AliamRationem.5172 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > Guild Wars 2 is not Pay to Win. Please see most player comments within this thread to understand why that is true. > > I'm very proud that we do *not* force someone to continue to open their wallet in order to play the game. Gem Store purchases and expansion pack purchases are **optional.** Depending on your personal preferences, such purchases may enhance your experience, but they are not necessary for you to successfully play in any game mode. > > For example, I like miniatures and have purchased quite a few. I also like mount skins, and buy those from time to time. But in both cases, or even in the purchase of full armor sets, *I gain no advantage over any other player*. My minis don't make me more powerful; my purchased armor does not make me less vulnerable. I succeed based on skill, using the components available as drops or as purchases. > > Likewise, owning Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire give players access to more things, but they am not more likely to succeed because they own it. > > I hope these details are helpful. I must disagree on one point. Owning the expansions does make players more likely to succeed. The most obvious example of this are the elite specs, which make our characters objectively stronger. The meta is dominated by elite specs nearly across the board for every class and in every game mode. However, that is as far as "pay-to-win" goes in GW2, and I don't know of any game (subscription or otherwise!) that offers expansions free of charge. So I agree that you can't really call GW2 a "pay-to-win" game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Gaile Gray.6029 Posted September 14, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted September 14, 2018 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > Guild Wars 2 is not Pay to Win. Please see most player comments within this thread to understand why that is true. > > > > I'm very proud that we do *not* force someone to continue to open their wallet in order to play the game. Gem Store purchases and expansion pack purchases are **optional.** Depending on your personal preferences, such purchases may enhance your experience, but they are not necessary for you to successfully play in any game mode. > > > > For example, I like miniatures and have purchased quite a few. I also like mount skins, and buy those from time to time. But in both cases, or even in the purchase of full armor sets, *I gain no advantage over any other player*. My minis don't make me more powerful; my purchased armor does not make me less vulnerable. I succeed based on skill, using the components available as drops or as purchases. > > > > Likewise, owning Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire give players access to more things, but they am not more likely to succeed because they own it. > > > > I hope these details are helpful. > > I must disagree on one point. Owning the expansions does make players more likely to succeed. The most obvious example of this are the elite specs, which make our characters objectively stronger. The meta is dominated by elite specs nearly across the board for every class and in every game mode. However, that is as far as "pay-to-win" goes in GW2, and I don't know of any game (subscription or otherwise!) that offers expansions free of charge. > I understand your points. I read one comment about how a player who owns only the core game will do very well --even against fully elite-spec'd players -- if they are highly skilled. I guess we'd take from that that a player with average skills would benefit from having more options through the elites? I still tend to believe, though, that they would not be inherently more powerful, but I could well be wrong about that, as the elites can be pretty mighty. > So I agree that you can't really call GW2 a "pay-to-win" game. I'm very glad about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnuschnu.9857 Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > I understand your points. I read one comment about how a player who owns only the core game will do very well --even against fully elite-spec'd players -- if they are highly skilled. I guess we'd take from that that a player with average skills would benefit from having more options through the elites? I still tend to believe, though, that they would not be inherently more powerful, but I could well be wrong about that, as the elites can be pretty mighty. This depends heavily on the profession. Guard and Warrior are in a good spot for core, necro and especially engi can have it pretty rough because some balance for the elite specs was done by nerfing the core profession. And the elites for the last two are way more powerful than core. Something I'm honestly quite sad about but I hope future reworks will get this right (recent balance was actually good, not perfect, but who can claim to do everything perfectly?). And still I would not say GW2 is p2w. It's far from this imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBravery.9615 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 It's not pay to win in a traditional sense that you need to keep pumping cash into the system to get a competitive edge, but it's buy to win in a sense that you buy an xpac and get access to a specializations has clear power over base specializations. You can say skill > professions all you want but this isn't exactly a fair playing ground either. Each skill and trait has variables that will give one skill an advantage over the other. It's not to the point where the elite specs are super overpowered over base specs, but it's still enough to give a competitive advantage **to win**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > It's not pay to win in a traditional sense that you need to keep pumping cash into the system to get a competitive edge, but it's buy to win in a sense that you buy an xpac and get access to a specializations has clear power over base specializations. > > You can say skill > professions all you want but this isn't exactly a fair playing ground either. Each skill and trait has variables that will give one skill an advantage over the other. It's not to the point where the elite specs are super overpowered over base specs, but it's still enough to give a competitive advantage **to win**. And in other games you get more levels and skills with expacs if you dont buy them you got zero chance to win so no gw2 is not buy to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBravery.9615 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > It's not pay to win in a traditional sense that you need to keep pumping cash into the system to get a competitive edge, but it's buy to win in a sense that you buy an xpac and get access to a specializations has clear power over base specializations. > > > > You can say skill > professions all you want but this isn't exactly a fair playing ground either. Each skill and trait has variables that will give one skill an advantage over the other. It's not to the point where the elite specs are super overpowered over base specs, but it's still enough to give a competitive advantage **to win**. > > And in other games you get more levels and skills with expacs if you dont buy them you got zero chance to win so no gw2 is not buy to win. The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. The answer is: Yes. The elite specializations have a distinctive advantage over base professions, and it's because this is a RPG with damage variables. It's not a level playing field based 100% on skill like a game of chess. It's not a huge advantage, you can manage with base professions, but it's an advantage nonetheless, and an advantage to help you win. If you ask everyone in pvp if they're playing an elite specialization or base, the majority will be playing an elite specialization. If you ask them why, it's because they perform better. You're free to disagree all you want, this is my opinion. In my opinion the skills balance team still have a lot of work to do if they want to make this less of a 'buy to win' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 About the P2W argument: This game is not P2W, because that would imply there are items not available to normal players that offer a considerable advantage over normal items available through gameplay. You cannot use your money to buy elite specs directly, they are NOT something you buy on the gem store, so calling elite specs P2W is a huge stretch of the term. Elite specs are available as part of an entire expansion, with tons of other content, maps and story, if they were sold separately, on the gem store, then you could argue this is P2W but they are not. Calling Expansions P2W is silly because it means every game out there with expansions is also P2W, especially those that raise the level cap with each expansion, yet that term is NEVER used for those games either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBravery.9615 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > @"rvvd.6548" said: > > > 4-Can this game be described as P2W? > > Yes. Most of the elite spec professions will outperform base professions, but there's no cash shop item that will give you an edge and some are doable with base professions. Half/Half > > "Pay to Win" is a term that refers to being unable to play end game content unless purchasing from the cash shop. It hasn't historically included the purchase of expansions, since those are the actual game. What's different with GW2 is that you can actually compete in WvW and PvP without an expansion. Your gear will still work, you'll just be limited in build; that generally means you need more skill than those who own. > > Stretching the term to include expansions undermines the concept the term is trying to illustrate: that in certain games, players are forced to keep paying to play. In GW2, you will find it easier if you own the expansions, but it's not a gate preventing play. > > On the other hand, the OP's phrasing suggests that they might, too, stretch the definition. So your answer might be more helpful to them, because it addresses **the underlying concern rather than the technical truth.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin.8923 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 After spending the day repeating story missions because they won't fix a bug I am regretting coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turin.6921 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"rvvd.6548" said: > I bought GW2 about a year and half ago. It was fun and crowded, then after reaching about level 20+ I felt so bored from the PvE and the PvP arena felt confusing and the skills were overwhelming, then suddenly GW2 went free and 2 Expansions rolled out. How did you buy the core game alone a year and a half ago? The core game is not being sold officially since it went free to play and that was in 2015. Its either been a lot more time since when you did the purchaser than you think or what you actually bought was the 1st expansion and you already have a lot more than the free player (or you got scammed by someone selling an old core game key at a time that was already free to play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"rvvd.6548" said: > 3- How hard is it to get into PvP ? make a character, pass tutorial, get your lv 2, open pvp panel, go to pvp lobby, setup your skills and traits, buy white weapon from vendor, setup your rune, amulet, sigils(those all are builded in, no need to farm/buy). Press that button to Q. GL&HF P.S Read those notes that will pop on your screen once you enter BG. P.S.S You might wanna go to golems to check what your skills do before you Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"Turin.6921" said: > > @"rvvd.6548" said: > > I bought GW2 about a year and half ago. It was fun and crowded, then after reaching about level 20+ I felt so bored from the PvE and the PvP arena felt confusing and the skills were overwhelming, then suddenly GW2 went free and 2 Expansions rolled out. > > How did you buy the core game alone a year and a half ago? The core game is not being sold officially since it went free to play and that was in 2015. > > Its either been a lot more time since when you did the purchaser than you think or what you actually bought was the 1st expansion and you already have a lot more than the free player (or you got scammed by someone selling an old core game key at a time that was already free to play). > There are still physical copies of core game in markets. Just saw two few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"Turin.6921" said: > > @"rvvd.6548" said: > > I bought GW2 about a year and half ago. It was fun and crowded, then after reaching about level 20+ I felt so bored from the PvE and the PvP arena felt confusing and the skills were overwhelming, then suddenly GW2 went free and 2 Expansions rolled out. > > How did you buy the core game alone a year and a half ago? The core game is not being sold officially since it went free to play and that was in 2015. > > Its either been a lot more time since when you did the purchaser than you think or what you actually bought was the 1st expansion and you already have a lot more than the free player (or you got scammed by someone selling an old core game key at a time that was already free to play). > maybe s/he found a old core box in a bargin bin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. > > Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? > > I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. Expansions are not simply selling competitive advantage, they are selling a full experience to their players, so this argument doesn't work with them. Otherwise every game ever that had an expansion would be labeled P2W, but, fortunately for our sanity, they are not. To answer your question, from what I read, in BDO they offer Outfits (available on their store) that are also providing a statistic advantage (more power), that's P2W. You can't possibly put an entire expansion in the same situation as a store purchase. If they did the same in Guild Wars 2 you could say it would also be P2W, but they don't. I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBravery.9615 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > > > > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > > > > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > > > > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. > > > > Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? > > > > I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. > > Expansions are not simply selling competitive advantage, they are selling a full experience to their players, so this argument doesn't work with them. Otherwise every game ever that had an expansion would be labeled P2W, but, fortunately for our sanity, they are not. > > To answer your question, from what I read, in BDO they offer Outfits (available on their store) that are also providing a statistic advantage (more power), that's P2W. You can't possibly put an entire expansion in the same situation as a store purchase. If they did the same in Guild Wars 2 you could say it would also be P2W, but they don't. > > I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? See, you're concerned with trying to define what pay to win or buy to win is. I'm just giving my opinion that this game costs real money to get an advantage. Like I said this is my opinion, you can keep your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > > > > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > > > > > > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > > > > > > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > > > > > > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. > > > > > > Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? > > > > > > I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. > > > > Expansions are not simply selling competitive advantage, they are selling a full experience to their players, so this argument doesn't work with them. Otherwise every game ever that had an expansion would be labeled P2W, but, fortunately for our sanity, they are not. > > > > To answer your question, from what I read, in BDO they offer Outfits (available on their store) that are also providing a statistic advantage (more power), that's P2W. You can't possibly put an entire expansion in the same situation as a store purchase. If they did the same in Guild Wars 2 you could say it would also be P2W, but they don't. > > > > I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? > > See, you're concerned with trying to define what pay to win or buy to win is. I'm just giving my opinion that this game costs real money to get an advantage. > > Like I said this is my opinion, you can keep your own. I'm gonna make the same question to you then: > I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? Edit: Plus, that money you pay isn't to get an "advantage", it's to get an entire expansion with all the other things it brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calb.3128 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 And also let's remember that this is a game that could be bought in 2012 and without a single penny spent since. Unlike some other popular MMOs, there is no subscription fee, but there _are_ ongoing costs associated with the running of the game. I think it's worth using that as the frame of reference when considering the content of expansion packs and one's own entitlement. Not having either of the expansion packs will not prevent competitive PvP play, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that a returning player can get back into the game at no cost then, if he or she likes what they find, consider an expansion to support the development of the game. That would be no different to many other games (whether PC or console!), and this one has far fewer barriers to entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > > > > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > > > > > > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > > > > > > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > > > > > > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. > > > > > > Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? > > > > > > I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. > > > > Expansions are not simply selling competitive advantage, they are selling a full experience to their players, so this argument doesn't work with them. Otherwise every game ever that had an expansion would be labeled P2W, but, fortunately for our sanity, they are not. > > > > To answer your question, from what I read, in BDO they offer Outfits (available on their store) that are also providing a statistic advantage (more power), that's P2W. You can't possibly put an entire expansion in the same situation as a store purchase. If they did the same in Guild Wars 2 you could say it would also be P2W, but they don't. > > > > I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? > > See, you're concerned with trying to define what pay to win or buy to win is. I'm just giving my opinion that this game costs real money to get an advantage. > > Like I said this is my opinion, you can keep your own. There is no buy to win its called "buy to play" period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBravery.9615 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > > > > > > > > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > > > > > > > > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > > > > > > > > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. > > > > > > > > Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? > > > > > > > > I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. > > > > > > Expansions are not simply selling competitive advantage, they are selling a full experience to their players, so this argument doesn't work with them. Otherwise every game ever that had an expansion would be labeled P2W, but, fortunately for our sanity, they are not. > > > > > > To answer your question, from what I read, in BDO they offer Outfits (available on their store) that are also providing a statistic advantage (more power), that's P2W. You can't possibly put an entire expansion in the same situation as a store purchase. If they did the same in Guild Wars 2 you could say it would also be P2W, but they don't. > > > > > > I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? > > > > See, you're concerned with trying to define what pay to win or buy to win is. I'm just giving my opinion that this game costs real money to get an advantage. > > > > Like I said this is my opinion, you can keep your own. > > There is no buy to win its called "buy to play" period. You don't have to buy to play, there's a free to play version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemnaid.4219 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 > 1- you get all the same things. > 2- PvP is dead. You’ll play against bots and trade wins. > 3- Not very hard. > 4-Yes. > 5- The new elites are op. P2w. > 6- NO! > 7- No. that’s more than enough time. > >Dont get too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > > @"TheBravery.9615" said: > > > > > > > > > The question is: do the expansion pack professions give you an advantage over base professions? I'm not looking at other games. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is: can you buy elite specs from the gem store? Can you buy elite specs directly? No you can't, they are part of an expansion, therefore there is nothing P2W about it. Your argument about "buy to win" is silly because it implies every single game with expansions is "buy to win", which means there is nothing really to change in GW2, if every single game with expansions is like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a game bundled an item that gave a character a huge damage and defense boost in pvp in with some cosmetic armor pieces, a minipet, and access to a new map...would it be pay to win? Even if the item giving a huge advantage was not sold individually but as rather part of an expansion? > > > > > > > > > > > > It wouldn't. That's what most (if not all?) mmorpgs do with their expansions when they increase the level cap. Guild Wars 2 is one of the exceptions because it doesn't have a level cap increase. > > > > > > > > > > > > Further, using this weird logic, Guild Wars 1 was a very clear P2W game because skills in expansions were vastly superior to Core or Prophecies skills (depending on profession) while some professions weren't even available only with Core, even though they were very powerful. Yet, I've never seen anyone calling Guild Wars 1 a P2W game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Somehow this idea that because expansions offer new abilities and elite specs equals P2W appears only on these Guild Wars 2 forums even though this same thing existed for decades before this game was released and it was never called P2W. > > > > > > > > > > Would it, then, not be pay to win to bundle an item that game a significant competitive advantage with a minipet? > > > > > > > > > > I am really curious as to at exactly what point it stops being pay to win to sell competitive advantage. > > > > > > > > Expansions are not simply selling competitive advantage, they are selling a full experience to their players, so this argument doesn't work with them. Otherwise every game ever that had an expansion would be labeled P2W, but, fortunately for our sanity, they are not. > > > > > > > > To answer your question, from what I read, in BDO they offer Outfits (available on their store) that are also providing a statistic advantage (more power), that's P2W. You can't possibly put an entire expansion in the same situation as a store purchase. If they did the same in Guild Wars 2 you could say it would also be P2W, but they don't. > > > > > > > > I'm curious though since you are so into this P2W, which multiplayer game, that offers expansions, do you think is NOT P2W? > > > > > > See, you're concerned with trying to define what pay to win or buy to win is. I'm just giving my opinion that this game costs real money to get an advantage. > > > > > > Like I said this is my opinion, you can keep your own. > > > > There is no buy to win its called "buy to play" period. > > You don't have to buy to play, there's a free to play version. Yea we are talking about buying expansions here since the one I reply to consider it buy to win. If they want to play the expansion content (yes elite specs are content) its buy to play not buy to win. Please try to follow the discussion mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now