850]

You are nerfing one of the (if not, the) hardest rotations to perform correctly in the entire game, because...? It performs well at Raids? Do you guys (@ANet) understand how few Condi Weavers actually participate in Raids? Those who have mastered the rotation shouldn't be punished.

 

If Condi Weave was 10-20% higher than the next best condi build (or even the meta for most raid bosses, lmao), I wouldn't complain, but DD literally presses 5 buttons and gets the -5% DPS less as a power build.

This is really dissapointing. Not only because you needlessly nerfed an Open World build, but because there is SO MUCH NOTHING in this patch.

 

## **Stop toying with random things and pretending you're balancing the game.**

##

And because others are more eloquent than myself, here are some thoughts from others that I agree with:

 

 

> Nerfed condi weaver in PVE for what? Condi Quickbrand will now do almost does same damage with way easier rotation, you just proved again that you balance classes based on SC golem benchmark numbers.

 

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> Yeah I have no idea what they are thinking. It's so rare you see a weaver in raids these days (I mean, power dps is a bit of a meme in comparison to soulbeast and holo right now), and even rarer to see a condi weaver amongst all the firebrands and rens. But yet they decide to pick on it?

 

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> Makes no sense at all. Leave Ele alone :(

 

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>

 

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> This is probably the worst patch you've ever made

 

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> aw yes,nerfing the burn weaver by 25% and giving revenants ability to legend swap mid-air,truly the changes we all asked for and begged for every day,thanks anet!

 

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> I do wonder if they even watch tournaments or play the game themselfs ,or just throw darts at the board to make balance decisions.

 

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> And again, once again the Elementalist changes are only in Fire and change the CD of some skills. Why that? Earth, Arcane and Water has been untouched for so long.

 

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> I've never been angry about any ele nerfs, but I'm angry about this one.

 

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> You're removing our ability to build might stacks for what? Just for group content? Because raids are all that matter? Have you actually thought about what it feels like for people who play by themselves and don't really do raids? Do you think all eles just camp fire unless they're in raids???? It already takes effort to build up a decent might stack without doing prestacking, and now we don't even get to keep it? For what??? What did it hurt? Who did it hurt???? I'm not even asking that we should be able to build and keep 25 stacks effortlessly, but you LITERALLY MADE THE ONLY DAMAGE COEFFICIENT TRAIT IN FIRE REQUIRE 10 MIGHT STACKS. And that's the exact amount you remove. The hell? Are we all supposed to run around with a friend to keep our might up now?? What the hell? Why did you think this was a good idea??? Suppose we get do the work to build up might stacks, now we're supposed to avoid attuning to any other elements or lose them???? Or hey, we build might stacks using arcane trait, OOPS we attuned to fire, oh kitten we're going to lose them all. How does that even work??? Do the only ele players in your balance team camp fire?????? What the HELL.

 

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> I'm angry about your balance team like I've never been before. I've never complained about balance changes. I want to be positive to you and I've always thought you got more kitten than you deserve. But this is like....it's not just a nerf to one or two skills. It's not a nerf to damage overperformance. It's a nerf to the whole playstyle of the class, the constant elemental attunement change, the one thing that made it the best caster class I've ever played. For no reason. It's not as if ele is a mainstay of any game mode atm, it's pretty niche. There's no reason. What the hell, Anet.

 

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> You are screwing up elementalists as if the game has been broken by that class. You are not fixing condi thief in PvP. Sigh...also, what was wrong with having firebrand be a great healer? What a balance patch. What comes to mind about it as a conclusion is that you all must be experiencing a total eclipse in terms of true creativity.

 

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> Removing elementalist's ability to stack fury in fire fields essentially removes meaningful fury support from ele entirely, and the changes to Pyromancer's Puissance really don't make up for it at all. Ele can already share a lot of might and doesn't really need to be able to share more, especially not at the expense of its own.

 

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> Nerfing Persisting Flames is fair enough, but as far as useful support-oriented alternatives go, we really need something better than this.

 

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> Is the Elementalist balanced?

> I'm comparing with Daredevil but every other class has the same effect.

> Weaver

> Daredevil

 

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> Like, were people really complaining about how OP Elementalist is in the raiding community? Being new, I haven't had a chance to even jump into that kind of content, but is this some rampant issue that forced the balance team to make the choice? I'd really like to know, if anyone has some answers! lol

 

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