Ario.8964 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. Builds that literally can't function at a high level in pvp are irrelevant anyways. To be honest though, condi mirage would shit on all the elites that aren't being played right now (which is part of the reason they aren't being played) outside of renegade because it can stack that much condi dmg reduction but mirage still wouldn't ever die to renegade so stalemate is solid. Zoopop is right, Condi Mirage is still a solid build that is unnecessarily easy to play and carries a ton of sub par players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 delete this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet > > > > > > > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else > > > > > > > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem > > > > > > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank. > > > > > > You complain to much for no real reason. > > > > I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly. > > > > Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not. > > Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky. > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all.... you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. again you don't know what you're talking about i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"Ario.8964" said: > Zoopop is right, Condi Mirage is still a solid build that is unnecessarily easy to play and carries a ton of sub par players. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > Removing certain stat combos from PvP to deal with a specific broken build that uses it is generally a terrible way to go about balance. All it does is banish the nonsense to WvW where it proceeds to be just as toxic there as it is here. How many trinkets were removed from pvp in the past due broken classes rather than balance classes???? U must be new ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > Removing certain stat combos from PvP to deal with a specific broken build that uses it is generally a terrible way to go about balance. All it does is banish the nonsense to WvW where it proceeds to be just as toxic there as it is here. > > > How many trinkets were removed from pvp in the past due broken classes rather than balance classes???? I agree with this--those classes combined too much vitality with toughness together with power where it became a problem. Now Demolisher (too much damage), Knight's (too much toughness), and now Paladin (too balanced) amulets need a shave. I also think healing power from Mender's should go down a little in place for more power and precision--maybe make it a more offensive amulet in place of sustain? Or maybe remove precision altogether and make it a three-stat amulet. Balance is important but amulets are the roots that put builds together (in PvE and WvW this is your gear.) By affecting these roots you affect every build in the game. Having a role for controlling a point/bunkering is fine. Being bunker to the point you can 3v1 with ease is overkill. Controlling a point should mean being unkillable in a 1v1 but very killable in a 2v1. The Chronobunker I ran in sPvP season 6 was a perfect example of a good, balanced bunker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet > > > > > > > > > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else > > > > > > > > > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem > > > > > > > > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank. > > > > > > > > You complain to much for no real reason. > > > > > > I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly. > > > > > > Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not. > > > > Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky. > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all.... > > > you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post > > condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. > > Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. > > again you don't know what you're talking about > > i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are > > i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write > > i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game Talking a bit more from being a none Mesmer player (I mainly play guardian), I think all nerfs to axe and jaunt should be reversed. IMO, the issue always was with the clone spam and this is where all the changes should have focused. All phantasm should only spawn one clone. Clones take 15% less hp. This Kees the damage in the weapons and not clone spam shatter. Would have been much better for everyone. It would keep Condi Mirage meta and reduce the annoyance of fighting mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > Removing certain stat combos from PvP to deal with a specific broken build that uses it is generally a terrible way to go about balance. All it does is banish the nonsense to WvW where it proceeds to be just as toxic there as it is here. > > > > > > How many trinkets were removed from pvp in the past due broken classes rather than balance classes???? > > I agree with this--those classes combined too much vitality with toughness together with power where it became a problem. Now Demolisher (too much damage), Knight's (too much toughness), and now Paladin (too balanced) amulets need a shave. I also think healing power from Mender's should go down a little in place for more power and precision--maybe make it a more offensive amulet in place of sustain? Or maybe remove precision altogether and make it a three-stat amulet. > > Balance is important but amulets are the roots that put builds together (in PvE and WvW this is your gear.) By affecting these roots you affect every build in the game. > > Having a role for controlling a point/bunkering is fine. Being bunker to the point you can 3v1 with ease is overkill. Controlling a point should mean being unkillable in a 1v1 but very killable in a 2v1. The Chronobunker I ran in sPvP season 6 was a perfect example of a good, balanced bunker. I actually never liked when stats are being removed from a gamemode it feels cheap solution while ignoring possible broke build from that class, it is always better to Split trait and skills that are creating that easiness when build can be that strong. Trinkets are not the problem the devs should make the class balanced for those or any stats possible, wich they don’t care for that iteration and wait to see if players actually adopt the broken metas vs broke metas, where many think this leaves to balanced fights.... Imo this happens due how devs want classes to carry players by chance there’s stats that makes classes super strong in pvp dude how easy is to access that stat combo, problem is when that stat leave another class that has a balanced build with minus option to choose if those stats were removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet > > > > > > > > > > > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else > > > > > > > > > > > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem > > > > > > > > > > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank. > > > > > > > > > > You complain to much for no real reason. > > > > > > > > I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly. > > > > > > > > Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not. > > > > > > Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky. > > > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all.... > > > > > > you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post > > > > condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. > > > > Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > > > > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. > > > > again you don't know what you're talking about > > > > i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are > > > > i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write > > > > i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game > > Talking a bit more from being a none Mesmer player (I mainly play guardian), I think all nerfs to axe and jaunt should be reversed. IMO, the issue always was with the clone spam and this is where all the changes should have focused. All phantasm should only spawn one clone. Clones take 15% less hp. > > This Kees the damage in the weapons and not clone spam shatter. Would have been much better for everyone. It would keep Condi Mirage meta and reduce the annoyance of fighting mirage. Exactly. I was never a big fan of cheesing Deceptive Evasion (the clone factory trait) but Anet forced it by destroying alternatives. Same way killing portal forced Illusionary Ambush, only for them to nearly double the c/d on a subsequent patch. Delete axe, leaving only clunky but somehow OP scepter which will be nerfed next. See how this works? No need to reduce clone HP though. They're paper that pop with cleaves, AOEs, and some autos already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem > > > > > > > > > > > > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank. > > > > > > > > > > > > You complain to much for no real reason. > > > > > > > > > > I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly. > > > > > > > > > > Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not. > > > > > > > > Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky. > > > > > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > > > These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all.... > > > > > > > > > you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post > > > > > > condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. > > > > > > Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > > > > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > > > > > > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. > > > > > > again you don't know what you're talking about > > > > > > i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are > > > > > > i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write > > > > > > i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game > > > > Talking a bit more from being a none Mesmer player (I mainly play guardian), I think all nerfs to axe and jaunt should be reversed. IMO, the issue always was with the clone spam and this is where all the changes should have focused. All phantasm should only spawn one clone. Clones take 15% less hp. > > > > This Kees the damage in the weapons and not clone spam shatter. Would have been much better for everyone. It would keep Condi Mirage meta and reduce the annoyance of fighting mirage. > > Exactly. I was never a big fan of cheesing Deceptive Evasion (the clone factory trait) but Anet forced it by destroying alternatives. Same way killing portal forced Illusionary Ambush, only for them to nearly double the c/d on a subsequent patch. Delete axe, leaving only clunky but somehow OP scepter which will be nerfed next. See how this works? > > No need to reduce clone HP though. They're paper that pop with cleaves, AOEs, and some autos already. Not only Deceptive evasion. Lots of weapons spawn too many clones today. Scepter 2, staff, axe 2, even shield. It's terrible. And it still remains, just like chronophantasma. I am happy condi mirage got nerfed, but they did it all wrong just like many other classes that got nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet > > > > > > > > > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else > > > > > > > > > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem > > > > > > > > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank. > > > > > > > > You complain to much for no real reason. > > > > > > I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly. > > > > > > Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not. > > > > Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky. > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all.... > > > you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post > > condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. > > Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. > > again you don't know what you're talking about > > i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are > > i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write > > i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game If you struggle on mirage, you, sir, are the one who does not know what high ELO is. All classes have viable builds for high ELO right now, with Ele being borderline. Mesmer may have the most viable builds of any class, including condi mirage. Besides, ranked is a joke right now. Has been since like S7/S8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 I agree, having too many amulets is opressing me with the freedom of choice, get rid of it! I wan't the predictability of uniformity, it's safe and simple. #builddiversityisbad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > I agree, having too many amulets is opressing me with the freedom of choice, get rid of it! I wan't the predictability of uniformity, it's safe and simple. #builddiversityisbad And how will this kill builds? Will they not just end up running Marauder's instead? My gods, the overexaggeration here is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightstalker.1498 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 | **Class** | **Base Health** | **Base Armor** | **Practical For Toughness no Vitality Amulet?** | **Trait That Grants Vitality or Increased Health** | |--------------|-------------|------------|-----------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Warrior | 19212 | 2167 | Yes | Great Fortitude, 10% of Power, meaning minimum 100 Vitality | | Revenant | 15922 | 2167 | Yes | Demonic Resistance, 10% of condition damage. Draconic Fortitude, 10% increase | | Guardian | 11645 | 2167 | Not Really | Force of Will, +300 Vitality | | Ranger | 15922 | 2029 | Yes | Taste for Danger, +120 Vitality | | Engineer | 15922 | 2029 | Yes | Big Boomer, 5% Vitality and 5% Ferocity based on power, 50 minimum each | | Thief | 11645 | 2029 | No | | | Necromancer | 19212 | 1888 | Yes | Vital Persistence, +180 Vitality | | Mesmer | 15922 | 1888 | Yes | | | Elementalist | 11645 | 1888 | No | Master's Fortitude, +120 Vitality | . . . . It is mostly excludes the lowest tier of health. While those in the lowest tier of armor suddenly can become psuedo mid or top tier armor with enough health, damage, and defenses to make it unfun if not unfair to play against. . I wonder if there are traits that double the effects of protection? . These type of amulets favor classes that already have tanky skills, traits, and health while leaving out the lower tier. Anything a lower tier can run **PRACTICALLY**, an upper tier can run, but not the other way around. . The lower tiers need adjustments to their offensive boosting traits to even begin to justifying amulets like these. . **Demolisher is really the only amulet with toughness that should go, it just is an unfair advantage in a system created to divide those by health and armor rating.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incisorr.9502 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"incisorr.9502" said: > > > > > > Today out of 10 games i've been in 7 or so games with 6+ people using demolisher's amulet > > > > > > > > > > > > arena net sure knows how to balance things owo. better nerf condi every single patch until we're left with only classes that can abuse demo amulet and nothing else > > > > > > > > > > > > if condi wasn;'t as weak and nonexistent as it is now, this amulet wouldnt be such big problem > > > > > > > > > > Condi Mirage still being played and wrecking through pugs in rank/unrank. > > > > > > > > > > You complain to much for no real reason. > > > > > > > > I think you are confusing player skill with build effectiveness. I have been playing core warrior, berserker amulet, axe/axe and sword/shield, and wrecking it. I am confident this is not due to this build being good (it is borderline terrible) but cuz I am skilled enough. And in games where I play with equally skilled opponents, I perform poorly. > > > > > > > > Just cuz there are some Condi Mirages out there that can do very well, that does not mean the build performs well. As it stands it surely does not. > > > > > > Condi Mirage In general Isn't hard to play and it's still very strong in Rank and Unrank. The build itself carries ALOT of bad players, The issue at the moment is that instead of axe you have to use Scepter which A lot of players dont like using because it's a bit clunky. > > > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > These classes beside warriors are some what limited to how much condi removal they have and wont last long vs the condi mirage at all.... > > > > > > you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post > > > > condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. > > > > Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > > > > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. > > > > again you don't know what you're talking about > > > > i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are > > > > i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write > > > > i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game > > If you struggle on mirage, you, sir, are the one who does not know what high ELO is. All classes have viable builds for high ELO right now, with Ele being borderline. Mesmer may have the most viable builds of any class, including condi mirage. > > Besides, ranked is a joke right now. Has been since like S7/S8. i've been / finishing legendary for more than half a year, i know which names i recognize and which ones i don't and usually the people i recognize even agree with me you know the way this game works is that it first tries to find people around your elo , right? so if i haven't seen someone while also playing with the top people then he's sitting on lower elo mirage isn't viable it's not played at all on high elo, idk what are you even talking about lmao in the past half year there's been less mirages than any other class in top 50 except ele and even ele has had bigger presence at times than mirage. Every single other class has much bigger representation you're just refusing to look at statistics and at facts and then posting a blatant trollbait with your "opinion" tied to it but you have zero credibility mirage has been underplayed for a very long time and now it's non-existent, you meet one condi mirage per 5 games now while meeting 4+ thieves/revenants per game and occasionally 4x warriors or engis as for chrono, chrono isn't mirage. It might be the same base class but chrono is broken because of chrono stuff that it has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 / deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodesh.2851 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 DELETE AMULETS. Let everyone pick two primary and two secondary stats. EZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Nothing rustles my jimmies more than when people use the term “elo” when referring to GW2 ratings. Elo is a rating system that GW2 doesn’t use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 Demolisher's is fine. It's the meta around it that's the problem. Demolisher thrives over marauders when power builds have lots of resustain. Hence why every scrapper, holosmith, spellbreaker, chronobunk and boonbeast are going to run it. If your level of self healing means your opponent needs to pump 40k or more in one fight to potentially put you down, the extra damage reduction lets you double dip on defensive value for every point of healing. On an engineer for example, if I recall the number crunching I did a year ago correctly, in a complete vacuum, Demolisher's is about a 22% increase in effective health through toughness while Marauder's is a 30% increase in effective health. But if you look at the fight with the perspective of how much healing a holosmith might get from heal turret which is hands down the best healing skill in the game, Compounding Chemicals constantly ticking health since Holosmiths boon themselves nonstop, you could potentially have to deal 40k-60k damage just to put the holosmith down. In this scenario Demolisher's is still a 22% increase in effective health on 40k health through healing, while maurader's only ends up being a 12% increase in effective health. Really though, the problem isn't demolisher. The problem is two-fold; the level of sustain many builds have right now, especially the ones mentioned in my opening paragraph. The second problem and the main problem is that aside from scourges nothing is running tons of condition damage anymore. Demolishers wouldn't be such an obvious choice if 90% of the builds you're going to fight against weren't all power, and you're just as likely to run into condition warriors, thieves, revenants, engineers, rangers, elementalists, and guardians as you are their power variants. If this were a condition meta Marauder's would be far more desirable. Because conditions don't care about toughness and it could potentially be a completely worthless stat for you to pick while the vitality from Marauder's still increases your effective health against condition damage and isn't completely useless, and still works against power damage too. I think Rune of Earth however is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more disgusting than Demolishe's Amulet. It's aways going to be good no matter what kind of meta, power, condi, bunker, because of the free passive reflection aura and healing effectiveness and I think we're already in a Rune of Surging situation where literally everything is running it. > @"kodesh.2851" said: > DELETE AMULETS. Let everyone pick two primary and two secondary stats. EZ. And let sentinels and cleric effectively back in the game? Let Dire and Trailblazer become a thing? Yeah no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 > you're just clueless and have never actually seen high elo and that's why you believe the stuff you post > > condi mirage is non-existent on high elo, out of 2 days playing i don't think i've met a single condi mirage other than myself. I met a few interrupt mirages and some power ones but not condi. Also saying that scepter replaced axe is just false, scepter didn't replace anything it's just that axe became completely obsolete. > > Condi mirage on high elo simply isn't strong. It can't do anything about thief any more and is even worse vs all its old bad matchups. You can't even kill necros any more because you simply don't have enough condi pressure on them and you have much worse range and less hp > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > This Incisorr dude just complains about mirage in general being weak when it isn't lmfao. Condi Mirage > Warrior, Rifle Holo, Rev and Necro. > > > > > > Assuming that by "warrior" you mean core and Berserker (because surely you don't mean Spellbreaker), and by Necro you mean all types, saying that condi-Mirage is only better than 6* out of 27 core and elite specializations in the game tends to prove the opposite of what you are implying. > > > > > > *Didn't count Rifle Holo because that's a build, not a spec. > > > > No I mean Speall Breaker. You should Assume I'm talking about what's currently Meta/Being Played. You Won't see Core Warrior let alone Berserk in any competitive match up's unless your in low rank games/unrank games. > > again you don't know what you're talking about > > i saw a core warrior 2h ago in "high elo" game and core warriors are actually better vs mirage than spellbreakers are > > i don't understand why do you talk about high elo when it's blatantly obvious you're not playing on high elo based on the things you write > > i don't understand why people in gw2 talk trash when your account name is visible on the forum and in game so everyone knows who you are in game It's like....talking to a wall lmao. Condi Mirage isn't "none-Existent" like your saying. Helio On his account has been On condi Mirage. This is a TOP END PLAYER in NA who's constantly always Winning monthly within the past year and always in the top 3 of each rank season. Possibly the BEST player in NA. If he's PLAYING on condi mirage then it isn't "useless" or "weak". Scepter didn't replace axe? what in the fuck? Who ever said that Core warrior isn't better then spellbreaker? I sure didn't.... Just because you SAW a core warrior in a game doesn't mean your ALWAYS going to see a core warrior in every game you play. Core warriors aren't better then spellbreaker in sustaining 1vs X on a node. It's literally the reason why spellbreaker gets player over core warrior because it's able to sustain itself longer then what a core warrior would. I mean from everything you posted in the last few weeks it just shows your either really ignorant or just some really really bad washed up mirage player who's been butt hurt about the changes to a class because it wont carry you anymore. I'm usually around in the 1700s rating on Necro/Engi in Na. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodesh.2851 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 > > DELETE AMULETS. Let everyone pick two primary and two secondary stats. EZ. > > And let sentinels and cleric effectively back in the game? Let Dire and Trailblazer become a thing? Yeah no thanks. I mean certain combos could be locked out, but yeah I'd like every option available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > It's like....talking to a wall lmao. Condi Mirage isn't "none-Existent" like your saying. Helio On his account has been On condi Mirage. This is a TOP END PLAYER in NA who's constantly always Winning monthly within the past year and always in the top 3 of each rank season. Possibly the BEST player in NA. If he's PLAYING on condi mirage then it isn't "useless" or "weak". Wouldn't "the best player in NA" probably do okay on almost any build? So can't really use that to prove that a certain build isn't.. I'll use the words "under performing". Also, if we're looking at mAT outcomes, one presumes there's some team composition and strategy that contributes to the build succeeding there. Ordinary solo-queue is a different situation, isn't it? > Scepter didn't replace axe? what in the kitten? It didn't exactly replace it. More like it's the only decent main hand option left, according to the popular meta anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > I agree, having too many amulets is opressing me with the freedom of choice, get rid of it! I wan't the predictability of uniformity, it's safe and simple. #builddiversityisbad > > And how will this kill builds? Will they not just end up running Marauder's instead? > > My gods, the overexaggeration here is ridiculous. Yeah, why would anyone not just swap Demo for Marauder's on their reaper... perfect fit. Or on their bunkers... after all, vitality tanks are totaly viable! Marauder's only sees play because some classes have too low base HP(with condi not being a major concern, thoughness is always more valuable once you have the bare minimum of vitality). So no, of course they wouldn't just slot in Marauder's and keep playing the same builds. People will try to find a replacement for their new builds, and you'll have a few people who choose a more offensive amulet (Berserker's/Marauder's), and the overwhelming majority that choose a more defensive one. The meta would shift sharply towards more bunkerish plays. With the exception of Soulbeast and Herald, all roamer builds got heavily toned down in recent patches.(Imagine what if next patch keeps addint to this trend) Lowering roamer damage+forcing people into more defensive bunker amulets would just bring 2014 back. So long story short, keep the "offensive bunker" amulet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Posted April 6, 2019 Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 Just nerf the toughness on Paladin's amulet and every 4-stat to match the 3-stat amulets. EDIT: For clarification...the difference between 3-stat totals and 4-stat totals is 220. Depending on where you drop the 220 it can impact the amulet noticeably. On Paladin..........560 Toughness goes down to 340. On Marauder's..........560 Vitality goes down to 340. Deadshot..........560 Vitality goes down to 340. (I guess Demolisher's)..........560 Toughness does down to 340. Sage's..........560 Vitality goes down to 340. Mender's...........560 Vitality goes down to 340. Notice I'm mainly having the nerfs affect the sustain-side of the amulets. Celestial is an exception because it has equally-weighted stats that don't have any large sums in any area. In 4-stats I can see why ArenaNet decided to add a bit more to the amulets... in the fear that nobody would use them. Except, that's hardly the case. The majority of people are using 4-stats ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said: > Just nerf the toughness on Paladin's amulet and every 4-stat to match the 3-stat amulets. > > EDIT: For clarification...the difference between 3-stat totals and 4-stat totals is 220. Depending on where you drop the 220 it can impact the amulet noticeably. > > On Paladin..........560 Toughness goes down to 340. > > On Marauder's..........560 Vitality goes down to 340. > > Deadshot..........560 Vitality goes down to 340. > > (I guess Demolisher's)..........560 Toughness does down to 340. > > Sage's..........560 Vitality goes down to 340. > > Mender's...........560 Vitality goes down to 340. > > Notice I'm mainly having the nerfs affect the sustain-side of the amulets. > > Celestial is an exception because it has equally-weighted stats that don't have any large sums in any area. In 4-stats I can see why ArenaNet decided to add a bit more to the amulets... in the fear that nobody would use them. Except, that's hardly the case. The majority of people are using 4-stats ATM. You do know, there are classes with low HP pool. Weaver and guardian dps are not remotely meta and you are suggesting cutting HP down from 17k to 15k... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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