kharmin.7683 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 It really doesn't take much time reading someone's comment to know whether or not they are full of kitten regardless of the number of hours they have logged. I don't see a need for the OP's request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. The same arguments all of you are making against hours played and achievement points shown could be made against the likes and helpful points system thats already implemented and yet we already have that and everyone is a ok with it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. Do you see anyone agreeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. The same arguments all of you are making against hours played and achievement points shown could be made against the likes and helpful points system thats already implemented and yet we already have that and everyone is a ok with it lol. The likes and helpful system serves a totally different function on top of the one you want tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Sure, why not? Give posters another fallacy to prop up their bad arguments. It saves a lot of effort in responding when posters resolves arguments with "well I've played 100 hours more than you". I'm for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. > Do you see anyone agreeing? Yes there are a couple, read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. > > Do you see anyone agreeing? > > Yes there are a couple, read the thread. So you attempt to dismiss the more than 5 people who disagree with you and attempt to legitimise the apparent minority who are in favour of your idea? There is a reason people react to your threads the way they do and it far more than how bad and controversial some of your ideas are. Said it once and will say it again no matter how long someone has played, you included, doesn't automatically make their ideas any better or mean that their bad ideas carry more weight and should be deemed good. The only thing that matters about the idea is the quality of it regardless of who it comes from and their background. There is also one thing you do I every one of these threads you make and it is always saying "a lot of my friends think it's good and agree"/ "I've spoke to a lot of people and they agree" in some attempt to make your idea sound backed and more credible, well thought out and beyond your own personal opinion and wants. It doesn't. If you're looking for an echo chamber and back pats you won't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boysenberry.1869 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. The same arguments all of you are making against hours played and achievement points shown could be made against the likes and helpful points system thats already implemented and yet we already have that and everyone is a ok with it lol. I went through and actually counted every unique poster that disagreed and counted 36. Many of which have their own take or add on to what other people are saying. Now some people return and continue to "disagree in a circle" because you seem obsessed with finding excuses to marginalize anyone with a different opinion than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hevoskuuri.3891 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Please no. New people's opinions would be squashed by players with 5k hours, and theirs would be squashed by players with 10k hours, and so forth. Ultimately everything would become a prestige struggle with zero constructive dialog on anyone's part. The way things are now, at least we can all discuss our opinions here as equals, on a level playing field. If people de-value your opinions by saying 'you must be new here', you can always correct them and perhaps take time to explain your opinions to them. Maybe they actually have less hours than you do and thus didn't quite understand what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 No thanks. I don't care how many hours people have played, and I dont care to show my own playhours either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. The same arguments all of you are making against hours played and achievement points shown could be made against the likes and helpful points system thats already implemented and yet we already have that and everyone is a ok with it lol. Helpfuls and likes are given to the _post_, not the poster. You get them because you've written a post that was well received, not because it's you that have written the post. Compare to your idea where it's not the post that is important, and not what was written in it, but merely the seniority of the person who wrote it. See the difference? Still, the likes aren't that important really, and personally i wouldn't cry if they were removed. I'm definitely glad the dislikes were. > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > I like how if you scroll through the comments everyone is just echoing each others comments and dishing out one liners, and are recieving tons of thumbs up and helpful comment points, which might I add is the system that everyone relies upon on the forums in order to "assess" the in game knowledge of a poster. This proves that you can rack up a bunch of likes and helpfuls by posting things that dont really translate into knowledge of the game. > > I'd much rather rely on in game hours played and achievement point total at a glance. And i'd rather rely on actually _reading_ the posts i am commenting on, and judging them based on their merits and content, and not some independent factors like hours played. I know that you probably think that if your suggestion were to be implemented, people would start treating your other ideas better, awed by your veteran status. I'd suggest you consider a novel idea though - that maybe, just maybe, people are disagreeing with your ideas not because they think you lack the "seniority" to give weight to them, but merely because those ideas are just _bad_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Well all I see is the same 5 people disagreeing in a circle. The same arguments all of you are making against hours played and achievement points shown could be made against the likes and helpful points system thats already implemented and yet we already have that and everyone is a ok with it lol. > Helpfuls and likes are given to the _post_, not the poster. You get them because you've written a post that was well received, not because it's you that have written the post. Compare to your idea where it's not the post that is important, and not what was written in it, but merely the seniority of the person who wrote it. See the difference? > > Still, the likes aren't that important really, and personally i wouldn't cry if they were removed. I'm definitely glad the dislikes were. > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > I like how if you scroll through the comments everyone is just echoing each others comments and dishing out one liners, and are recieving tons of thumbs up and helpful comment points, which might I add is the system that everyone relies upon on the forums in order to "assess" the in game knowledge of a poster. This proves that you can rack up a bunch of likes and helpfuls by posting things that dont really translate into knowledge of the game. > > > > I'd much rather rely on in game hours played and achievement point total at a glance. > And i'd rather rely on actually _reading_ the posts i am commenting on, and judging them based on their merits and content, and not some independent factors like hours played. > > I know that you probably think that if your suggestion were to be implemented, people would start treating your other ideas better, awed by your veteran status. I'd suggest you consider a novel idea though - that maybe, just maybe, people are disagreeing with your ideas not because they think you lack the "seniority" to give weight to them, but merely because those ideas are just _bad_. > Like I said we could take this same argument to the current like and helpful system. I would argue then that likes and helpfuls be removed because they create a sense of seniority among posters, which is needless since we should be judging posts based on their content and not some point system which gives a biased impression of the poster. Hoenstly hours played and achievement points feels way less biased then recieved likes or helpfuls lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > There is also one thing you do I every one of these threads you make and it is always saying "a lot of my friends think it's good and agree"/ "I've spoke to a lot of people and they agree" in some attempt to make your idea sound backed and more credible, well thought out and beyond your own personal opinion and wants. It doesn't. On a related note if your friends are all agreeing with your ideas off the forum maybe prompt them to come here and say it in public? Surely the least they can do is show support for a friend, especially if it might get them a change they want in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I find no redeeming merit in the suggestion that number of hours logged into the game be part of a users display on the forums. Inevitably, someone will be dismissive of a suggestion based on a meaningless number instead their content. Claims of elitism will follow. Bans shortly after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Like I said we could take this same argument to the current like and helpful system. Yes, we probably could (although the difference i have pointed to you in the very post you quoted, which you ignored, is quite major). And you'd probably hear quite a resistance to implementing such a system if the forum didn't start with it. But it did start with it, so it remains so. Notice, by the way, that a suggestion to remove dislikes turned out very popular and in the end got that feature removed. > I would argue then that likes and helpfuls be removed because they create a sense of seniority among posters So you didn't get the difference i mentioned. Likes are not for posters. They are for _posts_. There's no "sense of seniority" among posts. But if you want to argue for their removal, please, be my guest. I honestly don't care. Unless, of course, your arguments will turn out to be rubbish, in which case i might decide to say so. > which is needless since we should be judging posts based on their content and not some point system which gives a biased impression of the poster. And we are. Why do you think people clicked "like" and "helpful" in the first place? Because of the poster, or because of the post? > Hoenstly hours played and achievement points feels way less biased then recieved likes or helpfuls lol. Less biased, but also less _relevant_. Because, unlike likes and helpfuls they have absolutely nothing to do with the posts themselves. Seriously, again, you yourself do not care about such a "seniority" of other posters, and you are the one arguing for implementation of this feature. If it's so meaningless for you, why would it matter for anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > Like I said we could take this same argument to the current like and helpful system. > Yes, we probably could (although the difference i have pointed to you in the very post you quoted, which you ignored, is quite major). And you'd probably hear quite a resistance to implementing such a system if the forum didn't start with it. But it did start with it, so it remains so. Notice, by the way, that a suggestion to remove dislikes turned out very popular and in the end got that feature removed. > > > I would argue then that likes and helpfuls be removed because they create a sense of seniority among posters > So you didn't get the difference i mentioned. Likes are not for posters. They are for _posts_. There's no "sense of seniority" among posts. But if you want to argue for their removal, please, be my guest. I honestly don't care. Unless, of course, your arguments will turn out to be rubbish, in which case i might decide to say so. > > > which is needless since we should be judging posts based on their content and not some point system which gives a biased impression of the poster. > And we are. Why do you think people clicked "like" and "helpful" in the first place? Because of the poster, or because of the post? > > > Hoenstly hours played and achievement points feels way less biased then recieved likes or helpfuls lol. > Less biased, but also less _relevant_. Because, unlike likes and helpfuls they have absolutely nothing to do with the posts themselves. > > Seriously, again, you yourself do not care about such a "seniority" of other posters, and you are the one arguing for implementation of this feature. If it's so meaningless for you, why would it matter for anyone else? > > How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol. Playtime and achievement points in game are one of the few measurable variables that actually gives credence to a poster. Especially when talking about game mechanics or knowledge of the game and its features in a gw2 forum lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol. Except you are supposed to be evaluating the post, not the poster. > Playtime and achievement points in game are one of the few measurable variables that actually gives credence to a poster. Especially when talking about game mechanics or knowledge of the game and its features in a gw2 forum lol. Playtime and achievement poitnts do not give credence to a poster. Speaking sense and being right do. Again, you yourself do not give credence to anyone based on those, but merely on whether you agree with them or not. We can clearly see this in this very thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > I like how if you scroll through the comments everyone is just echoing each others comments and dishing out one liners, and are recieving tons of thumbs up and helpful comment points, which might I add is the system that everyone relies upon on the forums in order to "assess" the in game knowledge of a poster. This proves that you can rack up a bunch of likes and helpfuls by posting things that dont really translate into knowledge of the game. > > I'd much rather rely on in game hours played and achievement point total at a glance. Id love to see your evidence that everyone relies on thumbs up or helpful comment points to assess the knowledge of a poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Seriously, why is this thread still going? OP has made his/her opinion known, various replies have countered the opinion (while a few agreed) but yet the argument continues to circle with no end in sight. OP is for suggestion and won't change his/her mind and hasn't been able to change the minds of those opposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol. > Except you are supposed to be evaluating the post, not the poster. This is something that i take exception with. Not the idea of using them for the post but the fact that they still exist given downvoting is gone. If it's okay to click a button to agree with a post then the same value should have been retained in a click to disagree (downvote). I understand why ANet chose to remove it, and i understand that your perspective is that they hold little to no weight either of which we agree. To me that means that either downvoting should return or that both the helpful and vote should recieve the same fate. Either way carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miraude.2107 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Well you know 75% more then someone with low play hours who has a large opinion, so I'll take it. And I would imagine that you would only post on sections of the forum you know about. See how that works. AND this is the attitude as to why I left WoW behind. Nothing like being told that because I was 'new' (new to game but not MMOs) I didn't know how to tank because I didn't have heirlooms. Nevermind that I actually looked up on how to tank before trying. Nothing like being told 'I don't need that agi cloak' from people who played since beta even though I researched my class and yes, enhancement shaman use agility items, I'm sorry you haven't encountered one in the 5+ years they were considered trash. Nothing like watching Deathcharger's Reins drop in a dungeon group and excitedly rolling on it only to have the person who won link us to his stream SHOWING us that he already had the mount in his collection and deleting it because 'we should have been playing when the content was current.' Time played does not correlate to skill or knowledge of the game. I got compliments upon compliments when I went to ESO because I was tanking. Most of those compliments were 'I can't believe a noob is tanking better than our reg tank.' They didn't know I used to tank in WoW, they just assumed the pug they picked up was gonna be a headache because I didn't have the time spent in game that they did, didn't have the gear they did and was doing it just to kill time. You do not know the person's gaming history. Someone from COD could easily transition into being a good shot in Overwatch. Someone who played Rift could easily make a transition to GW2. Someone could easily see a strategy not working or see something in a raid that the vets would overlook and your system of seniority advocates that their input is less valuable than the person who has played for 3 years even if they could improve the situation. Even now on another game I'm watching this happen. A person with over 1,000 hours right now is ripping apart 7 Days to Die saying the game is now dead to them, it sucks, etc, etc. Why the sudden change of heart? Alpha 17 which did much needed changes to the skill set system. Mr. 1,000 so my opinion matters more than yours doesn't like the change yet in comments, it's found he's only spent 2 hours in game. He is arguing with a person who has only spent 250 hours in game yet 50 of those hours....are in Alpha 17 getting to know the system. Who should I listen to? The person with less hours that actually spent time with the new system or the person with more hours with rose-tinted glasses on a part of the game the devs weren't happy with or the one that has actually used the new system and doesn't think it's that bad? All in all, you already have your rating system with the stars next to people's names on the forums. All Steam's time played has shown me with that system? Is to not talk on the forums at all because someone will look at the time I played on the game, and then treat me like dirt for daring to even make a suggestion, ask a question or voice how I felt on the story or see the time played and tell me to get a life because I spent X amount of hours playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoGhosts.6790 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 "Seniority" Lol You crazy kids <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > Seriously, why is this thread still going? OP has made his/her opinion known, various replies have countered the opinion (while a few agreed) but yet the argument continues to circle with no end in sight. OP is for suggestion and won't change his/her mind and hasn't been able to change the minds of those opposed. Probably the same reason we're on the forum at all - we have nothing better to do and this is interesting enough to spend some time on. The suggestion itself may be going in circles, but I think I'm getting some interesting insights into how different people perceive and interpret different posts and ranking systems, which is definitely useful for me to know given I spend way too much time online and pretty much all my conscious time trying to understand other people for one reason or another. > @"miraude.2107" said: > Time played does not correlate to skill or knowledge of the game. I got compliments upon compliments when I went to ESO because I was tanking. Most of those compliments were 'I can't believe a noob is tanking better than our reg tank.' They didn't know I used to tank in WoW, they just assumed the pug they picked up was gonna be a headache because I didn't have the time spent in game that they did, didn't have the gear they did and was doing it just to kill time. To be fair people in ESO just assume all pugs are terrible until proven otherwise. If it wasn't time played (or I'm guessing more specifically having less CP than they did) they'd find another reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > How could it be less relevant lol? I'd argue it's one of the only things that matters if anything matters when evaluating a poster lol. The forum rules require that in responding, we focus on the post, not the poster. There is no need to evaluate a poster to evaluate the post. Showing account status via AP or time-in-game would be a sign that ANet was moving towards evaluating posters, not posts. Also, there is a major difference between showing AP/Time-in-Game versus helpful and thumbs up ratings. AP/Time is not an interactive system. Helpful and thumbs up are. Giving one or the other to a post is a form of feedback. There is no such component to your proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 If someone tells me that the sky is blue, I don't need to check their meteorology credentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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