Serpents Ire, and POF maps getting dead maps very fast.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

 

Yes, Serpent's Ire and PoF bounties are well known for their total lack of CC requirements, making them easy for anyone to auto-attack to death.

[Fuchslein.8639]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > Yeah, no. Stop using "*hypothetical new player*" as a support for your feelings regarding the game. If it's not a problem for you, then it's not a problem for you. Meanwhile you say "it's not a problem for me, but it should be changed for new players!" -well, new players don't start in PoF and they have plenty of content on the way there to understand the game and improve on their gameplay. At that point they at least should slowly stop being "new".

> >

> > Today theres a person in Crystal Desert asking how transfer a exo amulet to another char, shes didnt know how to use the bank.

>

> I think it's important to remember that the player choosing to skip **the tutorial** isn't the tutorial's fault just as much as a user not reading the manual isn't the creator's/seller's/product's fault. I hope that's pretty understandable and not exactly negotiable?

>

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > Literally how can you know that? If you think that's unintended then create a thread reporting the bug in a bug report section of the forum. Same with the mobs near the vistas. But I doubt it's unintended.

> >> Also if you know that's what happens and that's an issue for you, then... kill the hydra before starting.

> >

> > Nope, i didnt need clear "all neighbour mobs" in any map(Core Tyria, Hot) except there. its clearly a design failure or even lazy work.

>

> You didn't need to, but then at one point you needed to and it stopped being an issue, because you did what you were supposed to do.

> What's "lazy" or "failure" about this design? Who said HP is supposed to be some isolated point with no connection to anything external? Anet sure didn't. So by what standards/logic/rules are you proclaiming this exactly? Because it's nothing known to me, that's for sure.

>

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:i doubt anyone love the perma-aggro in these maps.

> > >If it was really the case that every vista was supposed to be a safe harbor then why do they have the attributes like:

> > >-can't be interacted with while in-combat

> > >-invulnerable while viewing the cinematic

> >

> > Vistas in game dont have theses atribbute because the pattern inst have 1500 range aggro mobs positioned near it. Try find one like this even on new maps like Drizzlewood Coast, its doesnt have.

>

> You got it a bit backwards here. The whole point I made there is that **the vistas DO have these attributes**.

 

Which tutorial?

And now please don't say Core Tyria. Whoever calls this a tutorial doesn't know what a tutorial is.

And HOT? HOT needs its own tutorial so that players who come from the core game are not super frustrated there. And then they are told here in the forum that in POF everything will be better and poof. Empty maps and even more annoying mobs than in HOT, because often in much larger numbers.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > If you hate PoF maps for that, what's your take on Bitterfrost Frontier? I swear, there's a trigger on each winterberry spot that summons mobs when you get near them. Some spots even have parked mobs near them. Now THAT's a design fail, it's literally designed to annoy you.

> > >

> > > Why do people think that the mob spawn intended for players to play actively instead of passively gathering resources is a "design fail"? By what standard exactly? Is a pacman ghost a "design fail", because it's made to go for the player? Is a gap between the blocks in mario games a "design fail", because its whole purpose is making player press the jump button *at the correct time*?

> > > Seriously, lately I see these "design fail" claims being thrown carelessly at literally any part of the game someone doesn't like for *whatever reason*. A game having mechanics isn't a "design fail". Parts of the game that are made specifically to get the player to react *somehow* isn't a "design fail". Something being *maybe a bit too hard for me* is not a "design fail". Stop overusing terms.

> >

> > Please read the entire post before commenting, yes?

> >

> > I explained it all in the post.

>

> What am I supposed to pay special attention to? "because they disrupted your purpose. And that disruption is intentional."? Yes, it is on purpose. Yes, sometimes you need to plan your pathing or mind your surroundings while fighting. Yes, the mobsd near the nods spawn *on purpose*, because you're not supposed to afk farm those particular ones for free. Still not a "design fail".

> You're claming that mobs being parked near the nodes or mobs spawning at the nodes when you approach is a "design fail" -no, it's not. They have a purpose and they fulfill that purpose.

 

FIne, i'll repeat myself.

 

They designed the (specifically) winterberry nodes to spawn 3-5 mobs when you approach them.

They also designed the need to farm them by making everything cost tens of thousands of unbound magic and thousands of winterberry nodes if you want to get multiple stuff out of that vendor, not to mention the legendary trinket.

Hence - they knew players would likely need to spend a lot of time around those nodes. By that logic, they purposefully designed the mobs to be annoying.

 

It's bad design because one design choice clashes and gets direcly in the way of their other design choice. Both of which they consciously made. Meaning it's designed to provide annoyance. And annoying people on purpose is not a good thing, nor is it good design.

 

Good design would be either not spawning mobs and having the need for thousands of winterberries.

Or on the flip side - spawning mobs but not needing to spend so much time around those nodes.

 

Other permanent nodes are a great example of good design, and most other maps as well. Like in PoF, there's some permanent nodes that are harder to get to, and due to aggro range, any mobs you happened to pull on your way there, and some that got in aggro range while farming will need to be dealt with. But those mobs are already there, on the map, spread across its entirety randomly (more or less). The winterberry ones only appear when you approach the node.

 

You can defend it all you want but generally when you design something to be grinded - you don't also spit in someone's face while they do it. You encourage it by flashing pretty colors in front of them so that they're forgetting they're doing a repetitive task.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

 

What do you mean? Pretty sure people keep riding meta trains on both hot and pof maps, the only major outlier **seems** to be serpents ire that's being avoided because people do the other meta on vabbi map and "the few" still needing SI for collections are left to somehow organize players/squads by themselves. Am I being somehow out of touch here?

 

> @"Fuchslein.8639" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > Yeah, no. Stop using "*hypothetical new player*" as a support for your feelings regarding the game. If it's not a problem for you, then it's not a problem for you. Meanwhile you say "it's not a problem for me, but it should be changed for new players!" -well, new players don't start in PoF and they have plenty of content on the way there to understand the game and improve on their gameplay. At that point they at least should slowly stop being "new".

> > >

> > > Today theres a person in Crystal Desert asking how transfer a exo amulet to another char, shes didnt know how to use the bank.

> >

> > I think it's important to remember that the player choosing to skip **the tutorial** isn't the tutorial's fault just as much as a user not reading the manual isn't the creator's/seller's/product's fault. I hope that's pretty understandable and not exactly negotiable?

> >

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > Literally how can you know that? If you think that's unintended then create a thread reporting the bug in a bug report section of the forum. Same with the mobs near the vistas. But I doubt it's unintended.

> > >> Also if you know that's what happens and that's an issue for you, then... kill the hydra before starting.

> > >

> > > Nope, i didnt need clear "all neighbour mobs" in any map(Core Tyria, Hot) except there. its clearly a design failure or even lazy work.

> >

> > You didn't need to, but then at one point you needed to and it stopped being an issue, because you did what you were supposed to do.

> > What's "lazy" or "failure" about this design? Who said HP is supposed to be some isolated point with no connection to anything external? Anet sure didn't. So by what standards/logic/rules are you proclaiming this exactly? Because it's nothing known to me, that's for sure.

> >

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:i doubt anyone love the perma-aggro in these maps.

> > > >If it was really the case that every vista was supposed to be a safe harbor then why do they have the attributes like:

> > > >-can't be interacted with while in-combat

> > > >-invulnerable while viewing the cinematic

> > >

> > > Vistas in game dont have theses atribbute because the pattern inst have 1500 range aggro mobs positioned near it. Try find one like this even on new maps like Drizzlewood Coast, its doesnt have.

> >

> > You got it a bit backwards here. The whole point I made there is that **the vistas DO have these attributes**.

>

> Which tutorial?

> And now please don't say Core Tyria.

 

Why not? The difficulty is ramping up for a reason. If you skip major part of it and jump straight to late/endgame then you're the one to blame. And then you can always dial back and play in chronological order like you're logically supposed to.

 

>Whoever calls this a tutorial doesn't know what a tutorial is.

 

...but also literal tutorials including the information about bank on lvl 4, because very clearly that's what I was responding to. People skipping content and not reading pop-ups are doing it to themselves, I don't see how that's game's fault. "You" either want to get informed or "you" want to skip everything and run around pressing 1 to watch flashy colors and numbers popping up on the screen. But if that's what "you" choose, then don't blame the game for failing at some point, seems pretty simple to me.

 

> And HOT? HOT needs its own tutorial so that players who come from the core game are not super frustrated there. And then they are told here in the forum that in POF everything will be better and poof. Empty maps and even more annoying mobs than in HOT, because often in much larger numbers.

 

?

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > If you hate PoF maps for that, what's your take on Bitterfrost Frontier? I swear, there's a trigger on each winterberry spot that summons mobs when you get near them. Some spots even have parked mobs near them. Now THAT's a design fail, it's literally designed to annoy you.

> > > >

> > > > Why do people think that the mob spawn intended for players to play actively instead of passively gathering resources is a "design fail"? By what standard exactly? Is a pacman ghost a "design fail", because it's made to go for the player? Is a gap between the blocks in mario games a "design fail", because its whole purpose is making player press the jump button *at the correct time*?

> > > > Seriously, lately I see these "design fail" claims being thrown carelessly at literally any part of the game someone doesn't like for *whatever reason*. A game having mechanics isn't a "design fail". Parts of the game that are made specifically to get the player to react *somehow* isn't a "design fail". Something being *maybe a bit too hard for me* is not a "design fail". Stop overusing terms.

> > >

> > > Please read the entire post before commenting, yes?

> > >

> > > I explained it all in the post.

> >

> > What am I supposed to pay special attention to? "because they disrupted your purpose. And that disruption is intentional."? Yes, it is on purpose. Yes, sometimes you need to plan your pathing or mind your surroundings while fighting. Yes, the mobsd near the nods spawn *on purpose*, because you're not supposed to afk farm those particular ones for free. Still not a "design fail".

> > You're claming that mobs being parked near the nodes or mobs spawning at the nodes when you approach is a "design fail" -no, it's not. They have a purpose and they fulfill that purpose.

>

> FIne, i'll repeat myself.

>

> They designed the (specifically) winterberry nodes to spawn 3-5 mobs when you approach them.

> They also designed the need to farm them by making everything cost tens of thousands of unbound magic and thousands of winterberry nodes if you want to get multiple stuff out of that vendor, not to mention the legendary trinket.

> Hence - they knew players would likely need to spend a lot of time around those nodes. By that logic, they purposefully designed the mobs to be annoying.

 

I literally answered to that: they didn't "design them to be purposfully annoying", they designed them to prevent people from passively farming them with no interaction with the game. Nothing about that is supposed to be "annoying for the sake of being annoying", those mobs -as I already wrote above- have their purpose and they do fullfill that purpose. Somehow you told me to re-read and now... I still don't see how whatever you said there nullifies what I wrote and now repeated again.

 

> It's bad design because one design choice clashes and gets direcly in the way of their other design choice. Both of which they consciously made. Meaning it's designed to provide annoyance. And annoying people on purpose is not a good thing, nor is it good design.

 

No, it doesn't and I wrote above why. Just because you need to gather 100-1000-whatever amount of item doesn't mean you're supposed to do it in peace, basically by afk famring them. Nothing about this design collides with each other. If I need to kill a boss, additional mechanics aren't "design failure" because "they collide with my attempt of killing the boss". I don't know where you got the idea that you're supposed to have each part of the game be completely isolated from each other, but that's just not how it works.

 

btw. **literally** anything can be annoying to someone, which by your definition makes every game/mechanic in the existance a "bad design".

 

> Good design would be either not spawning mobs and having the need for thousands of winterberries.

> Or on the flip side - spawning mobs but not needing to spend so much time around those nodes.

 

Why? These nodes provide you with a way of getting ascended equipment (and at some point made for a source of some gold icome). You want it? -then you're required to at the very least *do something*, not just receive it for showing up. Especially when the way you want it to be would simply open them to some... unwanted passive gaming patterns.

 

> Other permanent nodes are a great example of good design, and most other maps as well. Like in PoF, there's some permanent nodes that are harder to get to, and due to aggro range, any mobs you happened to pull on your way there, and some that got in aggro range while farming will need to be dealt with. But those mobs are already there, on the map, spread across its entirety randomly (more or less). The winterberry ones only appear when you approach the node.

 

The other mobs aren't exactly "random" btw, but somehow it's a huge difference for you because the winterberry ones have animation of showing up when you approach (which btw gives you more time than you'd have without that animation)? Not to mention it might surprise someone... literally the first time they approach these nodes. After that you know they're there. So why are mobs standing next to node ok, but mobs you know will appear within 2 seconds with spawning animation are not ok and apparently "a design failure"?

 

> You can defend it all you want but generally when you design something to be grinded - you don't also spit in someone's face while they do it. You encourage it by flashing pretty colors in front of them so that they're forgetting they're doing a repetitive task.

 

Nobody spits in anyone's face because there are some mobs to kill in an mmorpg. I don't know what you're talking about right now.

Also nobody forces you to "do the repetitive task". You're literally doing it because you want the rewards. It's your choice. Even moreso when you have other sources of getting the items you're farming the berries for. But you're still farming the berries, because even with the mobs spawning on you, it's still the easiest one to use, eh? And it being so easy/reliable is the exact reason the mobs spawning there is perfectly fine.

[Cuks.8241]

We need a tutorial for everything. How dare they expect a player to figure something out by themself?

And that freaking Hydra, it's aggro range can overlap with a djinn HP monster. Insanity, who designed that kitten?! Poor new players just how much abuse can they take.

[Fuchslein.8639]

Because it's not just about the bank dude. GW2 explains you as good as nothing when you come to HOT, the same in POF. I understand that not everything should be presented on a silver spoon, but if not even core mechanics are explained ...

This then leads to people skipping content and are later even less clear than without already.

And even if people do not skip or rush content, many have problems as you can read here in the forum again and again.

I know this is hard for you forum veterans to understand, but it would be nice to have a discussion here where people are not discredited for not meeting a certain standard.

You can't expect anyone to feel great about being thrown from the mackerel tank into the shark tank.

I also see that people are advised to get mounts first (which is understandable, because otherwise you often get behind in core. I have experienced this myself many times with my new start without mounts) and then it is clear that they do not know such simple things?

Or this person just bought the mega-package like me and used their passport before they did anything else to get back to this person.

 

And if we are talking about assumptions. I just assume that less people were upset about POF, because many simply rushed or even skipped most of it, since POF offers almost no good loot anyway.

What I know is that a lot of people were upset about Bountys. The better loot, albeit random loot.

 

Even if the lag problems should be solved the POF maps will not become fuller. It will only lead to more problems for newcomers who will not everytime join guilds where there are experienced players who can help them with all sorts of things skillwise.

It's just wrong to always blame everything on the player. There are reasons why players do what they do and sure there are exceptions like this bank-dude, but most of the time it is less the players fault and more the games fault.

 

I have a friend who is super into the lore of GW2, she loves this game but is not a good player and has now not played for months because she was tortured by the content of POF only.

GW2 was once a game for casuals with a great community. The latter is still the case, at least IG. But the former ...

Anet just doesn't know where it's going anymore in my eyes. So much neglected or dead content, worse and worse episodes.

And the excuse for that is the new expansion....

 

Of course, all this is just my personal opinion as someone who started from scratch and only got along with many things because I already knew them.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

[BlueJin.4127]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> If you hate PoF maps for that, what's your take on Bitterfrost Frontier? I swear, there's a trigger on each winterberry spot that summons mobs when you get near them. Some spots even have parked mobs near them. Now THAT's a design fail, it's literally designed to annoy you.

 

Personally, I don't mind the spawn much. This is popular enough that the nodes are usually cleared of enemies by a previous player. Plus, the fact that all enemies spawn at once means it just takes a raptor engage and 1 AOE rotation to move on. But not being able to kill them with 1 AOE rotation and they constantly evade and run away... that is really annoying.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

 

Octovine and chak garent are done because they are much more rewarding, not because of the difference in mechanics.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

 

i do play very well thanks, thats why i take grypphon and fly over trying skipp map much as possible. bad map design with 1500+ aggro range and mobs overlapping every other all time inst a player issue, but bad design.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

>

> i do play very well thanks, thats why i take grypphon and fly over trying skipp map much as possible. bad map design with 1500+ aggro range and mobs overlapping every other all time inst a player issue, but bad design.

 

I have never seen enemies with that long of a range nor excessive groups of enemies throughout the entire map. It’s being exaggerated.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

>

> i do play very well thanks, thats why i take grypphon and fly over trying skipp map much as possible. bad map design with 1500+ aggro range and mobs overlapping every other all time inst a player issue, but bad design.

 

Interesting, seeing how many players don't have this problem. I'd still say in many -maybe most- cases it's just positioning issue of the player. Sure, there are areas designed to be especially tight/crowded with mobs, but if someone claims it's the issue universally true for whole pof maps then based on my experience that's just false, which to me points at it not being "bad design", but rather a "playstyle/player issue".

 

Also "taking griffon to skip everything" (while fun and definitely a viable/solid solution, don't get me wrong ;p) doesn't do anything to support the claim about someone being a good player with sufficient/high combat mechanics understanding, just saying.

[kharmin.7683]

This topic is starting to trend toward one already covered here: [https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118843/my-honest-feelings-about-map-mob-difficulty-in-pof](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118843/my-honest-feelings-about-map-mob-difficulty-in-pof#latest) No need to re-hash that thread in a new one. Let's keep on topic.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

> >

> > i do play very well thanks, thats why i take grypphon and fly over trying skipp map much as possible. bad map design with 1500+ aggro range and mobs overlapping every other all time inst a player issue, but bad design.

>

> Interesting, seeing how many players don't have this problem. I'd still say in many -maybe most- cases it's just positioning issue of the player. Sure, there are areas designed to be especially tight/crowded with mobs, but if someone claims it's the issue universally true for whole pof maps then based on my experience that's just false, which to me points at it not being "bad design", but rather a "playstyle/player issue".

>

> Also "taking griffon to skip everything" (while fun and definitely a viable/solid solution, don't get me wrong ;p) doesn't do anything to support the claim about someone being a good player with sufficient/high combat mechanics understanding, just saying.

 

being a good player is being able to use the tools to avoid annoyances.

 

the map are designed to use mounts, the problem is that once u are unlocky guy that are dismounted, u have to clear entire zone to get out of combat and mount again.

 

they should rethink this...

 

the mines zone entrance near quartz crystal in crystal oasis, is clear example of this. i know the "shortcuts" to skip combat there, but over-skill from my part just confirm bad design. to aggro overlap here is so huge, that i have memorized "hotspots" to use with griphon to avoid being hit. ... i wonder how the poor noobs perform here against the spam of veterans forged lolz.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

> > >

> > > i do play very well thanks, thats why i take grypphon and fly over trying skipp map much as possible. bad map design with 1500+ aggro range and mobs overlapping every other all time inst a player issue, but bad design.

> >

> > Interesting, seeing how many players don't have this problem. I'd still say in many -maybe most- cases it's just positioning issue of the player. Sure, there are areas designed to be especially tight/crowded with mobs, but if someone claims it's the issue universally true for whole pof maps then based on my experience that's just false, which to me points at it not being "bad design", but rather a "playstyle/player issue".

> >

> > Also "taking griffon to skip everything" (while fun and definitely a viable/solid solution, don't get me wrong ;p) doesn't do anything to support the claim about someone being a good player with sufficient/high combat mechanics understanding, just saying.

>

> being a good player is being able to use the tools to avoid annoyances.

>

> the map are designed to use mounts, the problem is that once u are unlocky guy that are dismounted, u have to clear entire zone to get out of combat and mount again.

>

> they should rethink this...

 

Except that you don't.

[ugrakarma.9416]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

>

> Octovine and chak garent are done because they are much more rewarding, not because of the difference in mechanics.

 

im fine if a mod merge topics.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > I've never got the whole PoF maps are too difficult complaint in this thread and the other active one on the general forum page. I was about to run low level alts doing all but the hearts and hero points which required fighting without any issues. I've not seen any issues with the aggro range of mobs either. It's clearly a learn to play issue with some players wanting the map to be like Queensdale. Fighting mobs is a part of the game. Expecting to traverse across the maps as a pacifist is absurd.

> > >

> > > i do play very well thanks, thats why i take grypphon and fly over trying skipp map much as possible. bad map design with 1500+ aggro range and mobs overlapping every other all time inst a player issue, but bad design.

> >

> > Interesting, seeing how many players don't have this problem. I'd still say in many -maybe most- cases it's just positioning issue of the player. Sure, there are areas designed to be especially tight/crowded with mobs, but if someone claims it's the issue universally true for whole pof maps then based on my experience that's just false, which to me points at it not being "bad design", but rather a "playstyle/player issue".

> >

> > Also "taking griffon to skip everything" (while fun and definitely a viable/solid solution, don't get me wrong ;p) doesn't do anything to support the claim about someone being a good player with sufficient/high combat mechanics understanding, just saying.

>

> being a good player is being able to use the tools to avoid annoyances.

>

> the map are designed to use mounts, the problem is that once u are unlocky guy that are dismounted, u have to clear entire zone to get out of combat and mount again.

>

> they should rethink this...

>

> the mines zone entrance near quartz crystal in crystal oasis, is clear example of this. i know the "shortcuts" to skip combat there, but over-skill from my part just confirm bad design. to aggro overlap here is so huge, that i have memorized "hotspots" to use with griphon to avoid being hit. ... i wonder how the poor noobs perform here against the spam of veterans forged lolz.

 

I wanted to make sure the areas you were talking about so I looked it up on the Wiki and went there in person. Just for reference, here is what the Wiki says:

 

_The Forged Foothold is an area in the eastern Crystal Oasis. It acts as the local headquarters as well as the staging grounds for raids for the Forged forces located in the oasis._

 

This is the headquarters for an enemy faction, of course it has a lot of mobs. These aren't just static mobs, they path, they are in groups, they are positioned to be layered in there to attack any intruders. Does it not stand to reason that these resource nodes (Quartz Crystal Formations in this case) were deliberately put in a more challenging area to farm?

 

What do you want? A free pass to anywhere on the map because you have a griffon? As I said in my first post, some areas are designed to challenge the player, some are designed for group play, while others are very very easy.

 

As an aside, while you still lean on the new player experience, a new player might not decide to farm the same nodes you have issue with given that the resource you pointed out, Quartz Crystal, is readily available through many sources and it is likely faster to farm gold and buy it on the TP.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

>

> Octovine and chak garent are done because they are much more rewarding, not because of the difference in mechanics.

Lets compare rewards before making baseless claims:

Octovine: amalgamated gemstone 5-6 rares requiring keys to open. Requires 100% participation to break even on the 5 keys. Near zero chance at a infusion

JR or Maws of Torment: amalgamated gemstone 3 rares, 2 chest that do not required keys

Chak gerent: amalgamated gemstone no rares, near zero chance at a infusion

Forging fire or serpents ire: amalgamated gemstone, 3 rares

Casino blitz: amalgamated gemstone, 3 rares, near zero chance at infusion.

All rewards are very comparable, and all are better than the world boss chain, the hordes favorite farm.

 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

> >

> > Octovine and chak garent are done because they are much more rewarding, not because of the difference in mechanics.

> Lets compare rewards before making baseless claims:

> Octovine: amalgamated gemstone 5-6 rares requiring keys to open. Requires 100% participation to break even on the 5 keys. Near zero chance at a infusion

> JR or Maws of Torment: amalgamated gemstone 3 rares, 2 chest that do not required keys

> Chak gerent: amalgamated gemstone no rares, near zero chance at a infusion

> Forging fire or serpents ire: amalgamated gemstone, 3 rares

> Casino blitz: amalgamated gemstone, 3 rares, near zero chance at infusion.

> All rewards are very comparable, and all are better than the world boss chain, the hordes favorite farm.

 

""Wild"" take: it doesn't matter "the chance is "near zero", it matters that the chance is there to directly influence popularity. Having enough participation consists of standing near the door (ok, ok, not standing -jogging in circles nearby) and spamming 1 on events.

I don't know about hordes at world boss and how many of those are simply core players, because I stopped doing them a long time ago. I'm also interested at the exact stats you have and where they came for. :D

 

________________

Anyways to go a bit more on topic:

-from what I've seen PoF metas don't have any significant participation problems as opposed to what some people claim

-multiple instances of the PoF maps "dying very fast", as in closing in succession is understandable and expected seeing how people crowd the map for the meta event/s, by doing so open multiple instances, complete the meta and then move on to do something else and by doing that, close those "meta-created instances". The same thing happens in HoT maps, this doesn't seem to be anything out of ordinary or "map specific".

-meta events that are problematic seem to be connected to the fact that there are multiple of them per map. In this case obviously the easier/faster will be picked most of the time. SI was nerfed (made easier) already, but people that did it near the release might already be fed up with it enough to not care to go back to it. I know I didn't until I needed it for the collection.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > > Nothing can help PoF after the short term players left it. The maps were designed for the 1 spammer zombie masses. Once a better 1 spamming meta come out, the horde left it to never return. Compare these to octovine or chak garent, these events still get done because they are engaging well designed encounters, but at the same time it makes the zombies heads hurt because they have things like cc bars and mechanics, no class has a hard cc on 1, the zombies have no chance.

> >

> > Octovine and chak garent are done because they are much more rewarding, not because of the difference in mechanics.

> Lets compare rewards before making baseless claims:

> Octovine: amalgamated gemstone 5-6 rares requiring keys to open. Requires 100% participation to break even on the 5 keys. Near zero chance at a infusion

> JR or Maws of Torment: amalgamated gemstone 3 rares, 2 chest that do not required keys

> Chak gerent: amalgamated gemstone no rares, near zero chance at a infusion

> Forging fire or serpents ire: amalgamated gemstone, 3 rares

> Casino blitz: amalgamated gemstone, 3 rares, near zero chance at infusion.

> All rewards are very comparable, and all are better than the world boss chain, the hordes favorite farm.

>

So cherry pick what are "rewards". Ok. Nevermind then.