Ascended Gear was a Mistake

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > if at least the armor stat was done like GW1 then we would not have that problem, they can keep the infusion slots in ascended gear but all armors should have the same armor stat to level the plain field.

> > > >

> > > > Good news then! Everyone can make ascended. The playing field is level.

> > >

> > > no, not everyone has the time and/or dedication to make one.

> > > also, it needs 400 crafting and that is not something easily done, if anyone can just buy it from a vendor with only gold then you can talk about a leveled playing field.

> >

> > Getting a crafting discipline to 400costs from 17g to 30g. It most certainly is cheap, even by doing dailies you are able to do it within a few days. Most materials are purchaseable from tp. How is that hard?

>

> so you measure cost with hardship?

> what about time, what about effort, what about even caring about crafting in the first place?

> also, like i said it, should be like GW1.

> all armor equal regardless of rank, then rank them by slot types and amount.

 

Uhm... It takes 20 mins to get to 400 at any crafting discipline. There is even a guide for all of them, fast way and cost efficient way. Or maybe, just MAYBE, dont make ascended, if it is too much bother. If content seems boring to you, if content seems to require too much effort or if you dont care about it, just DO NOT PLAY IT. Its been 5 years since ascended were introduced, they are easy to get nowadays, you can change their stats at a small cost , they have little difference to exotics and fractals above 25 is the ONLY content where they are absolutely needed. Seriously.

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > if at least the armor stat was done like GW1 then we would not have that problem, they can keep the infusion slots in ascended gear but all armors should have the same armor stat to level the plain field.

> > > >

> > > > Good news then! Everyone can make ascended. The playing field is level.

> > >

> > > no, not everyone has the time and/or dedication to make one.

> > > also, it needs 400 crafting and that is not something easily done, if anyone can just buy it from a vendor with only gold then you can talk about a leveled playing field.

> >

> > Getting a crafting discipline to 400costs from 17g to 30g. It most certainly is cheap, even by doing dailies you are able to do it within a few days. Most materials are purchaseable from tp. How is that hard?

>

> so you measure cost with hardship?

> what about time, what about effort, what about even caring about crafting in the first place?

 

 

 

Gw2crafts.net will get you from 1-400/500 in any craft about 20mins. It really isn’t that difficult.

[MachineManXX.9746]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > > > if at least the armor stat was done like GW1 then we would not have that problem, they can keep the infusion slots in ascended gear but all armors should have the same armor stat to level the plain field.

> > > >

> > > > Good news then! Everyone can make ascended. The playing field is level.

> > >

> > > no, not everyone has the time and/or dedication to make one.

> > > also, it needs 400 crafting and that is not something easily done, if anyone can just buy it from a vendor with only gold then you can talk about a leveled playing field.

> >

> > Getting a crafting discipline to 400costs from 17g to 30g. It most certainly is cheap, even by doing dailies you are able to do it within a few days. Most materials are purchaseable from tp. How is that hard?

>

> so you measure cost with hardship?

> what about time, what about effort, what about even caring about crafting in the first place?

> also, like i said it, should be like GW1.

> all armor equal regardless of rank, then rank them by slot types and amount.

 

Tiered gear is a fundamental element of this game. ALL gear takes SOME effort to acquire. The better gear that you want, the more effort that you must expend. You have the choice to expend as much effort as you are comfortable with. People who put in more time and effort will in fact have better gear. As I replied earlier, the playing field cannot be more level as everyone has the same access to gear. If someone has ascended gear, that means they took the steps to acquire said gear. You, and everyone else, can also take these steps to acquire said gear. Or, is your account flagged to not allow ascended gear? That would be the only possible way that the playing field is not level.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Purple Miku.7032" said:

> > Those of you that are complaining about difficulty/effort required to obtain ascended gear really don't know how crazy you sound from someone that has played many different MMOs.

> >

> > Look, there needs to be *some* form of time sinks involved in MMOs. Currently GW2 doesn't really have a lot of intrinsic goals set for players in terms of gear progression aside from legendary weapons (and armor now too I guess?) and some players like to have things to work towards. Nowadays ascended gear is really easy to obtain compared to years ago and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to whine about it being too inaccessible because the fact of the matter is that it has more avenues of acquisition than it used to and it doesn't even cost as much either.

> >

> > Also there needs to be at least *some* ways to improve your gear multiple years along the road comparatively to when you first hit level 80. Having the exact same stuff forever and ever is inevitably going to become tiresome for the majority of players and their interest will waver from a lack of things to do. Obviously I'm not saying that they'd quit the game only because of no ascended gear, but my point is that change is necessary for player retention because people need to feel like the game is giving them more things to do. People like to see improvements with their gear over time, so having an extra tier that requires a bit more effort to obtain than a few hours is a pretty solid implementation if you ask me.

>

> and they can do this by adding ways to improve the stats and bonuses, armor stat always need to be equal just like GW1.

 

No all same stats fair is fair asc should just be nerfed to exotic lvl but with infusion slot and no stat change then this topic would be satisfied

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > if at least the armor stat was done like GW1 then we would not have that problem, they can keep the infusion slots in ascended gear but all armors should have the same armor stat to level the plain field.

> >

> > Good news then! Everyone can make ascended. The playing field is level.

>

> no, not everyone has the time and/or dedication to make one.

> also, it needs 400 crafting and that is not something easily done, if anyone can just buy it from a vendor with only gold then you can talk about a leveled playing field.

 

400 is easily done if you just farm all the nodes you encounter during events or map completion. Then it is just a matter of half an afternoon, or less.

[Rauderi.8706]

Ascended isn't the mistake.

It's the entire stat system.

Stat sets blocked by expansions.

Stat sets that don't exist.

And when a new stat set comes out that's better for the meta, the grind begins again, costing players resources to keep up. While not as frequent as other MMOs' raids, we have our own sort of unforgivable gear treadmill.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Stat system is fine.

 

Many things are blocked behind expansions.

 

Not all stat sets need to exist both because of balancing issues and that most of the ones we have are underutilized.

 

The cost of resources is fairly low for armor and weapons as we can stat swap ascended.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> Ascended isn't the mistake.

> It's the entire stat system.

> Stat sets blocked by expansions.

> Stat sets that don't exist.

> And when a new stat set comes out that's better for the meta, the grind begins again, costing players resources to keep up. While not as frequent as other MMOs' raids, we have our own sort of unforgivable gear treadmill.

 

I completely agree that ascended gear was never a mistake. Players claiming it was are either not aware of how easy it _can_ be to acquire or just not prepared to make the effort. As mentioned multiple times before, with the exception of fractals, no content _requires_ any ascended gear. I'd list the easiest way to get full ascended but I believe others have already gone over this.

When it comes to the "treadmill" argument (new stat combinations, new meta etc), I would say that it may not appeal to 100% of players but is great for the economy and keeps people playing. When I log in, I consider what I'll be working to achieve, how to get there and the feats/tasks required. Of course I enjoy the reward of acquisition, but rarely find the journey there too "grindy" (appart from maybe getting _Pulsing Brandsparks_ - drop rate for me has been practically non-existent).

[ProtoGunner.4953]

It's quite normal to work to get BiS gear. A lot of ppl back in 2012 never came back be cause exotic gear war so easy to get and there wasn't anything to do after world completion (from a PvE perspective). I welcomed the introduction of Ascended gear and it isn't that hard to get. And once you have it you never have to worry about a higher tier of gear which is an issue in many other MMOs. It's a good middle way, and if you have problems to get ascended gear: holy shit, just play the game and earn your stuff. At least this complain isn't as ridiculous as the one with the griffon which costs a ridiculous 200g, which is farmed in like 2 days.

[Linken.6345]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> It's quite normal to work to get BiS gear. A lot of ppl back in 2012 never came back be cause exotic gear war so easy to get and there wasn't anything to do after world completion (from a PvE perspective). I welcomed the introduction of Ascended gear and it isn't that hard to get. And once you have it you never have to worry about a higher tier of gear which is an issue in many other MMOs. It's a good middle way, and if you have problems to get ascended gear: holy kitten, just play the game and earn your stuff. At least this complain isn't as ridiculous as the one with the griffon which costs a ridiculous 200g, which is farmed in like 2 days.

 

250g mate.

[Rauderi.8706]

> "Ayrilana.1396" said:

> Stat system is fine.

 

It's ill-conceived and frustrating. Not to mention the stats themselves vary greatly in utility *before* accounting for a combat system that encourages active damage mitigation. So the *stats themselves* are part of the problem, but it's far too ingrained in everything that is GW2 to fix. But, the entire notion of Attribute Combinations is utterly gob-smacking to the typical MMO player coming into GW2, and it's not doing veteran players any favors.

 

> Many things are blocked behind expansions.

 

Builds should not be blocked behind expansions. No bueno design.

New class options obviously the exception, and I shouldn't have to say that out loud.

 

> Not all stat sets need to exist both because of balancing issues and that most of the ones we have are underutilized.

 

Gee, most of the ones we have *are underutilized,* while stat sets at the extremes (Berserker, Viper, etc) of damage are the ones causing balance issues. \o/ Yay.

But more to point, with ready-made stats as they are, I can't obtain stats in combinations I want until ANet decides to release them in a future Living World episode or I kludge together my set from different, still-not-good-enough pieces with stats I don't want or need. It took until Year 5 and a side-story release to see Harrier, for example, and it's still not tuned to what I'd like, not to mention obnoxious to obtain because of the rarity of Crystal Lodestones. Not a fan of the PoF sets using ley sand either, but at least that's reasonably obtained by playing the game.

 

> The cost of resources is fairly low for armor and weapons as we can stat swap ascended.

 

I don't raid or follow meta, so I mostly can't speak to this, but it does mean shoving out several gold to grab infusion extractors, losing runes/sigils and having to buy already-rare ones again (upwards of 30+g, probably), and in the very least, paying out for new insignias and inscriptions if you're not using Legendary gear.

Sure, one can say "good for the economy" or some other excuse, but it's not fair to folks who thought they had the best gear and suddenly don't, while GW2 talks out the other side of its face saying "gear is good for all eternity!"

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > "Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Stat system is fine.

>

> It's ill-conceived and frustrating. Not to mention the stats themselves vary greatly in utility *before* accounting for a combat system that encourages active damage mitigation. So the *stats themselves* are part of the problem, but it's far too ingrained in everything that is GW2 to fix. But, the entire notion of Attribute Combinations is utterly gob-smacking to the typical MMO player coming into GW2, and it's not doing veteran players any favors.

 

It’s a combination of many things that just one in my opinion. I think the sheer number of stats is a little convoluted though.

 

> > Many things are blocked behind expansions.

>

> Builds should not be blocked behind expansions. No bueno design.

> New class options obviously the exception, and I shouldn't have to say that out loud.

 

Builds have been locked behind expansions in other games. I vaguely remember skills introduced in expansions for GW1 were blocked. I think there was a purchaseble for PvP to have all skills though.

 

> > Not all stat sets need to exist both because of balancing issues and that most of the ones we have are underutilized.

>

> Gee, most of the ones we have *are underutilized,* while stat sets at the extremes (Berserker, Viper, etc) of damage are the ones causing balance issues. \o/ Yay.

> But more to point, with ready-made stats as they are, I can't obtain stats in combinations I want until ANet decides to release them in a future Living World episode or I kludge together my set from different, still-not-good-enough pieces with stats I don't want or need. It took until Year 5 and a side-story release to see Harrier, for example, and it's still not tuned to what I'd like, not to mention obnoxious to obtain because of the rarity of Crystal Lodestones. Not a fan of the PoF sets using ley sand either, but at least that's reasonably obtained by playing the game.

 

I don’t believe it’s the stats themselves causing any balance issues but rather the skills/abilities and what each class offers. Not all classes are treated equally for any given role and that in itself is difficult to do.

 

> > The cost of resources is fairly low for armor and weapons as we can stat swap ascended.

>

> I don't raid or follow meta, so I mostly can't speak to this, but it does mean shoving out several gold to grab infusion extractors, losing runes/sigils and having to buy already-rare ones again (upwards of 30+g, probably), and in the very least, paying out for new insignias and inscriptions if you're not using Legendary gear.

> Sure, one can say "good for the economy" or some other excuse, but it's not fair to folks who thought they had the best gear and suddenly don't, while GW2 talks out the other side of its face saying "gear is good for all eternity!"

 

Fairly minor costs compared to crafting an entire new armor and what you can potentially see in other games. The metas don’t change all that much stat-wise either so this need is a rarity. DPS has been berserker since launch and condi has been vipers since Oct 2015.

[Dreddo.9865]

I don't think it's a mistake either. I personally started farming exotic gear in dungeons then slowly training the armorsmith profession and crafting the materials I needed for my first ascended armor set. I found the whole experience motivating and enjoyable.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> There is no point to Ascended gear other then to serve as something pointless to work towards thats not very fun to obtain, and it serves as a tool for others to exclude you from content. Wow fun, great idea. I think they had it right with gw1, were you just got the stats you needed and played the game.

>

> Just think if they hadn't gone to all the trouble of implementing ascended gear we might have dyeable weapons or back pieces, or maybe build templates, like we had in GW1.

 

Ascended gear was introduced between 2012-2013, and is here to stay, so where do we go from here bud? You are also 5 years late with the feedback, so do you have any constructive ideas to add “easier” paths (that’s your real gripe) to ascended gear?

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > There is no point to Ascended gear other then to serve as something pointless to work towards thats not very fun to obtain, and it serves as a tool for others to exclude you from content. Wow fun, great idea. I think they had it right with gw1, were you just got the stats you needed and played the game.

> >

> > Just think if they hadn't gone to all the trouble of implementing ascended gear we might have dyeable weapons or back pieces, or maybe build templates, like we had in GW1.

>

> Ascended gear was introduced between 2012-2013, and is here to stay, so where do we go from here bud? You are also 5 years late with the feedback, so do you have any constructive ideas to add “easier” paths (that’s your real gripe) to ascended gear?

 

Gemstore would be a great option! I mean, people asked for wxp to get available in gemstore, why not ascended. Eh? RIGHT?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > > "Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Stat system is fine.

> >

> > It's ill-conceived and frustrating. Not to mention the stats themselves vary greatly in utility *before* accounting for a combat system that encourages active damage mitigation. So the *stats themselves* are part of the problem, but it's far too ingrained in everything that is GW2 to fix. But, the entire notion of Attribute Combinations is utterly gob-smacking to the typical MMO player coming into GW2, and it's not doing veteran players any favors.

>

> It’s a combination of many things that just one in my opinion. I think the sheer number of stats is a little convoluted though.

>

> > > Many things are blocked behind expansions.

> >

> > Builds should not be blocked behind expansions. No bueno design.

> > New class options obviously the exception, and I shouldn't have to say that out loud.

>

> Builds have been locked behind expansions in other games. I vaguely remember skills introduced in expansions for GW1 were blocked. I think there was a purchaseble for PvP to have all skills though.

>

> > > Not all stat sets need to exist both because of balancing issues and that most of the ones we have are underutilized.

> >

> > Gee, most of the ones we have *are underutilized,* while stat sets at the extremes (Berserker, Viper, etc) of damage are the ones causing balance issues. \o/ Yay.

> > But more to point, with ready-made stats as they are, I can't obtain stats in combinations I want until ANet decides to release them in a future Living World episode or I kludge together my set from different, still-not-good-enough pieces with stats I don't want or need. It took until Year 5 and a side-story release to see Harrier, for example, and it's still not tuned to what I'd like, not to mention obnoxious to obtain because of the rarity of Crystal Lodestones. Not a fan of the PoF sets using ley sand either, but at least that's reasonably obtained by playing the game.

>

> I don’t believe it’s the stats themselves causing any balance issues but rather the skills/abilities and what each class offers. Not all classes are treated equally for any given role and that in itself is difficult to do.

>

> > > The cost of resources is fairly low for armor and weapons as we can stat swap ascended.

> >

> > I don't raid or follow meta, so I mostly can't speak to this, but it does mean shoving out several gold to grab infusion extractors, losing runes/sigils and having to buy already-rare ones again (upwards of 30+g, probably), and in the very least, paying out for new insignias and inscriptions if you're not using Legendary gear.

> > Sure, one can say "good for the economy" or some other excuse, but it's not fair to folks who thought they had the best gear and suddenly don't, while GW2 talks out the other side of its face saying "gear is good for all eternity!"

>

> Fairly minor costs compared to crafting an entire new armor and what you can potentially see in other games. The metas don’t change all that much stat-wise either so this need is a rarity. DPS has been berserker since launch and condi has been vipers since Oct 2015.

 

Solution too build nerf any meta build made