MarshallLaw.9260 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. Everyone has the right to be wrong :lol:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"miraude.2107" said: > Istan, Sandswept Isles and Kourna are just fillers. A repeat of the maps of Bloodstone Fen, Bitterfrost Frontier, Lake Doric, Draconic Mons and Siren's Landing. Hardly. These maps (at least Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay, and Draconis Mons) weren't copy-pasta of their xpac maps with some sprinkling on top. Meanwhile current LS maps are all desert, same feel same zone, same assets as core PoF. Ofc they are not identical, but the HoT LS maps clearly made further departure from their base material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > Today, I saw someone post in map chat that they would gladly pay 10 bucks for each episode if that would help deliver finished content (re: explorable Gandara as well as its meta). I agree. > > Bless that man. ...or woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. > > Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. Yep, the last episode this team shipped was probably episode 6 which came out at the end of July 2017. So they've had 11 months assuming that they kept working on the LS all the time. Given that, I'm genuinely concerned about how episode 4, 5 and 6 will turn out. I hope they can return to the 2-3 month cadence (closer to 2 months) as the game needs new content at that rate, IMO, but I doubt that they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother.1504 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > @"Brother.1504" said: > > 29.3k ap. And so much content to catch up on. The latest patch launched buggy but MMOs are sometimes like that. I’m happy with the ls4 zones and metas. For the most part I think anet is doing a good job with content cadence. > > How do you have content to catch up on at 29.3k ap? Like what kind of content, exactly? I play this game like non-stop when I'm off work and still only have like 17k ap if that. lol > > I need to borrow some of that so I can finish my Hellfire set. Just mail it to me! I played from beta to just before HoT launched. Took 2 years off. Came back to the game 6 months ago. There is a ton of content, collections, sides stories, living world, exploration, and ap hunting, loads of stuff to do. Not to mention wvw and spvp. I don’t really understand the people that say there is nothing to do. I’m at 29.3k ap with my sights set on 30k for the radiant chest piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > > > > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. > > > > Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. > > Yep, the last episode this team shipped was probably episode 6 which came out at the end of July 2017. So they've had 11 months assuming that they kept working on the LS all the time. > > Given that, I'm genuinely concerned about how episode 4, 5 and 6 will turn out. I hope they can return to the 2-3 month cadence (closer to 2 months) as the game needs new content at that rate, IMO, but I doubt that they can. In AMA they said teams are merged for a year now. There is no more LW3 team seperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you've broken out of the map of Kourna you can see how unfinished Gandara is. When you compare that to other maps with larger areas that are unused and break out of the map, it's like they're fully finished and could easily be playable space. As someone who does this regularly, you can kind of tell just how rushed at least Gandara was. Untextured blotches of space and buildings that don't have collision or even finished architecture and no plan layout. They do this often with things like Divinity's Reach where you know players aren't going to go and you want the silhouette of a city from a certain angle, but this is even less so than many of the other places I've seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it’s not finished because they never intended for you to go there in the first place? Why should they build out spaces that they don’t plan to use? > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is finished from what they planned, but from what I gather with the many issues they ran into as they stated in the ama along with the fact that the content didn't seem up to standards to release earlier thus causing the delay, it seems more like they didn't really have an intended vision for this map. At least not a consistent one. I think it went through many iterations and due to that process a lot of it feels unfinished, such as Gandara and its meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > I must have missed that part about it not being up to standards so I’ll have to check it out. My gathering on the delay was that it had to do with reasons that impacted all further episodes too. It wasn’t just centered on this episode. But only Anet knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it's good to be hostile towards them for this episode, but I do think it's good for as many people as possible who don't like certain aspects of it to address their opinion to persuade them to possibly take a different route the next time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just dislike the use of “rushed” or “unfinished” as that implies there was a different version that was intended and that we all knew about it. Don’t get me wrong, the meta was underwhelming and the rewards similar but then it’s no different than those of PoF maps and I don’t think players were calling them rushed or unfinished. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept wasn't my favorite map either, but it was certainly a better release in my opinion than this one. The art team is pretty much always going to do a fantastic job and I feel like they have some of the best in the business, but a pretty hollow shell is still a hollow shell. > > > > > > > > > > > > The area it was in definitely left for much better artwork. I remember that this area in GW1 really wasn’t all that much to look at. > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that being said, the next episode is released by the team that did Daybreak, and although I wasn't a fan of Lake Doric (I think that's the same team), they always seem to do a very cohesive well-thought out job. Daybreak was spectacular to me. I think the biggest issue for the complaints this time around is just that they had so many issues during development and it's really bled through into what they released. Hopefully a minor setback and I didn't understand what they said in the ama about the changes they made to the development process and the fact that now teams will be communicating with leads better? (Kind of assumed they were doing this along but if they weren't it's amazing we've gotten what we've got!) > > > > > > > > > > > > Did they confirm that this was the same team? Last season they had three teams but you’re saying that they now have two. I very well could have missed that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't speak for everyone, only myself, but I try to always be understanding. Perhaps opinionated and ask for a lot, or overly vocal about things that I personally want or don't like, but reasonable and hopefully thoughtful. But we do have plenty of people that are just extremely toxic towards developers. It is their job and I do have certain expectations because of it, but I don't think anyone needs to bash them for it. The reddit obviously is a lot more lenient with these kinds of comments, but the reddit also seems to be where the devs frequent more often. > > > > > > > > > > > > I tend to be overly opinionated on some topics as well although I have pulled back somewhat on expressing them compared to previous years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Day break was ep1 of se4 and lake doric ep4 of se3. They still have 3 teams for all we know. > > > > > > > > A team typically has six months to develop an episode. Having them develop the first one and then go right into developing the third means that there was always going to be a three month gap between episodes and that the third team which hasn’t released an episode would have had an extraordinary amount of time to develop theirs compared to the other teams. > > > > > > Well, I think that's part of the reason people are scrutinizing this episode so much in particular. It's the third team and the one that has presumably had the longest period of time, along with an extra month from the delay. > > > > Yep, the last episode this team shipped was probably episode 6 which came out at the end of July 2017. So they've had 11 months assuming that they kept working on the LS all the time. > > > > Given that, I'm genuinely concerned about how episode 4, 5 and 6 will turn out. I hope they can return to the 2-3 month cadence (closer to 2 months) as the game needs new content at that rate, IMO, but I doubt that they can. > > In AMA they said teams are merged for a year now. There is no more LW3 team seperation. Oh really? Wasn't it just the raid and fractal teams that were merged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"MarshallLaw.9260" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > Everyone has the right to be wrong :lol:. Indeed you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. I’ve actually spent more time with this episode than with previous ones including most of LS3. > > There are some telltale signs that are pretty hard to explain away and people have been pointing them out in thread after thread since this mess released. I don't think we need a signed confession from ANet to draw the conclusion that this was a rush job. These tell-tale signs as you call them could be no different than trying to attach issues people have to a narrative even though those issues actually have no correlation to the narrative itself. It’s easy to have a narrative and then pick out what seems to “fit” with it. Any release can have bugs and it’s easy enough to say that a release is rushed or unfinished because of those bugs as it could fit and make sense. However, that doesn’t mean that those bugs had anything to do with that. The fact is that we do not know what the intended final product was supposed to be so it’s kind of difficult to call it unfinished. It could have been what we got or something else entirely. We also do not know their timetable other than a rough estimate of what they generally have for development time. Anything from the player side is purely speculation. I get it that there are things that people dislike. I found the meta boring but it’s no different than other PoF metas. Rewards are meh but really not all that different from most other metas. There are sections of the map with little going on but there were sections like that on the PoF maps. Some people assumed that the meta was unfinished because there are three bridges (going under the assumption this meant three lanes) despite the fact that Gandara has always had three bridges as far back as Nightfall. My belief is that players disliked the wait, got hyped up with unreasonably high expectations, got disappointed when the release didn’t meet those expectations, and are now lashing out. The glitch with the second story instance that was unique to the live environment certainly didn’t help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > You're correct in that HoT felt more rushed than PoF. PoF, excluding the connection issues and some bugs, did feel more complete, and polished. But it was also a desert both in terms of the "physical" space it inhabits, but the amount of content, and play-hours it included. I disagree when you say PoF is comparable in content: PoF has one more map than HoT and still they're quite close in terms of total achievements with hot having ~30 more total achievements (but the average achievements per map in PoF is half an achievement more than the number of achievements in Dragon Stand, which is the HoT map with the least achievements). If you look at adventures, PoF has more, but they're all pretty much copy paste. There's 18 adventures in PoF, 10 of which are Griffon races, and the other ones are mostly supply runs. In HoT each adventure is unique, no two adventures feel the same. > Don't even bring gemstore into this equation because it has nothing to do with the normal game quality? Different teams, you know? > Well... I don't know about that... Remember when they had stuff lined up as Raid rewards and it ended up in the gem store, allegedly... > You're confusing replayability with amount of content. PoF has not a single worthwhile meta event, that much is true. Maw comes very close though. The problem is that it is only good the first time. After that there is nothing holding you in the maps. That is far from low effort though. True, replayability doesn't equate to amount of content. It does speak volumes to it's quality though. We can't really say that devs worked less on one or the other expansion, but we can say that PoF **looks** or **feels** low effort compared to HoT. The flatness of the maps makes them look more "basic" than the intricate HoT maps. I mean Tangled depths can't have been easy to make. And the "copy-paste"-like nature of PoF adventures also doesn't speak well in the amount of effort required to produce those. I mean i enjoy Griffon races more than i do a lot of HoT adventures. But some imagination and creating a few different adventures that don't feel like we're doing another "fetch quest" might be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > There are discussions happening about changes we can make, nothing that I can announce yet. Part of the reason why you can’t explore the entire city was because of the time necessary to art out the entire fortress. When (not if) players figure out how to break out of the map, you’ll see that much of it is lightly placed props but not nearly detailed enough for players to run though. The reason Gandara feels "unfinished" is because they didn't have the time to place all the art they wanted. So they created invisible walls all over the place in order to prevent you from seeing how unfinished it looks. But for all we know, the meta of Gandara was always supposed to be like this. and there was no reason to flesh out the rest of the fortress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithis.3564 Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > There are discussions happening about changes we can make, nothing that I can announce yet. Part of the reason why you can’t explore the entire city was because of the time necessary to art out the entire fortress. When (not if) players figure out how to break out of the map, you’ll see that much of it is lightly placed props but not nearly detailed enough for players to run though. > The reason Gandara feels "unfinished" is because they didn't have the time to place all the art they wanted. So they created invisible walls all over the place in order to prevent you from seeing how unfinished it looks. But for all we know, the meta of Gandara was always supposed to be like this. and there was no reason to flesh out the rest of the fortress. I and few other ppl posted before that they **did cut **some parts of the event. The fight with the Asura and Golem took place in Bokoss prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. I’ve actually spent more time with this episode than with previous ones including most of LS3. > > > > There are some telltale signs that are pretty hard to explain away and people have been pointing them out in thread after thread since this mess released. I don't think we need a signed confession from ANet to draw the conclusion that this was a rush job. > > These tell-tale signs as you call them could be no different than trying to attach issues people have to a narrative even though those issues actually have no correlation to the narrative itself. It’s easy to have a narrative and then pick out what seems to “fit” with it. Any release can have bugs and it’s easy enough to say that a release is rushed or unfinished because of those bugs as it could fit and make sense. However, that doesn’t mean that those bugs had anything to do with that. > > The fact is that we do not know what the intended final product was supposed to be so it’s kind of difficult to call it unfinished. It could have been what we got or something else entirely. We also do not know their timetable other than a rough estimate of what they generally have for development time. Anything from the player side is purely speculation. > > I get it that there are things that people dislike. I found the meta boring but it’s no different than other PoF metas. Rewards are meh but really not all that different from most other metas. There are sections of the map with little going on but there were sections like that on the PoF maps. Some people assumed that the meta was unfinished because there are three bridges (going under the assumption this meant three lanes) despite the fact that Gandara has always had three bridges as far back as Nightfall. > > My belief is that players disliked the wait, got hyped up with unreasonably high expectations, got disappointed when the release didn’t meet those expectations, and are now lashing out. The glitch with the second story instance that was unique to the live environment certainly didn’t help either. Believe what you want to believe and others will do the same. In my opinion, this release was not up to standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altosk.8492 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > Today, I saw someone post in map chat that they would gladly pay 10 bucks for each episode if that would help deliver finished content (re: explorable Gandara as well as its meta). I agree. Money isn't the issue here because they get PLENTY of it from gem store sales. It's middle management according to the latest glassdoor review. They're apparently waiting to get involved and make sweeping changes last minute after months of planning/work have been put into the content, leaving it rushed and unfinished. Throwing more money at them won't change this and if that's the way it's going to go I'd rather them just add a optional sub to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 What they really need to emphasize is testing: both the traditional QA and playtesting. Of course, easier said than done, but a lot of problems they have had lately could have been discovered before release. Of course, you can not discover every combination that all the various players will do all at once but the obvious stuff should be found. What testing they are doing is probably with clean accounts too. For example, take the portal scolls not going into tomes. It looks people are finding it works if they do not have both of the previous ones. What that says to me is someone tested it with a brand new tome and put a checkmark that it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 The one thing they could do is to add and item or even AMG itself to metas in PoF, simple. Instead they chose to make that desert gift into something that will cost you 2 times more. I understand the marketing point of it but imo it was wrong decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > How can something be call unfinished when we don’t know what the episode was intended to be? For all that we know, this was exactly it. > > > > > > > > This episode feels no different than those of LS3 or even the PoF maps. I’ve actually spent more time with this episode than with previous ones including most of LS3. > > > > > > There are some telltale signs that are pretty hard to explain away and people have been pointing them out in thread after thread since this mess released. I don't think we need a signed confession from ANet to draw the conclusion that this was a rush job. > > > > These tell-tale signs as you call them could be no different than trying to attach issues people have to a narrative even though those issues actually have no correlation to the narrative itself. It’s easy to have a narrative and then pick out what seems to “fit” with it. Any release can have bugs and it’s easy enough to say that a release is rushed or unfinished because of those bugs as it could fit and make sense. However, that doesn’t mean that those bugs had anything to do with that. > > > > The fact is that we do not know what the intended final product was supposed to be so it’s kind of difficult to call it unfinished. It could have been what we got or something else entirely. We also do not know their timetable other than a rough estimate of what they generally have for development time. Anything from the player side is purely speculation. > > > > I get it that there are things that people dislike. I found the meta boring but it’s no different than other PoF metas. Rewards are meh but really not all that different from most other metas. There are sections of the map with little going on but there were sections like that on the PoF maps. Some people assumed that the meta was unfinished because there are three bridges (going under the assumption this meant three lanes) despite the fact that Gandara has always had three bridges as far back as Nightfall. > > > > My belief is that players disliked the wait, got hyped up with unreasonably high expectations, got disappointed when the release didn’t meet those expectations, and are now lashing out. The glitch with the second story instance that was unique to the live environment certainly didn’t help either. > > Believe what you want to believe and others will do the same. In my opinion, this release was not up to (my) standard. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Altosk.8492" said: > It's middle management according to the latest glassdoor review. This is the biggest Achilles Heel of Western Game development and I really wish we could break away from the "Good luck getting a good game. I'm behind 7 layers of bean counters and department sub managers" frame we're stuck in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > > Today, I saw someone post in map chat that they would gladly pay 10 bucks for each episode if that would help deliver finished content (re: explorable Gandara as well as its meta). I agree. > > > > Bless that man. > > ...or woman. Or helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Blocki.4931" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > > > > > > > > > Starting with PoF, Anet has generally been pretty low effort, with resources pushed over to the cash shop. Mounts were awesome, but the maps and things to do in the maps are pretty lackluster compared to prior releases However, with mounts I feel as though their meetings are just about what new skin to push out to the shop while content isn't even getting a half-baked effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse you? PoF was loaded with content. A ton of achievements and map to explore, many events to complete and things to discover. Can't say there is a single thing in base PoF that felt rushed or unfinished, with just as much if not more detail and content in the maps themselves than anything previously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excuse yourself out, HoT was superior content wise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And yet others consider HoT to be not only inferior, but bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know how people could ever gather that. I think a lot of hate for Heart of Thorns was the legendary fiasco and some of the issues with metas being far more than people were expecting. It followed a content drought, had a bit of a content drought after it was released if I remember correctly, and didn't release everything up front that the box content suggested. But in terms of replay value they have the most in the game and will probably continue to amaze new people as long as they exist. The dragon stand meta is pretty amazing to most of the new people I've listened to. > > > > > > > > > > > > But yeah, some people are also just salty over the complexity of the maps, even without the metas. So much Tangled Depths hate when it's probably one of the most amazing game maps I've ever seen with its intricacy. I can't even begin to imagine what it was like designing that map or the work that was put into making it a functional playable space like it is. All of the heart of thorns maps were truly amazing. Outside of perhaps Dragon Stand which didn't have AS much going for it outside of the meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Path of Fire maps are beautiful too though, just don't have as much going on outside of initial play through and bounty trains. > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true. The legendary fiasco, as you put it, affected a tiny percentage of the playerbase. The biggest complaints about HOT were always the increase in difficulty over core, the complexity of the maps, which a lot of people didn't like, the "grindiness" of the masteries, and the fact that everything was on a timer. Well that and the new WvW map, which was definitely disliked. The number of complaints about the legendaries was quite small compared to the people complaining about these things and the nine month content draught for casual players after HoT launched. > > > > > > > > > > HoT is my favorite of the two expansions, but PoF was made for a different type of player, a more casual player more geared toward exploring and playing solo, without timers, and in that, PoF was a successful expansion. It wasn't as successful for hardcore players, or farmers, but they don't represent, in my opinion, 50% of the player base. > > > > > > > > I mean if we go by that idea then every expansions will be succesful to some. There were ppl complaining days after pof that theres no incentive to do content that this expansions doesnt feel like 1 suited for an mmo. > > > > > > > > Pof at least had lw start fast right after the expansion launch. If Hot had the same treatment it would still be the superior expansion. > > > > > > > > If we go by numbers of ppl complaining it looks to me that the same amount of ppl are mad now that were mad back then, diff is hot is still being played while pof is basically abandoned. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditionally the legendaries were a huge part of the complains back then, they were the flagship of the selling points and not having them on release sparked alot of complains. Even without all of them i can look back at hot and say i had more stuff to work towards. > > > > > > > > Leaving content to the side pof for me failed because it took what hot nailed and threw it out of the window. Namely the sense of an actually mmo. > > > > > > HOT had far more complaints than POF. Far more. NO comparison. Not even close. PoF was developed as a specific response to the complaints about HoT. That much is obvious. Lots of people who left the game over HoT returned when POF launched. It's arguably the more successful expansion of the two. > > > > And as much if not more left the game since pof. As you said tho hot had more reasons for ppl to complain, basically a 9 month drought and not all the selling points being there. > > > > You would get the same ppl saying [this hot meta] is not done, or this [incert content here] is imposibly and the first responce would prove them wrong. > > > > If someone complains about replayability in the pof maps prob nobody will argue with that. But they dont because they either left the game, went back to hot, or left and just come back every lw. > > I seriously doubt you could back up your comment about more people left over PoF than HOT, considering less people complained. It makes no sense. Hard core players may have left. They still represent a minority of the playerbase...in my opinion anyway. > > More on topic, I don't believe this chapter was unfinished. I think it was meant to be casual. Same has PoF. People can't seem to tell the difference between content aimed at other audiences, and an unfinished product. Fool me once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemnaid.4219 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Legend has it, they’re still trying to finish HoT legendaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraith.7243 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 @"FlyingK.9720" said: > But I would argue that it's comparatively low effort. Achievements are collect / repeat event, quests are fetch / escort, bounties are just a big mob with some random effects. The content took a back seat to the mounts in the recent expansion and the LS4 maps have been equally disappointing to me compared to their LS3 counterparts. That argument is pretty subjective. You could honestly make the same point about HoT having content locked behind gating and repetitive grinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingK.9720 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"wraith.7243" said: > @"FlyingK.9720" said: > > But I would argue that it's comparatively low effort. Achievements are collect / repeat event, quests are fetch / escort, bounties are just a big mob with some random effects. The content took a back seat to the mounts in the recent expansion and the LS4 maps have been equally disappointing to me compared to their LS3 counterparts. > > > That argument is pretty subjective. You could honestly make the same point about HoT having content locked behind gating and repetitive grinding. > > Yes: yes it is and yes I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedek.8932 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I think I've read somewhere that Arcane Studios - or whoever made DISHONORED 2 - was spending so much money into the game that it could not get enough revenue in return. A financial flop. Dishonored 2 is a beautiful, great game and probably one of my life's best games. But it was expensive as heck. Studios die and did die because gamers nowadays are so greedy and cheapskates. In our local store, there are the cheap 1.09€ bananas the kilogram. They are, of course, sold out quickly due to high demand. But nobody buys the 1.79€ bananas of higher quality. The customers expectations to quality and their will to spend accordingly is totally out of relation. In another thread of today, the "Would you by a 3rd expansion", I had an encounter with exactly this mindset. "I buy it when in sale". It's that stance that is the reason why companies lower their efforts. It's a death spiral and should be obvious to everyone. PoF was 30€. That is, for me right now, before my wage raises in October, 2.7 hours of work after taxes. I start at 6:00 AM and at 8:70 AM, I could have already afforded the game already that gives me months of fun. aNet is huge. They have to pay for staff, for power, for computers. When someone uses the soap dispenser in the staff restrooms, this has to be paid. And then people do not want to shell out €30 or want it for €15 and still complain about not having a scenery that takes so incredibly long to make? The assets have to be made, it has to be placed. Everyone who tried out a map editor knows how long it takes to get one single map done and looking decently. But that is only lo-fi, easy peasy content-making. Imagine you start from scratch. You have writers that are sitting in front of an empty piece of paper, or the designer just know the vague direction. The sound guys need to start doing their jobs. The composers, too. Then we have - at least in German - an outstanding voice-over. (I still love that the male Asura is voiced by the same guy that voiced the German Samwise Gamgee. Hearing Hobbits talk while playing an Asura is kinda funky!) All that is time and money. And yet so many people would not buy anything with a pricetag over €10. We get a lot and a high quality game. When Deadeye has been ~~screwed~~ changed I quitted for 2 months. Went back to my Lalafell Blackmage, saw what FF14 suffers from (check the forums if you wish, it's all over the place) and I still saw how slow and sluggish Neowizz is with their already-done content. My Mascu ranger is now on stand-by due to that. I wish the players of today would finally start appreciating video games again. As art. As culture. Not something to consume while playing Netflix movies or reading Dulfy guides all over. Maybe then your content also lasts longer. Excelsior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenedge.9675 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 > @"miraude.2107" said: > ... Nothing like failing Silverwastes meta over and over again simply because there isn't enough people to garner interest in it and low rewards. I'd prefer a short meta I can still complete further down the line than a meta that's abandoned because of length, not enough people or other issues. Funny you can say that. Silverwastes meta is just as reliable and profitable as Istan. It is highly regarded as a great money maker, currently estimated at 20g/hr. Plus, free to play and core game gw2 players can take advantage of it. But, you have to use the LFG to get an active map. (which is almost 80% of the day) In addition, the post VineWrath (metaboss) state of the map gives you the BEST free magic find boost in the game at +200%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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