Introduce a tutorial on breakbars in the starter instance.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > > I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars, it's been years since they've been introduced but apparently players will only figure out what to do if you force them to learn through a tutorial. So teach them, they won't listen to other players unless we're extremely rude to them to get their attention. then they complain about people being rude to them, and that only gets the ones who are kind of not paying attention to chat unless you yell at them, there's others that don't pay attention to chat whatsoever.

> >

> > 3 things are now guaranteed in life.. Death, Taxes and players whining about breakbars being broken to slowly or too fast.

> >

> > Oh btw.. tutorials probably wont help, I mean those dodge tutorials are super informative.. yet I still see so many corpses inside red circles on whatever map/event I happen to be passing through :)

> >

> >

>

> Saddly, sometimes you start taking damage before the red circle becomes visible, ive gotten killed several times by such things happening, especially during large events. Not everyone has the ability to see whats going around them in "real time" due to lag or even terrible computers, the former makes it hard to dodge due to lag, the latter makes it hard to see anything, or react in a timely manner.

 

Yeah lag seems to affect so many at the same time.. lagasaurus is strong... dodge is hard.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> There is no reaching those people

There are all sorts of ways to reach people.

 

> unless the game developers literally force it on them, which is what I'm asking.

You are advocating yelling at people and have since doubled and tripled down on this. If all you were doing is asking for ANet to do something, then I'd be responding to the specifics of your suggestion (which I did in my first response; you only chose to defend your position on yelling). (As a remind, I pointed out that the tutorial is unlikely to be the best place to teach people.)

 

If your goal is to convince ANet of the incredible value to them of offering better ways for people to learn than on-the-go, focus on that and skip the anecdotes or insistence that somehow ANet is forcing you to be rude. Virtually every veteran would love for more of the game's mechanics to be taught in the game so that they, too, can focus on having fun, instead of feeling like the responsibility to teach is on them. Regardless of our differences on learning methodologies or teaching systems, I think we both agree that the game does a terrible job of exposing players to basic and advanced mechanics. And ANet would draw in more people and retain them longer if folks who wanted to learn had options for learning-by-doing, learning-by-hearing, as well as learning-by-reading external sites.

 

****

 

> @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> No, yelling and cursing someone out when they screw up after having not listened to you the first time you tried to politely explain is to get their attention, because sometimes that's what it takes.

It is almost never what it takes, because it doesn't actually work most of the time.

 

> Do you think Boot Camp instructors yell and curse at recruits is out of frustration?

You are (a) not their instructor and (b) they aren't in bootcamp. This method is selectively effective in the armed services because it results in lots of people quitting. Part of the reason it is used that it provides a common enemy, and thus a tool for bonding squadmates together, which is a key requirement for an effective group. It also gets people to stop thinking and follow orders exactly, which is a requirement for staying alive in typical combat situations. And finally, it's used because it's quick & dirty, not because it's proven to be the most efficient for the most people in the long run.

 

Since this is a game, it's a poor choice for teaching _players_, who are here to have fun, not listen to strangers berate them.

 

> No they do it because that grabs immediate attention and causes the person to listen.

What causes those people to listen is that they are stuck in the environment. If they want to be in the military, they have no choice. Players have choices and one of them is to ignore people who don't get that.

 

> Calm and polite is as far as I've experienced both in games and IRL, about as effective as leaving a pamphlet explaining things in a common area in view.

I dunno; I have good luck with it in this very game. But then, I don't expect anyone to get it first or even fourth time through.

 

> Those who are genuinely interested in learning ahead of time will seek out sources of information and ask questions or read things like forums, wiki pages, and other sources of available information,

_Some_ people learn by seeking outside sources. Lots of people do not, for any of a variety of reasons.

 

> that's the underwhelming minority of players.

Yes, there's tons of research that show that some people cannot learn much by reading. Some learn by listening. Some by doing. Some people learn some things best by a combination of all three.

 

More importantly: it would not occur to a lot of people that there is something that they must learn about how to play the game. For breaking defiance, there's a cognitive dissonance as to why it's a good idea to take time away from inflicting damage.

 

> The majority of people expect to learn by doing, rather than having an explanation told to them ahead of time.

Again, you're confusing this game for a learning center. People aren't here to learn; they are here to have fun. You can't assume that folks who don't know mechanics even know that it's important to learn them.

 

> Some of those, will respond to being yelled at as it grabs attention.

No, hardly anyone responds well to being yelled at. Do you? If someone yelled at you for misunderstanding a game mechanic, which you (a) believe them and pay more attention to find out what you missed or (b) dismiss them as a know-nothing who doesn't know as much as you or © dismiss them as unworthy of your attention.

 

> Some it embarasses so they strive to do better to not be yelled at again., then some simply don't care and ignore everything.

Most people do not do better by being embarrassed. Which is why I don't point out typos made in forum posts, even though everyone's browser comes with a built-in spellchecker to avoid them.

 

 

[DaFishBob.6518]

Volatile bloodstone elementals could be raining down their fragments everywhere and people still won't be able to properly CC the champion bloodstone elemental I find.

 

Going through TD on the SCAR path, had to introduce someone to the scrap weapon bundle that fires tornadoes during the scrap cannon escort event in order to keep the bonebreakers and rolling devils off of it.

 

People complaining about Joko's break bar when there were bones ready to use all over.

 

Some people simply don't take the time to consider the available resources in the area or on their character. Quite a shame.

[Dami.5046]

nah just annoy the hell out of everyone at every breakbar with a huge white arrow pointing to what skill to press and why like the dodging/chest in the first area's. And get it to flash if nothing happens.

 

[Blocki.4931]

> @"DaFishBob.6518" said:

> Volatile bloodstone elementals could be raining down their fragments everywhere and people still won't be able to properly CC the champion bloodstone elemental I find.

>

> Going through TD on the SCAR path, had to introduce someone to the scrap weapon bundle that fires tornadoes during the scrap cannon escort event in order to keep the bonebreakers and rolling devils off of it.

>

> People complaining about Joko's break bar when there were bones ready to use all over.

>

> Some people simply don't take the time to consider the available resources in the area or on their character. Quite a shame.

 

The Joko one is my favorite. Even a Cripple breaks it and people complained about it being too hard. Another fight you can't even fail because it just revives you on the spot pretty much anyway.

[kharmin.7683]

Can't discount the new players who boost to 80 to get into the "end game" content and then don't understand the mechanics. Placing a CC tutorial on starter maps (or even level 60 maps) would not be seen by these players. Personally, I thought that the level 80 boost was a bad idea, but that milk has been spilled.

[Randulf.7614]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > There is no reaching those people

> There are all sorts of ways to reach people.

>

> > unless the game developers literally force it on them, which is what I'm asking.

> You are advocating yelling at people and have since doubled and tripled down on this. If all you were doing is asking for ANet to do something, then I'd be responding to the specifics of your suggestion (which I did in my first response; you only chose to defend your position on yelling). (As a remind, I pointed out that the tutorial is unlikely to be the best place to teach people.)

>

> If your goal is to convince ANet of the incredible value to them of offering better ways for people to learn than on-the-go, focus on that and skip the anecdotes or insistence that somehow ANet is forcing you to be rude. Virtually every veteran would love for more of the game's mechanics to be taught in the game so that they, too, can focus on having fun, instead of feeling like the responsibility to teach is on them. Regardless of our differences on learning methodologies or teaching systems, I think we both agree that the game does a terrible job of exposing players to basic and advanced mechanics. And ANet would draw in more people and retain them longer if folks who wanted to learn had options for learning-by-doing, learning-by-hearing, as well as learning-by-reading external sites.

>

> ****

>

> > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > No, yelling and cursing someone out when they screw up after having not listened to you the first time you tried to politely explain is to get their attention, because sometimes that's what it takes.

> It is almost never what it takes, because it doesn't actually work most of the time.

>

> > Do you think Boot Camp instructors yell and curse at recruits is out of frustration?

> You are (a) not their instructor and (b) they aren't in bootcamp. This method is selectively effective in the armed services because it results in lots of people quitting. Part of the reason it is used that it provides a common enemy, and thus a tool for bonding squadmates together, which is a key requirement for an effective group. It also gets people to stop thinking and follow orders exactly, which is a requirement for staying alive in typical combat situations. And finally, it's used because it's quick & dirty, not because it's proven to be the most efficient for the most people in the long run.

>

> Since this is a game, it's a poor choice for teaching _players_, who are here to have fun, not listen to strangers berate them.

>

> > No they do it because that grabs immediate attention and causes the person to listen.

> What causes those people to listen is that they are stuck in the environment. If they want to be in the military, they have no choice. Players have choices and one of them is to ignore people who don't get that.

>

> > Calm and polite is as far as I've experienced both in games and IRL, about as effective as leaving a pamphlet explaining things in a common area in view.

> I dunno; I have good luck with it in this very game. But then, I don't expect anyone to get it first or even fourth time through.

>

> > Those who are genuinely interested in learning ahead of time will seek out sources of information and ask questions or read things like forums, wiki pages, and other sources of available information,

> _Some_ people learn by seeking outside sources. Lots of people do not, for any of a variety of reasons.

>

> > that's the underwhelming minority of players.

> Yes, there's tons of research that show that some people cannot learn much by reading. Some learn by listening. Some by doing. Some people learn some things best by a combination of all three.

>

> More importantly: it would not occur to a lot of people that there is something that they must learn about how to play the game. For breaking defiance, there's a cognitive dissonance as to why it's a good idea to take time away from inflicting damage.

>

> > The majority of people expect to learn by doing, rather than having an explanation told to them ahead of time.

> Again, you're confusing this game for a learning center. People aren't here to learn; they are here to have fun. You can't assume that folks who don't know mechanics even know that it's important to learn them.

>

> > Some of those, will respond to being yelled at as it grabs attention.

> No, hardly anyone responds well to being yelled at. Do you? If someone yelled at you for misunderstanding a game mechanic, which you (a) believe them and pay more attention to find out what you missed or (b) dismiss them as a know-nothing who doesn't know as much as you or © dismiss them as unworthy of your attention.

>

> > Some it embarasses so they strive to do better to not be yelled at again., then some simply don't care and ignore everything.

> Most people do not do better by being embarrassed. Which is why I don't point out typos made in forum posts, even though everyone's browser comes with a built-in spellchecker to avoid them.

>

>

 

Pretty much 100% spot on

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Defiance in this game is complicated. If you simply tell people to bring CC, it is possible they will all bring soft CC which will not help map meta events, because of the way soft CC is designed and the defiance bar scaling. Defiance bar damage is also not noted in game, so there is no way to know if people are simply bringing useless CC abilities. Even if they are tutorials, they would be scaled for a single player, and would be possible to complete with soft CC. Unless changes are made to the defiance system, these tutorials would likely fail to encourage hard CC which is needed for larger group content.

 

There isn't really any problem maintaining 100% uptime of most stacks by time conditions, which includes all soft CC effects, in open world meta content. It is clear that people do bring CC. Perhaps it is easy to have soft CC because it appears across many abilities and builds. In un-scaled content this soft CC is probably enough to get through most people's encounters of brake bars.

 

The problem with soft CC is they stack by time, and, especially for time limited bars, they are pointless when you stack 100 seconds of cc for a bar open for only 10 seconds. The stack by time soft control effects made sense, pre defiance, when they could only have one intensity. But now they would make more sense and there would better match defiance bar scaling if they stacked by intensity of defiance damage. But, with how it works, we are at a point where, there is simply good cc, and bad cc for defiance bars of meta bosses.

 

Also.

There is no in game resource to learn about effective defiance breaking. And I think a tutorial will not be effective considering, this is what has to be explained.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiance_bar

Of course sections 3 and maybe 4, 5, and 6 of that article should at least be conveyed using tool-tips, but they aren't. :confused:

Pre-cast is a major pain in the butt when dealing with time limited break bars, and takes up valuable time not apply the whole force of a classes possible CC. :angry:

 

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

 

> I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars, it's been years since they've been introduced but apparently players will only figure out what to do if you force them to learn through a tutorial.

 

We have this topic once in a while. I had a funny idea about this recently:

At the moment, when you join the game as a newbie and ask for anything you are forwarded to any snowcrows/metabattle-build instantly. People do what the guides teach them. Later the people who offered the links are confused that those newbies are unable to CC. So:

 

Why don't the communities of the meta/efficiency-movement create a tutorial/guide about those simple but important game-mechanics and post it on their websites?

 

> @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> So teach them, they won't listen to other players unless we're extremely rude to them to get their attention. then they complain about people being rude to them, and that only gets the ones who are kind of not paying attention to chat unless you yell at them, there's others that don't pay attention to chat whatsoever.

 

There is an alternative to that, but it requires a calm mind, some patience and inner peace. If you are fighting a boss or are about to do so, you need to explain the mechanics to the others. Pick a clam tone, a friendly approach and never be forceful.

 

**Situation number 1:** A bossfight during an event, where the enemy seems to channel a certain skill whenever it hits a certain % of HP. During the channeling he is vulnerable, but also has a break-bar revealed, which seems to be locked during the regular fight. It is technically not possible to outdamage the siutation, if the channeling is not interrupted, so CC is key to finish the event.

 

_"Ok guys. Can we please focus on interrupting his cast the next time? He seems to recover with that. Next time he does that, a blue bar will appear below his HP bar. Just use some CC skills to get it down. CC means crowd-control, those are knock-backs, knock-downs, interrupts, stuns, dazes, but also conditions like cripple, chill and slow. If you have any of these in your skill-bars, unleash them during the channeling. Thank you."_

 

I've tried this a lot, it usually works. During the next channeling-phase, a few players will try and the others will just watch or are busy searching for their cc-skills, probably realize they are on cooldown at the moment. So this channeling-phase will fail for sure. But you will notice an improvement. That is the time for a second approach to the other players.

 

_"Have you seen that? It seems to work. Good job everyone! Next time we get it down, just hang on."_

 

People like to be praised and are more willing to do something for you if you praise them before. Yelling any insults at them only makes them angry and they will probably do the exact opposite of what you say, just to punish you.

 

 

**Situation number 2:** Vinetooth Prime. When creating the squad 5-10 minutes before the actual event:

 

_"Ok everybody. This boss can be very difficult. It has extremely powerful melee attacks and can easily lethal glasscannon-characters. So prepare your blocks, attack it from behind or even better RANGED. Once in a while he will start channeling a very powerful skill, which we have to interrupt at any cost. A blue so called break-bar will appear below his HP bar, which we have to take down with CC attacks. Those are stuns, knock-downs, knock-backs, dazes as well as conditions like chill, cripple, immobilize and slow. Before we enter the den, make sure to equip at least two of these skills in your skillbar. It may lower your dps, but if we are not able to get that bar down, it will rip us apart. There is NO way to outdamage it. Make sure to resurrect every downed player instantly, dead people use waypoints. Most of us have mounts, so getting back is a question of just a few seconds. Good luck!"_

 

A peaceful approach is in most cases more difficult. You need to calm down yourselves, take your time and sometimes sacrifice a vital dps-phase for explanations. But even if that event fails this time, the next time it will run a lot better. I do not see any good reason to be mean to other players. Not for something they literally do not know and some of them even cannot know.

 

[Vash.2386]

It would also be helpful to know which of our skills are CC. Maybe if we had the same colored blue bar running along the bottom or top of a skill icon - similar to the red bar on a skill if you are not within range of an enemy.

 

Al least if there was a visual clue on the skill then it would be easy for newbies to know which skills to bring.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Vash.2386" said:

> It would also be helpful to know which of our skills are CC. Maybe if we had the same colored blue bar running along the bottom or top of a skill icon - similar to the red bar on a skill if you are not within range of an enemy.

>

> Al least if there was a visual clue on the skill then it would be easy for newbies to know which skills to bring.

 

Very true.

 

Some people play multiple professions, and don’t know what each profession’s CC skills are off the top of their head, and some people play intermittently, and forget the fine details about their skills.

 

After all, how many breakbars do you see while leveling? Very few and not explained at all by the game before you encounter them. At the very least a visual clue on the skills would be a step forward and useful when other players are giving instructions before the event.

[Ayrilana.1396]

All they need to do is offer some fancy skin to entice players and lock it behind a personal instance that requires players to learn to deal with break bars otherwise it'd be impossible to succeed.

[Haishao.6851]

> @"Vash.2386" said:

> It would also be helpful to know which of our skills are CC. Maybe if we had the same colored blue bar running along the bottom or top of a skill icon - similar to the red bar on a skill if you are not within range of an enemy.

>

> Al least if there was a visual clue on the skill then it would be easy for newbies to know which skills to bring.

 

In Blade&Soul, when you use CC on a boss, it make a pretty loud sound and a colored icon lights up on the health bar.

I don't think CC were explained in game even if it's simple enough, but because of that sound and the colored icon, it was very obvious something was happening, and it made me want to know why, and look into it.

 

Maybe there could be a sound and the break bar could flash when we hit it with a CC. Maybe the sound could even change in intensity depending of the strength of the CC used. This would attract attention and make people look into why this sound happen, and learn they did CC.

 

 

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

> > >

> > > It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

> >

> > Probably would be a good idea to add it to the Arah missions though, a few of them have champions still if i recall and all of those have breakbars which honestly if you break them(doesnt take much) they melt super fast.

>

> I would prefer an NPC on each level 60 map with a mob that has a breakbar. The NPC can call out to players and explain what to do. The mob will be invulnerable to damage as long as its breakbar is intact. Breaking the breakbar kills or downs the mob and gives a small reward the first time its done but can be repeated as many times as the player wants.

 

The only problem with that is by level 60, most have learned to ignore the NPCs, or start finding the "press the button to complete arbitrary task" irritating that late in the game. The mechanic is introduced too late into the leveling process to be attached to the tutorials, and you can't rely on story missions to take its place since people can and often do skip them entirely. And you can't introduce it too early, because most classes don't have CCs until at least 15-20, nor can you use environmental weapons (which would had been the best overall solution, had it not been for the fact that players never grasped the concept well once it went into the game, and subsequently pulled from level design outside of tightly scripted events or puzzles).

 

Thats a knock on effect of the whole open world concept, when you have a universal mechanic bound to something so powerful that you don't give it to players until later sections of the game.

 

The only way to really fix this is to give indicators for Break bar damage as a clue.... but the damage floaters are already overloaded to the point where most players only take note of the magnitude of numbers, rather then their linked sources/properties. And damage types don't matter enough in-game, to lead to the conclusion that different damage types might be worth investigating against certain enemies. Animations are out of the question as well, since its too late in the design cycle to really add that to the huge catalog of enemies by hand.

 

A damage effect coupled with a UI indicator on related skills might work.... but thats more information stacked on all the things that already exist. Or maybe not.... What about adding "Break" in lieu of "Interrupt" floaters for Defiant enemies? The existing Color coding of the bar should actually make that association easier.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > Some bars decline with chill. Others don't. Same with cripple, slow, and other conditions.

> >

> > Some break bars regenerate over time. Others only regenerate after the are broken.

> >

> > Some break bars, when broken, have an effect that weakens the monster. Others make them more powerful.

> >

> > Some break bars require a high amount of breaking attacks, while others are relatively easy.

> >

> > Etc.

>

> you have a few outliers, (i only know one OW boss that requires chill) but in generall they all work the same.

>

 

We're not discussing just bosses; we're discussing break-bars. And, those aren't outliers; there are dozens of exceptions to the main "rules".

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> All they need to do is offer some fancy skin to entice players and lock it behind a personal instance that requires players to learn to deal with break bars otherwise it'd be impossible to succeed.

 

I like this idea. It would allow them to deal with all the different types of break-bars.

 

And, it might fit well with my idea of using different colored break-bars.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > Some bars decline with chill. Others don't. Same with cripple, slow, and other conditions.

> > >

> > > Some break bars regenerate over time. Others only regenerate after the are broken.

> > >

> > > Some break bars, when broken, have an effect that weakens the monster. Others make them more powerful.

> > >

> > > Some break bars require a high amount of breaking attacks, while others are relatively easy.

> > >

> > > Etc.

> >

> > you have a few outliers, (i only know one OW boss that requires chill) but in generall they all work the same.

> >

>

> We're not discussing just bosses; we're discussing break-bars. And, those aren't outliers; there are dozens of exceptions to the main "rules".

 

Where? I don't think it's intellectually to demanding that people will notice that cc bars are not functioning the same every time. It's about giving a general introduction. Not every mechanic in an instance or ow needs to be explained 100%. And that general intruduction is lacking or better, not there at all. It seams to be very confusing to be honest. I had a talk with 3 25k+ap players that thought you can only cc when the blue bar is gone.

[Briareos.1865]

I really wish they would show a number on breakbars and the amount of breakpoints given by the cc skill at the tooltips/description.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > Some bars decline with chill. Others don't. Same with cripple, slow, and other conditions.

> > > >

> > > > Some break bars regenerate over time. Others only regenerate after the are broken.

> > > >

> > > > Some break bars, when broken, have an effect that weakens the monster. Others make them more powerful.

> > > >

> > > > Some break bars require a high amount of breaking attacks, while others are relatively easy.

> > > >

> > > > Etc.

> > >

> > > you have a few outliers, (i only know one OW boss that requires chill) but in generall they all work the same.

> > >

> >

> > We're not discussing just bosses; we're discussing break-bars. And, those aren't outliers; there are dozens of exceptions to the main "rules".

>

> Where? I don't think it's intellectually to demanding that people will notice that cc bars are not functioning the same every time. It's about giving a general introduction. Not every mechanic in an instance or ow needs to be explained 100%. And that general intruduction is lacking or better, not there at all. It seams to be very confusing to be honest. I had a talk with 3 25k+ap players that thought you can only cc when the blue bar is gone.

 

All I can think of are bosses in dungeons, one of the boss of ac story can be knocked down even though he has a break bar, making knockdowns do 0 damage to his defiance

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > I'm quite simply tired of getting the "we didn't know what to do" excuse on breakbars,

> It's not an excuse. People who don't know something don't know that it's important. It's obvious to you; it's completely opaque to others.

 

Which makes a tutorial even more important. Also, a tutorial on target calling, because often people ignore called targets completely and the event fails (see false Joko event in the Jahai Bluffs).

 

 

[Devildoc.6721]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> All they need to do is offer some fancy skin to entice players and lock it behind a personal instance that requires players to learn to deal with break bars otherwise it'd be impossible to succeed.

 

No because there's still going to be the worst of the worst, the players who literally do not care about anything like that and plague events scaling them up and failing them for the entire map.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > Some bars decline with chill. Others don't. Same with cripple, slow, and other conditions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some break bars regenerate over time. Others only regenerate after the are broken.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some break bars, when broken, have an effect that weakens the monster. Others make them more powerful.

> > > > >

> > > > > Some break bars require a high amount of breaking attacks, while others are relatively easy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Etc.

> > > >

> > > > you have a few outliers, (i only know one OW boss that requires chill) but in generall they all work the same.

> > > >

> > >

> > > We're not discussing just bosses; we're discussing break-bars. And, those aren't outliers; there are dozens of exceptions to the main "rules".

> >

> > Where? I don't think it's intellectually to demanding that people will notice that cc bars are not functioning the same every time. It's about giving a general introduction. Not every mechanic in an instance or ow needs to be explained 100%. And that general intruduction is lacking or better, not there at all. It seams to be very confusing to be honest. I had a talk with 3 25k+ap players that thought you can only cc when the blue bar is gone.

>

> All I can think of are bosses in dungeons, one of the boss of ac story can be knocked down even though he has a break bar, making knockdowns do 0 damage to his defiance

 

Should all rather than one at least if you are tossing boulders. That is more of a historical artifact. In the beginning you can stunlock all those bosses by having two people toss boulders back and forth.

 

There is a similar thing with the boss of the underground fractal.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > All they need to do is offer some fancy skin to entice players and lock it behind a personal instance that requires players to learn to deal with break bars otherwise it'd be impossible to succeed.

>

> No because there's still going to be the worst of the worst, the players who literally do not care about anything like that and plague events scaling them up and failing them for the entire map.

 

you wanted this kind of content in open world, now deal with the consequenses

and this is the reason why other mmos dont do the same

[Devildoc.6721]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Devildoc.6721" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > All they need to do is offer some fancy skin to entice players and lock it behind a personal instance that requires players to learn to deal with break bars otherwise it'd be impossible to succeed.

> >

> > No because there's still going to be the worst of the worst, the players who literally do not care about anything like that and plague events scaling them up and failing them for the entire map.

>

> you wanted this kind of content in open world, now deal with the consequenses

> and this is the reason why other mmos dont do the same

 

I never said that, Anet said they wanted that, but Anet doesn't seem to appreciate just how lazy and ignorant their playerbase can be, and how many of them never try to improve themselves, never listen to instructions, and don't give a damn if they screw over dozens of other players for 2 hours at a time. The only way to make these players learn is to literally force them to do it.

 

Anet needs to decide, when their playerbase is filled with lazy casuals who won't even pay attention to chat to learn how to deal with a breakbar, to either.. make all the bosses 11111111111 zergfests that don't require any strategy so they can be done with open maps and a bunch of zombies like typically get, make the breakbars not scale so much so that the few people who actually give a damn and bring CC can successfully do it in the short amount of time given (often I can't get through more than 3, maybe 4 cc's tops personally before the window is gone, so iyou figure if you have 5 people each use 3 CC's that should be enough, don't expect everyone to bring multiple CC's because they quite simply don't. they don't care to learn strategies or improve themselves. You're punishing the people who actually do try by relying on those that don't to step up their game), or, make a tutorial that cannot be skipped, and halts progress until you complete it that everyone is forced to do to learn how to deal with breakbars.. Your choice or serpent's ire will continue to be dead forever and the joko interrupting event will for the most part, be given up on because it attracts too many people who don't bring necessary CC and scale it up.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> The starter instance wouldn’t be a good place for it as you only have skill one autoattack and heal.

>

> It’s best to remember also that the starter instance has players that have never played an mmo before. They are still learning how to move around and attack things. What to do with breakbars is to much information and should be a tutorial on a higher level map.

 

If only the very first newbie zone weren't changed to assume the players are all 4 year olds who cannot handle more than 2 buttons. :pensive:

 

But yeah I agree, it'd be a bad place where to explain this.

In fact, I'd say the game needs a better **overall** tutorial system. Explaining it once and then letting players forget it again doesn't help. It needs a way to intuitively show you. When a breakbar is up, dim out non-CC skills and flash those which are available and include CC, including highlighting the CC component (and in fact, listing the breakbar damage!) in the tooltip.