Psycoprophet.8107 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > @"foste.3098" > > Not bad, but only half of it is correct. > > @"Crab Fear.1624" > > Mm that's a little different. I'm a ranger main. I've been playing it since release so you'd expect at this point, I'd be good enough to handle/win outnumbered fights if everything goes according to plan. On the other hand, I rarely play thief. I haven't really touched it since daredevil was OP at HoT release. I _shouldn't_ be holding/winning outnumbered fights consistently on this class (strictly from an experience/practice standpoint). If I'm able to pull these feats off (which I was also able to do on builds like CI mirage, despite not having extensive training on it) there's an issue. > > That's not saying that players like Anya, Helio, and I can't be effective on a multitude of different classes and play them how they should be played. My point is, we shouldn't be able to roll over/troll 3/5 members of the enemy team indefinitely without really trying just because there's a broken build that's easy to abuse. > > Also, that was my intention. I'll give hints. However, I'm not just going to post the build for every other thief to copy and paste and ruin the next ranked season. You guessed correctly on a lot of them, incorrectly on others. I won't say which ones until there's (an extremely unlikely) dev response that lets us know that the build will be addressed. > > Furthermore, this is besides the point. But, the build is very versatile and fun to play (albeit having a very low skill floor to be effective). So, I will gladly be shelving my ranger and taking advantage of this next season as I predict others will as well. Hopefully, then, it will get fixed. U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words. I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) I did... lol https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > I did... lol > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > > > I did... lol > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 > > All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? Yeah you're missing it lol Did you actually read the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > > > > > I did... lol > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 > > > > All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? > > Yeah you're missing it lol > > Did you actually read the post? I quickly went thru vid and looked like some mobile game than some ranger gameplay. Did I skip over the thief gameplay? I looked again and missed it again lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > > > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > > > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > > > > > > > I did... lol > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 > > > > > > All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? > > > > Yeah you're missing it lol > > > > Did you actually read the post? > > I quickly went thru vid and looked like some mobile game than some ranger gameplay. Did I skip over the thief gameplay? I looked again and missed it again lol Read the post. Do I need to tell you a third time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > > > > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > > > > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > > > > > > > > > I did... lol > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 > > > > > > > > All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? > > > > > > Yeah you're missing it lol > > > > > > Did you actually read the post? > > > > I quickly went thru vid and looked like some mobile game than some ranger gameplay. Did I skip over the thief gameplay? I looked again and missed it again lol > > Read the post. Do I need to tell you a third time? Gues so cuz I re read ur posts (dont have time to read every word again) but all I see is u saying ur a ranger main that knows about some magic thief build that ur shelving ur ranger for next season. I asked for a vid showcasing said magic thief build and u sent me a post saying u did provide a vid and I watched it and it contains ranger game play not thief so.... I apologize for my confusion but either way I care little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > > > > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > > > > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > > > > > > > > > I did... lol > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 > > > > > > > > All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? > > > > > > Yeah you're missing it lol > > > > > > Did you actually read the post? > > > > I quickly went thru vid and looked like some mobile game than some ranger gameplay. Did I skip over the thief gameplay? I looked again and missed it again lol > > Read the post. Do I need to tell you a third time? It's the new tactic, to act completely confused about some well laid out & explained point made with evidence attached. They've done it to me two or three times now in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAYZlNw6YXsFGJmaXVNbA-z5IeGZqCSYK4hB Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kylden Ar.3724 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Ah, I see. The whiners got the Mesmer completely gutted, and are now moving on to the only other high-mobility dueling class to get that nerfed into the ground too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > U say all this as it's been all said before from non thief players but at the end of it all thief is and will remain a mediocre 1v1'er and its main role will remain as a +1 decapper. We'll see who's proved right next season. Lastly all ur claims can be said on the forums by anyone and any class, doesn't make it true in any way. > > > > > > > **Post some vids of u showcasing this insane build showing it's so called effectiveness and until then it's all just words.** > > > > > > > I have a core guard build that one shots every spec no matter their build, has crazy mobility, zero counter play and never goes below 75%hp. I regularly 1v10 successfully on it. See how easy it is :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I did... lol > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962 > > > > > > > > > > All I see is ranger gameplay, am I missing the amazing thief build gameplay? > > > > > > > > Yeah you're missing it lol > > > > > > > > Did you actually read the post? > > > > > > I quickly went thru vid and looked like some mobile game than some ranger gameplay. Did I skip over the thief gameplay? I looked again and missed it again lol > > > > Read the post. Do I need to tell you a third time? > > Gues so cuz I re read ur posts (dont have time to read every word again) but all I see is u saying ur a ranger main that knows about some magic thief build that ur shelving ur ranger for next season. I asked for a vid showcasing said magic thief build and u sent me a post saying u did provide a vid and I watched it and it contains ranger game play not thief so.... > I apologize for my confusion but either way I care little. Read the (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"saerni.2584" said: > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" > > The cooldown on Deadly Ambition is already 5 seconds in WvW/PvP. > > Edit: > > I’d also state I’m not saying “no don't nerf my Body Shot” as much as “Meh I don’t use it because that would be a damage loss even if I took Panic Strike.” > > Is Lotus a 100% chance on the finisher? It’s been a while since I’ve played Daredevil...that might be a potential way to tone it down slightly without gutting it. There is no need to nerf body shot. It does nothing untoward and the case against it ignores game mechanics. You can not swap weapons at will and you are limited by INI. If I am in SB and fire of a Choking gas to create a field I got all of 3 seconds to use that field if I swap to p/d to use body shot. You are lucky to get two shots off and then are without a field for 7 seconds. If one wants to maximize the condition damage via Combo fields it best to remain in SB so you can recreate those fields as INI permits thus leveraging your projectiles (Sb ! and 4 ) and your impaling lotus whirl. Switching to P/d after laying down a single field is not doing more damge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" > > > > The cooldown on Deadly Ambition is already 5 seconds in WvW/PvP. > > > > Edit: > > > > I’d also state I’m not saying “no don't nerf my Body Shot” as much as “Meh I don’t use it because that would be a damage loss even if I took Panic Strike.” > > > > Is Lotus a 100% chance on the finisher? It’s been a while since I’ve played Daredevil...that might be a potential way to tone it down slightly without gutting it. > > There is no need to nerf body shot. It does nothing untoward and the case against it ignores game mechanics. > > You can not swap weapons at will and you are limited by INI. If I am in SB and fire of a Choking gas to create a field I got all of 3 seconds to use that field if I swap to p/d to use body shot. You are lucky to get two shots off and then are without a field for 7 seconds. If one wants to maximize the condition damage via Combo fields it best to remain in SB so you can recreate those fields as INI permits thus leveraging your projectiles (Sb ! and 4 ) and your impaling lotus whirl. > > Switching to P/d after laying down a single field is not doing more damge. What is wrong with you? Did you not notice how I mentioned "It is an assist skill, for +ing". Referencing was to its strength in contrast to other similar assist skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"babazhook.6805" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" > > > > > > The cooldown on Deadly Ambition is already 5 seconds in WvW/PvP. > > > > > > Edit: > > > > > > I’d also state I’m not saying “no don't nerf my Body Shot” as much as “Meh I don’t use it because that would be a damage loss even if I took Panic Strike.” > > > > > > Is Lotus a 100% chance on the finisher? It’s been a while since I’ve played Daredevil...that might be a potential way to tone it down slightly without gutting it. > > > > There is no need to nerf body shot. It does nothing untoward and the case against it ignores game mechanics. > > > > You can not swap weapons at will and you are limited by INI. If I am in SB and fire of a Choking gas to create a field I got all of 3 seconds to use that field if I swap to p/d to use body shot. You are lucky to get two shots off and then are without a field for 7 seconds. If one wants to maximize the condition damage via Combo fields it best to remain in SB so you can recreate those fields as INI permits thus leveraging your projectiles (Sb ! and 4 ) and your impaling lotus whirl. > > > > Switching to P/d after laying down a single field is not doing more damge. > > What is wrong with you? > > Did you not notice how I mentioned "It is an assist skill, for +ing". > > Referencing was to its strength in contrast to other similar assist skills. I was not refereincing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > Let me ask ypu a question: why do you think the the old Anet in Guild Wars 1 didn't bring this Toxic Thief in Guild Wars 1? Simple: GW1 engine couldn't handle ground-targeting or stealth. Everything else was in the Assassin. > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > @"Crab Fear.1624" @"Alatar.7364" @"Daishi.6027" @"Azure The Heartless.3261" @"Psycoprophet.8107" @"mortrialus.3062" @"mrauls.6519" @"babazhook.6805" @"Kageseigi.2150" @"foste.3098" @"Burnfall.9573" @"Safandula.8723" @"Tsuchinoko.7546" @"Fat Disgrace.4275" @"Tycura.1982" @"KrHome.1920" @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" @"Whitworth.7259" @"shadowpass.4236" @"saerni.2584" > > Took me a bit. Haven't really been in the mood to record lately. > > First I want to say that this build is the Staff/Shortbow Condi that people are talking about, but I actually vouched to take Single Pistol with no offhand over Staff. What is the difference? Well I can't stay in the middle of a team fight quite as long as Staff/SB Condi, but what I'm running has a lot more chase potential and ability to secure single target kills. As an old Ranger player, I prefer it that way. > > Secondly I wanted to make clear why I posted this video, because this is a temporary video, and will be deleted when this thread is dead: > > 1. For purposes of debate in this thread. > 2. To demonstrate the ridiculously low skill floor that this build possesses. It's debatable whether this is OP or not in high tier play, but 2 things are certain: It is THE lowest skill foor entry build that has ever existed in Guild Wars 2, and it is strong as hell in an organized 5 man team built around condi stack spam cheese play. > 3. I do not feel that Staff/Acro Power is a problem, or any Core/DE Acro variant. Survivability is fine when damage is harder to deal or land in general. I feel the problem here is within Deadly Arts poison application frequency and how Shortbow #4 Chocking Gas works in conjunction with it. Also, regardless of if one is using a Staff or Pistol with this, the poison application becomes broken. **Remember what I mentioned in an earlier post about how beyond 100% poison uptime has a lot of "hidden damage" so to say. The -33% to heal is hidden damage proportionate to how much the target or targets are able to potentially heal.** If you were attacking a Power Shiro that's not much, but while attacking something like a FB or a Tempest or a Holosmith, that permanent poison application that gets reapplied as soon as it's cleansed, is a lot of hidden damage. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHKbBIKwPw > > Also want to point out that this build is just busted AF in WvW/PvE where Energy Sigils grant +50% endurance, Adventurer is +50% endurance, Sig of Agility is +100% endurance, Foods with +40% endurance regen, Choking Gas is still only 1s interval between Dazes, Access to these Sigils: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption and https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Draining <- actually click that and read what these no CD sigils do for you vs. mobs and large groups of players when you 1vX, and then of course perma AoE weaknes spam. You actually don't need any other weapon other than a Shrotbow with Absorption & Draining in it. You'll never want to swap off that Shortbow because what it is doing with Absorption/Draining is the most powerful kill/survival technique combined into one action, that a Condi Thief can potentially launch on another player. In PvE, this build can EASILY solo anything in the game, so long as it doesn't require mechanics like "4 players need to stand on 4 panels individually to open a door". Nothing in PvE can deal damage to this build. The mobs will stand in your poison pits perma dazing themselves and getting hit with Pulm Strike and the high condi damage in general. If they somehow get past the dazing, then they have perma Weakness spam on them. If they somehow get past the Weakness then the DD has permanent dodging and evading. And then every interrupt on every target, is STEALING 3 boons every time. What? Yup, that's happening. The pve gear stat version of this build can 1vX like no other. > > ~ Edit: Sorry about 480 upload. Not sure what YouTube did there. Normally it always uploads my videos at 1080. No idea what happened, but I'm not fixing this one because it's just a temp video. I suggest watching it in a smaller box instead of full screen. Looks less kitten that way. Kudos for applying the "try it before calling OP" principle. I think part of the problem in that specific build is that ArenaNet didn't consider the possibility of someone using pistol/nothing for anything other than early leveling, and Repeater is balanced on the assumption that it's a flipover for Shadow Strike. 2 initiative is far too little for what it does when you can spam it freely. It's from a later post, but you're definitely right about the Lotus being easier to land than Bound - to the point that when I was originally playing Daredevil in PvE back in the early HoT days, I used Lotus instead of Bound even on power builds because I could dodge freely and still get _something_ out of the trait. Bound requires dodging _towards_ the target or you won't hit anything - Lotus you can just dodge anywhere and likely you'll get a dagger flying in the target's direction. It's just that it went under the radar before because, outside of that annoying permastealth trapper troll build, condi thief (let alone condi daredevil) has never really been viable. So my gut feeling is that Lotus Training might well be the culprit here. Certainly, it seems to be the thing you'd be able to nerf without catching other, non problematic thief builds on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukia.4802 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"mehelpu.7160" said: > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said: > > > @"mehelpu.7160" said: > > > For all those who accuse thief's gameplay being toxic: I challenge you to play the entire next season as a meta s/d core thief. Minimum 300 games. No switches/rerolls, just no gimmicks, no stealth abuse, no one-shot potential, all well rounded power core s/d thief. > > > I bet you change your mind very soon. > > > > And then try s/d condi Daredevil or staff/staff Daredevil for 10 games. I bet you will change your mind again very soon. > > I've tried both. More than 3k games as power core s/d and about 500 games as condi drd. That's why I know what am I talking about. What's your numbers as a thief? Thief main since beta, what is your point? Are you saying DD condi is not easy af or toxic? I would rather d/p be meta again but why when I can play something with a sliver of the effort and do far better. There is 0 skill in DD condi . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 “No skill” and “toxic” aren’t categories Anet uses for balance. I really wish these discussions wouldn’t always end up with people throwing around terms like “cheese” as though the term was a self evident truth that justified whatever nerf they wanted. Those terms are opinions that, basically, something should be nerfed, without any valid/accepted “because” statement. The only “because” I see in these posts is “because it isn’t fun to fight” or “because it doesn’t take enough skill to play.” However, Anet rarely/never balances around “I don’t have fun fighting an opponent.” And, Anet really doesn’t want to exclude people from PvP by requiring a narrow kind of “skill” in order to be able to play PvP. What Anet does balance around is total effectiveness, counterplayability and build diversity. Sticking to those areas will make your arguments not only better, generally, but will make them more appealing and convincing to Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"saerni.2584" said: > “No skill” and “toxic” aren’t categories Anet uses for balance. I really wish these discussions wouldn’t always end up with people throwing around terms like “cheese” as though the term was a self evident truth that justified whatever nerf they wanted. > > Those terms are opinions that, basically, something should be nerfed, without any valid/accepted “because” statement. The only “because” I see in these posts is “because it isn’t fun to fight” or “because it doesn’t take enough skill to play.” > > However, Anet rarely/never balances around “I don’t have fun fighting an opponent.” And, Anet really doesn’t want to exclude people from PvP by requiring a narrow kind of “skill” in order to be able to play PvP. > > What Anet does balance around is total effectiveness, counterplayability and build diversity. Sticking to those areas will make your arguments not only better, generally, but will make them more appealing and convincing to Anet. > I think they have balanced against "not fun to fight" before. I don't think they've ever balanced specifically to raise the skill floor, though (nor should they). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > “No skill” and “toxic” aren’t categories Anet uses for balance. I really wish these discussions wouldn’t always end up with people throwing around terms like “cheese” as though the term was a self evident truth that justified whatever nerf they wanted. > > > > Those terms are opinions that, basically, something should be nerfed, without any valid/accepted “because” statement. The only “because” I see in these posts is “because it isn’t fun to fight” or “because it doesn’t take enough skill to play.” > > > > However, Anet rarely/never balances around “I don’t have fun fighting an opponent.” And, Anet really doesn’t want to exclude people from PvP by requiring a narrow kind of “skill” in order to be able to play PvP. > > > > What Anet does balance around is total effectiveness, counterplayability and build diversity. Sticking to those areas will make your arguments not only better, generally, but will make them more appealing and convincing to Anet. > > > > I think they have balanced against "not fun to fight" before. I don't think they've ever balanced specifically to raise the skill floor, though (nor should they). I’ll review some patch notes but I suspect most “not fun to fight” builds were actually nerfed for other more performance based reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyjoy.5167 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"Dave.6819" said: > So daredevil is the weakest class right now after so many nerfs.. and we still want to nerf it? Sure sure.. Make steal range 100. Delete condi clear on dodge cuz it's so OP (apparently condi players don't know how to cancel their skills while DrD is dodging i guess.) And.. make staff #3 cost 300 initiative. Alrighty. Oh and nerf staff dmg by 99%. Should be okey for like 1 season atleast. The only thing that needs a nerf is poison application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"Greyjoy.5167" said: > > @"Dave.6819" said: > > So daredevil is the weakest class right now after so many nerfs.. and we still want to nerf it? Sure sure.. Make steal range 100. Delete condi clear on dodge cuz it's so OP (apparently condi players don't know how to cancel their skills while DrD is dodging i guess.) And.. make staff #3 cost 300 initiative. Alrighty. Oh and nerf staff dmg by 99%. Should be okey for like 1 season atleast. > > The only thing that needs a nerf is poison application. From what trait or skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehelpu.7160 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > @"mehelpu.7160" said: > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said: > > > > @"mehelpu.7160" said: > > > > For all those who accuse thief's gameplay being toxic: I challenge you to play the entire next season as a meta s/d core thief. Minimum 300 games. No switches/rerolls, just no gimmicks, no stealth abuse, no one-shot potential, all well rounded power core s/d thief. > > > > I bet you change your mind very soon. > > > > > > And then try s/d condi Daredevil or staff/staff Daredevil for 10 games. I bet you will change your mind again very soon. > > > > I've tried both. More than 3k games as power core s/d and about 500 games as condi drd. That's why I know what am I talking about. What's your numbers as a thief? > > Thief main since beta, what is your point? Are you saying DD condi is not easy af or toxic? I would rather d/p be meta again but why when I can play something with a sliver of the effort and do far better. There is 0 skill in DD condi . The point is that condi DD is as easy and toxic as most other meta builds of all the times. They always have some toxicity build in be it CC spam, extraordinary mobility, stealth abuse, sustain abuse, condi spam or a combination of those. The actual problem with condi drd is that people do not want to accept that their main could be beaten by a thief, especially if it was destroing other thief specs for ages. Despite the fact that condi drd sacrifices all the mobility, stealth on demand, surprise +1s, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I want to remind everyone that the OP is complaining about 2 separate builds with very different kits. Acro Staff (side node build): * Acro/Trick/DD * Evasive Side Node Troll * Much Lower Kill Potential (+1 reduce too) ( a 6k vault against light armor (if you are lucky), is still a vault that people will walk out of range from) * Essentially the same build since forever, except reduced steal range, and EF combined Condi Daredevil (S/D): * Deadly/Trick/DD * Limited evades because low vigor access, no stealth, and as you can see lower mobility (no swiftness, choosing a speed rune would lower effectiveness) * If I use s3 to evade, that is less inititive to immobilize you and thereby putting poison applications on you. * Sig of agility, and Spider venom take up 2/3 of the potential stunbreaks, so they only have 1 (probably shadowstep, which is tech 2 but porting back is normally death) * If you dodge infiltrators strike which is easy because the strike that applys the immobile happens only after the port, then the build loses a lot of gas. Rampant? In ranked? And zero complaints until a week after the season ends. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I do not think any thief build is OP right now. Some promote dumb gameplay, but so do a lot of other builds. Could we go back complaining about Mirage please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > I do not think any thief build is OP right now. Some promote dumb gameplay, but so do a lot of other builds. Could we go back complaining about Mirage please? Nerf mirage AND chrono (what's left of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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