Sunshine.5014 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Is Ele casting/animation speed too slow and clunky? Can you finish casting your spells before a thief finishes their combo? Ele spells seem to be on extremes, either instant cast (which allows no counter play), or very slow casting/animation/rooting (for the benefits they provide). What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganathar.4956 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 The casting time is too long on certain spells, such as churning earth and overloads, but that is not even the biggest issue. You also have longer after-casts and the most egregious one has to be the enormous delays on skills that are not even that special in regards to damage. Skills such as, ice spike, dragon's tooth, eruption and shatterstone all have delays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretsauce.7689 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 For staff i would say certainly, but it has a little bit less to do with the cast times and more to do with the mechanics of staffs skills that accompany those cast times. Fireball has a longer cast time than other autos for other attunements. Lava Font's damage is delayed for some reason. Meteor Shower roots you on top of having a very long cast time. Ice Spike and Geyser could have a 1/2 cast time instead of 3/4 but otherwise water is pretty fine as is Lightning Surge could be sped up, and Gust could have faster projectile speed but outside of those two air is fine. Eruption has an extremely long cast time for some reason on despite already having an extremely long delay before it actually blows up, and Shock Wave has the same issues Gust has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine.5014 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Eles have many balance issues, but I'd love to see the devs reducing the casting/animation speed before over-buffing Ele. Just reduce cast time to 1/4s (and remove animation time) in the internal server to see if that would make Ele gameplay more fluid. Ele is pretty clunky in PvP and WvW because a majority of its spells are not even worth considering casting, due to the long casting/animation/rooting time. The other set of spells that are instant cast are then over-used, even when they are not very strong--just because the slow casting ones are worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme.3602 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Staff auto attacks are too slow. Earth is badder than bad and doesn't compare to Fire. Air is shocking—no pun intended. No, I did intend it. Air is just as bad. They're all bad, so make them all like the Fire auto attack and increase the speed. It wouldn't hurt to fix the trajectory either, because as we all know, nobody auto attacks with Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 They can easily rework earth on staff to be more melee friendly because it's pretty useless with most skills. Skill 1: aoe cone with bleeding/cripple/weakness. Skill 2 (churning earth can also be made similarly): pulsing PBAoE in same radius instead of one long channel that doesn't even do high damage. Skill 5: something like daredevil's staff 5 but instead of doing high power damage it applies bleed, cripple and immobilize or some kind of aoe damage/cc reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Yes they are to slow but it should be an skill and or effect that the ele must do to speed them up. Core ele needs self quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 theres only a couple that are too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinta.8906 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 only a couple? i guess ur hint means fa scepter weaver and you are right about the one wombocombo it has. but every other weapon has way to high pre and after casts esp on their burst skills (and ele has not many of them in the first place): - meteorshower - piledriver - lightning surge - firegrab - churning earth (fun fact u cant even stow this one properly in its huge precast) - every auto attack on staff - ice spike - dragon tooth - phoenix if u even get access to it - every warhorn skill is to slow - tailored victory weaver elite (u need stab to cast ur elite spell that does no dmg or u get interrupted cause melee bigthonk) - **overall global atunement cooldown** (chill is way to powerfull because of it) (shatterstone is really good now thx for the buffs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Combined with the short range of most of the sword skills, it sometimes look like my character is trying to carefully thread a needle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburner.6945 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"Jski.6180" said: > Yes they are to slow but it should be an skill and or effect that the ele must do to speed them up. Core ele needs self quickness. This would mostly solve most issues for ele, but the only skill I would say would be broken is Meteor Shower. When there is a chrono or a FB that give me Quickness at the start of the fight, watching meteors falling like Rapidfire is way too satisfying and the enemy struggles to defend, it's like practicing the broken skill that got nerfed a lot and was broken on golem/bosses with Quickness, but on players instead. If there is no possibility to be able to get any Quickness as a class, then channeling, after-channeling and delays should be reduced. Sometimes I have to delay my damage to not be locked into animations that will surely get me killed (Sword Fire #2). And as Dahir said, the auto attacks on staff are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 but speeding up ele's attacks is going to increase their huge golem dps benchmarks (we ask that you think about Tyria as a whole when considering balance changes) & you gotta think about how the top 1e-100% of players can now abuse the 20 skills available to be the legendary unkillable god ele to stomp all other casuals in the game and it also doesn't match the theme of being an ele. Nope, that's unacceptable, not going to happen, never a chance from this balance team. also, a reminder that you're posting in a trash subforum that nobody reads. Just be happy there's a tooltip bugfix today for eles :+1: (spoiler: it's not down state mist form related) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburner.6945 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > They can easily rework earth on staff to be more melee friendly because it's pretty useless with most skills. > > Skill 1: aoe cone with bleeding/cripple/weakness. > > Skill 2 (churning earth can also be made similarly): pulsing PBAoE in same radius instead of one long channel that doesn't even do high damage. > > Skill 5: something like daredevil's staff 5 but instead of doing high power damage it applies bleed, cripple and immobilize or some kind of aoe damage/cc reduction. I long for this skill 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I think most animations are about the right speed. I think the impaired movement on certain animations worse. I hate rooting skills like meteor shower or dagger earth 5. I wish to improve those skills and utilities of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Nothing makes me fall asleep faster than using the Fireball Staff skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"LazySummer.2568" said: > but speeding up ele's attacks is going to increase their huge golem dps benchmarks (we ask that you think about Tyria as a whole when considering balance changes) & you gotta think about how the top 1e-100% of players can now abuse the 20 skills available to be the legendary unkillable god ele to stomp all other casuals in the game and it also doesn't match the theme of being an ele. Nope, that's unacceptable, not going to happen, never a chance from this balance team. > > also, a reminder that you're posting in a trash subforum that nobody reads. Just be happy there's a tooltip bugfix today for eles :+1: (spoiler: it's not down state mist form related) Even if God - ele became a thing, it would only effect like 10% of the ele community. So how much is that?... Times by 2? Minus the 3, add 7... Like 3 players? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburner.6945 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Why do we always mention "Perfect Player" when thinking of any Ele buff, but never think of the same adjective when with other classes? If there is a convincing answer, I am down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine.5014 Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 > @"LazySummer.2568" said: > but speeding up ele's attacks is going to increase their huge golem dps benchmarks (we ask that you think about Tyria as a whole when considering balance changes) & you gotta think about how the top 1e-100% of players can now abuse the 20 skills available to be the legendary unkillable god ele to stomp all other casuals in the game and it also doesn't match the theme of being an ele. Nope, that's unacceptable, not going to happen, never a chance from this balance team. > > also, a reminder that you're posting in a trash subforum that nobody reads. Just be happy there's a tooltip bugfix today for eles :+1: (spoiler: it's not down state mist form related) Yes, reducing casting/animation time should be accompanied by a slight tweak in damage scaling factor. I don't expect the total damage to change dramatically, since the cooldown is still the same for non-autoattack skills. Skills without cooldown definitely should have their damage scaling changed appropriately after casting time reduction. The main goal is to make Ele gameplay less clunky and more fluid, not to over-buff Ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helicity.3416 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Even certain scepter auto attacks take forever to get going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinta.8906 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 in core times someone did the math that scepter autos are the worst autos ingame on any set over all professions for how long they take and how much dmg they do (if u have a target that is). they never got touched so you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrod.9240 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 > @"Auburner.6945" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Yes they are to slow but it should be an skill and or effect that the ele must do to speed them up. Core ele needs self quickness. > > This would mostly solve most issues for ele, but the only skill I would say would be broken is Meteor Shower. When there is a chrono or a FB that give me Quickness at the start of the fight, watching meteors falling like Rapidfire is way too satisfying and the enemy struggles to defend, it's like practicing the broken skill that got nerfed a lot and was broken on golem/bosses with Quickness, but on players instead. > > If there is no possibility to be able to get any Quickness as a class, then channeling, after-channeling and delays should be reduced. Sometimes I have to delay my damage to not be locked into animations that will surely get me killed (Sword Fire #2). > > And as Dahir said, the auto attacks on staff are awful. [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity") Have it on my core ele in WvW. It is a perfect fit vs. zergs as it triggers on static field. Bonus, also works on gust. Suddenly your fireballs arent that slow anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburner.6945 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 > @"Nimrod.9240" said: > > @"Auburner.6945" said: > > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > > Yes they are to slow but it should be an skill and or effect that the ele must do to speed them up. Core ele needs self quickness. > > > > This would mostly solve most issues for ele, but the only skill I would say would be broken is Meteor Shower. When there is a chrono or a FB that give me Quickness at the start of the fight, watching meteors falling like Rapidfire is way too satisfying and the enemy struggles to defend, it's like practicing the broken skill that got nerfed a lot and was broken on golem/bosses with Quickness, but on players instead. > > > > If there is no possibility to be able to get any Quickness as a class, then channeling, after-channeling and delays should be reduced. Sometimes I have to delay my damage to not be locked into animations that will surely get me killed (Sword Fire #2). > > > > And as Dahir said, the auto attacks on staff are awful. > [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Celerity") > > Have it on my core ele in WvW. It is a perfect fit vs. zergs as it triggers on static field. > Bonus, also works on gust. Suddenly your fireballs arent that slow anymore. Might try this instead of Force Sigil as 5% don't seem to be that much for WvW purposes. Also, from what I've read is that disable Traits/Runes/etc. proc even with Stab, so I hope that's the case as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteZero.9736 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I mainly run around with staves and sometimes swords. They're both slow and I with the changes to Meteor Shower and Lava Font, the skills can stand to have a bit more speed in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine.5014 Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 > @"DanteZero.9736" said: > I mainly run around with staves and sometimes swords. They're both slow and I with the changes to Meteor Shower and Lava Font, the skills can stand to have a bit more speed in them. Lava Font should deal damage as soon as it finished casting. **Ele damage is good**. The root cause of why the majority of Ele's skills being terrible in WvW and PvP is the **cast time, the animation time, the rooting, and the delayed damage**. None of that is suitable for a fast pace mode that should reward timing and good reaction. We keep buffing other parts of Ele (like shatter stone?) but **we leave the root cause untouched.** That's why Ele has been hard to balance. Ele tends to have the lowest damage in PvP and WvW roaming, but have the highest damage in PvE and WvW Zerg. The reason is obvious. The damage is right, if it can land. Due to the above casting/animation/rooting/delayed damage, Ele damage vs intelligent opponents is low, unless the Ele **abuse instant cast spells (which avoid all the 4 problems above).** By retuning the casting/animation/rooting/delayed damage, ANet can balance Ele for PvE without affecting Ele in PvP and WvW. I'd love to see ANet consider this :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Stop asking for the removal of risk. The rest of the game needs more risk rather than for more risk to be removed from basic actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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