opinion on pin snipe?

[Rashagar.8349]

My opinion is that the most fun I've ever had in wvw has always been during periods of large scale disorganised combat on both sides. In saying that though, pin sniping to force disorganisation is still more effort than I'd bother going to. As for if it's sportsmanlike or not, I'd consider it about as unsporting as stacking is in the first place hehe.

[XenesisII.1540]

Y'all want to keep rangers and engineers out of zerg groups, what else do you expect them to do when they fight a zerg? They're going to hit the important parts of your zerg, your commander and squishies. There's a ton of ways to deal with pin sniping, a lot of which commanders don't even bother with. Focus targeting also happens everywhere in pvp all the time in any groups, not just on commanders in zergs, is that unsportsmanlike?

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Aerinndis.2730" said:

> > @"Zephyra.4709" said:

> > > but if an enemy group does it to you, do you do the same?

> >

> > What goes around comes around I guess... nothing more satisfying seeing a guild crumble scattering like roaches because their driver got sniped. Boo hoo. Good guilds have backup commanders; keep it together.

>

> "We need to find the leader. Mangalores don't fight without their leaders......"

 

Fifth Element \o/

Took me a moment

[Shagaliscious.6281]

Well, define sniping. I mean, we usually mark the other driver, and focus our bomb on him, but if you mean like having 1 person, usually a soulbeast nowadays, then that is a cheesy tactic, and if that happens to us, our chrono will slot Moa, and we will corrupt, pull, then moa the driver.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> Well, define sniping. I mean, we usually mark the other driver, and focus our bomb on him, but if you mean like having 1 person, usually a soulbeast nowadays, then that is a cheesy tactic, and if that happens to us, our chrono will slot Moa, and we will corrupt, pull, then moa the driver.

 

mmm like it sounds. killing the com first. preferably thru a distance or pulling the com from the team to kill him quick.

 

i understand the com focus, since if he is pressured, he may cave fast. we normally dont do it though, revs, eles first now a days. hehe

 

to extend the discussion, what you guys think of com focus?

[Celsith.2753]

Pin sniping when you're already winning the fights is dumb, imo. It's just going to make the enemy quit, I guess that's good if you want to hit doors and not people?

As a tool when you're struggling or losing, sure why not xD

[DeadlySynz.3471]

It's fine, but for me personally I only do it if the group is too blobby, or running too many meta classes at once (too many FB and scourges as an example). So if that's the case, pin snipe until the commander logs or his/her group breaks up.

[Threather.9354]

Pin sniping in blob fights is just wasting damage. Smart commander would just re-arrange his party with like 2 fb, 1 melee ele, 2 rev or something and after that he just cant die. The commander is already on full minstrel sustain build so obviously hitting him out of all the players is not the best strat. The moment you start focusing on the commander, the ranged should punish by casting damage from left and right. As soon as the ranged win both left and right sides, the fight is over. Thats why any caster in the game should be focusing on cornering the enemy and limiting their movement rather than 1 shotting the enemy tag.

 

I try to teach players following me to think for themselves, not mindlessly stand on my tag wasting cooldowns and dying from all the damage without retaliating.

 

Not to mention that its a bad strat, so I would never ask my players to do it. Rather I am glad if the enemy wastes damage on me.

[Widmo.3186]

In most situations it's simple,enemies are worse than you,losing fights and they start using commi sniping (usually with moas).Imo it's just pathetic,probably same level as throwing ACs and other sieges in the open field.Unfortunately some zergs works like that and even encourage people to do that.A good sniping party can almost instantly down enemy commander,but it works as double-edged sword,other server will do the same.

_^This goes to fights where both blobs have comparable amounts of people in squad,outnumbered fights are different story._

If you want to do it personally,go ahead,but I think most communities won't approve it.

[ArchonWing.9480]

It's pretty lame, however I'd estimate about more than half the time, the commander isn't actually being sniped but rather they flew a few hundred feet ahead of everyone else and getting instantly melted so there's that excuse. It's better than flaming their own teammates though!

[Subversion.2580]

Sniping tends to go one of two ways:

Either it's a small group of players acting on their own or it is actively used by a commander.

* Most commanders are there to lead players and create content so a small group acting alone is more common

* Most commanders also frown upon them and will not act to support them

* Most such small groups are also lazy and bad players

* You deal with them by sending good havoc on them - some focus tend to make them quit

* If it's a commander actively using snipers he tends to be a lazy and bad commander - an easy tell is if his squad tries to counter your havoc

* You deal with that by focusing him until he tags down - everyone is better off with that anyway

 

Then there are all the more active commanding tricks others have already mentioned - from stealthing the commander to portal plays. Just because reflects are not as surefire with PoF (though Anet tuning down unblockables wouldn't be a bad thing) there are still ways to go about things with some creativity. The downside is that it requires you to have some good players but as noted above good groups and players rarely opt for cheese so you are more likely than not to either have no sniping or an advantage to deal with it. Other scenarios are exceedingly rare.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Subversion.2580" said:

> Sniping tends to go one of two ways:

> Either it's a small group of players acting on their own or it is actively used by a commander.

> * Most commanders are there to lead players and create content so a small group acting alone is more common

> * Most commanders also frown upon them and will not act to support them

> * Most such small groups are also lazy and bad players

> * You deal with them by sending good havoc on them - some focus tend to make them quit

> * If it's a commander actively using snipers he tends to be a lazy and bad commander - an easy tell is if his squad tries to counter your havoc

> * You deal with that by focusing him until he tags down - everyone is better off with that anyway

 

 

yeah i figured in gw2 one is a bad player everytime one does something the opponent doesnt like.

[Subversion.2580]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> yeah i figured in gw2 one is a bad player everytime one does something the opponent doesnt like.

Not at all, I think you're missing my point because I struck a nerve.

 

What I meant was that if you're on a decent enough server or with a decent enough commander (who thus generally avoids sniping because they know it tends to have futher reaching negative effects on the game mode) then you are likely to have players around you with high level roaming experience or focus-party experience while the group that pin snipes rarely do. Friendlies will simply be more apt at focusing the snipers than the snipers are at focusing a friendly commander - especially as long as the opposing commander does nothing to save the snipers. Players with alot of small scale experience generally does not pin snipe because they also have experience of what it results in if it persists and more importantly: they have better things to do than cheese.

 

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Pin sniping is unsportsmanlike and really, really stupid.

 

All it does it make the com tag down or switch border.

 

People complain all the time about the lack of fight and the lack of coms. No shit Sherlock! I wouldn't tag up either, if some freak is sniping me all the time. Pin sniping helps destroying the game. Well done! You should play pvp instead. Or just do the festivals.

 

Luckily on EU there aren't many servers hosting these .... beings. The last time we had to deal with them it was a two pronged approach:

 

realiation: snipe the com of the group responsible

h/k: some of us had the honor to hunt down and kill the despicable sniper every time he showed his ugly face.

 

Stopped sniping pretty quickly.

[Crazy.6029]

Pin snipe is not a big deal either way, but you wont get as many bags/kills if you do it. It doesn't seem to be as popular as it used to be. However, if your group is outnumbered, unorganized and just being bag farmed, then I would endorse pin sniping just for fun :)

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Subversion.2580" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > yeah i figured in gw2 one is a bad player everytime one does something the opponent doesnt like.

> Not at all, I think you're missing my point because I struck a nerve.

>

> What I meant was that if you're on a decent enough server or with a decent enough commander (who thus generally avoids sniping because they know it tends to have futher reaching negative effects on the game mode) then you are likely to have players around you with high level roaming experience or focus-party experience while the group that pin snipes rarely do. Friendlies will simply be more apt at focusing the snipers than the snipers are at focusing a friendly commander - especially as long as the opposing commander does nothing to save the snipers. **Players with alot of small scale experience generally does not pin snipe because they also have experience of what it results in** if it persists and more importantly: they have better things to do than cheese.

>

>

usually if done subtle, it will just result in the opponents losing the fight, wich drops their moral a bit while your server wins the fight wich raises the moral. most servers will lose some numbers on losing and gain them on winning. people will fight better in expectation of a win than in expectation of a loss, i have several times experienced that subtle sniping enemy commander without anyone realizing it, will lead to winning most fights afterwards. you have to fully pull them out corrupt, spike, instant stomp them. its often enough to get a really big single target CC on them. for example binding shadows : boon rip , 3s knockdown, 2s immob, 15 vuln and poison. do that in the right moment will make the commander drop.

 

[Ceistebi.4023]

Fair, available tactic, especially if you are outnumbered and do it as a last resort to busting the zerg. However, I'm not personally a fan of it because I like fights that are a bit more honorable.

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

It's lame if it's the only way you can win fights, by corrupting and pulling the commander into spb bubbles and necro wells/marks. While it also makes the fight commanders give up, so you'll have nothing to fight or a group that isn't going to give you a good fight anymore. You'll get loot, but less satisfaction from a less challenging fight.

 

That's unless they have a good support comp, which some servers don't have the luxury of having.

That's what happened on Thursday, even to who was tagged up that night: [https://twitch.tv/videos/295748359](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/295748359 "https://twitch.tv/videos/295748359")

[XenesisII.1540]

Obvious solution here is everyone get off the garbage classes, roll a firebrand or scourge or spellbreaker and zerg it up with everyone else, so that the commander can tonic up and freely dance in front of their blob.

 

I also think pulling and ccing into damage bombs is very unsportsmanlike conduct unbecoming of a gentlemen and commander.

Please refrain from pulling players into aoe bombs, especially on walls, thank you. Cast it in an open area and if they choose to freely walk into it then that of course is acceptable.

 

 

[kash.9213]

In the higher tiers pins were easier to kill but thier squads were faster with revenge pulls. Mid tier pins were more sustaining but I would be more likely to bounce out in time. Either way it's kind of a waste since at this point in the game most squads recover pretty quickly.

 

I usually feel out a fight a little and scope out someone in the heal train that should leave a gap of they die or at least make them peel around back for a minute or I'll watch how they move and try to play some interception on their go-getters. All's fair I guess but it's kind of dumb if not capitalized on.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> it's juvenile and shows lack of skill or confidence.

 

 

 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

The only time I would pin snipe if it's in Lord room.

[zinkz.7045]

Pin sniping isn't any more low skill, "cheesy", etc than anything else in WvW, the fact that it can be so effective is only possible due to WvW being relatively low skilled in the first place, that decision making that is fundamental to most PvP games like positioning, when to push, when to go defensive, etc is largely offloaded from everyone else to one guy.

 

So what you basically get is a rather low skilled, mindless, casual form of PvP that has a very obvious counter (kill the one guy actually really PvPing), so as a game mode that attracts players who despite the pretensions of some are actually fine with relatively low skilled, mindless PvP, just as long as people play their preferred variety of "cheese".

 

[Victory.2879]

Nothing wrong with it, absolutely fine. It's a tactic like everything else. Adapt and survive. My personal favourite at the moment is throwing down sup ballista to counter guild groups that outnumber us when we're just a pug grouping, then listening to them cry or shouting 'noob!' because they just looking for the 'fights' (as a large guild group against an outmanned enemy.....).

 

wvw has much bigger issues than pin sniping - the damage on some skills really needs toning down, no skill should hit over 5k and then all defensive skills would need adjusting too. It's stupid that one skill from stealth on a heavily armored opponent can hit for almost 13k then teh stealth player can pop off away into the distance at superspeed if they fail to take you down. Or how about instantly spamming stacks of condis in a circle that follows you around?

 

It's amazing how much qq you get from these so-called 'elite' or 'skilled' players as soon as anyone uses any sort of tactic against them other than 'mash into each other'.

[Etheri.5406]

It's another method for a side that can't win to avoid fighting. Rather than fighting and possibly losing, they kill the comm which usually just stalemates the fight or further avoids it until a regroup. Rarely do they get huge amounts of bags or even much profit.

At it's most succesful, all it does is avoid you fights you could have had. Because you'd rather not have action or kill clowns than lose.

It's most popular among players who can't adapt their movement.

 

That is if it's done zerg-wide. When done by a small amount of irrelevant players, it's usually neither effective nor helpful to creating content for either side. Just bad players trying to be relevant or win by any means necessary without being capable to hardcarry fights.

 

If you're too blind to call your own movement and bombs, just mark the enemy commander then pirateship and yell bomb every time the marker gets within range.

 

Just like spamming ACs and bunkering, players who tend to default to it whenever they lose quickly stop improving (which is best done from fights where you struggle, lose or did stuff wrong). They'll pretend it's a great tactic they only need because X also does Y; but eventually it's just a common reality required every time two wipes happen.