So I guess this is the meta now?

[Acyk.9671]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> Would you guys be more open to a faster changing meta, or something more of a dynamic middle ground (if there is even such a thing possible)?

 

Not really. I want Anet to fix what is OP in the game at a much faster rater but once it's done, it can stay the same way until next expac. Changing meta often is imo more for pvp. That's why people ask for game mode split. Before last patch everything was too Op, which made meta balanced but not fun. Now that support has been nerfed, Anet need to nerf damage (rev/ weaver/ scourge), otherwise it ends up being a range war and people hate that. It's simple, people just want to play their melee spec in melee and their range spec at range, kinda like it was in vanilla before the pirate ship meta.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

 

Yes it was, i loved pre hot with old stab.

Blasting water and firefields, calling out hammerstuns like monkeys, not staring at your enemy until one side has lost 5 ppl and retreats. Not dying in literally 0.5 seconds because you lost all your boons and got stuck in a bomb for a millisecond

 

Less dmg overall and maybe less boon output etc, just tone down the kittenfest that wvw zerging is and has been for the longest time

[LetoII.3782]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > > Because hammer stun train was so fun, right?

> >

> > It was more fun than the scourge train :/

>

> I disagree. Way less builds were viable.

 

Way less builds were present as well.

The game got streamlined a lot in the leadup to HoT

[Israel.7056]

Typical comp is hybrid now

[Kovu.7560]

30% Scourge,

20% Firebrand,

20% Rev,

10% Ele,

10% Chrono

 

... is roughly about what I'm used to seeing these days. Bubbles are surprisingly hard to come by.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> 30% Scourge,

> 20% Firebrand,

> 20% Rev,

> 10% Ele,

> 10% Chrono

>

> ... is roughly about what I'm used to seeing these days. Bubbles are surprisingly hard to come by.

 

Bubble might as well not exist at this point. Long cast followed by a 1s activation time makes it very difficult to land.

 

Chrono doesn't offer much either, just veil, pull, and grav well. Portal if you're running a small squad. Boon chrono adds nothing to double Rev comp except alacrity, and that unreliably. They're also really bad damage unless it's picking someone off who isn't near tag

[Kovu.7560]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > 30% Scourge,

> > 20% Firebrand,

> > 20% Rev,

> > 10% Ele,

> > 10% Chrono

> >

> > ... is roughly about what I'm used to seeing these days. Bubbles are surprisingly hard to come by.

>

> Bubble might as well not exist at this point. Long cast followed by a 1s activation time makes it very difficult to land.

>

> Chrono doesn't offer much either, just veil, pull, and grav well. Portal if you're running a small squad. Boon chrono adds nothing to double Rev comp except alacrity, and that unreliably. They're also really bad damage unless it's picking someone off who isn't near tag

 

I find tags I follow still try to utilize 1-2 chronos for the utilities you mentioned. An issue is not many people want to play mesmer, its much easier to contribute/tag in large fights with all of the other (listed) professions. Its certainly a turnaround from the small scale scene, where 40% of roamers are mesmers.

 

~ Kovu

[Jski.6180]

10% weavers maybe a bit too high of a number lol. Weaver is fun but you only need 1 or 2 in a group they are massive liability revs are able to dps on the same level and are much less punished for doing so.

 

I find the meta is 3 classes and 1 elite skill. Scorge FB rev, and winds of destruction. Out side of this you have leased use effects and classes to throw ppl off.

 

The meta is in a very boring state its not fun to use and its not fun to play vs it. The last balancing patch only made things worst.

[Kaiser.9873]

Pirate ship is junk, but so was boon share, and condi bomb. Hammer train was more fun, because at the time the fights lasted longer. Melee ball with pick group was fun as well as ranged were able to branch out a bit.

 

Metas that encouraged engagements are more fun than maneuvering for a choke, or simply staring at each other until one side gets so bored they push or leave.

[Israel.7056]

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> Pirate ship is junk, but so was boon share, and condi bomb. Hammer train was more fun, because at the time the fights lasted longer. Melee ball with pick group was fun as well as ranged were able to branch out a bit.

>

> Metas that encouraged engagements are more fun than maneuvering for a choke, or simply staring at each other until one side gets so bored they push or leave.

 

I will never understand this nostalgia for pre hot hammer train meta. Go back and watch videos from that time even the best guilds from back then would be one push material playing like that now.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Kaiser.9873" said:

> Pirate ship is junk, but so was boon share, and condi bomb. Hammer train was more fun, because at the time the fights lasted longer. Melee ball with pick group was fun as well as ranged were able to branch out a bit.

>

> Metas that encouraged engagements are more fun than maneuvering for a choke, or simply staring at each other until one side gets so bored they push or leave.

 

Pirate ship is mandatory, due Anet "competence" on class and skill design, they need to make game range aoe fest so casuals can be efficient as well.

Gw2 is a awfull pvp game, expect more pirate ship and more range spam on next expantion, next elites need to be better than PoF to make players want them.

[juno.1840]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> 10% weavers maybe a bit too high of a number lol. Weaver is fun but you only need 1 or 2 in a group they are massive liability revs are able to dps on the same level and are much less punished for doing so.

>

> I find the meta is 3 classes and 1 elite skill. Scorge FB rev, and winds of destruction. Out side of this you have leased use effects and classes to throw ppl off.

>

> The meta is in a very boring state its not fun to use and its not fun to play vs it. The last balancing patch only made things worst.

 

He said "ele" not "weaver". I'm seeing more support tempests after the nerf to chrono boon-share. The tempests can puke out boons, utility auras, and CC -- all while healing good amounts.

[Israel.7056]

I feel like you guys have forgotten how boring and easy the pre hot melee ball GWEN meta was. There were so many fewer things you had to get right back then.

 

Like earthshaker was fun don't get me wrong but today's meta is so much lower margin for error it's way more fun to play imo.

[Infusion.7149]

Definitely:

1 **Scourge** : barrier (especially with Desert Empowerment but Sand Cascade is on 10 cooldown), condi conversion to boons (Nefarious Favor is 5s cooldown), boon corrupt, power DPS ... it's the most played since POF , damage isn't capped per time interval unlike with CoR

--- I've seen reapers but far less (usually Reaper's Onslaught + Death Perception)

2 **Firebrand** : stability (now with elite mantra and tome), heals, unbroken lines (200 toughness makes _Strength in numbers_ look bad most of the time) , Eternal Oasis (20% heal) amplifies scrapper rapid regen and tome heals, reflect

--- mace+shield typical

3 **Herald** : 10-man perma fury, hammer CoR + power DPS, swiftness for scourges, superspeed (elite) , -50% damage dwarf legend RotGD

 

In fewer numbers by people that know them well...

4 Tempest/Weaver : meteor (especially for siege), fireball for cannons , there's a huge ferocity bonus in air traitline or these would be more or less obsolete after Elements of rage and lava font nerfs

5 Spellbreaker: bubble+break enchantments , even after Full counter nerfs

6 chrono : veil/portal/grav well , mantra for stability

7 scrapper: condi conversion, regen , projectile absorbing bubble from bulwark gyro

 

Generally very few...

condi mirage : roamers very often are mirage but few in zergs due to condi cleansing

deadeye/daredevil : backline harassment but mostly roamers

soulbeast: roaming mostly , haven't seen stanceshare in parties

holo: mostly roamers

druid: very often roamers using it only for celestial avatar

 

If you look at most larger groups and tab through them it is easily half scourges for damage.

[TokenG.7863]

> @"Israel.7056" said:

> I feel like you guys have forgotten how boring and easy the pre hot melee ball GWEN meta was. There were so many fewer things you had to get right back then.

>

> Like earthshaker was fun don't get me wrong but today's meta is so much lower margin for error it's way more fun to play imo.

 

I guess that's what they mean when Anet said "More Rewarding Gameplay".

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this is the **rewards** meta. enjoy or die.

[Jski.6180]

> @"juno.1840" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > 10% weavers maybe a bit too high of a number lol. Weaver is fun but you only need 1 or 2 in a group they are massive liability revs are able to dps on the same level and are much less punished for doing so.

> >

> > I find the meta is 3 classes and 1 elite skill. Scorge FB rev, and winds of destruction. Out side of this you have leased use effects and classes to throw ppl off.

> >

> > The meta is in a very boring state its not fun to use and its not fun to play vs it. The last balancing patch only made things worst.

>

> He said "ele" not "weaver". I'm seeing more support tempests after the nerf to chrono boon-share. The tempests can puke out boons, utility auras, and CC -- all while healing good amounts.

 

No its weaver he talking about staff dmg weaver it has a very small places. Tempest has NO places nor dose core ele. Tempest was never in competition with chrono for boons-share because chrono was sharing out much stronger boons and making FB support stronger. Tempest was competing with revs (who are doing dmg) for the same type of boons at 10 targets and perma level were most of tempest boons are 5 and far from perma.

 

Tempest is the saddest of classes.

[juno.1840]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"juno.1840" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > 10% weavers maybe a bit too high of a number lol. Weaver is fun but you only need 1 or 2 in a group they are massive liability revs are able to dps on the same level and are much less punished for doing so.

> > >

> > > I find the meta is 3 classes and 1 elite skill. Scorge FB rev, and winds of destruction. Out side of this you have leased use effects and classes to throw ppl off.

> > >

> > > The meta is in a very boring state its not fun to use and its not fun to play vs it. The last balancing patch only made things worst.

> >

> > He said "ele" not "weaver". I'm seeing more support tempests after the nerf to chrono boon-share. The tempests can puke out boons, utility auras, and CC -- all while healing good amounts.

>

> No its weaver he talking about staff dmg weaver it has a very small places. Tempest has NO places nor dose core ele. Tempest was never in competition with chrono for boons-share because chrono was sharing out much stronger boons and making FB support stronger. Tempest was competing with revs (who are doing dmg) for the same type of boons at 10 targets and perma level were most of tempest boons are 5 and far from perma.

>

> Tempest is the saddest of classes.

 

You're claiming facts where there are none:

 

* "he talking about staff dmg weaver" -- Kovu never said anything about staff, damage, or weaver

* "Chrono was sharing out much stronger boons" -- not any more, I'm living in the present, so should you

* "Tempest was competing with revs for same type of boons" -- the closest thing to a fact you said, but not 100% accurate

 

You also disregarded my other points about healing and utility. Regardless, different guilds run different comps and, as I said, I'm seeing more support/utility tempests on my server.

 

[messiah.1908]

regarding numbers

 

usually for 20 man squad

1 FB in each team (if not guildies its hard to finds)

1 power backline rev in most groups

 

so its 20% FB and power backline rev

2 SB so 10%

1 mesmer so 5%

1 scrapper or healing ventari (me) 5%

rest is power scourge 40%

 

in group of 50 we get 15% FB and power backline rev

 

 

[Jski.6180]

> @"juno.1840" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"juno.1840" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > 10% weavers maybe a bit too high of a number lol. Weaver is fun but you only need 1 or 2 in a group they are massive liability revs are able to dps on the same level and are much less punished for doing so.

> > > >

> > > > I find the meta is 3 classes and 1 elite skill. Scorge FB rev, and winds of destruction. Out side of this you have leased use effects and classes to throw ppl off.

> > > >

> > > > The meta is in a very boring state its not fun to use and its not fun to play vs it. The last balancing patch only made things worst.

> > >

> > > He said "ele" not "weaver". I'm seeing more support tempests after the nerf to chrono boon-share. The tempests can puke out boons, utility auras, and CC -- all while healing good amounts.

> >

> > No its weaver he talking about staff dmg weaver it has a very small places. Tempest has NO places nor dose core ele. Tempest was never in competition with chrono for boons-share because chrono was sharing out much stronger boons and making FB support stronger. Tempest was competing with revs (who are doing dmg) for the same type of boons at 10 targets and perma level were most of tempest boons are 5 and far from perma.

> >

> > Tempest is the saddest of classes.

>

> You're claiming facts where there are none:

>

> * "he talking about staff dmg weaver" -- Kovu never said anything about staff, damage, or weaver

> * "Chrono was sharing out much stronger boons" -- not any more, I'm living in the present, so should you

> * "Tempest was competing with revs for same type of boons" -- the closest thing to a fact you said, but not 100% accurate

>

> You also disregarded my other points about healing and utility. Regardless, different guilds run different comps and, as I said, I'm seeing more support/utility tempests on my server.

>

 

> @RisenHowl.2419 said:

> 30% fb

> 40% power Herald

> 20% corrupt scourge sc/dag, axe/f

> 10% weaver

>

> Stay at 1200 range and chunk with heralds, push if they come into <900 range and run through with corrupt scourge and Herald on staff/jalis. Superspeed the parties with glint 5 before swapping?

>

> No room for other classes =/

>

> Loving the 16k+ hammer hits on 3k armor btw, feels good to play against.

 

 

Did not work the way i wanted but close enofe.

 

Chron still give out quikness stab resicanese and alictorly things tempest dose not so YES chron still a better boon support classe.

 

Tempest is competing with rev because rev gives out the same boons but to 10 targets at a perma level. The big diffrents is the rev can dmg like a weaver and support like a tempest at the same time.

 

You find most tempest only play tempest because they like the ele class and not the other support. Not because tempest is a better support its just less boring. Nothing to do with balancing or the stronger chose sadly tempest is significantly weaker then the other supports and most tempest players know it.

[RisenHowl.2419]

you guys claiming boon chrono is still relevant are badly mistaken. pop some altruism runes on a scrapper and spam mortar kit with purity of purpose. every swap removes conditions and converts them into boons+regen, 1.5s CD.

 

even if the scrapper sucks and only swaps ever 2s, that's 300 boon applications per minute.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> you guys claiming boon chrono is still relevant are badly mistaken. pop some altruism runes on a scrapper and spam mortar kit with purity of purpose. every swap removes conditions and converts them into boons+regen, 1.5s CD.

>

> even if the scrapper sucks and only swaps ever 2s, that's 300 boon applications per minute.

Except if it had actually been conditions that did some damage, the scrapper would be dead after a couple of swaps. You dont have infinite condi cleanse yourself you know. This is the same reason why necros never ran unholy martyr beyond the first try. Because they instantly die if trying to "cleanse" a bomb.

[RisenHowl.2419]

No one runs condi comps right now, 20 stacks of torment with 0 conditions damage is what 600 dps? 1.2k if moving?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> regarding numbers

>

> usually for 20 man squad

> 1 FB in each team (if not guildies its hard to finds)

> 1 power backline rev in most groups

>

> so its 20% FB and power backline rev

> 2 SB so 10%

> 1 mesmer so 5%

> 1 scrapper or healing ventari (me) 5%

> rest is power scourge 40%

>

> in group of 50 we get 15% FB and power backline rev

>

>

 

Power scourge has its uses, but when enemy movement is good, they do only very little. I think it's better to run at least some condition damage. Especially if you look at how much torment dmg you do in wvw on scourge.

 

So you have to decide for your group wether you go power scourge with almost no sustained damage, but very good spikes

Or if you go hybrid, with good sustained damage and still very good spikes.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > regarding numbers

> >

> > usually for 20 man squad

> > 1 FB in each team (if not guildies its hard to finds)

> > 1 power backline rev in most groups

> >

> > so its 20% FB and power backline rev

> > 2 SB so 10%

> > 1 mesmer so 5%

> > 1 scrapper or healing ventari (me) 5%

> > rest is power scourge 40%

> >

> > in group of 50 we get 15% FB and power backline rev

> >

> >

>

> Power scourge has its uses, but when enemy movement is good, they do only very little. I think it's better to run at least some condition damage. Especially if you look at how much torment dmg you do in wvw on scourge.

>

> So you have to decide for your group wether you go power scourge with almost no sustained damage, but very good spikes

> Or if you go hybrid, with good sustained damage and still very good spikes.

 

when i check condi dmg from torment its usually 400 per second. which is low due to cleanse. so power is best combine with good burst which can shut down few members (spike with hammer rev and scourge = OMG)