UNOwen.7132 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. you had me untill " Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build " not gonna lie, I laughed to that, have a thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > > > Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. > > you had me untill " Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build " > not gonna lie, I laughed to that, have a thumbs up! > I have talked about this, but your ability to laugh at the simple, mundane truth is rather odd. Do you also laugh at the weather report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. **Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play.** But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. I am actually confused now. I thought the main consensus was that thief is ez to play, free win, etc. which people basically used to justify any kind of hate/nerf wishes for the class. Now i read this. So which is it actually? Also, i really would like to remind the community that there have been been times in this game when thieves were built more around evades/dodges and dueling - everyone screamed bloody murder and begged for nerfs, because, oh wonder, thieves playing those builds didn't just lie down and gave free point. Honestly, be careful of what you wish for. Does anyone remember the initial explanation from Anet, why thief fighting capability got heavily nerfed pre-HoT? Right, it was mobility. Every patch since then has been justified with "teef should be decapper, not dueler". Now they nerfed mobility (once again) and i do have one question at dev team: what should thief be? What does dev team actually invisions thief to be? It is like mesmers should be clone masters yet balance patch would reduce max number of clones to 1 because people get annoyed by the screen clutter or just hate to fight mesmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. **Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play.** But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > I am actually confused now. I thought the main consensus was that thief is ez to play, free win, etc. which people basically used to justify any kind of hate/nerf wishes for the class. Now i read this. So which is it actually? > Also, i really would like to remind the community that there have been been times in this game when thieves were built more around evades/dodges and dueling - everyone screamed bloody murder and begged for nerfs, because, oh wonder, thieves playing those builds didn't just lie down and gave free point. Honestly, be careful of what you wish for. > > Does anyone remember the initial explanation from Anet, why thief fighting capability got heavily nerfed pre-HoT? Right, it was mobility. Every patch since then has been justified with "teef should be decapper, not dueler". Now they nerfed mobility (once again) and i do have one question at dev team: what should thief be? What does dev team actually invisions thief to be? It is like mesmers should be clone masters yet balance patch would reduce max number of clones to 1 because people get annoyed by the screen clutter or just hate to fight mesmers. It's funny cuz if u search the class sub forums thiefs forum is the one that has by far the most thread about new players or new thief players asking for help and tips on how to be effective on thief and not get destroyed in sec's lol weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 We wouldn't have this sort of problem if Ini was a balanced mechanic just saying :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen.1483 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye. Btw if mesmer is the only class you can beat with a thief, you are just lacking experience on other classes if you play only thief. Countering mesmer as a thief is straightforeward, but for beating other classes you might need some minimal knowledge. Go play other classes to find out their weeknesses then come back to thief and use that in your advantage. I mostly play power core and I would engage and win 1vs1 fights with rangers, guardians, damage eles, condi renes, mesmers and ofc enemy thieves. I avoid fighting alone with necros, engis, warriors and the bunker builds in general. Remember still that there is no class that destroys all others. Everyone has his counters. Avoid ones that you are not supposed to beat with your class. In any match I always have at least 2 classes I can 1vs1 and win as a thief. That is what makes the builds like rifle deadeyes unviable, you don't actually need that with meta thief builds, you can still win some 1vs1s and have the good map control. But for weak thief players like you, that might be a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > We wouldn't have this sort of problem if Ini was a balanced mechanic just saying :^) Not even arguing with this. Anet simply has no idea what they want the class to be. Guess they didn't want to bring back Assassins from GW1 without giving them a bit of a twist.. Now, I think it's an extremely interesting system and you could argue that Rev's energy works similarly but it's kinda balanced due to Rev having cooldowns (not speaking of how loaded their kit is at times or how Kalla works tho) I think it could be worth trying adding charges to some skills on thief like IA or Unload on pistol/pistol. Like.. You can cast it 2 times in rapid succession and get a 5 second cooldown but if you only cast it once (aka spend only 1 charge) then it will recharge after 3 seconds or something like that. Similar to how the Mantras on Firebrand work, like the charges have lower cooldown than the mantra itself. It would probably not be that hard to just make two identical vresions of IA, one being the "lower cooldown charge version" and the other one being the "higher cooldown final charge" version. Just an idea and it could be worth giving it a shot in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > > > Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. > > Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye. Oh I have done that for fun before. I noticed that thief, under no circumstances, can even get *close* to 100-0 oneshot builds. The most you could is do barely enough damage to 50% a squishy if you go all-in on damage. Of course, then you immediately lose all your damage and die. Let me let you in on a little secret: If such a build existed, it *would* be meta. But of course, it doesnt exist. There is no thief build that can 1v1. They arent known or played because they dont exist. Deadeye does not win *any* 1v1s, have you ever actually played deadeye? Its at best a teamfighting build to pick people off (which its bad at). > Btw if mesmer is the only class you can beat with a thief, you are just lacking experience on other classes if you play only thief. Countering mesmer as a thief is straightforeward, but for beating other classes you might need some minimal knowledge. Go play other classes to find out their weeknesses then come back to thief and use that in your advantage. Inaccurate. More accurately, Mesmer is the only class that, if I play it, I dont 100% of the time beat a thief of equal skill level on. If Im playing any other class? Yeah I win, no matter what. Thief is terrible. > I mostly play power core and I would engage and win 1vs1 fights with rangers, guardians, damage eles, condi renes, mesmers and ofc enemy thieves. I avoid fighting alone with necros, engis, warriors and the bunker builds in general. Remember still that there is no class that destroys all others. Everyone has his counters. Avoid ones that you are not supposed to beat with your class. In any match I always have at least 2 classes I can 1vs1 and win as a thief. That is what makes the builds like rifle deadeyes unviable, you don't actually need that with meta thief builds, you can still win some 1vs1s and have the good map control. But for weak thief players like you, that might be a solution. There is however a class that gets destroyed by all others. A class that cannot win any 1v1s by design. A class that is supposed to suck at anything but decapping and +1ing. Thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > > > > > Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. > > > > Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye. > > Oh I have done that for fun before. I noticed that thief, under no circumstances, can even get *close* to 100-0 oneshot builds. The most you could is do barely enough damage to 50% a squishy if you go all-in on damage. Of course, then you immediately lose all your damage and die. Let me let you in on a little secret: If such a build existed, it *would* be meta. But of course, it doesnt exist. There is no thief build that can 1v1. Dude what are you talking about? Have you even played thief aside from one match prior to writing this... I mean.. You really don't know all those secret off-meta builds that easily one-shot EVERY other class? Let me tell you this secret then. It's actually a mechanic everyone in the game can use, however nobody benefits from it like thief does.. It's completely relies on some form of Preparation skill, however it's not labeled as such because you have to do it before joining a match! The mechanic in question is called "Character Select" and it allows you to reroll to an actually useful class that enables your true one-combo potential such as DH or Mesmer.. It's like a disguise you know, everybody knows thief can use stealth but it's a rare secret that we can also use mimicry to use other classes builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said: > > > > > > > > > Escape/reset potential needed a nerf, I approve of the change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this kitten. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean it's broken right ? When you play any non-support class you want to do the same. Get in do damage and get out. But other classes can't do that unpunished. If they get in, do their kill, it's nice. But if you get in and screw up and still get away with it ? Does it really sound fair to you ? It is not about the thief it is about any other class. If you are a guardian and you want to +1 some fight, do you want to get in there, do damage and stay forever ? Apart from some specific bunker classes, everyone class wantsto be able to do that, they don't because they can't. > > > > > > > I don't agree with you that cheesing the hell out of the blink mechanic is the "thief's basic playstyle". It is toxic for the game and it makes playing thief also kinda boring. Thief is just so much more than that. Now you actually gotta play thief how it is supposed to be played. You calculate your chances before engaging in a fight. It is how it should be, just deal with it. > > > > > > > I agree about the necro tho. It needs some nerfs too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes when other classes can shake of 3x the dmg a thief can take. > > > > > > > > > > When a fight is happening just 4k damage from a +1 on a good moment can be enough to decide a fight, so having 10 times more damage won't help much either. And btw I can assure you as a mediocre thief player I can demolish 1vs1s with a thief, thief doesn't lack damage at all, especially if you go for a damage build :) It's been showcased so many times by actually good thief players. Because truth is people just don't know how to play thief, because without his broken mobility, it is actually a hard class to play. But with so much overtune it doesn't feel that way. Playing different thief builds after the last patch I still think that thief is in a good spot. I can feel the difference, but not as much as I thought. My experience might vary from yours, but it is what it is. > > > > > > > > Yes, you dont need much damage in a +1. Thats why thief is still good. And no, you cannot win *any* 1v1s as thief other than maybe Condi Mesmer (Plasma is op). Thieves are already using a max reliable damage build. Thief absolutely lacks damage. Whats been showcased is that if you set up scenarios where the damage doesnt matter, you can do a lot of damage. > > > > > > Dude you've been trolling those forums for too long. I ask you kindly get out of your box and think. If you have ever used offensive traits and utilities, you would notice that thief can actually have 100-0 oneshot builds. Thing is those builds use utilities and traitlines that are not META. As I have said earlier thief has better things to do than 1vs1 people randomly. If you still absolutely want to 1vs1 easily with thief you just gotta use those offmeta builds that are easily capable of doing that. Most of those builds are not always very known or played because they are strong in 1vs1ing, they are not as strong as meta ones in general. Take for example deadeye. Yes it is way worse than a core thief as a whole, but it is a simple solution to your problem. Easy to play and is designed to win 1vs1s if it is what you want. Necros causing you trouble ? Go deadeye. > > > > Oh I have done that for fun before. I noticed that thief, under no circumstances, can even get *close* to 100-0 oneshot builds. The most you could is do barely enough damage to 50% a squishy if you go all-in on damage. Of course, then you immediately lose all your damage and die. Let me let you in on a little secret: If such a build existed, it *would* be meta. But of course, it doesnt exist. There is no thief build that can 1v1. > > Dude what are you talking about? Have you even played thief aside from one match prior to writing this... I mean.. You really don't know all those secret off-meta builds that easily one-shot EVERY other class? > Let me tell you this secret then. It's actually a mechanic everyone in the game can use, however nobody benefits from it like thief does.. It's completely relies on some form of Preparation skill, however it's not labeled as such because you have to do it before joining a match! The mechanic in question is called "Character Select" and it allows you to reroll to an actually useful class that enables your true one-combo potential such as DH or Mesmer.. It's like a disguise you know, everybody knows thief can use stealth but it's a rare secret that we can also use mimicry to use other classes builds. You had me in the first half, ngl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisdom.4712 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 Anyone who has actually played thief for more than a few weeks quickly realizes they are sub-optimal at nearly every role except de-capping, running away and "ganking" targets who are at 3K health and completely distracted. They possess the physical resistance of wet tissue paper. I laugh and roll my eyes when a thief jumps me because I realize they can't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Wisdom.4712" said: > Anyone who has actually played thief for more than a few weeks quickly realizes they are sub-optimal at nearly every role except de-capping, running away and "ganking" targets who are at 3K health and completely distracted. They possess the physical resistance of wet tissue paper. I laugh and roll my eyes when a thief jumps me because I realize they can't do anything. ^ This. Let's not think about the current state of thief for a moment. We can agree on the mobility on thief being broken if it makes you feel better idc, just follow me for a second. Changing the initiative cost of a skill affects EVERYTHING. By making IA more expensive it not only nerfs mobility but also brings down overall damage output and utility access, since if you have to spend more on mobility then this means you can't spend it on a Heartseeker for example. Now this statement on its own is pretty obvious but this is especially important when considering how spending initiative is weaved together and the ini pool in general. Entering stealth is kitten expensive. You need to cast Black Powder which is 6 ini + at least one Heartseeker (an additional 3 ini) which costs entering stealth a minimum of 9 initiative.. That's 60% of a thief's entire ini pool (15), given they are using Trickery otherwise it's even 75%! (But realistically there's not a single viable thief build without Trickery since initiative is so fucking precious) So if you cast even 1 IA now, you don't even have enough to pull of a stealth combo so you have to wait for the missing initiative regenerated. This means you either have to slow down entering combat A LOT because you have to stand around waiting or you have to skip IA entirely.. Tweaking initiative costs has enormous impact on the entire playstyle of a build and with a skill so crucial to a thief's kit as IA it will affect every single meta build and most of the viable ones. An example for Shiro-Rev mains.. Imagine the cost of Riposting Shadow suddenly gets increased from 40 to 55 and swapping your legends won't reset your energy to 50% anymore and you keep your exact same energy pool across both legends.. Imagine how Rev effective Shiro would be then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. Not only due to thief being super fucking good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another fucking thief. Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. Or you can have 2 thieves on your team and most likely lose. Doesn't happen with other classes as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. Well, thats the hope with this change then. Maybe theyll nerf thieves mobility enough for other mobile classes (like warrior and ranger) to compete in PvPs vertical maps, in exchange for making thief an actually competent duelist again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. > > Or you can have 2 thieves on your team and most likely lose. Doesn't happen with other classes as much. try having 2 mesmers or 2 elementalists :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 4, 2020 Share Posted December 4, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > > > > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > > > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > > > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > > > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > > > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. > > > > Or you can have 2 thieves on your team and most likely lose. Doesn't happen with other classes as much. > > try having 2 mesmers or 2 elementalists :D Been there, done that. Still had higher chance to win simply because those 2 can fight while holding point (although mirage less so) where thief has to stealth to survive and do damage which leads them to lose point. Let make it so all classes lose few ticks of point when using healing spell or high damaging attack. Don't like it? Thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Chris.2183" said: > > > > > > > > > > > i mean cmon... > > > > > > > > > > > 8 ini is just to much, just the fact that many, many points of ini disappear into nothing, because of "no vaild path", before u kinda had a chance of getting away, u would steal, dodge and could inf shot again. I have been playing thief in platin for years now, so i now a thing or two, i do realize that i have a major handycap in playing with action cam compared to the avarage player, so "nvp" is much more of a problem for me, but still if u are in a fight just putting a reflex inf shot to the side as a last way of getting out and nothing happens "nvp", your ini is gone and u are dead.... its just a great feeling and now you are telling me those events are going to multiply and be even more finite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem here is that this fix is aimed at the meta dodge devil, but now it will be the only thing that can cope with the cost, because he does not depend as much on the sb as others. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DONT NERF THE WEAPONS, NERF THE TRAITS !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because now u are even further forced to play meta, which i dont and never will, meaning now im playing something that is even more inferior to meta than it was before, which is great for diversity and even greater for gameplay.... not... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW: easy fix for the problem, take away the energie on signet of agility, because now u have to think and can not go full kitten in fights knowing u always have a extra dodge when u need it, changes the whole gameplay. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that thief could kitten up their get away tool and still get away is the reason this nerf is in place, if I kitten up my blink I die as it should be, and hopefully thief will die on kitten ups one day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all this time ur still hating on thief lol too funny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had no reason to stop, there should never be a class that automatically loses you the game if you dont have it on a team > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again......lol I kno the standard rogue archetype is hard to eccept for some and learning to fight them is difficult, in time u and noiwk will learn to fight them like the rest of us have :) gl on ur thief removal ventures though as I agree its definitely easier to complain and cry OP on forums constantly compared to leaning to face things, dont worry though u guys arnt alone as most of the gw2 player community agrees :) > > > > > > > > > > > > keep thinking that, yet thief will still be mandatory, maybe its you who should learn to play thief and know its potential huh ? > > > > > > the fight that you think people get to "fight" thief already means you miss the point so there is no point in even talking about it > > > > > > > > > > I do well enough on thief and don't think it's a weak class at all, did I say that cuz don't remember doing so. I just think u guys dislike the class and are way exaggerating its "op'ness". Why is it I and a lot of players who don't play thief much or at all don't have these issues u guys have and don't view thief as some op god as u guys do? > > > > > Thief is strong at what it does and that's decap +1 and reply's on a cheap and gimmicky playstyle that actually does require skill but cheap and gimmicky all the same and once u learn them they arnt this huge problem like u guys make them out to be. Honestly at this point in the game this really is a l2p or get gud situation. Just cuz u have troubles with a class or find its methods annoying or unfun does not make it automatically OP. > > > > > Leo u play mesmer thee other class that uses cheap gimmick playstyle and skills and also happens to be countered by thief so... I see why'd be frustrated with the class but again it's normal for classes to have a couple counter within the roster. Noiwk I could be way off but u come off as a newer player who hasn't really played long enough to have learned all the ins and outs yet of each class. U also sound like warrior is ur preferred class and u having issues with thief on warrior probably has more to do with u not learning how to fight thief yet and the fact warrior is in a bad state right now wouldnt help ur situation either but still doesn't mean thief is OP. > > > > > > > > Im used to getting countered by thief and. I wouldnt mind if it took some effort. > > > > but what pisses me off the most, when you get high ranked game, and the enemy has a thief and you dont, you lose. > > > > Not only due to thief being super kitten good and needed in a team, but also due to the fact that the ONLY thing that can punish thief is another kitten thief. > > > > Should have watched when helseth streamed inhouses, after a while they realized that whenever they make a team without thief, that team stands no chance and spoke about having thief main in each team and then building teams. I personally find that wrong, give thief another roles for all I care, as long as its not mandatory, and I will preech it no matter the class. EVERY class should be a choice, and not a must. > > > > similar how warrior vs tempest as support is, both are good, warrior is slightly better now but you CAN switch it for tempest, there is no such thing with thief. > > > > > > Or you can have 2 thieves on your team and most likely lose. Doesn't happen with other classes as much. > > > > try having 2 mesmers or 2 elementalists :D > > Been there, done that. Still had higher chance to win simply because those 2 can fight while holding point (although mirage less so) where thief has to stealth to survive and do damage which leads them to lose point. > Let make it so all classes lose few ticks of point when using healing spell or high damaging attack. Don't like it? Thought so. you dont have to lose ticks to use healing skill, withdraw is plenty viable, and without shadow arts it wont stealth you, and I bet 2x thief is better then 2x mesmer anyways, cant say for ele since nobody plays it but I dont think ele would do very good, MAYBE weaver on side and tempest as support could be OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen.1483 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 Here is Teapot's message to thieves: 44:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandrogh.1530 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > you dont have to lose ticks to use healing skill, withdraw is plenty viable, and without shadow arts it wont stealth you, and I bet 2x thief is better then 2x mesmer anyways, cant say for ele since nobody plays it but I dont think ele would do very good, MAYBE weaver on side and tempest as support could be OK Don't worry few people use Hide in Shadow to heal as a thief. withdraw is often the best choice. Stealth is part of the gameplay of thief. Almost every build except p/p and s/p rely on stealth for staying alive and damage so loosing ticks when defending is hardly unavoidable. For exemple, staying on a point against an axe warrior who hit for 3k-4k/AA will get very harder with no stealth. Not impossible of course but playing thief should not be a purgatory. Or maybe all thief player are wrong and should play condi perma dodge ? ('till next nerf) And for your information 2 thieves are an insta loose in a lot of situation because it will be a 3v4 mid. Remember that thief bring few things in group fight to compare to ele (aoe/heal/cleanse etc) and mesmer (aoe, aoe, cc and damage). >@"Psycoprophet.8107" said: >It's funny cuz if u search the class sub forums thiefs forum is the one that has by far the most thread about new players or new thief players asking for help and tips on how >to be effective on thief and not get destroyed in sec's lol weird. ^sadly true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzardome.9184 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 man pls buff thief, class trash :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 @"Gandrogh.1530" tif players CAN sidenode, and beat the shit out of things like warriors with degen perma blind fields pistol builds that spam leech on blind. but its boring as fuck tbh, s/d can for example easy win against burn DH, you have hard time beating renegods but then again everyone has hard time beating them so its not much of an argument is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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