Please Scrap Underwater combat.

[Irreverent.3594]

> Please Scrap Underwear combat.

Ok enough of new year for me

[yoni.7015]

I don’t want more underwater combat. It is no fun.

[BaconReaper.5719]

Underwater Combat could easily be a selling point of this game... Just an overhaul including a balance patch, new map and maybe two 1h underwater weapons to give it a bit of a makeover.

[battledrone.8315]

this was one of the best features IMO, too bad they didnt go anywhere with it

i still think , that a full blown quaggan expansion could have saved it

[CptAurellian.9537]

Imho, existing underwater content should be left untouched (except Aquatic fractal, rework that one to a terrestrial one, please). No need to delete that stuff. However, given the tremedous amount of rework underwater combat would need in general to make it playable, I'm very happy with ANet's current path of completely abandoning underwater content. The work required to fix all its flaws could probably create two or three regular expansions, which I definitely prefer.

[psizone.8437]

Gotta say, I really miss the underwater fights in the quaggan pond on the old WvW borderland maps.

 

They should have reworked some of the skills years ago instead of shelving it and avoiding underwater content. I was pretty mad (not keyboard rage, just a "why the hell would they do that?") when I played through HoT on Revenant when it was released and got to an underwater portion of a map and half of my skills wouldn't work.

[Gilgamesh VII.8690]

Under water is great in this game, it just needs big improvements somthing that makes going into the water fun and not getting frustrated because half of your traits or skills are useless, or your in viper gear and you water weapons offer no decent condi attacks.

 

What I would like to see is:

 

*Make aquabreathers just a skin slot and use the normal helmet stats.

*Rework each classes underwater weapons so there is a power wepon and the other is condi weapon this will probely mean that ele, Rev and engineer will need another weapon each.

*Use of all utility skills, just change the ones that can't be done under water to another version that makes sense.

*Fix the Rev so all his legends can be use underwater.

*Add an underwater mount for faster travel underwater.

 

Underwater combat can be great it just needs some love and attention from the devs.

[Miss Lana.5276]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> ANet has virtually removed underwater combat from the game. There are far fewer areas today than there were originally, including reduced aquatic areas in WvW. There are no underwater World Bosses, only a single underwater instance of challenging content, no new aquatic weapon skins, only a fraction of added underwater skills for revenant and the elite specs.

 

Not to mention the mount that completely removes swimming entirely. I think it's safe to say that the selling point of underwater combat at release is now a dead meme.

[Sojourner.4621]

Underwater combat does need an overhaul I think, but not as drastic as some people believe. There are a few classes that need some existing overland utilities/heals/trait-lines to be converted to underwater ones (revenant most especially). Beyond that, the biggest issue with underwater combat is that it is slow, and brings the entire game combat to a screeching halt when the overland typically feels fast paced and impactful. This is largely a power creep issue from elite specs and balancing, and to fix this, it's mostly a numbers tweaking game. A lot of underwater skills could be improved heavily in damage without affecting pvp environments significantly, particularly if every class gets the same treatment. If it really becomes a balance problem, drain the remaining water from the WvW areas. A number tweak alone that made everything underwater hit as hard and as fast as it does above would be enough to fix most of the issues with underwater combat just feeling bad (as long as you add in those utility skills I mentioned earlier... it never feels good to have your build style completely change to something useless the moment you step off land).

 

For the people with Spacial Awareness problems: The best solution to this would be to take spacial awareness mostly out of the equation. How do you do this without getting rid of the three-dimensional movement? Think old ranger longsword or new daredevil staff. Ranged weapons (Trident and Speargun) don't really have much of an issue underwater as they will track towards your target. If every melee skill underwater moved you **towards** your target but didn't move you **through** your target, as current staff Weakening Charge does, then that would make the combat feel better, but also make it so the people with poor spatial awareness no longer have to guess if they are close enough to hit what they are targeting.

[Odokuro.5049]

I actually find underwater combat oddly refreshing. I enjoy swimming in real life, and being able to do it in a game and mix combat into it, is just a big plus for me. Besides if they remove underwater combat/mechanics, they are removing a large part of their game and future possibilities.

[notebene.3190]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Tsakhi.8124" said:

> > I don't think it should be scrapped, rather, as others have said, it should be _improved_ on. I have the reaction time of an uncultured potato and I did okay underwater. My main problem is that my sense of spatial reasoning got messed with something fierce. Like, I was bouncing from one enemy to go towards a weaker enemy so that I wouldn't die. : p

> >

> > (Most of the time it was like "Sayeh, plz." ...*randomly flails about, pretending to do something useful.*)

>

> This person mentions the major problem with u/w combat, and it's not the combat itself or the mechanics....it's spatial recognition, if this many people have issues with spatial recognition that says a lot for the sad state of humanity(at least those that play GW2). It used to be that people where taught how to pick an object as a focus point and use that to figure out your surroundings, you can do the same thing for 3d environments that require spatial recognition, which underwater combat in GW2 definitely does require.

>

> If they could improve the way that people can use spatial recognition to gauge distance to enemies that would be the biggest improvement to u/w combat in this game. Then make sure that all Elite specs have the full complement of 2 u/w weapons and skills, then go from there.

 

This is the part that confuses me. I've seen posts (and one upstream here) that simply say, "underwater combat sucks" or "we all know underwater combat sucks" (I guess "we all know" is like "many people", and it just becomes a fact?). So, let's take skills out of the equation. I get why they didn't make some skills work underwater, but let's just for sake of argument say we have all our skills underwater. And let's take away wanting 'more' weapons and skills underwater, because who wouldn't want 'more' of a thing? And finally, the fallacy that the only reason we can't use a spear on land is because underwater combat exists, because really?

 

So we have all the same skills we use on land, and we go underwater and fight. What is the problem? Is there something 'else' about fighting underwater that 'sucks'? Is it just this spatial recognition part, and since I don't have any, I demand you remove that part of the game, even if other people have spatial recognition and enjoy that part of the game?

 

I enjoy underwater combat. Sure, I wish I had all my skills. Yeah, it would be neat to have more weapons. Yes, a dry-land spear weapon (or 'any' new weapons) would be great. But it would be super helpful when having underwater combat discussions if we could separate the two types of discussions, because it gets muddled when people say 'underwater combat sucks' without any context. Especially the 'i have no spatial recognition, therefore i hate' folks, whether they then add a 'therefore you should remove' on the end or not, as it distorts the greater picture.

 

It would be like me participating in a PvP discussion, what is missing, what would make it better, what types of play fields or scenarios would be fun. I have no 'spatial recognition' for PvP (WvW can be fun :p), and wouldn't presume to just drop by a post about that and say 'we all know PvP sucks'.

 

So, besides spatial recognition problems, and the fact that combat is three dimensional (which, it is), and for sake of argument, we'll say we have all our skills, what about underwater combat (that we 'all know') sucks?

[draconicrose.6213]

I do like underwater combat and want to see it improved. Mainly I just like exploring and having things to do underwater though, so I wouldn't be opposed to the land skills being used underwater.

[Aeolus.3615]

I bet pve players would love a large karka underwanter boos fight or some....

 

has some other thread sujest... release the underwater kraken.

[Carighan.6758]

Frankly with how bad land combat is since HoT, I would **not** want underwater to be any more like it...

[Liewec.2896]

as a MM i agree, i HATE every puddle i come across.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"notebene.3190" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > @"Tsakhi.8124" said:

> > > I don't think it should be scrapped, rather, as others have said, it should be _improved_ on. I have the reaction time of an uncultured potato and I did okay underwater. My main problem is that my sense of spatial reasoning got messed with something fierce. Like, I was bouncing from one enemy to go towards a weaker enemy so that I wouldn't die. : p

> > >

> > > (Most of the time it was like "Sayeh, plz." ...*randomly flails about, pretending to do something useful.*)

> >

> > This person mentions the major problem with u/w combat, and it's not the combat itself or the mechanics....it's spatial recognition, if this many people have issues with spatial recognition that says a lot for the sad state of humanity(at least those that play GW2). It used to be that people where taught how to pick an object as a focus point and use that to figure out your surroundings, you can do the same thing for 3d environments that require spatial recognition, which underwater combat in GW2 definitely does require.

> >

> > If they could improve the way that people can use spatial recognition to gauge distance to enemies that would be the biggest improvement to u/w combat in this game. Then make sure that all Elite specs have the full complement of 2 u/w weapons and skills, then go from there.

>

> This is the part that confuses me. I've seen posts (and one upstream here) that simply say, "underwater combat sucks" or "we all know underwater combat sucks" (I guess "we all know" is like "many people", and it just becomes a fact?). So, let's take skills out of the equation. I get why they didn't make some skills work underwater, but let's just for sake of argument say we have all our skills underwater. And let's take away wanting 'more' weapons and skills underwater, because who wouldn't want 'more' of a thing? And finally, the fallacy that the only reason we can't use a spear on land is because underwater combat exists, because really?

>

> So we have all the same skills we use on land, and we go underwater and fight. What is the problem? Is there something 'else' about fighting underwater that 'sucks'? Is it just this spatial recognition part, and since I don't have any, I demand you remove that part of the game, even if other people have spatial recognition and enjoy that part of the game?

>

> I enjoy underwater combat. Sure, I wish I had all my skills. Yeah, it would be neat to have more weapons. Yes, a dry-land spear weapon (or 'any' new weapons) would be great. But it would be super helpful when having underwater combat discussions if we could separate the two types of discussions, because it gets muddled when people say 'underwater combat sucks' without any context. Especially the 'i have no spatial recognition, therefore i hate' folks, whether they then add a 'therefore you should remove' on the end or not, as it distorts the greater picture.

>

> It would be like me participating in a PvP discussion, what is missing, what would make it better, what types of play fields or scenarios would be fun. I have no 'spatial recognition' for PvP (WvW can be fun :p), and wouldn't presume to just drop by a post about that and say 'we all know PvP sucks'.

>

> So, besides spatial recognition problems, and the fact that combat is three dimensional (which, it is), and for sake of argument, we'll say we have all our skills, what about underwater combat (that we 'all know') sucks?

 

The biggest complaint I've seen from players is that they can't judge distance to enemies and it causes them to waste skills, and with the number of players that complained about that in the past I wouldn't imagine it has lessened any with newer players...that's what spatial recognition is...or using triangulation to determine distance from a particular object. If there's other primary items that make people dislike underwater combat then add them to this thread...perhaps as a group we can come up with solutions that would make underwater combat more palatable to the player base in general.

[notebene.3190]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"notebene.3190" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"Tsakhi.8124" said:

> > > > I don't think it should be scrapped, rather, as others have said, it should be _improved_ on. I have the reaction time of an uncultured potato and I did okay underwater. My main problem is that my sense of spatial reasoning got messed with something fierce. Like, I was bouncing from one enemy to go towards a weaker enemy so that I wouldn't die. : p

> > > >

> > > > (Most of the time it was like "Sayeh, plz." ...*randomly flails about, pretending to do something useful.*)

> > >

> > > This person mentions the major problem with u/w combat, and it's not the combat itself or the mechanics....it's spatial recognition, if this many people have issues with spatial recognition that says a lot for the sad state of humanity(at least those that play GW2). It used to be that people where taught how to pick an object as a focus point and use that to figure out your surroundings, you can do the same thing for 3d environments that require spatial recognition, which underwater combat in GW2 definitely does require.

> > >

> > > If they could improve the way that people can use spatial recognition to gauge distance to enemies that would be the biggest improvement to u/w combat in this game. Then make sure that all Elite specs have the full complement of 2 u/w weapons and skills, then go from there.

> >

> > This is the part that confuses me. I've seen posts (and one upstream here) that simply say, "underwater combat sucks" or "we all know underwater combat sucks" (I guess "we all know" is like "many people", and it just becomes a fact?). So, let's take skills out of the equation. I get why they didn't make some skills work underwater, but let's just for sake of argument say we have all our skills underwater. And let's take away wanting 'more' weapons and skills underwater, because who wouldn't want 'more' of a thing? And finally, the fallacy that the only reason we can't use a spear on land is because underwater combat exists, because really?

> >

> > So we have all the same skills we use on land, and we go underwater and fight. What is the problem? Is there something 'else' about fighting underwater that 'sucks'? Is it just this spatial recognition part, and since I don't have any, I demand you remove that part of the game, even if other people have spatial recognition and enjoy that part of the game?

> >

> > I enjoy underwater combat. Sure, I wish I had all my skills. Yeah, it would be neat to have more weapons. Yes, a dry-land spear weapon (or 'any' new weapons) would be great. But it would be super helpful when having underwater combat discussions if we could separate the two types of discussions, because it gets muddled when people say 'underwater combat sucks' without any context. Especially the 'i have no spatial recognition, therefore i hate' folks, whether they then add a 'therefore you should remove' on the end or not, as it distorts the greater picture.

> >

> > It would be like me participating in a PvP discussion, what is missing, what would make it better, what types of play fields or scenarios would be fun. I have no 'spatial recognition' for PvP (WvW can be fun :p), and wouldn't presume to just drop by a post about that and say 'we all know PvP sucks'.

> >

> > So, besides spatial recognition problems, and the fact that combat is three dimensional (which, it is), and for sake of argument, we'll say we have all our skills, what about underwater combat (that we 'all know') sucks?

>

> The biggest complaint I've seen from players is that they can't judge distance to enemies and it causes them to waste skills, and with the number of players that complained about that in the past I wouldn't imagine it has lessened any with newer players...that's what spatial recognition is...or using triangulation to determine distance from a particular object. If there's other primary items that make people dislike underwater combat then add them to this thread...perhaps as a group we can come up with solutions that would make underwater combat more palatable to the player base in general.

 

What if they had some sort of range indicators around skills, kinda like the outlines you get on skills that have ammo? In range, no indicator. Up to X, one color, over X another color? I'm a tab-target player, so not really sure how that would work for action combat people? How does that targeting work? Is there any 'stickiness' to it, like how SWL works? If not, maybe they could add a target stickiness for up to a few seconds on your last target to give you a second or two to judge your indicators?

 

Or, I suppose they could make it so you can't use skills out of range under water. As an elementalist, that might make me sad, as some abilities (though, not sure if my underwater weapons work that way or not) you can lob for longer than the range and still make contact with a target. :)

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"notebene.3190" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > @"notebene.3190" said:

> > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > @"Tsakhi.8124" said:

> > > > > I don't think it should be scrapped, rather, as others have said, it should be _improved_ on. I have the reaction time of an uncultured potato and I did okay underwater. My main problem is that my sense of spatial reasoning got messed with something fierce. Like, I was bouncing from one enemy to go towards a weaker enemy so that I wouldn't die. : p

> > > > >

> > > > > (Most of the time it was like "Sayeh, plz." ...*randomly flails about, pretending to do something useful.*)

> > > >

> > > > This person mentions the major problem with u/w combat, and it's not the combat itself or the mechanics....it's spatial recognition, if this many people have issues with spatial recognition that says a lot for the sad state of humanity(at least those that play GW2). It used to be that people where taught how to pick an object as a focus point and use that to figure out your surroundings, you can do the same thing for 3d environments that require spatial recognition, which underwater combat in GW2 definitely does require.

> > > >

> > > > If they could improve the way that people can use spatial recognition to gauge distance to enemies that would be the biggest improvement to u/w combat in this game. Then make sure that all Elite specs have the full complement of 2 u/w weapons and skills, then go from there.

> > >

> > > This is the part that confuses me. I've seen posts (and one upstream here) that simply say, "underwater combat sucks" or "we all know underwater combat sucks" (I guess "we all know" is like "many people", and it just becomes a fact?). So, let's take skills out of the equation. I get why they didn't make some skills work underwater, but let's just for sake of argument say we have all our skills underwater. And let's take away wanting 'more' weapons and skills underwater, because who wouldn't want 'more' of a thing? And finally, the fallacy that the only reason we can't use a spear on land is because underwater combat exists, because really?

> > >

> > > So we have all the same skills we use on land, and we go underwater and fight. What is the problem? Is there something 'else' about fighting underwater that 'sucks'? Is it just this spatial recognition part, and since I don't have any, I demand you remove that part of the game, even if other people have spatial recognition and enjoy that part of the game?

> > >

> > > I enjoy underwater combat. Sure, I wish I had all my skills. Yeah, it would be neat to have more weapons. Yes, a dry-land spear weapon (or 'any' new weapons) would be great. But it would be super helpful when having underwater combat discussions if we could separate the two types of discussions, because it gets muddled when people say 'underwater combat sucks' without any context. Especially the 'i have no spatial recognition, therefore i hate' folks, whether they then add a 'therefore you should remove' on the end or not, as it distorts the greater picture.

> > >

> > > It would be like me participating in a PvP discussion, what is missing, what would make it better, what types of play fields or scenarios would be fun. I have no 'spatial recognition' for PvP (WvW can be fun :p), and wouldn't presume to just drop by a post about that and say 'we all know PvP sucks'.

> > >

> > > So, besides spatial recognition problems, and the fact that combat is three dimensional (which, it is), and for sake of argument, we'll say we have all our skills, what about underwater combat (that we 'all know') sucks?

> >

> > The biggest complaint I've seen from players is that they can't judge distance to enemies and it causes them to waste skills, and with the number of players that complained about that in the past I wouldn't imagine it has lessened any with newer players...that's what spatial recognition is...or using triangulation to determine distance from a particular object. If there's other primary items that make people dislike underwater combat then add them to this thread...perhaps as a group we can come up with solutions that would make underwater combat more palatable to the player base in general.

>

> What if they had some sort of range indicators around skills, kinda like the outlines you get on skills that have ammo? In range, no indicator. Up to X, one color, over X another color? I'm a tab-target player, so not really sure how that would work for action combat people? How does that targeting work? Is there any 'stickiness' to it, like how SWL works? If not, maybe they could add a target stickiness for up to a few seconds on your last target to give you a second or two to judge your indicators?

>

> Or, I suppose they could make it so you can't use skills out of range under water. As an elementalist, that might make me sad, as some abilities (though, not sure if my underwater weapons work that way or not) you can lob for longer than the range and still make contact with a target. :)

 

There is a range indicator. Have you ever noticed that sometimes there is a little red bar underneath a skill on your bar? If it is there you're out of range of your target with that skill.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Please add more underwater combat, and work on improving the skills, etc. that players may find lacking. Players do care for the mechanic.

>

> Thank you in advance, Devs.

 

This.

Please re-invest and finish off that underwater combat. Maybe not for PvP/WvW, but PvE feels more immersive with it included, if we could just use our skills.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

> @"ToPNoP.2493" said:

> In world versus world I have come across some ranger specs that can not be killed underwater. They can res and heal to their fullest capacity even when being hit while downed. Maybe I am missing something, and it has been a while since I fought a ranger/druid/soulbeast underwater, but I simply do not follow them there. I don't want to scrap underwater combat, it adds an interesting dynamic to the game. What would be really cool is being able to use finishers underwater.

 

This is one of the main reasons for stomping or some kind of finishing is needed in underwater combat, ranger class skills underwater are already greater than most, however even downing one in water and they will res faster than you can DPS, so it's a no win. Down them, they res, down them, they res over and over until they get the upper hand. Don't even get started with the more bunker specced ones, where myself as full glass DH and another SB both DPSing and the pet still resing faster than we could kill.

 

Most of this is due to zero balance in this area, which has been since day one, even when rangers were the class no one wanted in a group, if you chased one and it went to water, NO ONE went after them, unless you just wanted to waste the next hour of your life. Fixing skills and fixing lots of mechanics etc for underwater combat would go along way and adding the ability to finish.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Apolo.5942" said:

> People dont really care for the mechanic.

>

> Just use regular combat with 3d movement and recycle the weapons for the clases in regular combat.

>

> You get a riffle variation and a single and 2 handed spears (spears and tridents respectively).

 

Who are you to tell me what I care or care not for... maybe try speaking for yourself and not assume you are speaking for everyone else, cos guess what I think your wrong.

 

Personally I like UW combat in GW2, best I have played in many, many years of playing MMO's.

 

Sure it needs a little love and a balance tweak but show me an MMO that doesn't require balancing in all areas of their combat systems from time to time... the issue here is its been neglected by ANET and not brought up to current levels of land based combat.

 

 

[Draconerus.9867]

I agree! I they should of just kept the normal weapons and skills underwater. There was no need to diversify them in this manner.

[dmone.5631]

I like the idea of underwater combat, but it has been kind of ignored since the launch of GW2. I should be reevaluated and new mechanics added.

[azureai.9764]

+1 for more underwater combat. Guild Wars is a game that does it relatively right.

 

But it certainly seems from the latest direction that the devs may very well disagree. Still, if they ever want to introduce Bubbles the Water Dragon, they'll be confronted with the need to retool water combat at that point.

[Lexi.1398]

I like that we have underwater combat, it provides a whole part of the world - most mmos and games as a whole don't even let you swim, nevermind go underwater and even fewer FIGHT underwater. It makes the game so much richer, and rn, its untapped potential.

 

IMO- to fix it-

-Underwater mounts. yeah. Now we have land mounts underwater just becomes 100x more boring with the slow swim speed.

-(not a huge hting but also please help the asura swim. their legs...how they move that fast...)

 

-Complete rehaul of underwater weapons and skills.

-> Make more abilities usable underwater. Looking especially at revenant, but many classes are guilty of having half or more of their skills locked because they don't work underwater. Introduce entirely new underwater only skills if we have to.

 

-> More underwater weapons - we have 3 right now. A lot of classes can't even use more than one. It's also annoying to have to switch weapons in the hero screen while leveling because equipping a new weapon takes up the second weapon switch slot for all professions except ele and it's useless, lol. We don't need a huge selection, but i think each class should be able to use at least 3 types of underwater weapons.

 

-> A large pet peeve of mine, make a button for actually going underwater obvious - that is, please please PLEASE make the dive down button make you go underwater if swimming on the surface. This is my largest annoyance with underwater bosses - getting back underwater once on the surface after being downed. Idk if this is just a bug or something with my laptop or what, but currently there isn't a button that does this for me.

 

-> Improve underwater combat: -3d direction indicators for enemy attacks -More underwater speed boosts -I'd like to be able to dodge upwards/downwards more easily but tbh idk how they could do that.