Warclaw kills Roaming

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > > > @"Duckota.4769" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Magnuzone.8395" said:

> > > > > > > > > Play against ppl who are interested in fighting you, problem solved. Noone likes a ganker.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Agreed, ganking and stealth ambushes are 2 reasons I never cared for WvW.

> > > > > > > > It can still happen in the gamemode but at least the mobility gap between classes has been diminished thanks to the mount.

> > > > > > > > Now everyone has the freedom to choose to fight or flight rather than being forced into it constantly by classes that can easily get away from you when you gain the upper hand thanks to a cheap mechanical advantage.. stealth and shadowstep/teleports.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It hasn't killed these tactics.. it's just made them more difficult to pull of solo and that's a good thing.

> > > > > > > > WvW should never be an easy place for a solo player to go around killing.. it's a massive multiplayer pvp game mode for a reason.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You are talking about the classes with the lowest sustain. You do realize that right? Thief is the worst profession in the game 1v1 imo. They have mobility because they lack elsewhere. The fact you weren't able to keep up with them tells me you likely played a class more than capable of dealing with them. People seem to not believe that mobility is an important factor when balancing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes but you don't need sustain when you can stunlock someone to death from behind within a couple of seconds and have almost 100% success rate at running away if your ambush fails while your victim has no way to get away from you aside from forcing you to run by turning the tide.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Warclaw only makes it more difficult for you to trap someone in combat.. once they're locked in they can't remount and flee.

> > > > > > a couple of thieves are still more than capable of pulling off gank ambushes even on a mounted player.

> > > > >

> > > > > What. Stunlock someone to death? What. Yeah see this is why not everyone needs a voice on combat balance. Imagine running 0 stunbreaks and complaining about dying in a stun.

> > > >

> > > > I run two.. and have still been stunlocked to death in WvW.. and pvp for that matter.

> > > > One of the main reasons I've always hated the stability change from duration to stacks.. and also why I've always felt that a stunbreak should give you a at least a second of immunity to stuns after being activated.

> > >

> > > So you used them both poorly and failed to dodge a cc so you died. Great. Working as intended.

> >

> > No I use them both to break out of stuns along with 2 dodges that both got evades and still got stuned again then killed from behind where I couldn't attack as I could not move nor turn around.

> > If that's working as intended then the stability change was a bad Idea like I always believed it to be.

> > And it doesn't change the fact that there has always been a balance problem between classes with access to too much mobility and stuns etc vs classes that have too little defense against it.

> > The Warclaw hasn't fixed the problem but it has given all the classes a fair chance at avoiding battles they don't want to get involved in.. which until recently was almost exclusively an option for classes that have stealth and way too much mobility.

> > And no matter how angry that's made those who favor those cheaper classes for their easy kill/flee methods.. I'm sticking to my opinion that it's a good thing for the game mode.

> > I've hated WvW for years.. and yet i'm playing it almost daily now.. and so are many others if those full ques are proving anything.

>

> Those full queues are proving people are still getting mounts before they go back to LA to sit on it and play music instruments here and there. And I'm still stuck on the fact you're getting 'stunlocked' to death by thief not really being a thing in my gameplay. Especially since a majority of their CC would come from steal which is a daze. I guess they can run basi venom but thats whatever also. Not sure what stuns you're really facing. Which leads me to believe it may be a lack of matchup knowledge.

 

I'll not pretend to know what I'm being hit with only what effects I suffer.

I have a PvE thief myself though so I know they can have access to a lot of CC if you build for it.

 

Shortbow has a stealth imob as well as a cripple and daze

Sword has a cripple and a stealth daze as well as a stun when paired with pistol offhand

Pistol 4 is a daze as well so the Sword Pistol combo has a ton of CC on it's own before factoring in utility and elite as well as traits.

And that's just core thief.. so I dunno why the idea of stunlocking people to death seems surprising to you, Thief has a lot of utility like that.

My guess is we just play very different characters and have different playstyles thus we have very different experiences.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lmao yeah 2 sec immobilizations that require to be done during the few seconds ur stealthed,the cripple and dazes that do garbage dps and are followed up by more garbage dps. Most classes way more loaded and powercreeped require u to simple push a button one for that same immobilization effect as well as doing more dps lmao can paint a turd any colour,still a turd. Sb good for choking gas downed players and movement rest is Garbo due to being designed way to conservatively

[Opal.9324]

> @"displayname.8315" said:

> > @"Opal.9324" said:

> > > @"displayname.8315" said:

> > > > @"Opal.9324" said:

> > > > > @"displayname.8315" said:

> > > > > > @"Opal.9324" said:

> > > > > > Roaming is so boring now. No one wants to fight until they outnumber you to the point that you don't have a chance to fight back, at which point they will happily run you over. And before anyone starts with that whole "oh ur just a ganker git gud lol nub" kitten, I play a tanky warrior that probably couldn't gank even if I wanted it to.

> > > > >

> > > > > I thought people who call themselves roamers could fight outnumbered. Not just blow their whole rotation and die like a nub. Maybe survive a little longer till the rest of your team shows up. Think you are just missing the big picture here since you die and miss the rest of the story.

> > > > >

> > > > > No shame in resetting a 1v10 fight. Did they talk you into not going ooc or resetting? Heh maybe that's true in a 1v1 or 1v2.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Wow, you must be the best roamer in the game. How about you show me a build that can take on an entire zerg alone, if dieing to them makes me a "nub". Yeah, I can fight outnumbered. But there are limits to HOW outnumbered. And I highly doubt my team's zerg is gonna show up just to save 1 roamer's butt from an enemy zerg.

> > >

> > > Meh don't roam as much just play the map. When you do that other team mates playing the same way will be around.

> > >

> > > Few good guys keeping pace with the zerg can start dropping people sure. 20+ callouts are some of the best on a good roamer server. If it's 30 or 40 that usually attracts your zerg to help. Can still aggro them from walls or portals.

> >

> > and none of this changes the reason I originally posted in this thread. If the only fights I'm gonna get are fights against zergs, where I can't win without calling my own zerg, what's the point of solo roaming? May as well just join a zerg myself if that's the only time people want to fight, but that starts to bore me after about an hour. Still more exciting than roaming is right now, I guess. Now it feels like PvE until an enemy zerg shows up while I'm capping something and then I'm screwed.

>

> Not sure how you came to that. Are you not responding to the camps when they get contested or something. If you demand only duels and micro-fights then mount is right up your alley. Takes more time to find fights when your that picky.

>

> What do mean the point of solo roaming? Are you totally against your server mates helping on that camp? Or with fighting a group. Probably one of those types that says "1v1 ruined". Not a roamer after all...

 

That's like if someone ran a store that sold ice cream and cake, but they quit selling ice cream and when someone complains you say "What, are you against cake?" I'm not against group play, but I also liked fighting solo and that has been taken away.

 

[Sithia.3158]

I like the warclaw. I think has really help WvW.

As for roamers, well after being told more than a few times that they don't PPT and only care about flipping camps and ganking people and not trying to help control the map (by guarding camps from other roamers). It is hard for me to feel sorry for them when they say they cannot engage the trail of a 20+ zerg and kill a few players and get away with it because nothing in the game could keep up with them.

Sorry your meta has changed, so has zerg meta too. Deal with it because that is how the game changes to make sure new players come in.

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Sithia.3158" said:

 

> Deal with it because that is how the game changes to make sure new players come in.

>

Implying mounts improve starting conditions for new players in WvW?

 

[Straegen.2938]

> @"Sithia.3158" said:

> I like the warclaw. I think has really help WvW.

> As for roamers, well after being told more than a few times that they don't PPT and only care about flipping camps and ganking people and not trying to help control the map (by guarding camps from other roamers). It is hard for me to feel sorry for them when they say they cannot engage the trail of a 20+ zerg and kill a few players and get away with it because nothing in the game could keep up with them.

> Sorry your meta has changed, so has zerg meta too. Deal with it because that is how the game changes to make sure new players come in.

>

 

If you like your structures upgraded, you should appreciate roamers more since they are responsible for most camp flips, defense, escorting yaks and keeping Bloodlust up so zergs get points for player kills. They are also the primary scouts on a server warning a zerg that an objective is compromised before it is too late. A zerg won't defend a camp 99.9% of the time and most players actively ignore requests for backup to defend camps because there isn't much WxP in it for them. Roamers hold camps often against superior numbers way more frequently than most realize.

 

Roamers frequently prevent keeps/castle from upgrading by killing yaks and hamstring a keep/castle defense by tagging way points. The role of a roamer is typically far more impactful than yet-another-zergling pressing 1 in a zerg. Lastly those off hours when there is no zerg, that PPT is all roamer since most zerglings log out when there is no tag.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Belorn.2659" said:

> PvP avoidance is a good thing when we have a situation where a player on a PvP build optimized for 1vs1 is fighting a player on a Zerg support build optimized for support. Those two builds has no reason to fight each other, and I will take up anyone on a 1vs1 duel if I can pick their build and mine.

>

> Roaming however is much larger than just people on PvP builds killing people on non-PvP builds, and I have seen little proof that the warclaw is harming those other aspects of roaming.

 

There is a VERY good reason for a pvp optimized build to fight a support focused build...to prevent him from providing that support to his zerg, thereby providing the pvpers zerg an advantage in the overall scheme of things.

[spectrito.8513]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > PvP avoidance is a good thing when we have a situation where a player on a PvP build optimized for 1vs1 is fighting a player on a Zerg support build optimized for support. Those two builds has no reason to fight each other, and I will take up anyone on a 1vs1 duel if I can pick their build and mine.

> >

> > Roaming however is much larger than just people on PvP builds killing people on non-PvP builds, and I have seen little proof that the warclaw is harming those other aspects of roaming.

>

> There is a VERY good reason for a pvp optimized build to fight a support focused build...to prevent him from providing that support to his zerg, thereby providing the pvpers zerg an advantage in the overall scheme of things.

 

Afterall its a kitten war If people dont want to die dont join WvW

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Sithia.3158" said:

> I like the warclaw. I think has really help WvW.

> As for roamers, well after being told more than a few times that they don't PPT and only care about flipping camps and ganking people and not trying to help control the map (by guarding camps from other roamers). It is hard for me to feel sorry for them when they say they cannot engage the trail of a 20+ zerg and kill a few players and get away with it because nothing in the game could keep up with them.

> Sorry your meta has changed, so has zerg meta too. Deal with it because that is how the game changes to make sure new players come in.

>

 

What? I don't think you have ever stepped out side of your zerg more than 500 units lol.

[neven.3785]

Even though I do enjoy small scale play, I have no sympathy for roamers not getting enjoyment. Scene was ripe longer before it was just thief or Mesmer to win, and they chose to cheese it out and go for builds that kill people before they can press a button. Now people can get more distance between you, so what... Go to eotm for mountless roaming, if your roaming buddies on other servers do so you can make eotm great again

[Biff.5312]

So, have we decided yet that the Warclaw hasn't ended roaming? Or are we still clinging to this notion?

[trueanimus.4085]

yup.. and thank goodness.. RIP 1 shot roaming stealth builds.

 

Now you can reroll a good class and actually play WORLD vs WORLD.. instead of player vs 1 shot ganker!

 

 

[Eramonster.2718]

> @"neven.3785" said:

> Even though I do enjoy small scale play, I have no sympathy for roamers not getting enjoyment. Scene was ripe longer before it was just thief or Mesmer to win, and they chose to cheese it out and go for builds that kill people before they can press a button. Now people can get more distance between you, so what... Go to eotm for mountless roaming, if your roaming buddies on other servers do so you can make eotm great again

 

Mesmer is in a very funny spot in WvW atm. Imo close to pointless running them in zerg. Mirage is overpowered for duels/roaming but they had this problem of stopping enemy's track, even before the Warclaw.

 

> Now you can reroll a good class and actually play WORLD vs WORLD.. instead of player vs 1 shot ganker!

Not that I don't understand the sentiment. But a *good* class... dies to a *bad* class? :sweat:.

[displayname.8315]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> Mesmer is in a very funny spot in WvW atm. Imo close to pointless running them in zerg. Mirage is overpowered for duels/roaming but they had this problem of stopping enemy's track, even before the Warclaw.

 

Mesmer not good in zerg with it's full rotation of invincible uptime? While spitting out clones and condi's non stop? I guess when I walk my mesmer thru a full zerg with no threat of being downed I'm somehow doing it "wrong". Theif is crazy good in zergs too.

 

I must be doing it wrong hmm time to rethink my playstyle, how do the 1 shot builds work?

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Roamers complaining the only thing they like on game got destroyed, zerglings rejoicing they can avoid fights until they're 5vs1 and thieves victimising themselves like usual saying they're up, the worst profession on game and need tons of skill to play.

This thread in a nutshell.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Roamers complaining the only thing they like on game got destroyed, zerglings rejoicing they can avoid fights until they're 5vs1 and thieves victimising themselves like usual saying they're up, the worst profession on game and need tons of skill to play.

> This thread in a nutshell.

 

Theif hate,all ur post in a nutshell lol

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > Roamers complaining the only thing they like on game got destroyed, zerglings rejoicing they can avoid fights until they're 5vs1 and thieves victimising themselves like usual saying they're up, the worst profession on game and need tons of skill to play.

> > This thread in a nutshell.

>

> Theif hate,all ur post in a nutshell lol

 

Naa, just stating facts but I can quote them if it pleases your victim complex.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol kinda hard to be a victim when u barely play the class anymore,think ur deflecting due to ur own mirage victim complex,classes I play are just fine in my opinion :)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"neven.3785" said:

> Even though I do enjoy small scale play, I have no sympathy for roamers not getting enjoyment. Scene was ripe longer before it was just thief or Mesmer to win, and they chose to cheese it out and go for builds that kill people before they can press a button. Now people can get more distance between you, so what... Go to eotm for mountless roaming, if your roaming buddies on other servers do so you can make eotm great again

 

If thief and mesmer Was cheese mode, then what is holosmith/boonbeast? Both have good to crazy mobility and high dps with a ton of sustain too. If you manage to land a good burst on mes/thief then it's pretty much game set.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"displayname.8315" said:

> > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > Mesmer is in a very funny spot in WvW atm. Imo close to pointless running them in zerg. Mirage is overpowered for duels/roaming but they had this problem of stopping enemy's track, even before the Warclaw.

>

> Mesmer not good in zerg with it's full rotation of invincible uptime? While spitting out clones and condi's non stop? I guess when I walk my mesmer thru a full zerg with no threat of being downed I'm somehow doing it "wrong". Theif is crazy good in zergs too.

>

> I must be doing it wrong hmm time to rethink my playstyle, how do the 1 shot builds work?

>

Clones and condi in a zerg, lol.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

Can u guys try jalis forced engagement on the warkitten?

 

The last 2 times i used it fully stoped the player, same behavior that makes into players, it is a taunt but as most of times it wont taunt targets, just stops their movement.

[Deaeira.2651]

> @"Sithia.3158" said:

> I like the warclaw. I think has really help WvW.

> As for roamers, well after being told more than a few times that they don't PPT and only care about flipping camps and ganking people and not trying to help control the map (by guarding camps from other roamers). It is hard for me to feel sorry for them when they say they cannot engage the trail of a 20+ zerg and kill a few players and get away with it because nothing in the game could keep up with them.

> Sorry your meta has changed, so has zerg meta too. Deal with it because that is how the game changes to make sure new players come in.

>

 

Were it roamers who told you that? At least I was speaking of classical situations like defending a camp against a fellow roamer. Since the other proponent of mounts literally answered "I don't know" but kept on claiming warclaw should not be changed, I'll ask you about the following situation:

 

> So say you're arriving to defend a camp. All veterans are cleared, the circle is up and the enemy roamer mounts up. How does it go on from there?

 

I have encountered this situation both as as attacker and defender so far and there are multiple possibilities... the main question is: are these possibilities fun?

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"displayname.8315" said:

> > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > Mesmer is in a very funny spot in WvW atm. Imo close to pointless running them in zerg. Mirage is overpowered for duels/roaming but they had this problem of stopping enemy's track, even before the Warclaw.

>

> Mesmer not good in zerg with it's full rotation of invincible uptime? While spitting out clones and condi's non stop? I guess when I walk my mesmer thru a full zerg with no threat of being downed I'm somehow doing it "wrong". Theif is crazy good in zergs too.

>

> I must be doing it wrong hmm time to rethink my playstyle, how do the 1 shot builds work?

>

 

You may think you're doing it right, but your condi is cleansed instantly by the zerg. Even if your clones could stay alive, they aren't having any meaningful effect. You'll get credit for kills, but you aren't being useful.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

Crazy times! Necros roaming, mesmers with no place in a zerg because kitty is faster than portal and Rangers and Thieves being embraced by zergs because their LBs and SBs take down that one pesky mounted roamer with a disabler. Meanwhile, on the small scale front, the same groups of 5+ people are still chasing that 1 guy...

[displayname.8315]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"displayname.8315" said:

> > > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > > Mesmer is in a very funny spot in WvW atm. Imo close to pointless running them in zerg. Mirage is overpowered for duels/roaming but they had this problem of stopping enemy's track, even before the Warclaw.

> >

> > Mesmer not good in zerg with it's full rotation of invincible uptime? While spitting out clones and condi's non stop? I guess when I walk my mesmer thru a full zerg with no threat of being downed I'm somehow doing it "wrong". Theif is crazy good in zergs too.

> >

> > I must be doing it wrong hmm time to rethink my playstyle, how do the 1 shot builds work?

> >

>

> You may think you're doing it right, but your condi is cleansed instantly by the zerg. Even if your clones could stay alive, they aren't having any meaningful effect. You'll get credit for kills, but you aren't being useful.

 

Heh what you assume condition damage? That's a nice bonus sure. The clones can do their shatter job after the block/torment was already applied. Triple delight. Pop out some staff for range dps clones. Some aoes and chaos shields. If you think the condies all gets cleansed you've been sitting back at 1500 range too long.

 

Mesmer does it all. Nuke down dps with some scepter. Watch your illusion blast out a 10x spin to win woot. No worries I'll go invuns for a full rotation while I make my next decision. Or just port away Scott free... So hard I must avoid these troublesome zergs.

 

Ya'll must be the types to just stand in your blob and drop Wells forward. That works on newbs who just walk straight forward and die (90% of the players nowadays). Real fights last awhile and take actual skill.