NPCs

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> If you don't care enough to scout objectives, you don't care enough to keep them.

I am kind of leaning more towards it's too easy for me to take an objective. Ironically enough the only times I really care about defending objectives are the se and sw camp of borderlands, trying to upgrade the nearby tower while sieging the nearby keep, only because we are in the area. Anything else is never worth the time attempting to guard because they fall so easily, so don't bother upgrading even when those guild upgrades can be free from skirmish chests.

 

But in any case your comment still applies, 90% of the time I don't care enough to keep them, and it seems nearly every enemy server never seems to care enough to keep them because it's too easy to sneak nearby and flip it before they can react, hence my argument. I don't want them doing too much but they barely do ANYTHING currently, but again that's just my opinion(of the last 7 years, the first year they were fine).

[Junkpile.7439]

Maybe nerf build that wipe camp under 10 sec. It's much easier kill players who defend camp than npc:ees.

[Ubi.4136]

The game mode was designed after Dark Age of Camelot, yet they made the guards hit for 1/10th of what they did in that game. The guards should be fast (like superspeed x2), hit probably 5x harder than they do now, and see through stealth. I should not be able to kill an entire T3 camp in 12 seconds, yet, right now I can on certain classes.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> The game mode was designed after Dark Age of Camelot, yet they made the guards hit for 1/10th of what they did in that game. The guards should be fast (like superspeed x2), hit probably 5x harder than they do now, and see through stealth. I should not be able to kill an entire T3 camp in 12 seconds, yet, right now I can on certain classes.

 

Can show a vid on how to do this clean? I can do some work with burn guard but its pretty sketchy.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Dinas Dragonbane.2978" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > If you don't care enough to scout objectives, you don't care enough to keep them.

> I am kind of leaning more towards it's too easy for me to take an objective. Ironically enough the only times I really care about defending objectives are the se and sw camp of borderlands, trying to upgrade the nearby tower while sieging the nearby keep, only because we are in the area. Anything else is never worth the time attempting to guard because they fall so easily, so don't bother upgrading even when those guild upgrades can be free from skirmish chests.

>

> But in any case your comment still applies, 90% of the time I don't care enough to keep them, and it seems nearly every enemy server never seems to care enough to keep them because it's too easy to sneak nearby and flip it before they can react, hence my argument. I don't want them doing too much but they barely do ANYTHING currently, but again that's just my opinion(of the last 7 years, the first year they were fine).

 

You have never come across people putting golems and ballista in camps to defend? Or people laying mark traps in chokes? Or having a flood of people exit citadel to defend north camp? Must not roam much.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

They are more annoying than a threat. Random blinds/cripple and immobilize while fighter enemy defenders.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

It's easy enough to flip anything outside of a T3 camp....But camps should not hold themselves, you need to defend, and if you are at a camp that is being attacked, it should be easy to win the fight, while the NPC on their own melt, in a fight the CC and blind spam is a huge advantage. Learn to use marking traps for common paths into camps for warning, with warclaw it's very easy to get to a camp in time if you have some map awareness. I see people going for camps that were flipped from a roamer who is CLEARLY doing a full circle around the map, why back cap when you know where they are going? Get there first and kill them and stop them from capping more camps. I log in to see people doing this and no defenders going to fight them, I follow them and by the 3rd time I kill them they often change maps.

 

Camps are hard for some and super easy for others, many people just refuse to use the abilities given to them in game. Keep a camp clearing build loaded to a hot key, every class has one, don't just run into the middle and kill everything, STACK THEM. I hate taking camps with someone else, because they always just run in and it takes 5 times as long to kill everything spread out because people have no idea what they are doing or how/where to stack a camp. Done right and ring will be half capped before swords show.

 

Oh, and one more thing, golems should not contest camps, there is a reason warclaw contesting was removed. Had to deal with a T3 camp that had a defender in it, I could kill everything and almost kill them and they would jump into a golem, which takes FOREVER to kill solo and they had 8 of them in the camp, by the time you kill one, NPCs are spawning back (which should not be a thing if the ring is up), and he would drop all his CDs on me, then jump into another golem, over and over until enough people show to kill me.

[misterman.1530]

One thing they should do is guards should not respawn until the swords on an objective are gone. Stupid to have guards respawn in, for example, the Lord's room during a battle.

 

[Shroud.2307]

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> It's easy enough to flip anything outside of a T3 camp....But camps should not hold themselves, you need to defend, and if you are at a camp that is being attacked, it should be easy to win the fight, while the NPC on their own melt, in a fight the CC and blind spam is a huge advantage. Learn to use marking traps for common paths into camps for warning, with warclaw it's very easy to get to a camp in time if you have some map awareness. I see people going for camps that were flipped from a roamer who is CLEARLY doing a full circle around the map, why back cap when you know where they are going? Get there first and kill them and stop them from capping more camps. I log in to see people doing this and no defenders going to fight them, I follow them and by the 3rd time I kill them they often change maps.

>

> Camps are hard for some and super easy for others, many people just refuse to use the abilities given to them in game. Keep a camp clearing build loaded to a hot key, every class has one, don't just run into the middle and kill everything, STACK THEM. I hate taking camps with someone else, because they always just run in and it takes 5 times as long to kill everything spread out because people have no idea what they are doing or how/where to stack a camp. Done right and ring will be half capped before swords show.

>

> Oh, and one more thing, golems should not contest camps, there is a reason warclaw contesting was removed. Had to deal with a T3 camp that had a defender in it, I could kill everything and almost kill them and they would jump into a golem, which takes FOREVER to kill solo and they had 8 of them in the camp, by the time you kill one, NPCs are spawning back (which should not be a thing if the ring is up), and he would drop all his CDs on me, then jump into another golem, over and over until enough people show to kill me.

 

I am not disagreeing about the golems contesting camps, but I want to add a tip, using a Siege Disabler on an unmanned golem disallows people from entering it. This won't solve the problem if the player(s) survive long enough to outlast the Disable, but my point is that it can be soft countered. Especially since most times if someone runs straight for a golem and you're the only person in the camp, they probably can't defend themselves without it.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > It's easy enough to flip anything outside of a T3 camp....But camps should not hold themselves, you need to defend, and if you are at a camp that is being attacked, it should be easy to win the fight, while the NPC on their own melt, in a fight the CC and blind spam is a huge advantage. Learn to use marking traps for common paths into camps for warning, with warclaw it's very easy to get to a camp in time if you have some map awareness. I see people going for camps that were flipped from a roamer who is CLEARLY doing a full circle around the map, why back cap when you know where they are going? Get there first and kill them and stop them from capping more camps. I log in to see people doing this and no defenders going to fight them, I follow them and by the 3rd time I kill them they often change maps.

> >

> > Camps are hard for some and super easy for others, many people just refuse to use the abilities given to them in game. Keep a camp clearing build loaded to a hot key, every class has one, don't just run into the middle and kill everything, STACK THEM. I hate taking camps with someone else, because they always just run in and it takes 5 times as long to kill everything spread out because people have no idea what they are doing or how/where to stack a camp. Done right and ring will be half capped before swords show.

> >

> > Oh, and one more thing, golems should not contest camps, there is a reason warclaw contesting was removed. Had to deal with a T3 camp that had a defender in it, I could kill everything and almost kill them and they would jump into a golem, which takes FOREVER to kill solo and they had 8 of them in the camp, by the time you kill one, NPCs are spawning back (which should not be a thing if the ring is up), and he would drop all his CDs on me, then jump into another golem, over and over until enough people show to kill me.

>

> I am not disagreeing about the golems contesting camps, but I want to add a tip, using a Siege Disabler on an unmanned golem disallows people from entering it. This won't solve the problem if the player(s) survive long enough to outlast the Disable, but my point is that it can be soft countered. Especially since most times if someone runs straight for a golem and you're the only person in the camp, they probably can't defend themselves without it.

Siege disablers cost 10 supply and has a cd after use. You're not going to do much against that golem alone even if it doesnt attack you and if it's an omega - only cheap chumps use alpha - it takes forever to kill.

 

I've been in kitten stupid situations where I *do* manage to kill the golem... only to have the enemy jump into the next golem. And there's still one more unmanned golem left.

 

Golems should not contest caps period. It's a stupid mechanic. Anet fixed it for the dollys, why they havent done so for golems is beyond me. If anything, they could instead **improve** the golem mechanics by adding more skills to it - maybe just a short term contest that bunkers down the golem, maybe a sentry pulse so you can use it to "call" reinforcements to camps that are threatened - or when you are walking and players nearby are oblivious. There are so many things Anet could do instead of just keeping it... stupid.

 

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > It's easy enough to flip anything outside of a T3 camp....But camps should not hold themselves, you need to defend, and if you are at a camp that is being attacked, it should be easy to win the fight, while the NPC on their own melt, in a fight the CC and blind spam is a huge advantage. Learn to use marking traps for common paths into camps for warning, with warclaw it's very easy to get to a camp in time if you have some map awareness. I see people going for camps that were flipped from a roamer who is CLEARLY doing a full circle around the map, why back cap when you know where they are going? Get there first and kill them and stop them from capping more camps. I log in to see people doing this and no defenders going to fight them, I follow them and by the 3rd time I kill them they often change maps.

> >

> > Camps are hard for some and super easy for others, many people just refuse to use the abilities given to them in game. Keep a camp clearing build loaded to a hot key, every class has one, don't just run into the middle and kill everything, STACK THEM. I hate taking camps with someone else, because they always just run in and it takes 5 times as long to kill everything spread out because people have no idea what they are doing or how/where to stack a camp. Done right and ring will be half capped before swords show.

> >

> > Oh, and one more thing, golems should not contest camps, there is a reason warclaw contesting was removed. Had to deal with a T3 camp that had a defender in it, I could kill everything and almost kill them and they would jump into a golem, which takes FOREVER to kill solo and they had 8 of them in the camp, by the time you kill one, NPCs are spawning back (which should not be a thing if the ring is up), and he would drop all his CDs on me, then jump into another golem, over and over until enough people show to kill me.

>

> I am not disagreeing about the golems contesting camps, but I want to add a tip, using a Siege Disabler on an unmanned golem disallows people from entering it. This won't solve the problem if the player(s) survive long enough to outlast the Disable, but my point is that it can be soft countered. Especially since most times if someone runs straight for a golem and you're the only person in the camp, they probably can't defend themselves without it.

 

They had 8 omega golems spread out around the camp, you might get a disable off on ONE, while everything in the T3 camp comes for you with the player defending, capping a T3 with a player defending solo is not easy. If you focus the player, they hop into a golem, back off and try and clear camp, even if you disable the one they are in, it still contests the camp, so you still have to kill the golem....And then the next, and the next, and the next, and the next etc etc. I know how powerful this tactic is and how to use it, because I do it as well when defending a camp, each camp has a placement perimeter you want to place them in, so they can't all be hit with one disable and aoe skills can only hit one. When the golem is low, you move to the other side of the camp and turn backwards, so when ejected you land RIGHT next to the next golem, push "F" and start all over.

 

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > > @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

> > > It's easy enough to flip anything outside of a T3 camp....But camps should not hold themselves, you need to defend, and if you are at a camp that is being attacked, it should be easy to win the fight, while the NPC on their own melt, in a fight the CC and blind spam is a huge advantage. Learn to use marking traps for common paths into camps for warning, with warclaw it's very easy to get to a camp in time if you have some map awareness. I see people going for camps that were flipped from a roamer who is CLEARLY doing a full circle around the map, why back cap when you know where they are going? Get there first and kill them and stop them from capping more camps. I log in to see people doing this and no defenders going to fight them, I follow them and by the 3rd time I kill them they often change maps.

> > >

> > > Camps are hard for some and super easy for others, many people just refuse to use the abilities given to them in game. Keep a camp clearing build loaded to a hot key, every class has one, don't just run into the middle and kill everything, STACK THEM. I hate taking camps with someone else, because they always just run in and it takes 5 times as long to kill everything spread out because people have no idea what they are doing or how/where to stack a camp. Done right and ring will be half capped before swords show.

> > >

> > > Oh, and one more thing, golems should not contest camps, there is a reason warclaw contesting was removed. Had to deal with a T3 camp that had a defender in it, I could kill everything and almost kill them and they would jump into a golem, which takes FOREVER to kill solo and they had 8 of them in the camp, by the time you kill one, NPCs are spawning back (which should not be a thing if the ring is up), and he would drop all his CDs on me, then jump into another golem, over and over until enough people show to kill me.

> >

> > I am not disagreeing about the golems contesting camps, but I want to add a tip, using a Siege Disabler on an unmanned golem disallows people from entering it. This won't solve the problem if the player(s) survive long enough to outlast the Disable, but my point is that it can be soft countered. Especially since most times if someone runs straight for a golem and you're the only person in the camp, they probably can't defend themselves without it.

>

> They had 8 omega golems spread out around the camp, you might get a disable off on ONE, while everything in the T3 camp comes for you with the player defending, capping a T3 with a player defending solo is not easy. If you focus the player, they hop into a golem, back off and try and clear camp, even if you disable the one they are in, it still contests the camp, so you still have to kill the golem....And then the next, and the next, and the next, and the next etc etc. I know how powerful this tactic is and how to use it, because I do it as well when defending a camp, each camp has a placement perimeter you want to place them in, so they can't all be hit with one disable and aoe skills can only hit one. When the golem is low, you move to the other side of the camp and turn backwards, so when ejected you land RIGHT next to the next golem, push "F" and start all over.

>

>

>

 

So.... if they wanted it enough to have 8 omegas defending it, albeit not with people, I still view that as a win.

 

I would also go back with a friend or two. It means that much so I would take it just to make em mad.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

 

--

 

> @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:

 

I agree with both of you. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, or maybe you are me, but yes I think it's stupid that golems can contest camps and I know sometimes people will build multiple. I was just stating that if you have supplies and a Disabler handy you can **throw it at a golem _before_ someone gets in** and they won't be able to get in it at all. If there are a bunch then no, this isn't going to help.

 

More than a few times I've done this and it has won me the camp is why I was saying so. I rarely see a camp with more than one or two golems in it, so if I see someone rushing toward it I deny them the entry and they're stuck fighting me until the Disabler wears off.

 

Also @"Dawdler.8521" I think giving the golem an additional skill(s) would be a good idea. I think an AOE pulse that Marks nearby players for like... Maybe 10 seconds (without Revealing them) would be the best option. Personally anyway, I don't like the idea of giving them a skill that denies ring capture even if it's temporary. Dolyaks are already good enough at that with their uncannily consistent ability to spawn the last 3 ticks before a camp flips just to delay it that extra 5 annoying seconds.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

 

> You have never come across people putting golems and ballista in camps to defend? Or people laying mark traps in chokes? Or having a flood of people exit citadel to defend north camp? Must not roam much.

 

Hi, we are talking about npc guards, which are at every camp. Camps where people build golems are a rarity, but are usually seen at that same north camp that gets flooded with defenders.

 

[Samug.6512]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> I disagree david.

> Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

 

Except even average player, when able to LoS NPCs and stack them, will be able to kill them in ~20 seconds. So the camp is marked as contested for 10 seconds before it gets flipped, and 10 seconds won't get you even half way from any closest waypoint to, say, north-west camp on Alpine.

IMO, camp NPCs should either be buffed to not get killed in 5 seconds, or the delay of contested mark removed on camps.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Dinas Dragonbane.2978" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

>

> > You have never come across people putting golems and ballista in camps to defend? Or people laying mark traps in chokes? Or having a flood of people exit citadel to defend north camp? Must not roam much.

>

> Hi, we are talking about npc guards, which are at every camp. Camps where people build golems are a rarity, but are usually seen at that same north camp that gets flooded with defenders.

>

 

You are right, it is rarer nowadays in other camps. While the npcs havnt changed, you know what has? The players. Which is what @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" already covered. It's on the players to defend, not lol the camp npcs.

 

When I roam and people are not willing to defend and will only karma train behind me I will just defend against their recapture. Yep, I will defend enemy map camps from the home server.

 

If people want to keep objectives they need to learn how to read the map. Not just karma training stuff by reflipping it.

 

[Justine.6351]

> @"Samug.6512" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > I disagree david.

> > Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

>

> Except even average player, when able to LoS NPCs and stack them, will be able to kill them in ~20 seconds. So the camp is marked as contested for 10 seconds before it gets flipped, and 10 seconds won't get you even half way from any closest waypoint to, say, north-west camp on Alpine.

> IMO, camp NPCs should either be buffed to not get killed in 5 seconds, or the delay of contested mark removed on camps.

 

Your math is a little off for starters.

 

Secondly it's on the home server counter roamers to actually counter roam, not just lol look for white swords before responding.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Samug.6512" said:

> Except even average player, when able to LoS NPCs and stack them, will be able to kill them in ~20 seconds. So the camp is marked as contested for 10 seconds before it gets flipped, and 10 seconds won't get you even half way from any closest waypoint to, say, north-west camp on Alpine.

> IMO, camp NPCs should either be buffed to not get killed in 5 seconds, or the delay of contested mark removed on camps.

 

If Arenanet adds an alternative that's as easily killed as the current guards (for the guard killer daily)

I don't mind them buffing camp guards.

 

But without that alternative, they **need** to be this weak, so average player have a chance to complete the daily.

 

 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

acutally funny that we came on the Guards at this discussion. they're imo like the only NPC characters outside of dollers that are actually okay at their current use and stand.

 

keep lords (non-desert ones) are too weak

red and yellow NPC animals (moas, wolves etc etc) are unnecessary and only stacking you in battle or screwing up your aiming against stealthy or range roamers..

 

and you can easily cut half of the green NPC animals as well, since they provide nothing than a decorative spot on a map that potentially makes performance worse.

 

also, since no player can enter enemy spawn, remove the pointless legendary defenders. they don't fight anyways. u can keep some few of them, and place them at front of spawn, but most of those (including the legendary defenders around the alpine owners' citadel WP) are just kinda pointless decoration.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Samug.6512" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > I disagree david.

> > Maybe their skill set could be improved but beyond that they serve their function in today's game. To flag a camp so that nearby defenders have a chance to respond. Not for people from garrison to run all the way to south camp to defend. With "marked" being available as a counter roaming tool it's just not appropriate at this point.

>

> Except even average player, when able to LoS NPCs and stack them, will be able to kill them in ~20 seconds. So the camp is marked as contested for 10 seconds before it gets flipped, and 10 seconds won't get you even half way from any closest waypoint to, say, north-west camp on Alpine.

> IMO, camp NPCs should either be buffed to not get killed in 5 seconds, or the delay of contested mark removed on camps.

 

Protect it then.

 

I don't mean to pull the "back in my day" card, but way back when upgrades were manual I used to do a lot of scouting and roaming. I would spend hours upon hours escorting dolyaks _(I barely do at all anymore and GW2Effieicny says I'm still rank #85 for yak escorts),_ managing upgrades, defending camps, etc., and I didn't have the virtue of the Marked debuff from the various sources that is now available.

 

True, flipping a camp may have taken a bit longer then because it was before all the power creep, but it was still perfectly doable. Sometimes camps would flip and there was nothing I could do about it, just like now. Every objective flips eventually and that's how it should be. Nothing should be standing for days on end because it means one of two things: a poorly balanced match up, or objective defenses are too strong and it isn't worth attempting. That's why keeps often only flip once or twice in a "balanced" match up, but I digress.

 

I understand scouting doesn't provide much in the way of rewards, and that an experienced player can flip an unupgraded camp in seconds, but again as I'd said before, if you don't care enough to scout it you don't care enough to keep it. NPCs are fine as they are because they serve their purpose - to delay captures and to stand in for players as a 24/7 defense. After the big balance patch some months ago that reduced damage across the board, T3 camps are actually pretty scary now, so I honestly don't think buffing them in any way would be a good idea.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> No thank you.

> I'm happy with the quick and easy Guard Killer daily.

Agree...

 

And when guild or zergs do fully upgrade NPCs then it is really difficult to kill all NPC as some actually have high damage when they are upgraded. All depends also if you need to get close to with melee or can stay at least at range while taking down NPCs. 50% damage reduction, poison from ranged NPC, knockdown and CC from some other and the lady with hammer that can actually chip away a large part of HP even on PC with investment in Vitality to increase HP add to that all thiefe and their friends that just wait in the bushes to have an easy kill. Well you get the picture OP....

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> You are right, it is rarer nowadays in other camps. While the npcs havnt changed, you know what has? The players.

Hi, we are still talking about NPCs, not players. We are talking about apples and you keep bringing up oranges. Time to convert this to be about it all in general. Npc strength and behavior is under par, and average player behavior is also under par. For those concerned with defending camps, the guards put up barely more effort than 99% of the population at actually defending them. For those concerned with attacking your behavior must exceed the npc intelligence, plus those defenders trying to watch the map. It is not very hard to tip the scales in the favor of attackers or defenders. The use of traps is nearly always overlooked to help defenders, but the real problem is usually the apathy people have...because it is just a camp. If camps were a little more important in the short term would that change opinions?

Is there a way to adjust npc guards to help smarter play on both sides? Maybe the quartermaster can have an ability or interrupt able skill for a short range marked where you either kill it fast or must interrupt it to stay unseen. Just ideas to improve all produce since just talking about apples is not for everybody

[Justine.6351]

> @"Dinas Dragonbane.2978" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > You are right, it is rarer nowadays in other camps. While the npcs havnt changed, you know what has? The players.

> Hi, we are still talking about NPCs, not players. We are talking about apples and you keep bringing up oranges. Time to convert this to be about it all in general. Npc strength and behavior is under par, and average player behavior is also under par. For those concerned with defending camps, the guards put up barely more effort than 99% of the population at actually defending them. For those concerned with attacking your behavior must exceed the npc intelligence, plus those defenders trying to watch the map. It is not very hard to tip the scales in the favor of attackers or defenders. The use of traps is nearly always overlooked to help defenders, but the real problem is usually the apathy people have...because it is just a camp. If camps were a little more important in the short term would that change opinions?

> Is there a way to adjust npc guards to help smarter play on both sides? Maybe the quartermaster can have an ability or interrupt able skill for a short range marked where you either kill it fast or must interrupt it to stay unseen. Just ideas to improve all produce since just talking about apples is not for everybody

 

There isn't a special npc that will magically make people better at pvp.

 

Understand that camps only need 10 minutes of guild claim before dropping in packed or speedy yaks. Making it t3 isn't even necessary afaik. And once their objectives are t3 the camp really doesn't do much at all except keep supply topped off. It's a pretty regular scenario for the north camps. While north camp is the easiest to t3 it also is likely the least necessary to make t3.

 

Will people still fight over camps that serve no purpose? Yes

Will people karma train reflipping camps that serve no purpose? Yes

Will people defend camps that are upgrading objectives? Yes

Will people lose t3 camps without responding? Yes

 

The common thread is the players. Wether they defend or not is as simple a matter as standing in a camp and waiting for an enemy to show up. If people want NPCs defending camps as good as players there is a map called the silverwastes and it is probably far more rewarding than playing wvw. Kill two birds with one stone.

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

wow this is the longest running thread i ever posted. could we get mounted guards or t3 camp guards that reveal? :p