Why does Elusive Mind still exists?

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > >Can the devs please explain why Elusive mind still exists?

> > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

>

> The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> yeah!

 

And explained again!

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > >Can the devs please explain why Elusive mind still exists?

> > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> >

> > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > yeah!

>

> And explained again!

 

Give me a zero CD stunbreak on dodge limited only by endurance that also allows me to do my dps rotation during the dodge and i'll gladly give up EVERY SINGLE ONE of my other passives.

 

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > >Can the devs please explain why Elusive mind still exists?

> > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > >

> > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > yeah!

> >

> > And explained again!

>

> Give me a zero CD stunbreak on dodge limited only by endurance that also allows me to do my dps rotation during the dodge and i'll gladly give up EVERY SINGLE ONE of my other passives.

>

 

EM does not have a ZERO COOLDOWD. Just FYI. You need to look it up before posting faulty information about it. what do you think à 3second -100% exhaustion is use for? Is it Just for the hek of it or what?

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > >Can the devs please explain why Elusive mind still exists?

> > > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > >

> > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > > yeah!

> > >

> > > And explained again!

> >

> > Give me a zero CD stunbreak on dodge limited only by endurance that also allows me to do my dps rotation during the dodge and i'll gladly give up EVERY SINGLE ONE of my other passives.

> >

>

> EM does not have a ZERO COOLDOWD. Just FYI. You need to look it up before posting faulty information about it. what do you think à 3second -100% exhaustion is use for? Is it Just for the hek of it or what?

 

Did you even read my comment before posting a faulty reply? I wrote "limited only by endurance"

i'll leave it here. thx

[Hot Boy.7138]

What's really overpowered is not being able to be CCed at all, which is what fighting an engineer feels like since they have near 100% uptime on stability. If you could choose between never being CCed or being able to break CC every 3 seconds, which would you choose?

 

 

[Sazukikrah.5036]

@"Master Ketsu.4569" I believe they should explain the changes they make for every balance patch, but it wont likely happen. I just want to know why they change certain things. Not like im demanding that they do it, but as to why? and who idea was it to do something like that?

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > >Can the devs please explain why Elusive mind still exists?

> > > > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > > >

> > > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > > > yeah!

> > > >

> > > > And explained again!

> > >

> > > Give me a zero CD stunbreak on dodge limited only by endurance that also allows me to do my dps rotation during the dodge and i'll gladly give up EVERY SINGLE ONE of my other passives.

> > >

> >

> > EM does not have a ZERO COOLDOWD. Just FYI. You need to look it up before posting faulty information about it. what do you think à 3second -100% exhaustion is use for? Is it Just for the hek of it or what?

>

> Did you even read my comment before posting a faulty reply? I wrote "limited only by endurance"

> i'll leave it here. thx

 

Yes, i read it. & Seem obvious you dint understand it. If you don't understand that Every time we stunbreak from EM by (dodging) there's a 3sec cooldown before we can stunbreak again. & it's not counting the -100% exhaustion that goes with it. So my point is, **where's the ZERO COOLDOWN? **

Plz point it out for us

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > > > >Can the devs please explain why Elusive mind still exists?

> > > > > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The same reasons passive aegis/stability/easy breakstunt utilitary/evade/other defense mecanic powercreeped by extension still exist on other specs.

> > > > > > yeah!

> > > > >

> > > > > And explained again!

> > > >

> > > > Give me a zero CD stunbreak on dodge limited only by endurance that also allows me to do my dps rotation during the dodge and i'll gladly give up EVERY SINGLE ONE of my other passives.

> > > >

> > >

> > > EM does not have a ZERO COOLDOWD. Just FYI. You need to look it up before posting faulty information about it. what do you think à 3second -100% exhaustion is use for? Is it Just for the hek of it or what?

> >

> > Did you even read my comment before posting a faulty reply? I wrote "limited only by endurance"

> > i'll leave it here. thx

>

> Yes, i read it. & Seem obvious you dint understand it. If you don't understand that Every time we stunbreak from EM by (dodging) there's a 3sec cooldown before we can stunbreak again. & it's not counting the -100% exhaustion that goes with it. So my point is, **where's the ZERO COOLDOWN? **

> Plz point it out for us

 

You get 3 seconds of exhaustion when stunbreaking with Elusive Mind. There's no icd on the actual stunbreak.

 

The effect is limited by your endurance but it does NOT have a cooldown.

[Rufo.3716]

I think some people need to play mesmer before they actually complain about it. Maybe then they will realize how things actually work.

[DragonSlayer.1087]

I never use this trait, idk I just prefer Infinite Horizon because I prefer I more "confusing" play-style.

[Simonoly.4352]

> @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> I never use this trait, idk I just prefer Infinite Horizon because I prefer I more "confusing" play-style.

 

Yes I've not used EM on my Mirage for a very long time now - feels a bit superfluous if you've got a couple of stunbreaks and you know what you're doing.

 

Not only is Infinite Horizon a more interesting play-style as you rightly insinuate, but you also increase your condition output for staff, sceptre, axe and greatsword (more vulnerability) whilst also giving yourself more dazes with sword. It's a really amazing trait.

[mortrialus.3062]

Condi Mirage shouldn't have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Condi Mirage should have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

 

Trouble there is mirage could then be virtually immune to condi itself - between this, jaunt, cleansing sigils and prestige at the minimum, nevermind if a player decides to take mantra cleanse as well. A mirror match would be pretty funny as barely any condi would stick.

 

Would rather a more intricate solution such as an IA style detarget/shuffle with clones in a radius around the player's location when cced, but still remain cced until it wears off. Or the old suggestion of converting all cc into a self daze, allowing movement but no counter attack.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > Condi Mirage should have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

>

> Trouble there is mirage could then be virtually immune to condi itself - between this, jaunt, cleansing sigils and prestige at the minimum, nevermind if a player decides to take mantra cleanse as well. A mirror match would be pretty funny as barely any condi would stick.

>

> Would rather a more intricate solution such as an IA style detarget/shuffle with clones in a radius around the player's location when cced, but still remain cced until it wears off. Or the old suggestion of converting all cc into a self daze, allowing movement but no counter attack.

 

Shouldn't. I meant to type shouldN'T and forgot the n't. No stunbreak on dodge, turn Elusive Mind into two condition cleanses.

 

Pretty much every meta build in the game has either absurd levels of condition cleanses or resistance or Invulnerability beyond what Elusive Mind changed to cleanse two conditions would be.

[jportell.2197]

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> What's really overpowered is not being able to be CCed at all, which is what fighting an engineer feels like since they have near 100% uptime on stability. If you could choose between never being CCed or being able to break CC every 3 seconds, which would you choose?

>

>

 

THIS why is noone talking about this. Everyone is ticked that a mesmer can dodge while stunned, but Holosmith has near perma stability, coupled with THE BEST CC chain in the game. How is something that causes massive exhaustion a problem, but not perma stab on the best CC class in the game.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> > What's really overpowered is not being able to be CCed at all, which is what fighting an engineer feels like since they have near 100% uptime on stability. If you could choose between never being CCed or being able to break CC every 3 seconds, which would you choose?

> >

> >

>

> THIS why is noone talking about this. Everyone is ticked that a mesmer can dodge while stunned, but Holosmith has near perma stability, coupled with THE BEST CC chain in the game. How is something that causes massive exhaustion a problem, but not perma stab on the best CC class in the game.

 

daredevils don't care about your "massive exhaustion"

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> I believe it is only fair to ask the balance team to at least provide a basic explanation as to why a trait that has been proven in multiple way to be a game-breaking mechanic is still in the game.

>

>

 

Because it was an intended main class feature for the favorite child? I mean... it's the only plausible explanation at this point ^^

 

 

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

I dunno why you people are still crying at EM when it should mirage cloak that you should be complaining about.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

It exists because it is a good trait. Who doesn't want to lose conditions on dodge.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > Condi Mirage should have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

> >

> > Trouble there is mirage could then be virtually immune to condi itself - between this, jaunt, cleansing sigils and prestige at the minimum, nevermind if a player decides to take mantra cleanse as well. A mirror match would be pretty funny as barely any condi would stick.

> >

> > Would rather a more intricate solution such as an IA style detarget/shuffle with clones in a radius around the player's location when cced, but still remain cced until it wears off. Or the old suggestion of converting all cc into a self daze, allowing movement but no counter attack.

>

> Shouldn't. I meant to type shouldN'T and forgot the n't. No stunbreak on dodge, turn Elusive Mind into two condition cleanses.

>

> Pretty much every meta build in the game has either absurd levels of condition cleanses or resistance or Invulnerability beyond what Elusive Mind changed to cleanse two conditions would be.

 

I got what you meant, it's ok.

 

Was just saying that already one can facetank a decent amount of condi on mirage with EM anyway and regularly/frequently cleanse through dodges etc, so with two cleanses per dodge I believe it would be excessive. Just because some other class builds are already able to facetank a lot of condi doesn't mean that kind of play should be encouraged further - sure condi application is high but if the solution to that is making another build effectively immune to it, especially mirage of all things, I don't think that's healthy for the game either.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > Condi Mirage should have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

> > >

> > > Trouble there is mirage could then be virtually immune to condi itself - between this, jaunt, cleansing sigils and prestige at the minimum, nevermind if a player decides to take mantra cleanse as well. A mirror match would be pretty funny as barely any condi would stick.

> > >

> > > Would rather a more intricate solution such as an IA style detarget/shuffle with clones in a radius around the player's location when cced, but still remain cced until it wears off. Or the old suggestion of converting all cc into a self daze, allowing movement but no counter attack.

> >

> > Shouldn't. I meant to type shouldN'T and forgot the n't. No stunbreak on dodge, turn Elusive Mind into two condition cleanses.

> >

> > Pretty much every meta build in the game has either absurd levels of condition cleanses or resistance or Invulnerability beyond what Elusive Mind changed to cleanse two conditions would be.

>

> I got what you meant, it's ok.

>

> Was just saying that already one can facetank a decent amount of condi on mirage with EM anyway and regularly/frequently cleanse through dodges etc, so with two cleanses per dodge I believe it would be excessive. **Just because some other class builds are already able to facetank a lot of condi** doesn't mean that kind of play should be encouraged further - sure condi application is high but if the solution to that is making another build effectively immune to it, especially mirage of all things, I don't think that's healthy for the game either.

 

It's not "Some other class builds." This entire meta is dominated by power builds that don't give a crap about incoming conditions. I'm not really interested in your pearl clutching about Mirage potentially having too much condition cleanse considering everything else that's going on in the game.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > Condi Mirage should have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

> > > >

> > > > Trouble there is mirage could then be virtually immune to condi itself - between this, jaunt, cleansing sigils and prestige at the minimum, nevermind if a player decides to take mantra cleanse as well. A mirror match would be pretty funny as barely any condi would stick.

> > > >

> > > > Would rather a more intricate solution such as an IA style detarget/shuffle with clones in a radius around the player's location when cced, but still remain cced until it wears off. Or the old suggestion of converting all cc into a self daze, allowing movement but no counter attack.

> > >

> > > Shouldn't. I meant to type shouldN'T and forgot the n't. No stunbreak on dodge, turn Elusive Mind into two condition cleanses.

> > >

> > > Pretty much every meta build in the game has either absurd levels of condition cleanses or resistance or Invulnerability beyond what Elusive Mind changed to cleanse two conditions would be.

> >

> > I got what you meant, it's ok.

> >

> > Was just saying that already one can facetank a decent amount of condi on mirage with EM anyway and regularly/frequently cleanse through dodges etc, so with two cleanses per dodge I believe it would be excessive. **Just because some other class builds are already able to facetank a lot of condi** doesn't mean that kind of play should be encouraged further - sure condi application is high but if the solution to that is making another build effectively immune to it, especially mirage of all things, I don't think that's healthy for the game either.

>

> It's not "Some other class builds." This entire meta is dominated by power builds that don't give a crap about incoming conditions. I'm not really interested in your pearl clutching about Mirage potentially having too much condition cleanse considering everything else that's going on in the game.

 

Why should mirage join that club in terms of being able to ignore most conditions entirely, instead of pushing for everything else to be reigned back in (both application and resistance to condi) or just having a different solution for EM that could be a) more thematically interesting and b) not powercreeping it in a different way? A simple 2 condi cleanse and "boom" it's solved is a short term band aid - which I suppose is fine/acceptable given the usual slow and minimal nature of balance in general though if anything I consider it a buff - won't be complaining about that, so in that case yeah sure.

[phokus.8934]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> I dunno why you people are still crying at EM when it should mirage cloak that you should be complaining about.

 

Because no one knows the difference in anything in this game anymore. Hell people still think Mesmers have permanent stealth, conditions, power damage, portal, Moa, jaunt, mirage cloak, continuum split, and every other aspect of Mesmers elites rolled into one.

 

This is why these conversations on this forum are pointless because people post based on not actual facts but on their crappy anecdotal stories and feelings.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > Condi Mirage should have sunbreak on dodge, and Elusive Mind should just get changed to two condition cleanses per dodge. Boom.

> > > > >

> > > > > Trouble there is mirage could then be virtually immune to condi itself - between this, jaunt, cleansing sigils and prestige at the minimum, nevermind if a player decides to take mantra cleanse as well. A mirror match would be pretty funny as barely any condi would stick.

> > > > >

> > > > > Would rather a more intricate solution such as an IA style detarget/shuffle with clones in a radius around the player's location when cced, but still remain cced until it wears off. Or the old suggestion of converting all cc into a self daze, allowing movement but no counter attack.

> > > >

> > > > Shouldn't. I meant to type shouldN'T and forgot the n't. No stunbreak on dodge, turn Elusive Mind into two condition cleanses.

> > > >

> > > > Pretty much every meta build in the game has either absurd levels of condition cleanses or resistance or Invulnerability beyond what Elusive Mind changed to cleanse two conditions would be.

> > >

> > > I got what you meant, it's ok.

> > >

> > > Was just saying that already one can facetank a decent amount of condi on mirage with EM anyway and regularly/frequently cleanse through dodges etc, so with two cleanses per dodge I believe it would be excessive. **Just because some other class builds are already able to facetank a lot of condi** doesn't mean that kind of play should be encouraged further - sure condi application is high but if the solution to that is making another build effectively immune to it, especially mirage of all things, I don't think that's healthy for the game either.

> >

> > It's not "Some other class builds." This entire meta is dominated by power builds that don't give a crap about incoming conditions. I'm not really interested in your pearl clutching about Mirage potentially having too much condition cleanse considering everything else that's going on in the game.

>

> Why should mirage join that club in terms of being able to ignore most conditions entirely, instead of pushing for everything else to be reigned back in (both application and resistance to condi) or just having a different solution for EM that could be a) more thematically interesting and b) not powercreeping it in a different way? A simple 2 condi cleanse and "boom" it's solved is a short term band aid - which I suppose is fine/acceptable given the usual slow and minimal nature of balance in general though if anything I consider it a buff - won't be complaining about that, so in that case yeah sure.

 

I think removing Mirage's ability to dodge while stunned, and removing the stunbreak functionality in Elusive Mind is a huge enough shift in Mirage's vulnerability that Mirage cloak cleansing two conditions not all that egregious.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

Hell people still think Mesmers have permanent stealth, conditions, power damage, portal, Moa, jaunt, mirage cloak, continuum split, and every other aspect of Mesmers elites rolled into one.

>

> This is why these conversations on this forum are pointless because people post based on not actual facts but on their crappy anecdotal stories and feelings.

 

So true. This is the same style of posts i see when people complain about other classes. The person posting makes it look like the class in question can slot FIVE traitlines instead of 3 and 8 utilities.