Please Release Episode 4 trailer today

[ProtoGunner.4953]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > As long as it wont be delayed I will be happy.

> >

> > The 3 months cadence ends on September 26.

> >

> > So this is when we should be expecting the episode

>

> It is not and never has been a date by date 3 month cadence. It is an approximation based on an ideal they hope to deliver, with the explicit caveat of it being shorter or longer based on any number of variables.

>

> Basically, itll be ready when it is ready and after openingly admitting they rushed Kourna, not one single person should be pushing them for a sooner finish or to deliver by an exact date. Id rather wait for 5 months and have a better quality, finished release frankly

 

Rushed but still took 4 months instead of their 'ideal 2-3 months'.

 

Just forget that 2-3 months. Even with this little content they release they can't even handle it to bring it on time. And even then it was rushed. Just sad.

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Arden.7480" said:

> I am sorry, guys but those "I want rather have a complete episode, not rushed one" make me so annoyed!

>

> Each time before any episode as far as remember the same people write the same thing.

>

> 2 months- rushed, 3 months- rushed, 4- rushed.

>

> It doesnt matter to you whether it will be 5,6 or 7.

>

> Everything will be "rushed".

>

> And the reality shows something different.

>

> Dont put your own expectations for the content you have no means to control...

>

> If the devs admit the meta was unfinished, then its their problem, they had extra 4 weeks- if 3 months cadence is a thing to you- to prepare everything.

>

> Also it doesnt seem like it, they were just forced to say that.

>

> How would you respond to the angry players that the meta is poor?

>

> If they would say:its not. Then the whole riot would be so huge that they would be accused that they are not serious company, that give bad events.

>

> If they would say:it is. Then it would be all the same!!

>

> They chose a path in the middle- admit its unfinished (while its not) and say- we will look into that.

>

>

> The Mike Z post in which he apologized that ep 3 is delayed confirmed 2-3 months cadence is still a thing.

>

> As I wrote before...

 

They didn't say the meta was rushed, they said it is in its finished state is the whole issue.

[Dami.5046]

How about I hope the next chapter actually doesn't crash and is playable on day one thread? No one is thinking about that.

[Randulf.7614]

They specifically stated they were unable to finish the Kournan meta and Moon Fortress area and wanted to go back and finish it if they had time. The unfinished assets proved this. This wasn't anyone pressurising the team, this wasn't a case of people claiming an episode was rushed when it wasn't like earlier examples, it was the dev team being honest. I appreciate their honesty, I really do, but given the very clear state of the map and the response, we know it was unfinished. And that is likely trying to meet arbitrary deadlines because the population is becoming too demanding about getting releases out in a calendar year where open world at least, is pretty spoiled already.

 

As for the crashing on day one issue, yes that is annoying. The problem with that is, things often go wrong on the live client and sometimes even full testing doesn't catch them. It happens in most games, so I'm less inclined to worry about that although I'm sympathetic to the frustrations.

 

I don't expect to enjoy every episode from a preference or stylistic stance and as a result Ep3 was extremely poor (to me) from a map and even more from a story point of view. It is the only map I haven't returned to on a repeat basis.. I don't expect an episode to be delivered by a certain date - no one should really unless they give an exact deadline. I do expect to see finished and complete, quality content when it drops.

[Fenar.4025]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > Perhaps a good question to ask them during the next AMA would be what they forecast there release cadence to be. Is it still every 2-3 months or is it further out?

>

> They basically answered that when they were streaming last week (notes). It's currently taking them 9-10 months to develop an episode, which means the cadence is now 3-4 months. Back when it was 2-3, it was 6-7 months per episode.

>

 

Where do they say it takes 9-10 months to develop an episode? The quote I saw was that they start planning out an entire season 9-10 months before the first episode is released. It takes them about 2.5 years from initial planning to releasing the final episode in the season.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I'd rather wait for 5 months and have a better quality, finished release. frankly.

 

100% this. Kourna could have been so much better, but instead was pushed half-finished.

 

 

[Healix.5819]

> @"Fenar.4025" said:

> Where do they say it takes 9-10 months to develop an episode? The quote I saw was that they start planning out an entire season 9-10 months before the first episode is released. It takes them about 2.5 years from initial planning to releasing the final episode in the season.

 

I only read the notes from reddit that said it takes 9-10 months. If the original source was this clip, that is indeed just them saying that they only figure out what the season is going to be about 9-12 months before the first episode is released, not that it takes that long to develop an episode. That said, if they stick to the 3+ month release schedule (it's been 2.3 months since episode 3, 9.3 months since episode 1) , that means each team potentially has 9+ months to develop an episode.

[Fenom.9457]

Given the timing and we have no idea what the patch in 2 weeks is, I’m thinking a trailer next week

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Xenon.4537" said:

> The "2-3 month cadence" became the "3 month cadence" which quietly became the "3-4 month cadence" and is now quickly becoming the "4 month cadence"...... By next year it will be the "7 month cadence" and after a certain point its like why even call it a "living world" of regular content release.

>

> And before anyone makes the argument that delaying it will improve the quality... look how that worked out for episode 3...

 

Yes, stuff happens and people understand that. If things get worse and worse and delivery timelines get longer and longer though than you probably need to throw more resources at the project. That does not work the same for all tasks (the famous line about a baby always taking 9 months no matter how many women are involved) but project management can look at what are those critical paths are and not throw up roadblocks to the people on them.

 

BTW, are they still on teams? I thought they stopped that after season 3 (although it seemed to be doing well from our perspective).

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> You've seen the source because I posted it in another thread when the episode was released and you had the same response.

>

> Anyway, it wasn't so much that they said it was rushed in the AMA as much as it was they stated that they had to redo some things because of design change decisions, and that they also had help near the end from someone from another team. I'm not going to bother trying to find the original AMA, and you're right, they never stated specifically that it was rushed.

>

> It was just heavily implied when you read between the lines of what they did say and discussed some of the things that went wrong.

>

> No idea whether it was the story that needed to be revised or redone, or if it was something relating to the decision to add the mount. Perhaps the mount decision impacted the episode much later in the episode's creation as they implied they didn't originally intend to add it into a living story episode but went for it anyway.

>

> It's pretty heavily regarded as the weakest episode this season, and in my opinion rightfully so. But I don't think it is the fault of the devs as much as it is disorganization during the episode's creation and probable design decisions that created a much longer delay. Even with the delay, there were still plenty of aspects that seemed a bit unfinished such as the meta and Gandara in general. The mount with the additional changes is much nicer but was fine even at release, as was the cinematic and the story instances once they were actually working. I think they probably had much larger plans for certain parts of it but realized they weren't necessary and cut due to time constraints due to said changes during development.

>

> Although we have had two delays in a row, I think it's as frustrating for them as it is for us and I don't expect it to continue. They seem to be restructuring a lot lately, so that may bode well for the future in all game modes and releases.

>

> In anycase, I hope we get a trailer next week! I don't have high expectations for Sun's Refuge in terms of being what I want it to be, but it's exciting non-the-less.

>

 

There's a difference between rushed and design changes which almost always occur which is probably what I said in that thread. The episode felt no different from any LS season episode post-HoT excluding the profitable farm in Istan.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > The last episode was not rushed... It was released after almost 4 months after Ep2.

>

> Technically correct, it was a half completed project that any kid in school would have been failed over.

> So while not "rushed" it certainly gave off the at the last minute vibe as in whoever was in charge didn't have the proper leadership skills to get people on board with deadlines and quality.

>

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"segman.3560" said:

> > > That's not true. They admitted they release Kourna map in unfinished state. Customers have every right to complain about that and put blame on devs.

> >

> > Source?

>

> Pretty sure it was in the Guild Chat episode following it's release. I'll dig through the video to double check. If it wasn't there it probably was in the AMA in some capacity.

>

>

>

> Both confirm an unfinished state for the map including last minute changes to the map.

 

I can want A through Z but only able to put A through M. That doesn't mean that it was rushed.

 

As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

[Astrolicus.3716]

Dude. I just wanted to rant, not everyone discussing about it. Oh well.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > @"Xenon.4537" said:

> > > > > > The "2-3 month cadence" became the "3 month cadence" which quietly became the "3-4 month cadence" and is now quickly becoming the "4 month cadence"...... By next year it will be the "7 month cadence" and after a certain point its like why even call it a "living world" of regular content release.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And before anyone makes the argument that delaying it will improve the quality... look how that worked out for episode 3...

> > > > >

> > > > > I personally found nothing wrong with episode 3 and felt it was no different than the previous episodes including LS3. Istan is only being propped up above everything else because of the farm.

> > > >

> > > > It wasnt worth the extra w8. Deff not the nearly 1 extra month worth of w8.

> > >

> > > Doesn't matter if it was worth or not when the beetle was unusable outside (or even on) the map because of bugs

> >

> > Was plently usable, i could use it fine in every map. Anyways, wether it had bugs or not doesnt matter because the mount it self wasnt content and the content the map had lasted 5 days tops.

>

> Are you trolling me?

>

> The map wasn't released because the beetle caused problems. You can't say it was "plenty usable" before it was even released. The wait was not for extra content, it was to fix the bugs and polish the rest.

>

> The mount was DEFINITELY content. You didn't just get it for free, you had to finish several collections that all had you runa round and play the game.

 

The mount it self isnt content the collection was. I didnt say anything diff here.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > I'd rather wait for 5 months and have a better quality, finished release. frankly.

>

> 100% this. Kourna could have been so much better, but instead was pushed half-finished.

>

>

 

Then they should manage their expectations and scope as a team. They are supposed to b shipping content every 2 to 3 months. Not the next big thing in gaming.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > @"Xenon.4537" said:

> > > > > > The "2-3 month cadence" became the "3 month cadence" which quietly became the "3-4 month cadence" and is now quickly becoming the "4 month cadence"...... By next year it will be the "7 month cadence" and after a certain point its like why even call it a "living world" of regular content release.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And before anyone makes the argument that delaying it will improve the quality... look how that worked out for episode 3...

> > > > >

> > > > > I personally found nothing wrong with episode 3 and felt it was no different than the previous episodes including LS3. Istan is only being propped up above everything else because of the farm.

> > > >

> > > > It wasnt worth the extra w8. Deff not the nearly 1 extra month worth of w8.

> > >

> > > Doesn't matter if it was worth or not when the beetle was unusable outside (or even on) the map because of bugs

> >

> > Was plently usable, i could use it fine in every map. Anyways, wether it had bugs or not doesnt matter because the mount it self wasnt content and the content the map had lasted 5 days tops.

>

> Are you trolling me?

>

> The map wasn't released because the beetle caused problems. You can't say it was "plenty usable" before it was even released. The wait was not for extra content, it was to fix the bugs and polish the rest.

>

> The mount was DEFINITELY content. You didn't just get it for free, you had to finish several collections that all had you runa round and play the game.

 

You and I remember it very diffrently, I was standing around waiting for temple events to spawn and not be bugged on completion

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Rauderi.8706" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > I'd rather wait for 5 months and have a better quality, finished release. frankly.

> >

> > 100% this. Kourna could have been so much better, but instead was pushed half-finished.

> >

> >

>

> Then they should manage their expectations and scope as a team. They are supposed to b shipping content every 2 to 3 months. Not the next big thing in gaming.

 

Yup. Can't argue that. Bug-roller is cute 'n all, but the utility doesn't add much for the time divested from the actual map.

[Zaraki.5784]

My bet is trailer out on Sept 18th and patch on Sept 25th.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

 

It's almost like you didn't read, nor watch the sources.

 

When they explicitly state things kept being shifted and cut quite literally up until the launch for said episode. That means it was an unfinished work. What they gave us wasn't the completed project but only what they could safely put out given they ran up against the time deadline.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

>

> It's almost like you didn't read, nor watch the sources.

>

> When they explicitly state things kept being shifted and cut quite literally up until the launch for said episode. That means it was an unfinished work. What they gave us wasn't the completed project but only what they could safely put out given they ran up against the time deadline.

 

Same can be said for just about any content. Things get cut all the time. Just because someone dislikes one episode doesn’t mean they can claim it as unfinished for something that occurs with every other piece of content. As I said in my post, no piece of content is likely to be truly finished as there’s likely to be plenty of other things they wanted to include but did not have the time for.

 

What you need to take into consideration is the quality of a particular released content compared to similar released content.

[Astrolicus.3716]

Title changed. For real. Who edited the title.

[Arden.7480]

> @"Astrolicus.3716" said:

> Title changed. For real. Who edited the title.

 

Only OP or moderator can change it (the moderator informs about the changes, though).

[Dante.1763]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

> >

> > It's almost like you didn't read, nor watch the sources.

> >

> > When they explicitly state things kept being shifted and cut quite literally up until the launch for said episode. That means it was an unfinished work. What they gave us wasn't the completed project but only what they could safely put out given they ran up against the time deadline.

>

> Same can be said for just about any content. Things get cut all the time. Just because someone dislikes one episode doesn’t mean they can claim it as unfinished for something that occurs with every other piece of content. As I said in my post, no piece of content is likely to be truly finished as there’s likely to be plenty of other things they wanted to include but did not have the time for.

>

> What you need to take into consideration is the quality of a particular released content compared to similar released content.

 

Taking that into account: Long Live the Lich was still the worst one and where it showed the most IMO, the other releases after PoF all felt very finished, even if they had major bugs.

[Arden.7480]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

> > >

> > > It's almost like you didn't read, nor watch the sources.

> > >

> > > When they explicitly state things kept being shifted and cut quite literally up until the launch for said episode. That means it was an unfinished work. What they gave us wasn't the completed project but only what they could safely put out given they ran up against the time deadline.

> >

> > Same can be said for just about any content. Things get cut all the time. Just because someone dislikes one episode doesn’t mean they can claim it as unfinished for something that occurs with every other piece of content. As I said in my post, no piece of content is likely to be truly finished as there’s likely to be plenty of other things they wanted to include but did not have the time for.

> >

> > What you need to take into consideration is the quality of a particular released content compared to similar released content.

>

> Taking that into account: Long Live the Lich was still the worst one and where it showed the most IMO, the other releases after PoF all felt very finished, even if they had major bugs.

 

To each their own, but it was obvious after the trailer, that this episode was all about Joko vs Commander.

 

They did an amazing job leading to the final instance, I felt the seriousness all over my body. Teaming up with the Primeval Queens and their army was one of the best things I've seen.

 

And the final cinematic where you can see so much effort, passion, emotion made this episode great!

 

They are getting very good with their ending chapters, they feel engaging in my opinion.

 

The storytelling is getting much better.

 

[Dante.1763]

> @"Arden.7480" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

> > > >

> > > > It's almost like you didn't read, nor watch the sources.

> > > >

> > > > When they explicitly state things kept being shifted and cut quite literally up until the launch for said episode. That means it was an unfinished work. What they gave us wasn't the completed project but only what they could safely put out given they ran up against the time deadline.

> > >

> > > Same can be said for just about any content. Things get cut all the time. Just because someone dislikes one episode doesn’t mean they can claim it as unfinished for something that occurs with every other piece of content. As I said in my post, no piece of content is likely to be truly finished as there’s likely to be plenty of other things they wanted to include but did not have the time for.

> > >

> > > What you need to take into consideration is the quality of a particular released content compared to similar released content.

> >

> > Taking that into account: Long Live the Lich was still the worst one and where it showed the most IMO, the other releases after PoF all felt very finished, even if they had major bugs.

>

> To each their own, but it was obvious after the trailer, that this episode was all about Joko vs Commander.

>

> They did an amazing job leading to the final instance, I felt the seriousness all over my body. Teaming up with the Primeval Queens and their army was one of the best things I've seen.

>

> And the final cinematic where you can see so much effort, passion, emotion made this episode great!

>

> They are getting very good with their ending chapters, they feel engaging in my opinion.

>

> The storytelling is getting much better.

>

 

Oh the story was great, you wont find me disagreeing there.

*however* LW is much more than the story, when it adds a map, the map should also be on the same level as the previous maps, and this one felt(and was more or less confirmed) to have stuff cut from it due to time, and to me personally, i would rather wait a month and have another finished map to play on that *feels* finished than what we have now, BFF was another one that felt the same way, but im hoping that if we go north we use BFF as a starting point and it gets some love, that wont happen with Kourna.

 

[Lavith.8930]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Arden.7480" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > As far as "unfinished" it really depends on what you consider a "finished" state to be. Things get cut and re-worked all the time. One thing that I can remember offhand would be that the HoT story was much larger than it was today but pieces were cut for pacing. There's also that one section in DS that got cut. Does that mean that map is unfinished? There are so many things you can possibly want to add that a map could technically never be finished. Look at every single release that they have done, was there a single episode that included everything that they wanted? Was Istan truly "finished"? Ignore there being a **profitable** meta when asking yourself that last question. It's not like there was a secret snake room, for example.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's almost like you didn't read, nor watch the sources.

> > > > >

> > > > > When they explicitly state things kept being shifted and cut quite literally up until the launch for said episode. That means it was an unfinished work. What they gave us wasn't the completed project but only what they could safely put out given they ran up against the time deadline.

> > > >

> > > > Same can be said for just about any content. Things get cut all the time. Just because someone dislikes one episode doesn’t mean they can claim it as unfinished for something that occurs with every other piece of content. As I said in my post, no piece of content is likely to be truly finished as there’s likely to be plenty of other things they wanted to include but did not have the time for.

> > > >

> > > > What you need to take into consideration is the quality of a particular released content compared to similar released content.

> > >

> > > Taking that into account: Long Live the Lich was still the worst one and where it showed the most IMO, the other releases after PoF all felt very finished, even if they had major bugs.

> >

> > To each their own, but it was obvious after the trailer, that this episode was all about Joko vs Commander.

> >

> > They did an amazing job leading to the final instance, I felt the seriousness all over my body. Teaming up with the Primeval Queens and their army was one of the best things I've seen.

> >

> > And the final cinematic where you can see so much effort, passion, emotion made this episode great!

> >

> > They are getting very good with their ending chapters, they feel engaging in my opinion.

> >

> > The storytelling is getting much better.

> >

>

> Oh the story was great, you wont find me disagreeing there.

> *however* LW is much more than the story, when it adds a map, the map should also be on the same level as the previous maps, and this one felt(and was more or less confirmed) to have stuff cut from it due to time, and to me personally, i would rather wait a month and have another finished map to play on that *feels* finished than what we have now, BFF was another one that felt the same way, but im hoping that if we go north we use BFF as a starting point and it gets some love, that wont happen with Kourna.

>

 

BFF is one of my favourite map just for one thing. The part with giant trees. I love it so much I wish we can have a map like that with villages in the trees, like itzels but snowy and less confused.