Not So Secret jumping puzzle could do with a small update

[Tanek.5983]

To be clear, I am not asking for anything in the jumping puzzle itself to change. It is hard, it was designed to be hard, that is fine.

 

But. Something _has_ changed that affects how punishing the puzzle can be. It has been years since I ran it with any regularity. Back then, I would always use the trait for reduced falling damage which, while some falls were still way too far for it to help, could be the difference between starting over a little way down, and needing to pay for a wayshrine outside. The fall damage reduction traits were removed. That still stings a bit and was not the best holiday gift, but ok, done is done. Moving on. :'(

 

Maybe something can still be done to make the puzzle just as hard, but not as punishing. How about a free rez back at the start when you fall and die? There is precedent for this with Griffonrook Run. I'm sure it would not matter much for someone who makes lots of gold in game, but that someone is not me, so even this small thing would be a great reduction in frustration.

 

And, you know, some compensation for stealing those traits. ;)

[Astralporing.1957]

They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

[Tanek.5983]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

 

Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

[WorldofBay.8160]

> @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

>

> Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

 

on the double shooter try aiming at the engine on the right side to avoid the double dash. there's a chance you get bumped too far and fall over but most times it works.

 

for all other shooters i didn't encounter problems.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

>

> Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

Yes. They work inconsistently now - among other reasons it is because they are now affected by any speed bonuses you might have (which, for example, makes attempting this JP on any build with passive speed bonus - so, for example, any chronomancer - way, way harder than it's supposed to be). They also seem to have some other quirks, but i am not quite sure where they come from.

 

Basically - they originally were shooting you forward a fixed distance, so all you had to worry about was to get the direction right. Now that distance is _not_ fixed, and can be different depending on situation. Unfortunately, the rest of JP didn't adjust for that, which means the gears can now shoot you too far, or too short, and thus drop you down, and possibly kill you. That's especially true at the later part - there are a few key gears just before the top of airship baloon that require high precision of that jump, or you fall all the way down (with predictable consequences). And it's not something you have a lot of control over (you can try to use weapon switch to stop too long jump, but in case of a too short one you're just dead, and that's it).

 

[Tanek.5983]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

> >

> > Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

> Yes. They work inconsistently now - among other reasons it is because they are now affected by any speed bonuses you might have (which, for example, makes attempting this JP on any build with passive speed bonus - so, for example, any chronomancer - way, way harder than it's supposed to be). They also seem to have some other quirks, but i am not quite sure where they come from.

>

 

If that is the case, my overshooting might be from switching to air attunement? I had been doing that on the section just before because it seemed to help with the awful jump up the rocks to that gear. Hmm. Will check that next time. thanks.

[Tanek.5983]

> @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

> >

> > Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

>

> on the double shooter try aiming at the engine on the right side to avoid the double dash. there's a chance you get bumped too far and fall over but most times it works.

>

> for all other shooters i didn't encounter problems.

 

That is what I have been doing, but no matter where I aim it rockets me right past the 2nd shooter and I fall. When I'm lucky and aiming to the right side, I sometimes catch the very edge of the airship on the way down and can try again from there. Otherwise...SPLAT.

[lokh.2695]

ANet has moved on, sorry, can't go back and fix things when there are 3693372165 new things to put into the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> ANet has moved on, sorry, can't go back and fix things when there are 3693372165 new things to put into the game.

 

And that's why the game is in the state it is now, unfortunately.

[Tanek.5983]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> ANet has moved on, sorry, can't go back and fix things when there are 3693372165 new things to put into the game.

 

Even if true, I find it unhelpful to think that way. I'd rather put the suggestion for improvement out there just in case. :)

 

Also, speaking of helpfulness, I had a couple people in game help me figure out the gears to get over to the diving goggles. It really does seem like the operation of the gears changed at some point. All the videos I've found show the player stepping onto the 1st gear, getting shot over to the 2nd, having a brief moment to reorient, then continuing on to the platform. If you try that now?...death.

 

They told me to _jump_ onto the 1st gear just as it starts spinning. Don't just walk onto it. Apparently, this shortens the distance you travel, allowing for a landing just short of the 2nd gear, so you don't automatically go shooting off. Worked perfectly.

 

I still don't think you should have to waypoint when you die, though.

[lokh.2695]

> @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > @"lokh.2695" said:

> > ANet has moved on, sorry, can't go back and fix things when there are 3693372165 new things to put into the game.

>

> Even if true, I find it unhelpful to think that way. I'd rather still put the suggestion for improvement out there just in case. :)

I would love to think otherwise but experience won't let me, at least not without a serious amount of doublethinking and retcon'ing the last 8 years of GW2.

 

 

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

> @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

> >

> > Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

>

> on the double shooter try aiming at the engine on the right side to avoid the double dash. there's a chance you get bumped too far and fall over but most times it works.

>

> for all other shooters i didn't encounter problems.

 

Staff Daredevil FTW. Sorry. In the last part, just before the up-shooters that reach the diving platform, you use Vault to bounce across on the platforms *next to* the gears.

 

Rifle Engineer of any type can do it as well, and so can Dragonhunter, but Vault recharges much faster even when you've exhausted your Initiative pool.

 

And don't forget that you only need to do the goggle path once for the collection.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> And don't forget that you only need to do the goggle path once for the collection.

It took me over 30 attempts before i managed to get the jump without killing myself first on one of the boards (or, in a few cases, on invisible glitched pixels).

I mean, it's not like Not So Secret is all that easy. They didn't have to couple it with one of the two hardest jumps in the game (the other one being, in my opinion, the Dry Top one - incidentally also at the end of not so easy JP)

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > And don't forget that you only need to do the goggle path once for the collection.

> It took me over 30 attempts before i managed to get the jump without killing myself first on one of the boards (or, in a few cases, on invisible glitched pixels).

> I mean, it's not like Not So Secret is all that easy. They didn't have to couple it with one of the two hardest jumps in the game (the other one being, in my opinion, the Dry Top one - incidentally also at the end of not so easy JP)

 

They didn't "have to", but on the other hand there's no reason not to include it. I don't see a problem with some jumping puzzles actually being more about precision jumping than just finding a correct rock shelf to advance.

[Fuchslein.8639]

> @"Tanek.5983" said:

> To be clear, I am not asking for anything in the jumping puzzle itself to change. It is hard, it was designed to be hard, that is fine.

>

> But. Something _has_ changed that affects how punishing the puzzle can be. It has been years since I ran it with any regularity. Back then, I would always use the trait for reduced falling damage which, while some falls were still way too far for it to help, could be the difference between starting over a little way down, and needing to pay for a wayshrine outside. The fall damage reduction traits were removed. That still stings a bit and was not the best holiday gift, but ok, done is done. Moving on. :'(

>

> Maybe something can still be done to make the puzzle just as hard, but not as punishing. How about a free rez back at the start when you fall and die? There is precedent for this with Griffonrook Run. I'm sure it would not matter much for someone who makes lots of gold in game, but that someone is not me, so even this small thing would be a great reduction in frustration.

>

> And, you know, some compensation for stealing those traits. ;)

 

Wait. They have removed the reduction of fall damage from traits? Why?

I can remember where years ago I did this jump-puzzle with friends and I and a friend used to port friends and strangers to the goggles and vice versa. How do you do that nowadays without these traits? One wrong jump and you can do it all over again ... to help others.

 

There is this other thread here that denounces waypoints and other stuff put's social actions down, but isn't it exactly this kind of decisions by Anet that make people think about helping or not helping?

Together with this Pad-Bug that already existed where I started at HOT GW2, I wish all newcomers good luck getting their achievements there. I hope there will be jumpers in the future who wast- ... want to spend their time to help others, no matter how many stones anet puts in their way.

[Westenev.5289]

I remember this being a concern when they removed fall traits - I used to like running portals for my less spacally aware friends, whether that be to the goggles or simply acting as a safety net if someone fell and/or died. I also helped a few randoms, and made jumping puzzle buddies.

 

I probably couldn't do that today - I'd just fall and die with them - which I think is a shame.

 

A 50% fall damage reduction consumable, the same reduction as the old traits, would be perfect, imho.

[Fuchslein.8639]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> I remember this being a concern when they removed fall traits - I used to like running portals for my less spacally aware friends, whether that be to the goggles or simply acting as a safety net if someone fell and/or died. I also helped a few randoms, and made jumping puzzle buddies.

>

> I probably couldn't do that today - I'd just fall and die with them - which I think is a shame.

>

> A 50% fall damage reduction consumable, the same reduction as the old traits, would be perfect, imho.

 

Yep, me too. I loved jumping puzzles and triky stuff in general and especially helped a friend of mine over and over again. I don't know if I would still do that nowadays, as she is someone who falls often, even with the simplest things. Many Randoms that I have helped are like that too.

 

I don't think that without this trait I would have the patience for such people.

Just because I love something doesn't mean that I want to do it over and over again to help people (this usually leads to hating something ...). Maybe there are such people, I am not one of them who has so much patience xx.

[Tanek.5983]

> @"Fuchslein.8639" said:

> > @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > To be clear, I am not asking for anything in the jumping puzzle itself to change. It is hard, it was designed to be hard, that is fine.

> >

> > But. Something _has_ changed that affects how punishing the puzzle can be. It has been years since I ran it with any regularity. Back then, I would always use the trait for reduced falling damage which, while some falls were still way too far for it to help, could be the difference between starting over a little way down, and needing to pay for a wayshrine outside. The fall damage reduction traits were removed. That still stings a bit and was not the best holiday gift, but ok, done is done. Moving on. :'(

> >

> > Maybe something can still be done to make the puzzle just as hard, but not as punishing. How about a free rez back at the start when you fall and die? There is precedent for this with Griffonrook Run. I'm sure it would not matter much for someone who makes lots of gold in game, but that someone is not me, so even this small thing would be a great reduction in frustration.

> >

> > And, you know, some compensation for stealing those traits. ;)

>

> Wait. They have removed the reduction of fall damage from traits? Why?

> I can remember where years ago I did this jump-puzzle with friends and I and a friend used to port friends and strangers to the goggles and vice versa. How do you do that nowadays without these traits? One wrong jump and you can do it all over again ... to help others.

>

> There is this other thread here that denounces waypoints and other stuff put's social actions down, but isn't it exactly this kind of decisions by Anet that make people think about helping or not helping?

> Together with this Pad-Bug that already existed where I started at HOT GW2, I wish all newcomers good luck getting their achievements there. I hope there will be jumpers in the future who wast- ... want to spend their time to help others, no matter how many stones anet puts in their way.

 

Yeah, the fall damage traits were all changed last year. Here is the post announcing it. I was not a fan of the change since I used the trait on my mesmer all the time, but at this point done is done.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91782/upcoming-changes-to-fall-damage-and-revival/p1

 

Given that I have seen people trying to help out in the jumping puzzle all the time and the players who were there this morning actually told me how to get around the bug (or mechanics change, depending on how generous you want to be with phrasing), I think we can count on some members of the community to help fill in the gaps where the game comes up short. :) (Not that this should be necessary, but it is nice to know players care about others in the game.)

 

[Sobx.1758]

Who cares about fall dmg reduction when you can get prototype position rewinder and make yourself a private save point on any jp

[Fuchslein.8639]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Who cares about fall dmg reduction when you can get prototype position rewinder and make yourself a private save point on any jp

 

Not everyone has that. New players in particular.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Fuchslein.8639" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > Who cares about fall dmg reduction when you can get prototype position rewinder and make yourself a private save point on any jp

>

> Not everyone has that. New players in particular.

 

Luckily 200 gems for an episode isn't that much. But it's their choice.

[Teratus.2859]

Main problem is the launcher pads, they can lag out sometimes and screw you out of a jump, specially the ones leading upto the diving goggles but this has always been a problem.

 

Despite efforts to stop it, you can still skip most of the puzzle using mounts though.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > > @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > They might also go and fix the gear shooter pads. Although there's no hurry, they have only been bugged for years now.

> > >

> > > Are they? That might explain why I can't get to the diving goggles. I thought my asura just didn't weigh enough. :)

> >

> > on the double shooter try aiming at the engine on the right side to avoid the double dash. there's a chance you get bumped too far and fall over but most times it works.

> >

> > for all other shooters i didn't encounter problems.

>

> Staff Daredevil FTW. Sorry. In the last part, just before the up-shooters that reach the diving platform, you use Vault to bounce across on the platforms *next to* the gears.

>

> Rifle Engineer of any type can do it as well, and so can Dragonhunter, but Vault recharges much faster even when you've exhausted your Initiative pool.

>

> And don't forget that you only need to do the goggle path once for the collection.

 

or any class with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Rifle

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Steve The Cynic.3217" said:

> > And don't forget that you only need to do the goggle path once for the collection.

> It took me over 30 attempts before i managed to get the jump without killing myself first on one of the boards (or, in a few cases, on invisible glitched pixels).

> I mean, it's not like Not So Secret is all that easy. They didn't have to couple it with one of the two hardest jumps in the game (the other one being, in my opinion, the Dry Top one - incidentally also at the end of not so easy JP)

>

 

Dry Top one is long but not hard and it has multiple checkpoints so you don't have to restart from the beginning and the skritt will ress you if you die in there. There is also a simple trick for doing the diving there. You do the diving attempts before fully finishing the JP(don't touch the chest). That will allow you to get back to with the skritt tunnel, it does cost a gold but that gives you an hours do the dive and you can still finish the JP afterwards.

 

Not So Secret goggle path is also needed for at least one of the legendary weapon collections as well.

[Carnius Magius.8091]

> @"Tanek.5983" said:

> Maybe something can still be done to make the puzzle just as hard, but not as punishing. How about a free rez back at the start when you fall and die? There is precedent for this with Griffonrook Run. I'm sure it would not matter much for someone who makes lots of gold in game, but that someone is not me, so even this small thing would be a great reduction in frustration.

>

> And, you know, some compensation for stealing those traits. ;)

 

Have you tried using the Prototype Position Rewinder? If you are fast enough, you can break a fall by rewinding. Use Mark location often and you may never have to start the puzzle from the beginning again.

[Tanek.5983]

> @"Carnius Magius.8091" said:

> > @"Tanek.5983" said:

> > Maybe something can still be done to make the puzzle just as hard, but not as punishing. How about a free rez back at the start when you fall and die? There is precedent for this with Griffonrook Run. I'm sure it would not matter much for someone who makes lots of gold in game, but that someone is not me, so even this small thing would be a great reduction in frustration.

> >

> > And, you know, some compensation for stealing those traits. ;)

>

> Have you tried using the Prototype Position Rewinder? If you are fast enough, you can break a fall by rewinding. Use Mark location often and you may never have to start the puzzle from the beginning again.

 

I have not tried that, but I will check it out. Thanks!