All I see is DE Rifle hate...why?

[Luclinraider.2317]

I think I've seen 2 DE other than myself in the last 100 matches, and they are both new players running P/P

They are non-existant on Meta-Battle.

They don't exist on crows accept as a Fire for Effect Boon bot.

DD, Core/Condi I'd say are 98% of the thief play in both WvW, PvE and SPvP....with 1.5% being DE P/P for open world easy farm, and that last 0.5% being those of us trying so hard to make DE Rifle Viable.

People complain about Death's Judgement, but it's the most projected move in the game (literally), and can be easily dodged, blocked, or reflected.

I just don't understand how all I see are nerf thief threads, and when I go into them expecting to see DD and Condi....I see people complaining about DE DJ? Honestly, DJ isn't even a high damage move when you take One Wolf Pack into account. I've seen Soul Beasts with Sic'Em, One Wolf Pack, and Quickening do over 30k Damage in 2 seconds with no projection or warning....shoot...DJ takes 2 seconds just to fire lol.

Is this just low tier play that I'm seeing so much DJ complaining from? In all my time trying to make Rifle a viable PvP/PvE build I've found the most effective way is to never kneel outside of raids and in PvP to not even use DJ.

It just seems like the weakest of the thief specs...both in play seen and in numbers from both PvE and PvP (Crows and Meta Battle). But I fear it will never receive anything but further nerfs to already the weakest spec due to newer players who don't understand how important dodge, block, and reflect are in this game complaining. It's just like how you see newer players run 0 stun break and just get perma CC'd.....

What do you guys think? Is DE just going to be the worst Thief spec forever...especially with 3rd specializations probably starting to be revealed in the next few months, or is there hope?

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> (...)

> People complain about Death's Judgement, but it's the most projected move in the game (literally), and can be easily dodged, blocked, or reflected.

> (...)

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth would like to have a word. :lol:

 

I don't see any real hate against DE anymore to be honest. It is still unfun to play because of looong stealth duration (can you move or do you need to protect your point? Do you need defensive skills at the ready?). But as you say, the damage is not that high anymore, so it is made kind of weak enough to not get too annoyed anymore. Just... well, unfun.

 

I would actually prefer it having high single target damage but significantly less stealth/defense (why condi cleanse on the jump?). I prefer that over the current situation which is often just plain boring. I guess it would become too much of a noob filter though.

[Luclinraider.2317]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> > (...)

> > People complain about Death's Judgement, but it's the most projected move in the game (literally), and can be easily dodged, blocked, or reflected.

> > (...)

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth would like to have a word. :lol:

>

Lol, I can agree that's an extremely projected move as well. I dunno if it beats the Font size 72 Orange Death line that crosses the battlefield though.

I just keep seeing classes like Rev go back and forth between being one of the top 2 classes as power, now as condi, back to power, oh never mind, back to condi. And Condi/Power Rev just occupies one of the strongest spots month after month, in the meant time we have areas like DE Thief and our poor poor warriors that have been useless for like 2 years lol.

 

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Too high access to stealth with very high mobility and very high range + stupid elite skill which is a counter to a counter, uber dumb to say the least. Bad, toxic, stupid design that promotes cheesing, simple as that.

[Widmo.3186]

I read only title, about post - tldr

So, hate towards DE is not even comparable to what it was before, but let me explain:

-over 1.2k range

-knockdown from range skill

-immobilize spam from range skill

-counter to a counter (reveal mechanic denial)

-stealth on a fokin dodge. Let me say it one more time - stealth. On dodge. Stealth on dodge. Whole design of this spec is ridiculous from the very beginning, its still unhealthy but not comparable to what it was before with Malicious Backstab unnerfed and other things.

[Luclinraider.2317]

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> Too high access to stealth with very high mobility and very high range

>

I think D/x has more access to stealth than anything on rifle or DE. DD with Bounder also has more access to stealth than anything DE....and of course SB Blast with x/P offhand.

As for mobility.....DD with 3 dodges and especially with dash has WAY more mobility that anything DE.

I agree with the range....but we've been playing with Longbow Ranger for 8 years...don't see anyone complaining about that range lol.

 

 

[Luclinraider.2317]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> I read only title, about post - tldr

> So, hate towards DE is not even comparable to what it was before, but let me explain:

> -over 1.2k range

> -knockdown from range skill

>

The knock down is a huge cast time and taking one of your utility slots for a single target knock down that can be dodged leaves you very vulnerable.

Also, don't rangers have like 1500 range all the time with longbow?

Do all these things exist....yes....are they good when applied in actual pvp.....not really.

Again, I use the example of Beast mode, One Wolf Pack, Sic'Em, Quickening Z....30k + damage in 2 seconds....it exists....is it good....well for about 5 seconds every 60 ya....but really not viable except for blowing someone up and then standing in the corner for 55 seconds waiting for it.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> The knock down is a huge cast time and taking one of your utility slots for a single target knock down that can be dodged leaves you very vulnerable.

 

[Widmo.3186]

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> > @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > I read only title, about post - tldr

> > So, hate towards DE is not even comparable to what it was before, but let me explain:

> > -over 1.2k range

> > -knockdown from range skill

> >

> The knock down is a huge cast time and taking one of your utility slots for a single target knock down that can be dodged leaves you very vulnerable.

> Also, that range only comes while kneeling....a kneeling thief is a dead thief though lol.

> Do all these things exist....yes....are they good when applied in actual pvp.....not really.

> Again, I use the example of Beast mode, One Wolf Pack, Sic'Em, Quickening Z....30k + damage in 2 seconds....it exists....is it good....well for about 5 seconds every 60 ya....but really not viable except for blowing someone up and then standing in the corner for 55 seconds waiting for it.

 

You asked why ppl hate DE, not whether its useful in pvp or even popular. I answered your question, DE is an unhealthy spec and its design is dumb. Period

[Luclinraider.2317]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> > The knock down is a huge cast time and taking one of your utility slots for a single target knock down that can be dodged leaves you very vulnerable.

>

>

 

So....someone standing still, doing nothing...using no defensive abilites or even moving got knocked down.

I think we can apply this to any ability for any class though honestly....if I stand there and do nothing I bet I can get hit by every skill too...and I bet while I sit in the knock down and use no stun breaks I'll take lots of damage....

It just doesn't seem like very strong proof...it just seems like more of...ya...it exists. Is it viable in actual combat though.

[Luclinraider.2317]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> > > @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > > I read only title, about post - tldr

> > > So, hate towards DE is not even comparable to what it was before, but let me explain:

> > > -over 1.2k range

> > > -knockdown from range skill

> > >

> > The knock down is a huge cast time and taking one of your utility slots for a single target knock down that can be dodged leaves you very vulnerable.

> > Also, that range only comes while kneeling....a kneeling thief is a dead thief though lol.

> > Do all these things exist....yes....are they good when applied in actual pvp.....not really.

> > Again, I use the example of Beast mode, One Wolf Pack, Sic'Em, Quickening Z....30k + damage in 2 seconds....it exists....is it good....well for about 5 seconds every 60 ya....but really not viable except for blowing someone up and then standing in the corner for 55 seconds waiting for it.

>

> You asked why ppl hate DE, not whether its useful in pvp or even popular. I answered your question, DE is an unhealthy spec and its design is dumb. Period

 

I can agree! It is good to know why there's so much hate and I appreciate the responses. I guess I'm just trying to see the areas that people really hate and compare them to everything I've tested and how well it actually worked in combat.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> snip

 

It has no animation, whether you are moving or not. The video is literally titled "Bug".

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I dont hate them, just very rarely see u usefull one in pvp, there usually free food for my dp teef and if on my team they usually accomplish very little except getting farmed by the other team. In wvw DE design makes it suited well for roaming and with the almost spamable imob while kneeling with the high stealth access it can be frustrating for a lot of players to face a good DE in the open world

[Aktium.9506]

delete deadeye

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> Too high access to stealth with very high mobility and very high range + stupid elite skill which is a counter to a counter, uber dumb to say the least. Bad, toxic, stupid design that promotes cheesing, simple as that.

 

This. Deadeye is possibly the worst PvP design I've heard of in any game.

[Babylon.8972]

Only silver and gold players cry about Deadeye, ppl above plat 1 can counterplay it very easily.

[Fueki.4753]

Many people already hate Thieves for their high mobility and too much access to stealth, which in itself is way too strong.

Deadeye adds a maximum range weapon, which is something that many people also hate, on top of that runaway potential.

 

It should be obvious why Rifle Deadeyes are despised, even if they aren't all that effective.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Babylon.8972" said:

> Only silver and gold players cry about Deadeye, ppl above plat 1 can counterplay it very easily.

 

This^ even in gold they seem to get destroyed most of the time.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> It just seems like the weakest of the thief specs...both in play seen and in numbers from both PvE and PvP (Crows and Meta Battle). But I fear it will never receive anything but further nerfs to already the weakest spec due to newer players who don't understand how important dodge, block, and reflect are in this game complaining.

> What do you guys think? Is DE just going to be the worst Thief spec forever...especially with 3rd specializations probably starting to be revealed in the next few months, or is there hope?

 

~~Nice framing.~~

 

DE(RIFLE DE, at least) is to this game what Sonic is to Super smash brothers.

 

Relatively weak on paper, but draws the game out longer than they should, impossible to get caught with unless the player makes a plethora of mistakes, and nobody likes fighting it because __its often annoying rather than skillful.__ Skillful DEs exist, but they are often indistinguishable from those that press one of 4 escape buttons when someone is too close to them.

 

I stan thieves sometimes because I've seen them get nerfbatted frequently (people don't understand they can be outplayed), but let's not pretend that taking potshots at someone from 1200 range while they try to contest a point, only to leave whenever you want when people get near you is fun for anyone but the person playing that build.

 

Accept the salt that comes with it. you're longbow ranger but more obnoxious on rifle DE. It doesn't deserve any buffs at all.

[Bazsi.2734]

Rifle Deadeye is for GW2 what the minion memes are for meme culture. The only reason I still play it is to tilt people. The gameplay is sure not the reason, the last initative nerfs made it so that you only spam 2 buttons, and use one cooldown if someone tries to jump you. It's pretty dumb... while the spec had combos and rotations before, that had to go because the forum went REEEEE and a-net has no idea how to nerf without killing complexity. So now its 2 2 2 2 2 until you are low enough to die to a DJ.

 

Simple kit(and thats being generous), clear cut design with clear cut counters and limits, but by not crossing said limits you are basicly unkillable. Imagine seeing the enemy deadeye poking at you from max distance whenever he's safe, trolling with fake bursts untill you're out of defensive cooldowns, stealth rotating for decaps and +1-s, never overengage, never actually fighting you. And doing all this while using less skills than you have fingers on one hand. That must be super upsetting... _I wOuLdN't kNoW, I nEVeR BeFOre MAnAgED tO fIgHt A rANkED mATch aGaInSt mYSeLf._

[otto.5684]

Stealth + ranged burst from stealth + mobility. What could go wrong? Beside making the burst unblockable, LMAO.

 

To be fair, it is bad, and has been for a while. But the design makes it impossible to functionally work in sPvP without being utterly broken. It worked so much better when burst did not come from stealth and you did not gain stealth on dodge. With an exceptional few, everything Anet redesigned turned-up a fucking worse mess than the original.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> I think I've seen 2 DE other than myself in the last 100 matches, and they are both new players running P/P

> They are non-existant on Meta-Battle.

> They don't exist on crows accept as a Fire for Effect Boon bot.

> DD, Core/Condi I'd say are 98% of the thief play in both WvW, PvE and SPvP....with 1.5% being DE P/P for open world easy farm, and that last 0.5% being those of us trying so hard to make DE Rifle Viable.

> People complain about Death's Judgement, but it's the most projected move in the game (literally), and can be easily dodged, blocked, or reflected.

> I just don't understand how all I see are nerf thief threads, and when I go into them expecting to see DD and Condi....I see people complaining about DE DJ? Honestly, DJ isn't even a high damage move when you take One Wolf Pack into account. I've seen Soul Beasts with Sic'Em, One Wolf Pack, and Quickening do over 30k Damage in 2 seconds with no projection or warning....shoot...DJ takes 2 seconds just to fire lol.

> Is this just low tier play that I'm seeing so much DJ complaining from? In all my time trying to make Rifle a viable PvP/PvE build I've found the most effective way is to never kneel outside of raids and in PvP to not even use DJ.

> It just seems like the weakest of the thief specs...both in play seen and in numbers from both PvE and PvP (Crows and Meta Battle). But I fear it will never receive anything but further nerfs to already the weakest spec due to newer players who don't understand how important dodge, block, and reflect are in this game complaining. It's just like how you see newer players run 0 stun break and just get perma CC'd.....

> What do you guys think? Is DE just going to be the worst Thief spec forever...especially with 3rd specializations probably starting to be revealed in the next few months, or is there hope?

 

DE being single target only in pve then not being the best single target makes it a joke.

You need to constantly dodge and move in PvE so rifle is useless nearly all the time or waaay too difficult to use to warrant the effort.

P/P DE is really fun open world though, until you encounter a boss that you can't deadeye mark because it's an "object" then you go staff DD.

 

DE is just a complete failure of a spec in any organized PvE and was specifically made to troll PvP or for open world. It's pretty fun open world, zero fun to fight in pvp, and utterly useless in instanced PvE. It can 1v1 and team fight pretty well in SPvP - it's just not brainless like shadow arts daredevil d/p or condi thief so people don't even give it a try.

[saerni.2584]

DE is good if you bother to play it with weapons other than Rifle. Of course it still needs to be played synergistically but the fact remains that players who get stuck in Rifle as the be all end all of DE miss the huge advantages that the rest of the spec provides.

 

Rifle is ok. You can do something with it. That doesn’t mean you should camp rifle.

[XECOR.2814]

Rifle 4 should not exist as it lets you have extreme mobility which goes against the description of de. If it was some other skill not a mobility skill then rifle de would be kinda fine as it would actually tradeoff some things as compared to other thief builds. Immob spam is also aids but i think it would be fine if de gave up on mobility.

[ollbirtan.2915]

I can;t really remember the last time I saw / was annoyed by a rifle DE, honestly. They are quite easy to counter / avoid. If you fail to dodge / LoS etc when you hear and/or see their BIG BURST animation, then it's your fault.