Spellbreaker long duration daze spam is toxic

[felix.2386]

Only thanks to how trash core warrior kit is, that spellbreaker is getting away with this toxic mechanic tbh

it is literally unfun. as much unfun as fighting old fresh air as a warrior

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> Only thanks to how trash core warrior kit is, that spellbreaker is getting away with this toxic mechanic tbh

> it is literally unfun. as much unfun as fighting old fresh air as a warrior

 

Just don't attack when full counters up and use blinds, I find for me it shuts them down hard.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Just don't attack when full counters up and use blinds, I find for me it shuts them down hard.

 

Clones/minions/pets/turrets etc proc it sadly

 

Thankfully I have power block and their heal has long cast time. When I interrupt it, it becomes a billion year cooldown.

[felix.2386]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"felix.2386" said:

> > Only thanks to how trash core warrior kit is, that spellbreaker is getting away with this toxic mechanic tbh

> > it is literally unfun. as much unfun as fighting old fresh air as a warrior

>

> Just don't attack when full counters up and use blinds, I find for me it shuts them down hard.

 

ofc the thing that shuts toxic daze spamming is blind spamming the other toxic mechanic.

flashbang goes throw full counter also make no sense

[Kuma.1503]

Which daze skills in particular do you find toxic? Why do you think they're toxic? Optionally, what would you change about them? Even if a dev were to read this, there's no real feedback here.

 

Why complain about Spellbreaker in the first place? If I've learned anything from the forums it's that people really hate:

 

Perma sustain

Mindless Spam

Classes that pile AoE's onto node

 

In comes spellbreaker, a class with balanced sustain, readable telegraphs, and a mechanic that rewards smart play and punishes brainless spamming and piling AoE's on node. I'd argue that Spellbreaker being viable is good for the game.

[otto.5684]

Not only SB. Anet devs, in their infinite wisdom, thought we have too many CC breaks and stability. Enjoy being frozen. After all, it is Ice Brood Saga, even in spvp.

[felix.2386]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Which daze skills in particular do you find toxic? Why do you think they're toxic? Optionally, what would you change about them? Even if a dev were to read this, there's no real feedback here.

>

> Why complain about Spellbreaker in the first place? If I've learned anything from the forums it's that people really hate:

>

> Perma sustain

> Mindless Spam

> Classes that pile AoE's onto node

>

> In comes spellbreaker, a class with balanced sustain, readable telegraphs, and a mechanic that rewards smart play and punishes brainless spamming and piling AoE's on node. I'd argue that Spellbreaker being viable is good for the game.

 

first of all, full counter is a 2 second aoe daze with only 8 seconds cooldown..basically you are CC'ed for 2 seconds within every 8 second interval.

but this alone doesnt make spellbreaker annoying. (not going to mention how massive a sustain this single skill brings, because without it warrior is completely garbage)

dagger is a daze with 0 cast time, of course this one alone doesnt make it annoying

 

but, full counter being 2 second daze on a 8 second cooldown, with 12 second 0 cast time daze, on top of 24 second bullcharge and 20 second shieldbash, it is literally the definition of annoying, on top of rampage.

 

 

------------------------------

if you just make full counter does damage instead of dazing (which it should to begin with), it would be way more enjoyable for both players and i think it is enough.

i'm not even asking to put daze on dagger 2 instead to have an animation and make dagger 3 applie slow instead.

 

 

[Tycura.1982]

Oh yeah war is the big op. Pls nerf.

 

 

 

I'm kidding CMC please don't. I'm sorry for tempting you. No please no.

[Lucentfir.7430]

> @"Tycura.1982" said:

> Oh yeah war is the big op. Pls nerf.

>

>

>

> I'm kidding CMC please don't

 

Too late i think he wrote it down in his book of things to nerf, because warrior is clearly over performing.

[Tycura.1982]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > @"Tycura.1982" said:

> > Oh yeah war is the big op. Pls nerf.

> >

> >

> >

> > I'm kidding CMC please don't

>

> Too late i think he wrote it down in his book of things to nerf, because warrior is clearly over performing.

 

Oh yeah brother when I pick warrior the enemy team goes down in spawn and I get all 3 caps by default.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> first of all, full counter is a 2 second aoe daze with only 8 seconds cooldown..basically you are CC'ed for 2 seconds within every 8 second interval.

 

It's a 12s CD in PvP. Unless the wiki is wrong. [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Full_Counter)

[Kuma.1503]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > Which daze skills in particular do you find toxic? Why do you think they're toxic? Optionally, what would you change about them? Even if a dev were to read this, there's no real feedback here.

> >

> > Why complain about Spellbreaker in the first place? If I've learned anything from the forums it's that people really hate:

> >

> > Perma sustain

> > Mindless Spam

> > Classes that pile AoE's onto node

> >

> > In comes spellbreaker, a class with balanced sustain, readable telegraphs, and a mechanic that rewards smart play and punishes brainless spamming and piling AoE's on node. I'd argue that Spellbreaker being viable is good for the game.

>

> first of all, full counter is a 2 second aoe daze with only 8 seconds cooldown..basically you are CC'ed for 2 seconds within every 8 second interval.

> but this alone doesnt make spellbreaker annoying. (not going to mention how massive a sustain this single skill brings, because without it warrior is completely garbage)

> dagger is a daze with 0 cast time, of course this one alone doesnt make it annoying

>

> but, full counter being 2 second daze on a 8 second cooldown, with 12 second 0 cast time daze, on top of 24 second bullcharge and 20 second shieldbash, it is literally the definition of annoying, on top of rampage.

>

>

> ------------------------------

> if you just make full counter does damage instead of dazing (which it should to begin with), it would be way more enjoyable for both players and i think it is enough.

> i'm not even asking to put daze on dagger 2 instead to have an animation and make dagger 3 applie slow instead.

>

>

You would like Warrior to be changed because it has a plethora of CC which makes it frustrating to fight, even if not necessarily over-performing at the moment?

 

That's a fair point, and I don't necessarily disagree. The amount of time a Spellbreaker can lock you down for is insane if the stars align, and they've got several blocks and the ability to kite on top of that.

 

Why I don't think they're broken is because most of these CC's (Bull's Charge, Stomp, Shield 4, Full Counter) have very obvious tells. If you make a mistake against a spellbreaker, you feel it, but it's also very obvious why you died and what killed you. If the spellbreaker messes up, he's going to have to concede the node to you for a while, and it's very easy to tell when the spell breaker messed up or when you simply outplayed him.

 

It's a frustrating fight when everything goes wrong, but overall I'd rate spellbreaker as one of the more fun/fair classes to fight. They have a few skill with very light tells (looking at you Mace) but nothing egregious. Every class has at least a few skills that are difficult to avoid (_*cough* Steal_). That's the price you pay for fluid combat.

 

I don't think Spellbreaker needs to be nerfed, but I see where you're coming from.

 

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> Only thanks to how trash core warrior kit is, that spellbreaker is getting away with this toxic mechanic tbh

> it is literally unfun. as much unfun as fighting old fresh air as a warrior

 

Pretty sure you mean full counter, which does NO DAMAGE and is only a cc.. And in exchange you loose a good chunk of burst damage. Ontop of that Spellbreaker also hits far less hard than core, and core doesn't have to rely on gimmicks to get the job done. I mean spellbreaker used to be "gamebreaker" but now its just something you keep at a distance, or wait for full counter and then let it not proc.

 

I haven't had a single issue dealing with spellbreakers, and mine is alright but honestly doesn't feel that strong when compared to how he was. Core is lacking because they nerfed it first to try and nerf zerker and SB but it didn't work because Core was NOT the problem. Core was never the problem, as core has never been the issue with a majority of the classes in this game. But core is always where the nerfs strike first.

 

Id like to point out that despite warriors overwhelming CC, none do damage. And a good chunk of their weapons are hot garbage... such as hammer, rifle, bow, honestly mace with how things are right now. We are limited to mostly melee and this means we NEED cc to ensure we can get in, and do something because if we don't we'd be like poor little revenants in team fights. Were you just get bullied and ping-ponged around, SB does not allow for that and honestly I think warriors CC's SHOULD do damage. That should be THEIR special thing that puts them on a unique perspective, make them shape the battle and not the battle shape them and their approach. You should fear a warrior, they should be someone you DONT want to get into melee with.... but yet.... here we are.

[Shiyo.3578]

Agreed with full counter doing damage instead of dazing. That's a good suggestion and would help warrior a lot.

[Blocki.4931]

I'm in tears over this.

The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

 

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> I'm in tears over this.

> The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

>

 

It's actually underpowered BECAUSE it dazes. If it didn't daze, it could do damage.

 

Actually, why doesn't it do damage when other dazes do full damage...?

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > I'm in tears over this.

> > The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

> >

>

> It's actually underpowered BECAUSE it dazes. If it didn't daze, it could do damage.

>

> Actually, why doesn't it do damage when other dazes do full damage...?

 

Very much true actually.

It was nerfed before that balance patch, sadly :(

[Xueyou.5746]

A thief crying about warrior. Cringe.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Xueyou.5746" said:

> A thief crying about warrior. Cringe.

Not just that: about a spellbreaker. The easiest of the 3 warrior specs to deal with for a thief, because it deals the least amount of damage of the warrior specs.

 

If full counter was doing damage, then someone else would start to complain: "mimimi why does a skill that nullifies my attack, deals damage on top mimimi ... that's broken."

 

When spellbreaker was released people learned to think in 10 second intervalls and to dodge if they still triggered full counter and they could beat spellbreaker with that simple strategy.

 

Now since full counter does barely anything, the skill spam noobs are obvioulsy not punished enough to start to learn. So they want to erase this mechanic out of existence. That's the only explanation why it is even possible to complain about full counter after these endless amounts of nerfs.

 

Core warrior has more hard cc + burst opportunities than any build has stunbreaks and disengages. After all the stability nerfs this is now one of the strongest 1v1 specs in the game. Complain about that if about warrior at all!

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> I'm in tears over this.

> The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

>

 

I think its hilarious. I come to these forums to have a laugh nowadays.

[felix.2386]

> @"Tycura.1982" said:

> Oh yeah war is the big op. Pls nerf.

>

>

>

> I'm kidding CMC please don't. I'm sorry for tempting you. No please no.

 

i don't think you understand the point of this thread

 

> @"Xueyou.5746" said:

> A thief crying about warrior. Cringe.

 

obviously it is cringe when i had 4k+ ranked game played as warrior pre-HoT release and have been multi classer ever since and know about warrior 10x more then you.

i know why warrior is completely trashed and i know what would make warrior be desired in team comp, and it is not daze spam cheese.

 

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > I'm in tears over this.

> > The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

> >

>

> It's actually underpowered BECAUSE it dazes. If it didn't daze, it could do damage.

>

> Actually, why doesn't it do damage when other dazes do full damage...?

 

see some one actually get it,

people are so defensive of their mains that they can't see bigger picture.

daze spam is just toxic and unfun and cheese that doesnt make warrior any better.

it just make it more sustainable and more annoying to deal with thanks to this toxic mechanic on side node. that's it.

ofc it is fun for spellbreaker to fight other people while abusing this very thing, but i don't really want the only decent skill that allows warrior to compete with other classes being cheese

 

like when i said flamethrower perma stab scrapper is unhealthy, people be like " it's trash not meta" duh, does it matter? toxic is toxic, unhealthy is unhealthy.

[Lucentfir.7430]

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > I'm in tears over this.

> > > The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

> > >

> >

> > It's actually underpowered BECAUSE it dazes. If it didn't daze, it could do damage.

> >

> > Actually, why doesn't it do damage when other dazes do full damage...?

>

> see some one actually get it,

> people are so defensive of their mains that they can't see bigger picture.

> daze spam is just toxic and unfun and cheese that doesnt make warrior any better.

> it just make it more sustainable and more annoying to deal with thanks to this toxic mechanic on side node. that's it.

> ofc it is fun for spellbreaker to fight other people while abusing this very thing, but i don't really want the only decent skill that allows warrior to compete with other classes being cheese

>

> like when i said flamethrower perma stab scrapper is unhealthy, people be like " it's trash not meta" duh, does it matter? toxic is toxic, unhealthy is unhealthy.

 

I think the only reason why the daze was even put on Full Counter was to proc Dispelling Force(remove 1 boon on CC) mainly, then synergy for builds with "No Escape(Immob on daze or stun)" and weird condi builds using the old Distracting Strikes/Merciless Hammer(Confusion on interrupts which got removed). I wouldn't mind seeing the daze go, as long as FC gets some decent damage back and removes 1 boon innately on hit.

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > I'm in tears over this.

> > > > The spell that more often than not misses because of blinds or people either not procing it or from a distance, that deals 0 damage, is too op because it dazes for two seconds.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It's actually underpowered BECAUSE it dazes. If it didn't daze, it could do damage.

> > >

> > > Actually, why doesn't it do damage when other dazes do full damage...?

> >

> > see some one actually get it,

> > people are so defensive of their mains that they can't see bigger picture.

> > daze spam is just toxic and unfun and cheese that doesnt make warrior any better.

> > it just make it more sustainable and more annoying to deal with thanks to this toxic mechanic on side node. that's it.

> > ofc it is fun for spellbreaker to fight other people while abusing this very thing, but i don't really want the only decent skill that allows warrior to compete with other classes being cheese

> >

> > like when i said flamethrower perma stab scrapper is unhealthy, people be like " it's trash not meta" duh, does it matter? toxic is toxic, unhealthy is unhealthy.

>

> I think the only reason why the daze was even put on Full Counter was to proc Dispelling Force(remove 1 boon on CC) mainly, then synergy for builds with "No Escape(Immob on daze or stun)" and weird condi builds using the old Distracting Strikes/Merciless Hammer(Confusion on interrupts which got removed). I wouldn't mind seeing the daze go, as long as FC gets some decent damage back and removes 1 boon innately on hit.

At the start it had short daze so it can proc some boon removal and FULLCOUNTER was countering people by doing damage, but people kept dying to FULLCOUNTER so they overnerfed the damage and at some point they buffed the daze duration so the skill was doing its job of FULLCOUNTERING in another manner. I think it is really smart move by Arenanet for once, by keeping the idea of the skill without butchering it.

Did I mention that FULLCOUNTER is about countering and it works well against people that spam, wish more builds were Skill based as warrior and countered the common spam in the game right now cause the low effort high reward builds are the bane of the mode.

[Caedmon.6798]

Seriously though,its a Burst skill that needs adrenaline for it able to be used. And you ffing complain about it doing a 2 sec daze while it already does EXACTLY 0 damage ? How easy do people like you want this game to even become ? What if the daze gets shaved ? Its an 1 sec invuln ? GTFO.

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> Seriously though,its a Burst skill that needs adrenaline for it able to be used. And you ffing complain about it doing a 2 sec daze while it already does EXACTLY 0 damage ? How easy do people like you want this game to even become ? What if the daze gets shaved ? Its an 1 sec invuln ? GTFO.

Actually it is 1 attack 100% damage reduction not even full invuln.