Sobx.1758 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crunchbone.7341 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 I started GW2 in the beta. I loved the core game, but never did get around to HOT (although I did pre-purchase HOT and POF). Things in life happened & I have recently come back to get all the mounts & play through the rest of my personal story, POF, LWS4, & all of the Icebrood Saga so far. After I finish the XP for my last Pact mastery track, I am finally off for HOT & LWS3. I loved POF, but have to say that mobs see me coming a mile away, & that means mobs, not only one or two! I have learned to fight them finally, but it is so relaxing to go back to some of the older areas & do achievements where I can sit & look at the view or my achievement panel without dying, lol. The Skyscale helps in the POF areas as I can hover high, but I have to be very careful where I take a break to read about my next conquest in the newer maps. I think the early game is just fine for new players (& for me when I just want to chill). There are plenty of too hard things to try even in the early maps to challenge ones' self in my opinion. I think it gives a good chance to learn the mechanics of the game & combat without the utter chaos of say some of the branded areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > If it's not enough of a challenge, you can always try zones leveled higher. Yes ... THIS. I don't get it ... if it's too easy for people, what's stopping them from going where it's harder for them to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? thats what i did...and the new character is even stronger sometimes than my main character..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? > > thats what i did...and the new character is even stronger sometimes than my main character..... If it is, then instead of gearing yourself, maybe help with gearing your newb friend instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > > > > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? > > > > thats what i did...and the new character is even stronger sometimes than my main character..... > > If it is, then instead of gearing yourself, maybe help with gearing your newb friend instead. i did :) hes even geared better than me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 If you feel like you're stealing kills from your friend, can you have your friend tag them first? That way you both get credit for the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > > > > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > > > > > > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? > > > > > > thats what i did...and the new character is even stronger sometimes than my main character..... > > > > If it is, then instead of gearing yourself, maybe help with gearing your newb friend instead. > > i did :) hes even geared better than me Then how are you ksing everything with autoattacks before he can do anything? And if you're duoing mobs on low level mobs designed for new players to learn the game without being oppressed by npcs, then maybe aim at going to higher level zones. This seems like a made up problem with easy solutions that are intentionally not used for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJin.4127 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 When I was playing WoW, you only had access to like 2 or 3 skills for the first few hours. THAT was a turn off because I could barely keep myself awake. In GW2, I think leveling is in a pretty good place, combat and difficulty wise. I do think core Tyria maps are outdated, mechanically. It could definitely have less focus on hearts and could use some metas in low level zones. I think even one worthwhile meta (not world bosses) per each race’s starting zone would be great. Doing little outside of hearts for 80 levels isn’t fun, and I no longer manually level characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artcreator.4859 Posted February 25, 2021 Author Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? made a new character and its still easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"artcreator.4859" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? > > made a new character and its still easy Did you read the rest of the comment chain? You have options, like going to a higher level maps. Early levels are made with new players in mind, which is where they're learning basics of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noobfury.8167 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 Howdy, New player here learning the game . So far the progression seems to be fairly balanced , not to easy not to difficult. The exp is fairly easy to obtain which is likely to enable new players to progress to level 80 as quickly as possible so they can get to the endgame content without too much of a grind . Ive played a number of mmorpg's over the last few decades with ESO being the most recent. ESO as an example is much easier. I was able to solo world bosses and dungeons before reaching max level in that game. I like the positive atmosphere in this game. There are plenty of players in the starter areas and most are helpful. It's fun doing group events which Ive found are very difficult to solo in most cases having died many times. I was focused on map completion for a bit but then I kind of got a little annoyed with the whole platform jumping for vistas thing based on how long it can take at times so I figure I will just go back and do those later. Not really my cup of tea. Starter areas could use a makeover , they seem a little dated. I also think I spend more time studying the skill system then I do actually playing the game. Nice to see there are over a million active players as well. Surprised I passed this one up over the years. Looking forward to the after level 80 content and wvw . I hope it will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 The starter zones are designed to be approachable by the lowest common denominator. A lot of us are seasoned gamers around here, so we've lost perspective on how [low that denominator is.]( ) Anet wants to sell this game to people who don't know what hit points are, who don't know how to type yet, who don't know what damage is, who don't know how to auto attack. A lot of the lower level enemies may seem like they're trivial gimmies to us, but that is because we know how to play the game. But, there are potential players out there who upon being attacked will quickly panic, freeze, look at their keyboard, struggle to remember where the keys are, struggle to remember what the keys do, begin mashing randomly hoping that something will happen, panic again when they open a bunch of windows, ask the nearest person what they should do, and then maybe they'll mouse over the auto attack skill and click on it. Even if these enemies are so easy that you can slaughter them in mass by auto attacking, even that is not guaranteed for a new player. And that is why we need a defiance bar tutorial somewhere in the early game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > The starter zones are designed to be approachable by the lowest common denominator. A lot of us are seasoned gamers around here, so we've lost perspective on how [low that denominator is.]( ) Anet wants to sell this game to people who don't know what hit points are, who don't know how to type yet, who don't know what damage is, who don't know how to auto attack. A lot of the lower level enemies may seem like they're trivial gimmies to us, but that is because we know how to play the game. But, there are potential players out there who upon being attacked will quickly panic, freeze, look at their keyboard, struggle to remember where the keys are, struggle to remember what the keys do, begin mashing randomly hoping that something will happen, panic again when they open a bunch of windows, ask the nearest person what they should do, and then maybe they'll mouse over the auto attack skill and click on it. Even if these enemies are so easy that you can slaughter them in mass by auto attacking, even that is not guaranteed for a new player. > > And that is why we need a defiance bar tutorial somewhere in the early game. And, what I found a bit hard to get my head around at first when coming from another MMO: I couldn't pick which skills and the order of them in my 1-0 slots. Which is also a big difference from GW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astyrah.4015 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Hesione.9412" said: > And, what I found a bit hard to get my head around at first when coming from another MMO: I couldn't pick which skills and the order of them in my 1-0 slots. Which is also a big difference from GW1. also came from other mmorpgs. i was able to get around the fixed weapons skills pretty quickly when i was new, my main gripe back then was i couldn't have a "hotbar 2" to put consumables and other items (non skills) on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said: > The starter zones are designed to be approachable by the lowest common denominator. A lot of us are seasoned gamers around here, so we've lost perspective on how [low that denominator is.]( ) Anet wants to sell this game to people who don't know what hit points are, who don't know how to type yet, who don't know what damage is, who don't know how to auto attack. A lot of the lower level enemies may seem like they're trivial gimmies to us, but that is because we know how to play the game. But, there are potential players out there who upon being attacked will quickly panic, freeze, look at their keyboard, struggle to remember where the keys are, struggle to remember what the keys do, begin mashing randomly hoping that something will happen, panic again when they open a bunch of windows, ask the nearest person what they should do, and then maybe they'll mouse over the auto attack skill and click on it. Even if these enemies are so easy that you can slaughter them in mass by auto attacking, even that is not guaranteed for a new player. > > And that is why we need a defiance bar tutorial somewhere in the early game. Absolutely agree on the starter zones. The problem is that it doesn't change much from there, especially through out core. Many players, after getting over those perfectly understandable initial hurdles you describe either get overly complacent or slowly see their interest in the active combat system, movement etc. fade as they more and more realise that really all their buttons are redundant, and that if they wanted to they could just Autoattack everything down. Why that is an issue is because the seemingly majority of players, even by level 80 and beyond, still don't know things like either even how or at least when to dodge, or that dodging is a tool to be used against attacks that you can't just walk out of. Whenever I'm in OW I constantly see player's frantically trying to double dodge out of an incoming AoE Hit, burning all of their endurance, just to then get hit at the end anyway, when they either could have just taken a shorter path and walked out, or ideally timed a single dodge inside the AoE without moving at all to avoid it. Similarly timing and utilising CrowdControl. It feels like the Nr. 1 use of CC in Open World is knocking mobs out of other player's AoE's, essentially helping the mobs out and frustrating other players, by randomly hitting the buttons, while then in turn failing any and all interrupts or breakbars for which one is supposed to save those skills (who's primary purpose is largely CC, while generally doing less damage than even an Auto Attack). Boons and to a lesser extend conditions especially seem utterly undervalued or forgotten and I can almost guarantee that every player struggling with the game isn't aware of the fact that they can just select 2-3 Traits these days on most professions to grant themselves sheer perma 25 Might and Fury, which together with often even easier acessable 25 Vulnerability in many cases can double or even triple their damage, in turn massively increasing their survivability as well by defeating mobs before they ever even get to act. Speaking of survivability, Circle strafing is another big one ofc, and I don't think many players realise that by (turning off melee assist in the options and) simply strafing around and through enemies, one is able to avoid a good 90% of all melee attacks by making them swing/bite/claw into thin air. The Core experience simply never requires a player to stop and think, to master or even just learn any of these fundamental systems. I don't think anyone is asking for Queensdale to be tough as nails, throwing new player's into a frustrating hell, but imo the game does need a gentle curve upwards from 15-80 (at least if they want to grow the new playerbase with such things as a Steam release), which conveys the need to understand those systems, so that players then later aren't completely overwhelmed in (let's be honest, largely still incredibly easy, **If** one has learned those game systems) expansion content and beyond. It's not like failure and death are punished in any real way in GW2 already, so really those moments are nothing but learning opportunities, and I don't know why people seem to be getting so allergic to those. Without those moments to make player's look at their Skills, Traits, Skill use etc. to reconsider or better understand, there won't ever be room for growth, unless through already existing intrinsic motivation to be better - which then creates a massive rift in the community of those who do have that, and those who don't, making content delivery for the game extremely challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Astyrah.4015" said: > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > And, what I found a bit hard to get my head around at first when coming from another MMO: I couldn't pick which skills and the order of them in my 1-0 slots. Which is also a big difference from GW1. > > also came from other mmorpgs. > > i was able to get around the fixed weapons skills pretty quickly when i was new, my main gripe back then was i couldn't have a "hotbar 2" to put consumables and other items (non skills) on it The other thing is when people say "CC" they don't mean "CC". They mean "break bar" (BB?). That one still annoys me, coming from a game (you can guess which one) where having CC, and how much CC, was the turning point for some raids - particularly when most of the raid group was still gearing up. CC == "adds". The first few times I heard it, I was looking out for the adds. Also "break bar" has as many syllables in it as "CC", so it's not like "CC" is quicker to say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > @"Astyrah.4015" said: > > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > And, what I found a bit hard to get my head around at first when coming from another MMO: I couldn't pick which skills and the order of them in my 1-0 slots. Which is also a big difference from GW1. > > > > also came from other mmorpgs. > > > > i was able to get around the fixed weapons skills pretty quickly when i was new, my main gripe back then was i couldn't have a "hotbar 2" to put consumables and other items (non skills) on it > > The other thing is when people say "CC" they don't mean "CC". They mean "break bar" (BB?). That one still annoys me, coming from a game (you can guess which one) where having CC, and how much CC, was the turning point for some raids - particularly when most of the raid group was still gearing up. CC == "adds". The first few times I heard it, I was looking out for the adds. > > Also "break bar" has as many syllables in it as "CC", so it's not like "CC" is quicker to say.... No what they say is use cc= crowd control skills to nuke the break bar. So instead of saying cc the bb they stop at cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > @"Astyrah.4015" said: > > > > @"Hesione.9412" said: > > > > And, what I found a bit hard to get my head around at first when coming from another MMO: I couldn't pick which skills and the order of them in my 1-0 slots. Which is also a big difference from GW1. > > > > > > also came from other mmorpgs. > > > > > > i was able to get around the fixed weapons skills pretty quickly when i was new, my main gripe back then was i couldn't have a "hotbar 2" to put consumables and other items (non skills) on it > > > > The other thing is when people say "CC" they don't mean "CC". They mean "break bar" (BB?). That one still annoys me, coming from a game (you can guess which one) where having CC, and how much CC, was the turning point for some raids - particularly when most of the raid group was still gearing up. CC == "adds". The first few times I heard it, I was looking out for the adds. > > > > Also "break bar" has as many syllables in it as "CC", so it's not like "CC" is quicker to say.... > > No what they say is use cc= crowd control skills to nuke the break bar. > So instead of saying cc the bb they stop at cc. _When I was a new player_ it was confusing to hear cc used to mean break this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar. I was used to running raids where multiple players had the role of cc because one player might not be enough to cc all the adds (those heady days of frost mages, chain trapper hunters, and rogues for sapping). The point of the cc was to limit the number of fighting enemies that one was facing, hence "crowd control". _When I was a new player_ I thought cc meant adds were coming that needed to be handled. _When I was a new player_ I had no idea about soft versus hard break skills. Given that I still haven't got the achievement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Shatterer_(achievements)#No-fly_Zone I'm not sure that players understand breaking the defiance bar is needed. I've also seen this failure on other NPCs: matriarch and PoF bounties to name a few. _Even when a waystation has been placed._ _Even when "cc" has been called out._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromx.3941 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 So the OP is basically saying that we have too many OP "meta" builds that are trivializing content? Ok lets fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 > @"Hesione.9412" said: > Given that I still haven't got the achievement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Shatterer_(achievements)#No-fly_Zone I'm not sure that players understand breaking the defiance bar is needed. I've also seen this failure on other NPCs: matriarch and PoF bounties to name a few. _Even when a waystation has been placed._ _Even when "cc" has been called out._ People might just not know the encounter, not know about the achievement or simply... not care, because breaking that bar is not obligatory to succeed (but yeah, some might not know what break bar even is at that stage of the game). I randomly joined some late night world boss squad for shatterer ~3 days ago because I needed it for collection and the cc phase succeeded every time simply because the commander explained they'll be trying to go for the achievement. Sometimes all that's needed is a little communication and coordination. Pretty much a single person did that because they cared enough to coordinate the "randoms" (to be clear, he didn't explain what cc or bb is, he told a group of people to stay near the platform and be ready to glide>use bombs/pulse when needed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > > > > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > > > > > > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? > > > > > > thats what i did...and the new character is even stronger sometimes than my main character..... > > > > If it is, then instead of gearing yourself, maybe help with gearing your newb friend instead. > > i did :) hes even geared better than me This sounds suspicious to me ... no new character is stronger than a main ... unless your main is untraited and running around naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 > @"Hesione.9412" said: > Given that I still haven't got the achievement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Shatterer_(achievements)#No-fly_Zone I'm not sure that players understand breaking the defiance bar is needed. That one is problematic, because the breakbar is tuned so high it's practically impossible to break with using class cc skills alone. You need to have a significant number of players using the bomb skill from gliding in order to be able to deal enough breakbar damage (when i say significant number, i mean somewhere between 25 to 50% of all players, depending of how efficient the glider attacks would be - see further on that). Another problem is that the timing is so tight, you need to be either at the launchpad or already in the air when the breakbar appears in order to be in time. If you start running to launchpad when you see the first sign of breakbar phase starting, you will be too late. Which requires people checking the timer. Which, again, gets compolicated, because timer is not constant - it gets affected by the length of each healing crystal spawn phase (basically, the internal, invisible timer for breakbar phases stops when crystals appear, and starts again only once they all get destroyed, which takes a variable amount of time). That's why it's next to impossible to see the breakbar broken ina normal, pug attempt. You generally only see that when there's enough discord-coordinated players involved to take care of that part of mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggranya.5201 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 > @"artcreator.4859" said: > It's just too easy, been playing with new people and they wanted to quit due to the first leveling maps, its just a steam roll, walk up, press 1 on key board, move on, It's a great game, but man the level of quality from the new stuff and the old is massive, almost 2 different games. love the game though and looking forward to next xpac, hopefully it can fix this so the game can have a better future. Funny, considering that's not how i felt when i started, which is something i can assume we share considering you're still here. That's a problem for your friends, not the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > > > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > > > > > > > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards > > > > > > > > > > Just make a new character that you only use with your friend, what's the issue here? > > > > > > > > thats what i did...and the new character is even stronger sometimes than my main character..... > > > > > > If it is, then instead of gearing yourself, maybe help with gearing your newb friend instead. > > > > i did :) hes even geared better than me > > This sounds suspicious to me ... no new character is stronger than a main ... unless your main is untraited and running around naked. A lot of moonys interaction/comments here seems 'suspicious' to me as well. Don't bite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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