Raiden The Beast.3016 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 This is the state of the game https://clips.twitch.tv/OddMiniatureSnakeNerfRedBlaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh > > Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) u mean HoT was a mistake, core gw2 with low damage was completely fine and meta like these would never happen. mechanically wise, every single espec are busted with exception of berserker after removing core burst skill, mechanically wise, berserker is lesser then core war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just let it die guys.. There's no hope left.. Anet doesn't even care anymore so we will never return to a "pre-whatever was the least scuffed state of the game"-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh > > > > Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) > > u mean HoT was a mistake, core gw2 with low damage was completely fine and meta like these would never happen. > > mechanically wise, every single espec are busted with exception of berserker after removing core burst skill, mechanically wise, berserker is lesser then core war. > You're looking at a snapshot of an old meta, frozen in time. We can't turn back the clock and see what would have happened to a [pre- HoT meta]( ) after years of balancing. It may very well have been the case that after years of Forum QQ, power dip may have put us in a similar spot we're in now. What we can say with certainty is that the Feb 2020 patch represents a drastic swing in tempo for pvp. This patch was directly responsible for slowing down fights, lowering dps, legnthening cooldowns, and removing tools players had at their disposal for countering tactics like this (e.g. hard nerfing many sources of might and quickness). Meanwhile I've been crying since before the patch hit "Stop! Think of the long term consequences!" I've seen this all happen before. Ah well, the forums got what they asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh > > > > > > Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) > > > > u mean HoT was a mistake, core gw2 with low damage was completely fine and meta like these would never happen. > > > > mechanically wise, every single espec are busted with exception of berserker after removing core burst skill, mechanically wise, berserker is lesser then core war. > > > > You're looking at a snapshot of an old meta, frozen in time. We can't turn back the clock and see what would have happened to a [pre- HoT meta]( ) after years of balancing. > It may very well have been the case that after years of Forum QQ, power dip may have put us in a similar spot we're in now. > > What we can say with certainty is that the Feb 2020 patch represents a drastic swing in tempo for pvp. This patch was directly responsible for slowing down fights, lowering dps, legnthening cooldowns, and removing tools players had at their disposal for countering tactics like this (e.g. hard nerfing many sources of might and quickness). > > Meanwhile I've been crying since before the patch hit > > "Stop! Think of the long term consequences!" I've seen this all happen before. Ah well, the forums got what they asked for. > 3 years of vanilla gw2, never had a single meta is close to this, or the meta HoT had on release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"felix.2386" said: > 3 years of vanilla gw2, never had a single meta is close to this, or the meta HoT had on release. Back then we had more build diversity...different build systems...of course the balance was better back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 "Because it didn't happen in 3 years, it would never happen in 8 years" isn't a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix.2386 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > "Because it didn't happen in 3 years, it would never happen in 8 years" isn't a valid argument. > > > stop defending your busted especs, i never said it will never happen, but HoT sure speed that up by immediately happening on release and more times in equal time span Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solitude.2097 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Its not before HoT was launched , that we had a money tournament , where : a) In the early stages/matches some WvWvW Guild > in Forest of Niflhel >Henge >Char Warrior was the first to introduced HammerBow and the stream was lauginng becuase the meta was Burst , and that spec was worthless :) b) 1 month before , S/d thieves tanks where unlocked (Supcutie dropped his Mesmer to play this spec in the money tourmaments?) c) Ranger was doing what a ranger do , evading till his pet kill the enemy (3k cirt tiger/eagle) d) Eles start coppying CMC , in the tournemnt and used the Power/Toughness/Ferocity +Fury buff from the traits e) Teldo ... imean Enginner was using Rabid amulet + bombs for the blind smoke field +850 burn per sec f) and then the casuals started using Bunker specs (coppying the pros) ...and every1 start crying about Bunkerwars.... ....forcing the company to create HoT spec (with high damage)....Rev.... to counter the meta that was created by the players and stop crying :) Why do you think Condition stack ?: a)counter Bunker or b) John Sharp , that played warrior , loved condition?:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loboling.5293 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh > > > > Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) > > u mean HoT was a mistake, core gw2 with low damage was completely fine and meta like these would never happen. > > mechanically wise, every single espec are busted with exception of berserker after removing core burst skill, mechanically wise, berserker is lesser then core war. > I actually think they eventually balanced HoT. Although at first it was crazy, but in the end, I was enjoying the meta before PoF came out. In HoT Major Things: (Once the dust had settled) Elementalist: AOE spam (Not good, but ele was already an aoe spam class, so it wasn't that much of a mixup, although support ele was fun and viable) Mesmer: Extra Shatter (Burst class, got extra burst, mesmers continue to 1 shot.) Necromancer: More Tanky and Melee burst (Necro was always focused first, so they gave them extra pressure to justify their vulnerability) Thief: Extra dodge & dodge skill (Made elusive thief more elusive) Ranger: Healer Form (Allowed Ranger to support) Engineer: Ranged Rez/stomp (Almost no change) Warrior: Additional burst (for a class that could already burst) Guardian: More Blocks & traps (Slow guardian, can now camp a spot) Rev: Created with Herald (Can't compare) As you can see, for the most part, they took what the classes already did and cemented their niches. So while balance took a while to sort out, the fundamentals still existed. Of course I won't defend season 1 with Chrono tank meta. Now let's look at PoF: Elementalist: Combo skills (more healing & evades for a class with tons of sustain - but this can be balanced) Mesmer: Dodge anytime (Can attack by dodging - terrible mechanic, cannot be balanced) Necromancer: AOE Spam (Now Necros aoe spam better than ele) Thief: Easy permanent invisibility + ranged burst (Who thought of this?!?! Either way, it's been mostly balanced by making it bad) Ranger: Extra Burst (Can be balanced, not so bad) Engineer: Super kit to replace all kits. (Could be balanced if the form was for utility instead of damage, time will tell) Warrior: Extra blocks & Interupts & boon rip (Can be balanced) Guardian: ALL THE THINGS (Firebrand is so bloated, it tore itself apart, cannot easily be balanced) Revanant: AOE Spam They were a lot more random with PoF elite specs, but the biggest issues were with Mesmer, Necro, Thief, Engineer, Guardian & Revenant. The mechanics and design of their elite specs would forever make balance a nightmare. I certainly miss pre-HoT too, but I don't think they let things slip out of control in the same way in that expansion. They shook it up, and managed to reorganize the meta into something fun, until PoF came out. I really hope they think about balance a bit when they make the next elite specs. My opinion: Good design: Tempest Weaver Chrono Reaper Daredevil Soulbeast Scrapper Berserker Spellbreaker Dragon-Hunter Okay: Druid Herald Holosmith Bad: Mirage Scourge Deadeye Firebrand Renegade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 ? That clip just speaks for itself and the state of PvP Not too late to CRTL + Z these patches, Anet. Think it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > "Because it didn't happen in 3 years, it would never happen in 8 years" isn't a valid argument. > > > > > > > > stop defending your busted especs, i never said it will never happen, but HoT sure speed that up by immediately happening on release and more times in equal time span > At what point did I defend elite specs? My focus has been on the Feb 2020 patch. To be more clear. Elite specs are a factor in bringing us the meta we have now, but that does not mean that, had Anet never created them, we would never have been in a meta similar to this. That was the point I made. HoT, and parts of PoF have shown us that the game is capable of being sufficiently balanced and enjoyable to play in spite of, or arguably because of Elite specs. Instead of focusing on that, I chose instead to focus on the patch **directly responsible** for slowing the game down. That was its intended goal, and it pushed too far. It and the subsequent patches which have shared the same direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Honestly its not even surprising how many gw2 players think this meta is great, I mean the meta builds are thee most brain dead little risk huge reward builds and exactly what most of its remaining sad population likes to play. Also most of the now meta classes are the popular classes within the community. Also not surprising that the games population continues to tank. Look at the passive burning playstyle of burn guards/burn dh or necros of any kind oh shit im getting out played so time to be carried by lich and 5k autos lmao or rev/renegades I don't even have to say. Not long ago it was engi/holo spamming nades lol. Games a complete mess right now when pvp is concerned. Anet have no clue how to balance pvp nor does cmc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I thought this is what pvp community wanted. What is the problem? With love, your neighborhood thief <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 It takes tea pot to highlight gw2 gbage pvp state? Ok.... Population speaks for itself, pre feb wasn't great but feb patch wasn't the way to go and now things are far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme.3164 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Not that I want to detract anything from the general sentiment but at the end of the day this is and will remain a PvE focused MMO...like all others MMO the general setting is PvE based and that's the main reason many people bought the game. At this point the only solution would be to completely detatch PvP from the rest of the game and create something different alltogether , any further strict balance will simply ruin the game for the majority of the playerbase that is not nearly as invested in PvP. The class design is too lenient to allow a stricter interaction between professions at this point, everything has been designed to be self-sufficient and the meta will always revolve around those which are the best at that and unless you make all professions equals that will always be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > I thought this is what pvp community wanted. What is the problem? > > With love, > your neighborhood thief <3 *Quietly filing nails* ♬ _They did it to themselvessss_ ♬ Imagine thinking people wouldn't build as immortal as possible if you let them, couldn't be me~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlie.7641 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 There is nothing they can do at this point to fix this game honestly. What made gw2 have the best combat was is simply didn't have the bloat other mmorpg's have. Most Mmorpg's are polluted with CC's, Aoe spam, Combo's, ect, these where all limited in gw2 at launch. after 8 year's we have the same amount (or more) as any other mmorpg, but this game was never designed for it. you can't fix these problems with numbers tweaks, so we get more and more traits / mechanics that basically carry the player. We are now at the point where every single profession is low skill high reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailorz.5426 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 subbed to wow see ya on expansion release day the first balance patch since feb 2020 woooooooooooooooooooooooooo this game is trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solitude.2097 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Can you immagine for a sec , if this could a be an elaborate plan by the community .? And in responce the company creates more HoT necros and Rev , in the next expansion ?:) And in the 4th expanion if the meta is Burst , create some bunker stuff that can burst like Pof Enginner ?:) Ofc will come back on the 4th , 6th expanion :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > "Because it didn't happen in 3 years, it would never happen in 8 years" isn't a valid argument. > > > > > > > > stop defending your busted especs, **i never said it will never happen**, but HoT sure speed that up by immediately happening on release and more times in equal time span Here's your first post: > @"felix.2386" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > Did that really happen? If so I don't know whether I should be disgusted or laugh > > > > Feb 2020 was a mistake :^) > > u mean HoT was a mistake, core gw2 with low damage was completely fine **and meta like these would never happen**. Sooo... that's literally what you said. :D Inb4 "stop defending broken specs!" -I'm not defending anything, just stop saying you didn't say something that you literally said. :grimace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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