Why do all the good players leave GW2?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > I heard they all came back since they got duo queue. Thats what they said last season.

> >

> > Not all, not even close. Maybe only like 25% of the people that left came back with the duo q at most...with out a 5 man q you will never see the numbers pvp had in its esport era.

>

> They need to get their act sorted out then. They made big noise to get duo queue last season and got it. All lies, I guess then. Wrecking our games for no reason.

>

> Tbh - I'd rather have them gone as natural attrition and see new good players emerge over time.

 

Id like to see gw2 over take its predecessor in terms of pvp content and build diversity. But that probably wont happen in gw2 life span. If u take the dodge mechanic and put it into gw1 i feel that game can make a biiig comback.

[sephiroth.4217]

I know a lot of players left when they scrapped team queue, I was in 3 pvp guilds that died out and one of those guilds was atleast 80 players, we weren't all that great but we made up for player population. Other players have mentioned they were in guilds that were 200 deep that died out and in one thread we got a rough tally of over 1k players from people speaking up about their guilds dying out from the change.

 

To players like myself, we read the game name as guild wars and then presume we can be in a guild and fight other guilds, this could be achieved in WvW until a dev said it violated thier game mode and we could also achieve this in pvp until they removed team queue... turns out the name "guild wars" is lore and not what you can do in game.

[RedShark.9548]

A balance patch every 3 months for pvp just doent work at all.

Make it 1 patch every 2-3 weeks and we might talk again.

[Khalisto.5780]

There are better games to put their talents on

 

 

[MrFrusciante.2438]

> @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> I'll let others do the long answer, but the short answer is: I'm still here

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

Speak the truth

 

**Game is Depressing**

**'Gw2 can not recover'**

**"Absolutely nothing to Guild Wars 2'**

**'Why waste your talent on Guild Wars 2'**

**'It's the Same Thing' 'Talk about the Same Thing'**

 

 

**"History Repeats Itself'

Especially When You Ignore It**

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOZH0YNe8NA

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"MrFrusciante.2438" said:

> > @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> > I'll let others do the long answer, but the short answer is: I'm still here

>

>

 

What happen to fastcar and rambocop? Is that yoose?

[Abazigal.3679]

I used to be a " good " player back in times. I did personnaly play bother much less because i'm not a huge fan of the seasonal system, which asks you to deal with the same solo queue problems every single season. I used to play competitive games a lot and ladders which were rather logic, even in GW1, but i'm not fan of the way ladders are made in games nowadays.

 

 

 

[serialkicker.5274]

PvPers always complain, in every game.

[Delweyn.1309]

At lauch (big hope in pvp esport) since esport failed (many years)

 

Ane support in pvp Anet support in pvp

**<--------------------------------------------------------------------------->**................../.................. **<-->**

 

So it's normal that many players are staying away from pvp, even pve who would like to do some from time to time.

 

Nearly nothing has changed since years.

What's done in pvp since +4 years = ressources of maybe 1 episode of 1 season of living world in pve (with map and all).

[Yannir.4132]

> @"sinsrock.1702" said:

> Hello all I have a legit question, If you wana be trolly with your answer whatever haha but im looking for actual answer, im still newer to the game picked up the game around a year after pof release I know that gw2 was supposed to have a competitive like Esports thing a long long long time ago but that looks like its been scrapped I hear all the time that a lot of the really good players left but why? this seems to be a touchy question but im pretty curious :)

 

Honestly it's because many of these competitive players were in it for the money. It was their livelihood. They either needed to find a job, and never returned to GW2 or just found another game to make money from and be competitive again. Like the whole of Team Denial/TCG transferred themselves into Smite for a time. Lord Helseth landed a really lucrative job outside gaming. Now most of them(3/5) are back actually.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Two reasons:

 

1. pro players need it to be e-sports (real money rewards at tournaments, recognition, stable future with big fan following). GW2 sPvP is not suited for that role and dropped out from e-sport scene.

 

2. Good players that are in it just for fun, need good balance and changes in the meta. With small pvp team and infrequent balance patches (compared to mainstream pvp games like LoL) that's a tall order. Some things stay in meta for years (like guards, warriors and mesmers) while others can't see light of the day for equally long time (revenants as a whole save power herald, eles as a whole save weavers (and they're still nothing special), core necros, core engies)...

 

Lower elo play lets you try various fun thinigs, but on higher elo it's meta or go home, and that meta is pretty stale...

[Aeolus.3615]

Game is all about gimmick builds and aoe spam based skills so.. it isnt primrally for skilled players... just gimmickers that show off playing against low performance builds.

[mixxed.5862]

There's two main reasons why the PvP playerbase is currently shrinking:

 

1. Playing a game mode where you're just 1 of 5 can be tilting. Because communication isn't properly possible everyone needs to be on top of their game, and there's not much you can do but to try hard yourself. You never feel in control and there's no identification with your team. Battle Royale games are way better in that regard, while MOBAs suffer from the same issue in their solo ranked queues. But unlike popular MOBAs the player base isn't big enough to consistently provide good matches for high skilled players. It just doesn't make for an enjoyable competitive experience. GW2 needs a system that properly promotes playing as a team on a regular basis! SPvP is a team effort and most fun that way.

 

2. Currently the meta is blowing up your enemies with just a few skills as fast as you can. Many profession design and balancing decision were plain awful regarding PvP since PoF. People are leaving because PvP just isn't as fun anymore. And it's not getting any better, every skill they touch is being reworked into a straightforward big DPS ability to suit raids e.g. guardian's focus #4 rework, stripping any nuance to gameplay it provided in PvP and turning it into a mindless fire and forget ranged damage skill. I wish they would just revert it, it makes no sense. The devs don't seem to pursue interesting skill design anymore that promotes skillful play and counterplay opportunities. They don't seem to realize that turning EVERY one of your weapon skills into a raid tier DPS skill in PvP dumbs down the experience into a mindless spam off cooldown - pretty much what raids are. Most of the current meta builds allow for shallow-brained DPS spam.

 

The damage on most professions is completely out of control:

* **Heralds** stack 25 might at 40 power on top of all their damage modifiers and both off-hand sword skills being big bursts now. Why are they so intent on turning every weapon skill into big damage now? With the block on Sword #4 into lower damage shackling wave the skill was way more interesting.

* **Holo** has insane cleave with its AA in holoform alone. Some quickness and an AA chain turns into a full on burst. Add a 600 radius CC to the mix and you've successfully screwed fun team fights.

* **Reaper**'s cleave in shroud is overdone as well.

* **Deadeye** with stealth on dodge and big ranged rifle bursts - best idea yet. **Thief** got a full evade on Daggerstorm and now the duration needs a shave.

* Same thing for **Spellbreaker**'s Rampage.

* **Mirage** is frustrating to play against due to its constant target break from Axe #3 (8 seconds CD btw), the ability to dodge while stunned and the condi spam on everything is ****ing overblown. Scepter #3 was buffed way too hard.

* **Soulbeast** is pure boon spam cancer. Moa stance and Fresh Reinforcements need big nerfs, +66% boon duration is too much. Boon durations from many skills/traits are out of control already (rune of leadership doesn't help). Adding damage reduction to Dolyak stance was completely unnecessary. Axe desperately needs a nerf in might application, damage and cooldowns ever since it was overbuffed in March.

* With Devouring Darkness **Scourge** has the single most broken skill in the game right now.

* At least **Firebrand** has seen good changes recently!

[Daishi.6027]

In the long run no one (or more accurately a very tiny amount of players compared to the installed user base) likes gw2 conquest.

 

Even when supported it draws very little viewership and fails to retain new viewers; and viewership is the main back bone of e-sports.

 

So then devs support it less, then players leave because there is no real incentive.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I think every answer will be some variation of poor balance,support and lack of incentives

[SkyShroud.2865]

Good as in less casual players?

 

It generally come down to boring. There are plenty of games out there, no reason to stick to a game that struggle to keep people interested.

[Highlie.7641]

Balance is horrible. When most of us die in combat we think to our self "well i could of prevented that by using X"

i.e: a ranger rapid fires you, you cast DB and steal. it's countered ('rupt) and your now in range.

 

Now when you die, the majority of the time the reason is just arena net's biased balance team.

I.e: a ranger rapid fires you, you cast Db and steal, your dead. "Killed by nerf 98764"

 

Then we have set's that where a joy to play at launch like S/d, reduced to brain dead levels. all the depth has been removed, and all the tricks that showed quality play have been deleted. Like alot of the old S/d user's i can't even play that set anymore. it so easy it makes me angry.

 

 

[Swagg.9236]

Balance isn't really the problem. Nobody here really uses the word balance in the way that adequately describes the true problem. The real issue is that GW2 is flawed at a fundamental design level, and "balance" can't fix that.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> Balance isn't really the problem. Nobody here really uses the word balance in the way that adequately describes the true problem. **The real issue is that GW2 is flawed at a fundamental design level, and "balance" can't fix that**

 

Well said!!

[ScottBroChill.3254]

GW2's main target audience isn't skilled, hardcore gamers. It's main audience is casuals, and with that theyre going to spend more resources on things for casual players which is basically the living story and gem store stuff. Some people are saying they just don't know how to balance and make pvp rewarding, which is somewhat true, but its because they aren't allocating their resources towards it.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> GW2's main target audience isn't skilled, hardcore gamers. It's main audience is casuals, and with that theyre going to spend more resources on things for casual players which is basically the living story and gem store stuff. Some people are saying they just don't know how to balance and make pvp rewarding, which is somewhat true, but its because they aren't allocating their resources towards it.

 

Well said and spot on its not that there aren't people to fix pvp its just lack of caring. Gw1 had epic pvp because that what the game focused on before the gem store days where they pump out new skins to buy every other month or so. That is why i have been forced to play unranked after a epic season 1-4 (mostly solo) and trying up to season 7 but the wintrading was too much to bother with.

[Henrik.7560]

Heart of Thorns and the rise of the bunker meta deleted 75% of PvP player base because aNet took 1 year to "fix" it, however they didnn't listen to the community which were asking to tone down the power creep, boon output, and heal output of Elite Specializations, instead they just removed amulets, runes, and making the sigils extremely stale.

In path of fires there's not much bunker meta as everything hits like a truck but also spams heals/boons even more excessively than HoT days, everything has been buffed through the roof and it is a spam meta.

[Jekkt.6045]

as a former pvp player who participated in a lot of tournaments i will try to answer your question as good as i can.

I used to play in a couple of teams, with and against players who later on got into the pro league. my last team made attempts to get into the pro league through the qualification tournament (forgot the name) so our team was very high on the team leaderboards (which was a requirement to participate in the qualifier). sadly because of some miscommunication and other things we didn't make it.

 

gw2 pvp had its ups and its many downs. on release pvp was a lot of fun, but also very chaotic. the balance wasn't very good either. after many (slow) patches pvp balance got a lot better. this was before they released the pre-expansion (heart of thorns) patch which completely ruined the game and dumbed everything down, you could call it the end of the beginning. this only got worse with the elite specializations.

 

before we had the pro league we had esl, other weekly tournaments, community hosted tourmanets, tournament of legends and tournament of glory. anet's marketing took it further and they hosted they paid pro league.

 

gw2 pvp used (before they killed the balance) to be quite fun to play, but it was a total disaster to watch it. conquest is an inherently boring game mode and most of the time you have players on the far point, close point, and mid point, maybe some rotating. so most of the time you had the observer switch between the points. some tournaments tried to fix this by having separate cameras for the points and while it made it a bit better, it was still stupid.

another problem was the visual clutter from skills (which got even worse with heart of thorns) and a laughable attempt by anet to fix this.

 

spvp's infrastructure wasn't really that good either. if you wanted to practice you had to find another team to scrim with. solo queue was not the way 5v5 was played. pvp lacked an influx of new players, the tutorials were really bad and the pvp playerbase is also quite learn resistant.

 

ultimately gw2 esports failed because of simple reasons:

 

1. conquest is bad. it's boring to play and worse to watch.

2. spvp is bad for viewers (ties into point 1). too much visual clutter, players too split (in LoL lategame you usually have 5vs5, in gw2 beginning to end was the same)

3. esports is marketing, it's a fun way to get new players into the game. didn't work for gw2. gw2 pvp is hard to pick up, bad tutorials -> few new players -> no profit

4. the balance team did a terrible job most of the time. patches took way too long, patches were terrible and most of the time didn't fix anything or made things worse.

5. after dumbing down the combat, the game just wasn't fun anymore. yes, as a pro player you made money, but the burn-out factor is high if you can't enjoy it.

 

so when anet noticed that gw2 spvp esports wasn't profitable they just cut it without saying a thing.

 

i hope my answer can clarify some of your questions.

[Highlie.7641]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> Balance isn't really the problem. Nobody here really uses the word balance in the way that adequately describes the true problem. The real issue is that GW2 is flawed at a fundamental design level, and "balance" can't fix that.

 

While i understand where your coming from i don't agree. I've seen to many people fail there damage rotations. only to try and do the exact same rotation again and again. They don't react or even attempt to change it up. If everything wasn't power creeped, they wouldn't be placing as high as they are. but due to balance they can get away with shoddy play.