Exhaustion as a new mechanic

[Ruufio.1496]

We need this "new" mechanic to be implemented as a class-wide feature, in the same way that dodge is available to all classes. We need this because 6 years of powercreep has taken away all skill from the game¿ The better solution is to simply nerf everything rather than constantly introduce arbitrary mechanics (marked debuff causing reveal) but we all know that's not going to happen.

 

Ridiculous scenarios such as the following are why exhaustion needs to become a mechanic:

 

-Full Berserker Stats Thief

-Pistol whip (spammable evasion)

-Withdraw (evade)

-Sigil of Energy (restore 50% endurance on weapon swap)

-Ãdventurer runes (restore 50% endurance when healing)

-Endurance Thief (restore 25% endurance when stealing)

-Sleight of Hand (reduces recharge on steal)

-Lead Attacks (reduces recharge on steal)

-Instant Reflexes (passive evade at 50% health)

-Hard to Catch (restores 100% endurance when CC'd)

-Feline Grace and Endless Stamina (permanent endurance recovery boost)

-Brawlers Tenacity (restore 10% endurance when using physical skill)

-Dagger Storm (evade)

 

And then there's pretty much any combination of utilities and weapon swap to amplify things even more. I can comfortably say that I've never lost to a skilled thief since HoT or PoF - every iteration of the thief has been broken in some way or another since launch. Other classes have this problem as well, although to a lesser degree. An example of another ridiculous build is the evasion spam condition ranger with troll unguent that you will never catch or kill.

 

How to implement exhaustion:

Each skill that grants evasion also inflicts an amount of exhaustion to endurance recovery .

100% is maximum exhaustion AKA no endurance recovery.

 

Very few abilities should inflict 100% exhaustion. Abilities such as elusive mind or hard to catch are such abilities. Examples:

- Withdraw now inflicts 10% exhaustion.

- Pistol Whip now inflicts 10% exhaustion.

- Hard to Catch now inflicts 100% exhaustion.

 

And this in turn allows arenanet to change some skill functionality:

- Sigil of Stamina (warrior) Passive: Immune to exhaustion. Active: Restore all endurance but inflicts 50% exhaustion.

- Elixir R (engineer) Gain immunity to exhaustion, gain vigor and restore 50% endurance.

 

There is zero counterplay to evasion spam currently. Not even weakness because... you cannot hit them in the first place! And nowadays evading an attack removes the weakness anyway. The counter to evasion spam is that it needs to counter itself.

 

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> We need this "new" mechanic to be implemented as a class-wide feature, in the same way that dodge is available to all classes. We need this because 6 years of powercreep has taken away all skill from the game

Am I reading this right?

You feel that "skill" has been taken away from the game so you want to reduce free movement and control over your character more?

Isn't "skill" all about reactive button pushing (muscle memory) and you want to give the players less access to their buttons?

Something does not add up here.

 

 

[sephiroth.4217]

TLDR: Nerf Thief and Weaver.

[Ruufio.1496]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> TLDR: Nerf Thief and Weaver.

 

Ya basically

[Strider Pj.2193]

Not a word about stealth. Now that stealth is nerfed.. thief too stronkz. Careful what you ask for.

[Ruufio.1496]

The only complaints that I have about stealth are, naturally, about thieeeeeef wew! Because they are the one with broken mechanics. And those complaints are the ability to remove the reveal debuff, which is quite _literally_ removing counterplay and that stealth attacks do not cause (any class) to be revealed if proccing an opponents aegis or removing blind by whiffing an attack. Stealth was actually relatively fine other than a few specifics.

[Justine.6351]

My idea was inverse of yours,

Convert all non-profession +endurance gain to vigor instead.

 

Your concept isn't unproven though, it's basically what is in ESO afaik.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> TLDR: Nerf Thief and Weaver.

 

I have no idea which class should receive the "most hated class in this game" award, but something tells me it's either Mesmers or Thieves.

 

 

[Voltekka.2375]

Give holosmith exhaustion.

[getalifeturd.8139]

**new mechanic**

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind

 

Why is people timing evades on a class with 11k health a problem for you? Perhaps they should add exhaustion to classes whenever they use an invulnerability or block? Or maybe exhaustion every time they gain a boon to punish mindless spam?

[Isle of Stars.3049]

> @"getalifeturd.8139" said:

> **new mechanic**

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind

>

> Why is people timing evades on a class with 11k health a problem for you? Perhaps they should add exhaustion to classes whenever they use an invulnerability or block? Or maybe exhaustion every time they gain a boon to punish mindless spam?

 

Because playing PvP with brains turned off is more convenient than learning how Thieves' evade frames work.

[Riko.9214]

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> [text before] not going to happen. [text after]

That part in the middle makes sense.

[Widmo.3186]

Oh boi, another kitty lost to a thief because he doesn't know dodge timings and cannot land any hit.

You have an engi avatar, please tell me that you lost vs thief as Holo, known as worst ingame specialization without any kind of sustain, damage and utility skills.

New mechanic - > 5hp, stick as weapon, 1 dodge, every hit deals 1 damage.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> We need this "new" mechanic to be implemented as a class-wide feature, in the same way that dodge is available to all classes. We need this because 6 years of powercreep has taken away all skill from the game.

 

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

>I can comfortably say that I've never lost to a skilled thief since HoT or PoF

 

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> There is zero counterplay to evasion spam currently.

 

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > TLDR: Nerf Thief and Weaver.

>

> Ya basically

 

Riiiiiiiiight.

[Ruufio.1496]

> @"Isle of Stars.3049" said:

> > @"getalifeturd.8139" said:

> > **new mechanic**

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind

> >

> > Why is people timing evades on a class with 11k health a problem for you? Perhaps they should add exhaustion to classes whenever they use an invulnerability or block? Or maybe exhaustion every time they gain a boon to punish mindless spam?

>

> Because playing PvP with brains turned off is more convenient than learning how Thieves' evade frames work.

 

And spamming evades is more convenient than learning what skills to actually dodge.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

> @"Ruufio.1496" said:

> > @"Isle of Stars.3049" said:

> > > @"getalifeturd.8139" said:

> > > **new mechanic**

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant

> > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind

> > >

> > > Why is people timing evades on a class with 11k health a problem for you? Perhaps they should add exhaustion to classes whenever they use an invulnerability or block? Or maybe exhaustion every time they gain a boon to punish mindless spam?

> >

> > Because playing PvP with brains turned off is more convenient than learning how Thieves' evade frames work.

>

> And spamming evades is more convenient than learning what skills to actually dodge.

 

There's no way for them to actually spam evades, man. I thought you'll join the "stealth OP plz nerf" bandwagon but then again I'm surprised that someone still complains about Thief dodges. Lol

[kash.9213]

Acro/Trickery/Daredevil with sword/pistol and Daggerstorm sounds like a bland ass build to play.

[Ydeirt.3905]

Basically you just wanna add a mechanic that just don't work in non-stamina based game? I don't know if you're trying to copy other games, afaik ESO have this because they have stamina mechanic that you can use to spam dodge. But here you can only use 2x dodge in row before it goes on cooldown hence the "exhaustion" if you didn't notice. Some classes have vigor as part of their trait because that's how they meant to be played. You're expecting squishy/low hp pool class to have less defense for easy kill when there are so many skill that have reflect and mitigate damage?

I think this is a case of L2P.

I've fought a lot of thief and weaver, haven't got much issue. Only a bit annoyed when they use gimmick build or endless stealth but overall its not too bad.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the only way to put exhaustion on things is to only apply it to obviously op traits. you cant just start tacking it onto whatever you think is stronk and expect it to help.

[Warkind.6745]

This 'class wide' implementation of exhaustion would be perfect if thief was the only class in the game.

 

Maybe people would take this more seriously if you added examples of incoming exhaustion from more than one class.