Could we have some PvE Reward Tracks?

[Gop.8713]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Gop.8713" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > Is this entire request about making Fossilized Insects and Dungeon Skins more available?

> >

> > Assume that it is. Do you have any objections to that request . . ?

>

> Yes, for two reasons:

> 1) As @"Ayrilana.1396" said adding these would lead to requests to add more in the future, opens up a can of worms, no idea how this would be handled

> 2) Wouldn't it be far better if those rewards became more easily available through their respective content? Like reduce the RNG needed for the Fossilized Insects? You don't need a party to get that reward, it's not even group content.

>

> About Dungeons, adding a separate way in PVE to get dungeon rewards would equal the removal of dungeons from the game. I don't have any data, so I don't know if there is anyone running these anymore, if they are indeed completely dead then adding reward tracks wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

So, in other words, no ;)

 

As to dungeons, I run them not as often as I'd like but occasionally -- just for funsies since obv I have the reward track for the unique rewards -- and I can tell you they are populated almost entirely by ppl using the xp to level alts . . .

[Purgatori.3645]

I think the reward tracks should stay exactly as they are, sorry. Our collections and achievements provide enough "reward tracks" as is.

 

If its not broken dont fix it :)

[IndigoSundown.5419]

WvW and sPvP reward tracks provide access to some otherwise PvE-only rewards. They don't provide everything one would need to get all PVE rewards. What if the inclusion of PvE reward tracks in those modes is a subtle (heck, maybe not-so-subtle) attempt to get competitive-play only players to do more PvE. ANet has certainly provided plenty of incentives (over the years) for PvE-only players to (at least) try the competitive modes.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Would be interesting if there was actually a specific shiny reward on a track you chose at the end. Map rewards is just the milestones of a Reward Track but not any goals.

Similarly there could be content in PvE that attracts a WvW and PvP crowd that isn't really content related. I'm surprised that the Daily Activities doesn't incorporate competitive rewards in some way.

[killermanjaro.5670]

> @"Tyncale.1629" said:

> So Dynamic Events could give you a small amount of Reward Track xp. Chests from Big Bosses could give a consumable that gives you Reward Track XP. That sort of thing.

.

 

Personally I think this would be bad for the game as it would result in the infestation of stacks of afk and botting necros and engis spreading even further across maps. Also I just generally don't think WvW reward type tracks are really required in PvE, I spend most of my time in open world PvE and rewards seem quite plentiful already.

[Tyncale.1629]

Thanks for the discussion, guys. I think one of the things I wanted to convey is how much I like the *concept* of the Reward Track. As a Feature. A bar that slowly fills up with themed rewards and lots of small rewards while working to the end reward. PvE players have a LOT of content, I will admit that for sure. But grinding is not always the way I want to spend an evening and it seems that Reward tracks could alleviate some of those grinds. And as said, I definately would only want to have Open World themed rewards in those tracks.

 

However I realize that one of Anet's primary objectives is, to keep *every* map current or active in some way. The currencies are a prime example (as mentioned), map rewards another (not so interesting) way, Bosses a third way and ultra rare loot a fourth (Ogre Wars anyone).

I applaud this, it is one of the things that GW2 has done a LOT better then for instance Everquest (an ancient MMO). :) However I am not totally convinced that a certain Reward Track would predict the death of a Map. Dry top is as dead as can be if not for the gw2community and theopencommunity weekly Dry Top runs. Would such a Reward track kill the map (or these activities) even more?

 

Could be. It seems something that Anet could research, I bet theay have lots of data about how players play and use the content and maps. I would even welcome a completely new PvE Reward track that would not be a threat to any map or content. I just like the concept a lot. And yes, as someone who likes to make a lot of Legendaries, I am very jealous of those PvP dwellers that must have those Mystic Clovers coming out of their ears. :)

 

Anyway, I like the feature but I do not want it to break any maps. However the argument of PvP players that " PvE players already have so much, and we only have our 4 tiny maps, and we can't do PvE" can go bite me. I have to do WvW for my leggies so you can come suck it up for those collections. :) Anyway, if they can add more content for PvE lovers without hurting PvP players, why not?

 

Added note: for instance, the Dry Top reward track (Maguuma Wastes track) gives you one fossilized insect and 300 geodes. I can get about the same amount of Geodes if I do a single run with gw2community(done that a lot). But the reward track would take me a lot longer to finish. So it would just be something extra towards those Dry Top themed rewards that would be running while you do other content. I do not see that kill the map or those community events. Other people will prefer to have another track running and instead do the Dry top community events for their geodes.

 

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Tyncale.1629" said:

> Thanks for the discussion, guys. I think one of the things I wanted to convey is how much I like the *concept* of the Reward Track. As a Feature. A bar that slowly fills up with themed rewards and lots of small rewards while working to the end reward. PvE players have a LOT of content, I will admit that for sure. But grinding is not always the way I want to spend an evening and it seems that Reward tracks could alleviate some of those grinds. And as said, I definately would only want to have Open World themed rewards in those tracks.

>

> However I realize that one of Anet's primary objectives is, to keep *every* map current or active in some way. The currencies are a prime example (as mentioned), map rewards another (not so interesting) way, Bosses a third way and ultra rare loot a fourth (Ogre Wars anyone).

> I applaud this, it is one of the things that GW2 has done a LOT better then for instance Everquest (an ancient MMO). :) However I am not totally convinced that a certain Reward Track would predict the death of a Map. Dry top is as dead as can be if not for the gw2community and theopencommunity weekly Dry Top runs. Would such a Reward track kill the map (or these activities) even more?

>

> Could be. It seems something that Anet could research, I bet theay have lots of data about how players play and use the content and maps. I would even welcome a completely new PvE Reward track that would not be a threat to any map or content. I just like the concept a lot. And yes, as someone who likes to make a lot of Legendaries, I am very jealous of those PvP dwellers that must have those Mystic Clovers coming out of their ears. :)

>

> Anyway, I like the feature but I do not want it to break any maps. However the argument of PvP players that " PvE players already have so much, and we only have our 4 tiny maps, and we can't do PvE" can go bite me. I have to do WvW for my leggies so you can come suck it up for those collections. :) Anyway, if they can add more content for PvE lovers without hurting PvP players, why not?

>

> Added note: for instance, the Dry Top reward track (Maguuma Wastes track) gives you one fossilized insect and 300 geodes. I can get about the same amount of Geodes if I do a single run with gw2community(done that a lot). But the reward track would take me a lot longer to finish. So it would just be something extra towards those Dry Top themed rewards that would be running while you do other content. I do not see that kill the map or those community events. Other people will prefer to have another track running and instead do the Dry top community events for their geodes.

>

 

WvW and pvp players have to do pve for gift of exploration. Which really cant be compared to 7.5hrs of wvw for a GoB. Use examples that are actually valid.

And the legendary is really the worst example you can use to strengthen your opinion. Even when precursor crafting, EVERY step is pve related.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

Would you be ok with gutting PvE drops/event rewards to add the track reward system that the PvP and WvW modes have? I ask because that is what it would take.

 

My feeling is that most PvE players would probably prefer their current loot rate over a reward track system.

[Zaoda.1653]

As a WvW'er, I must say, the only time I go do PvE stuff is for living story content and holiday events - and it's usually only to make money or to unlock new/unique skins. I just don't find the bosses in PvE very rewarding at all - you literally only get a few silver, and maybe a couple rares - that only sell for 10-14 silver each.

 

Sure, there is a one-in-a-million-chance of getting that new crystal infusion from the branded shatterer, but until players are actually rewarded for putting in the time and effort, and being rewarded eventually with a guaranteed drop after X number of kills - the current way the reward system is in PvE, isn't good enough.

 

For a while I've thought PvE seriously needs some sort of ongoing reward system - like reward tracks, so you have my full support.

[Tails.9372]

The WvW reward structure is a lot more engaging than the virtually non existing PvE ones so off course I'd love to see a similar system for PvE.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Tyncale.1629" said:

> So not really seeing why PvP players can simply enjoy their playstyle (roaming WvW, killing players, taking objectives) while having the possibility of earning pretty much every loot reward that PvE has to offer at the same time(exept collection stuff), while I have to grind certain PvE content till my eyes bleed for the same thing. Or repeat storylines Ad Nauseum.

 

Your reward track is picking the content you play.

 

Your Playstyle is PvE, you have many maps to enjoy and are rewarded appropriately. You want unbound magic, there are 5 maps. You want dungeon tokens? each Dungeon has at least 3 paths. Need some Elder wood? there are 20 maps to gather it on.

WvW players grind the same four maps for years, PvPers are in much the same boat.

 

If you don't realize this, then all you are doing is asking for another layer of reward. Which PvE quite simply does not need.

[BlueJin.4127]

I love OP's idea. I love it when games give players multiple ways to get a specific reward. :smile:

 

Also, PVE is too broad with different types of PVE players, so it's meaningless to generalize and group together all PVE players. I'm an open world PVE player who loves exploring worlds. I don't enjoy raids, dungeons, or anything that requires nothing but repetitive fighting for a long time with zero exploration. If an item is, for example, only available through raids, then it means absolutely nothing to me that it's "available to PVE players." I'm not that type of PVE player. I'd rather do WvW than PVE raids since WvW actually has some exploration elements.

 

Plus, these groups are just preferences, not actual limitations. PVE is not an account type that WvW players are locked out of, meaning PVE reward tracks are not required for WvW players to get PVE rewards. A PVE reward track is just a convenience so WvW players can get PVE rewards they want, without doing the PVE stuff they don't want to do. So, for example, if a WvW player can get a PVE reward track that rewards PVE raid items, there' no reason why an open world PVE player should not be allowed a reward track that rewards PVE raid items.

[Neutra.6857]

I am not sure I want the reward track like you are talking about. However there are certain rewards I think that should be easier to get in PvE or that should be available in PvE. For instance I think legacy armor should be available in PvE but many of them are not. Another example re some of the PoF armors. In PvE you either have to get really lucky with a drop or craft the thing, and the recipes are expensive. Meanwhile you can simply choose the right reward track in PvP or WvW and get those armors.

[Khisanth.2948]

The obvious starting point of something like this would be eliminating nearly all other forms of loot from PvE unless you are greedy enough to want to double dip. Could be an optional mode you could toggle maybe.

[Rfreak.6591]

It's true that technically these exist in some form in PvE, but the system could definitely see some polish, I would personally welcome any kind of streamlining/standardization of systems because, why not if we could? It's also much less confusing than what we have in PvE tbh.

 

I also can't stress enough about the tediousness of forcing PvE players into PvP or WvW or Raids or vice versa, seriously, I hated every moment in WvW to get that bloody Gift of Battle for my Frostfang, and I'm dreading at the thought of doing it again for my next legendary (which is closing in).

 

I give a lot of value to the time I spend playing, I think everyone should re-evaluate just how much time they spend doing activities they don't wanna do in videogames, it's something that really matters to me, forcing players into game modes they share nothing with is just brutal.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Rfreak.6591" said:

> It's true that technically these exist in some form in PvE, but the system could definitely see some polish, I would personally welcome any kind of streamlining/standardization of systems because, why not if we could? It's also much less confusing than what we have in PvE tbh.

>

> I also can't stress enough about the tediousness of forcing PvE players into PvP or WvW or Raids or vice versa, seriously, I hated every moment in WvW to get that bloody Gift of Battle for my Frostfang, and I'm dreading at the thought of doing it again for my next legendary (which is closing in).

>

> I give a lot of value to the time I spend playing, I think everyone should re-evaluate just how much time they spend doing activities they don't wanna do in videogames, it's something that really matters to me, forcing players into game modes they share nothing with is just brutal.

 

For the 100th time, each wvw or pvp player HAS to do map completion. Which is waaaaaay worse than a GoB in terms of time and tediousness. Those players, too, value their time. If a pvp or wvw player can stand to do 303 renowned hearts, plus all PoI and HoT or PoF maps, you can for certain endure 6ish - 7.5 hours of semi-afking (or following a zerg) in wvw for a GoB.

Lets face it. Pve has the most rewards. It is players from other modes that need to do stuff they dont like in pve, than pvers have to do in other modes.

[Rfreak.6591]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> For the 100th time, each wvw or pvp player HAS to do map completion. Which is waaaaaay worse than a GoB in terms of time and tediousness. Those players, too, value their time. If a pvp or wvw player can stand to do 303 renowned hearts, plus all PoI and HoT or PoF maps, you can for certain endure 6ish - 7.5 hours of semi-afking (or following a zerg) in wvw for a GoB.

> Lets face it. Pve has the most rewards. It is players from other modes that need to do stuff they dont like in pve, than pvers have to do in other modes.

 

Well, I just said it from my own perspective, ofc it could work the other way around too, though there is a similar system already up, just like the Hero Points that get unlocked randomly we could have hearts and stuff unlocked like that too.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

Another issue, that I forgot to add, in adding the reward tracks in PVE is the economy, imagine all that influx of new exotic dungeon gear. I mean, you play World Boss events and get a guaranteed rare, now you will play a couple events in Queensdale farming moa and you will get Exotic weapons/armor. Not to mention the tokens that come from the tracks, which allow you to buy further items. This could cause a mass influx of new exotic items with terrible effects.

 

If reward tracks were ever considered for PVE, they'd need to offer **only** skins, not full items, no gold, no materials, PVE players already get tons of those, while for PVP/WVW players that's a large percentage of their total rewards. The alternative would be to remove rewards from the rest of the game and reward players only through these reward tracks, but that would be silly.

[Rfreak.6591]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Another issue, that I forgot to add, in adding the reward tracks in PVE is the economy, imagine all that influx of new exotic dungeon gear. I mean, you play World Boss events and get a guaranteed rare, now you will play a couple events in Queensdale farming moa and you will get Exotic weapons/armor. Not to mention the tokens that come from the tracks, which allow you to buy further items. This could cause a mass influx of new exotic items with terrible effects.

>

> If reward tracks were ever considered for PVE, they'd need to offer **only** skins, not full items, no gold, no materials, PVE players already get tons of those, while for PVP/WVW players that's a large percentage of their total rewards. The alternative would be to remove rewards from the rest of the game and reward players only through these reward tracks, but that would be silly.

 

Well, no1 said it had to be the same tracks, also, they could give account/soul bound exotics or dungeon currency for that matter, also, you already can't trade dungeon exotics.

Also, there already are reward tracks, it's just they are very underwhelming atm, not even worth grinding for'em.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Rfreak.6591" said:

> Well, no1 said it had to be the same tracks, also, they could give account/soul bound exotics or dungeon currency for that matter, also, you already can't trade dungeon exotics.

 

Dungeons gear is already bound when you get it. But you can salvage them and certain stat combinations (those that can't be crafted) have a chance to give you insignia/inscriptions that actually sell for a good amount of gold. Not to mention globs of ectoplasm and other materials. Combining these with the rewards you already have from PVE (remember these are supposed to be ON TOP of what we currently have) and you can see the problem. If they give you all this gold/materials for free (because it's from content you are already doing), the rewards from these need to be balanced with the rest of PVE (remove other rewards/reduce considerably)

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Rfreak.6591" said:

> Also, there already are reward tracks, it's just they are very underwhelming atm, not even worth grinding for'em.

The whole point of them is to just give you a bit of a bonus, not to grind for them. If you take a look at how ANet has built this game over the years, they're actively working towards the point where players don't feel pressured into grinding specific stuff but instead get a bit here and there all over the place, so no matter what they play it'll lead them towards their goal, whatever that is.

 

The point of sPvP and WvW reward tracks is to enable those players to gather resources towards whatever goals they have (skin collections, crafting materials, etc.) at a rate similar to PvE players. PvE already has a ton of rewards, especially if you compare it to sPvP/WvW without reward tracks, and your choice of where and what kind of content to play allows you to influence the rewards you get (map currencies, specific region skins, etc.).

 

Reward tracks in sPvP and WvW are trying to emulate the choice of area to play in and rewards to earn that PvE players have. They aren't made to and (for the most part) don't put the pvp crowd at an advantage loot-wise compared to PvE players. On the contrary, in most cases PvE is still the easiest way to gather whatever shiny you are after, and a lot of stuff can't even be gotten in the pvp modes (legendaries, collection reward skins, minis, etc).

 

If there is "dead" PvE content in the game, then making that content even more obsolete by dropping the materials in other PvE content of choice isn't the way to go. That way you could just cut those maps/events/whatever out of the game right away. I highly doubt that ANet will go and kill their own content that way.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Tyncale.1629" said:

> Thanks for the discussion, guys. I think one of the things I wanted to convey is how much I like the *concept* of the Reward Track. As a Feature. A bar that slowly fills up with themed rewards and lots of small rewards while working to the end reward. PvE players have a LOT of content, I will admit that for sure. But grinding is not always the way I want to spend an evening and it seems that Reward tracks could alleviate some of those grinds. And as said, I definately would only want to have Open World themed rewards in those tracks.

>

> However I realize that one of Anet's primary objectives is, to keep *every* map current or active in some way. The currencies are a prime example (as mentioned), map rewards another (not so interesting) way, Bosses a third way and ultra rare loot a fourth (Ogre Wars anyone).

> I applaud this, it is one of the things that GW2 has done a LOT better then for instance Everquest (an ancient MMO). :) However I am not totally convinced that a certain Reward Track would predict the death of a Map. Dry top is as dead as can be if not for the gw2community and theopencommunity weekly Dry Top runs. Would such a Reward track kill the map (or these activities) even more?

>

> Could be. It seems something that Anet could research, I bet theay have lots of data about how players play and use the content and maps. I would even welcome a completely new PvE Reward track that would not be a threat to any map or content. I just like the concept a lot. And yes, as someone who likes to make a lot of Legendaries, I am very jealous of those PvP dwellers that must have those Mystic Clovers coming out of their ears. :)

>

> Anyway, I like the feature but I do not want it to break any maps. However the argument of PvP players that " PvE players already have so much, and we only have our 4 tiny maps, and we can't do PvE" can go bite me. I have to do WvW for my leggies so you can come suck it up for those collections. :) Anyway, if they can add more content for PvE lovers without hurting PvP players, why not?

>

> Added note: for instance, the Dry Top reward track (Maguuma Wastes track) gives you one fossilized insect and 300 geodes. I can get about the same amount of Geodes if I do a single run with gw2community(done that a lot). But the reward track would take me a lot longer to finish. So it would just be something extra towards those Dry Top themed rewards that would be running while you do other content. I do not see that kill the map or those community events. Other people will prefer to have another track running and instead do the Dry top community events for their geodes.

>

 

TLDR: You want more loot.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"BlueJin.4127" said:

> I love OP's idea. I love it when games give players multiple ways to get a specific reward. :smile:

>

> Also, PVE is too broad with different types of PVE players, so it's meaningless to generalize and group together all PVE players. I'm an open world PVE player who loves exploring worlds. I don't enjoy raids, dungeons, or anything that requires nothing but repetitive fighting for a long time with zero exploration. If an item is, for example, only available through raids, then it means absolutely nothing to me that it's "available to PVE players." I'm not that type of PVE player. I'd rather do WvW than PVE raids since WvW actually has some exploration elements.

>

> Plus, these groups are just preferences, not actual limitations. PVE is not an account type that WvW players are locked out of, meaning PVE reward tracks are not required for WvW players to get PVE rewards. A PVE reward track is just a convenience so WvW players can get PVE rewards they want, without doing the PVE stuff they don't want to do. So, for example, if a WvW player can get a PVE reward track that rewards PVE raid items, there' no reason why an open world PVE player should not be allowed a reward track that rewards PVE raid items.

 

There are actually reasons why open world PvE does not allow open world PvE players to get raid items. I suspect you will not _like_ them, but the reasons exist.

 

+ Exclusive rewards are part of the genre construct of raids. In the minds of raid-oriented players, the two are inseparable. Putting in raids without exclusive rewards would have been a waste of developer effort as those rewards are the means to prompt repetitive play.

+ ANet has decided that player versus environment play is a single game mode. You need look no further than daily tasks to see proof of that. Since shortly after launch, when the forums were flooded with complaints about no rewards to "work" for, ANet has used rewards to draw players into the content they present. Their _only_ concessions to exclusive play preferences (I don't want to play that content) have been for players who prefer one or both of the competitive game modes. That is consistent with their original advertising of the game as having three distinct modes. It is only players who draw distinctions between types of PvE play, not ANet.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"BlueJin.4127" said:

> > I love OP's idea. I love it when games give players multiple ways to get a specific reward. :smile:

> >

> > Also, PVE is too broad with different types of PVE players, so it's meaningless to generalize and group together all PVE players. I'm an open world PVE player who loves exploring worlds. I don't enjoy raids, dungeons, or anything that requires nothing but repetitive fighting for a long time with zero exploration. If an item is, for example, only available through raids, then it means absolutely nothing to me that it's "available to PVE players." I'm not that type of PVE player. I'd rather do WvW than PVE raids since WvW actually has some exploration elements.

> >

> > Plus, these groups are just preferences, not actual limitations. PVE is not an account type that WvW players are locked out of, meaning PVE reward tracks are not required for WvW players to get PVE rewards. A PVE reward track is just a convenience so WvW players can get PVE rewards they want, without doing the PVE stuff they don't want to do. So, for example, if a WvW player can get a PVE reward track that rewards PVE raid items, there' no reason why an open world PVE player should not be allowed a reward track that rewards PVE raid items.

>

> There are actually reasons why open world PvE does not allow open world PvE players to get raid items. I suspect you will not _like_ them, but the reasons exist.

>

> + Exclusive rewards are part of the genre construct of raids. In the minds of raid-oriented players, the two are inseparable. Putting in raids without exclusive rewards would have been a waste of developer effort as those rewards are the means to prompt repetitive play.

> + ANet has decided that player versus environment play is a single game mode. You need look no further than daily tasks to see proof of that. Since shortly after launch, when the forums were flooded with complaints about no rewards to "work" for, ANet has used rewards to draw players into the content they present. Their _only_ concessions to exclusive play preferences (I don't want to play that content) have been for players who prefer one or both of the competitive game modes. That is consistent with their original advertising of the game as having three distinct modes. It is only players who draw distinctions between types of PvE play, not ANet.

 

the distinction exists since the dawn of any MMO, al they're doing is ignoring it and comb them one way, not seeing the difference.

also, if i have to "work" for rewards it's not worth doing, i play games to relax _after_ work so i don't have to do that.

[Rfreak.6591]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> The whole point of them is to just give you a bit of a bonus, not to grind for them. If you take a look at how ANet has built this game over the years, they're actively working towards the point where players don't feel pressured into grinding specific stuff but instead get a bit here and there all over the place, so no matter what they play it'll lead them towards their goal, whatever that is.

>

> The point of sPvP and WvW reward tracks is to enable those players to gather resources towards whatever goals they have (skin collections, crafting materials, etc.) at a rate similar to PvE players. PvE already has a ton of rewards, especially if you compare it to sPvP/WvW without reward tracks, and your choice of where and what kind of content to play allows you to influence the rewards you get (map currencies, specific region skins, etc.).

>

> Reward tracks in sPvP and WvW are trying to emulate the choice of area to play in and rewards to earn that PvE players have. They aren't made to and (for the most part) don't put the pvp crowd at an advantage loot-wise compared to PvE players. On the contrary, in most cases PvE is still the easiest way to gather whatever shiny you are after, and a lot of stuff can't even be gotten in the pvp modes (legendaries, collection reward skins, minis, etc).

>

> If there is "dead" PvE content in the game, then making that content even more obsolete by dropping the materials in other PvE content of choice isn't the way to go. That way you could just cut those maps/events/whatever out of the game right away. I highly doubt that ANet will go and kill their own content that way.

 

I get that, I think we should focus on the -why this isn't working as is right now- then, lemme put some down off the top of my head:

 

-Reward tracks are core-Tyria only, I think this ends up being a bit confusing, especially seeing how PoF rewards have been standardized with the unidentified items.

-The PvE bar progression is unclear as to how it fills and, as far as I can remember (I haven't been in core-Tyria much lately) you can't actually check the progress bar like in wvw, can you? It can be rather confusing.

-Reward tracks are per map, which means that if I wanted to grind a specific item safely I would be stuck in a map of choice as you mentioned, which it shouldn't be the way to go.

-Each dedicated game mode has something other game mode users envy and usually end up having to soldier through to get what they wanted without enjoying it much. (I too would have liked to get my hands on the tribal light skins, though it's been so much time I've moved on to even better mix match, now I'd only kind of want the Sublime Mistforged Triumphant Hero chests).

-I can honestly say that I'm solely interested in what I couldn't find in my own game mode, which is skins, which are awarded solely at the end of the tracks.

 

Perhaps a way to solve the loot problem would be "mutating" tracks, now, usually tracks award smaller filler items that may be whatever and a big "end-of-track" item which is really your goal, so how about this, in PvE -smaller- rewards could be materials, (now, I'm not saying lodestones, just whatever the devs felt balanced tbh, a filler to replace the-keep reading) while PvP/WvW -smaller- rewards could be tickets of sorts that could only be spent in pvp OR whatever the pvp/wvw community would deem worth since I'm not really into those game modes, your pick, I mean, you did mention exploration's a drag but there are other resources you may want in those modes, I think pvp-wvw-ers need options then, not pvers, hence tickets that could be spent to unlock HPs or hearts alike.

In order to avoid people grindin in PvE and switching to PvP/WvW to get their reward we'd have to remove pips and award items at the end of the single pip/reworked-bar.

Also, to add to the deserted maps argument, we could say that's also worth mentioning in WvW outnumbered matches in a way, maybe we could get boosts scaling on the difference? It'd balance PvE rewards because:

-case 1: less, harder events grant more loot less often

-case 2: more, faster events grant less loot more often

 

 

Do you think that'd be fair?