Anyone else tried Sind's S/P build?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Few weeks from now there's gonna be nerf pistol whip all over the forums lol

[Dahkeus.8243]

Pistol whip has a history of getting nerfed hard any time it gets even close to meta just because of the type of gameplay it results in. Kind of a shame since thief hasn't been a strong 1v1er for a while, but maybe all the nerfs to other classes will help level the playing field.

[Shao.7236]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> s/p was gutted when anet listed to qq and removed evade at moment of cast. imo they should bring that back and change stun to daze.

 

Nah, they should make the evade uniform to all other weapon evades at ½ second. The evade chaining is what makes it a problem because it lasts forever, too safe and combined with stuff like Escapist's Fortitude makes any condition builds trying to retaliate with no massive instant damage output nearly impossible match up while against power builds you can just rofl away everytime because the evade lasts too long and you have plenty in the following.

 

Making the evade uniform would;

Ask the user to commit the full sequence for damage or back up in case of a retaliation.

Ask the victim to move away or tank damage and while in close range retaliating at the right time when the evade is over with some form of utility.

 

All of that in a proper frame window where Quickness would still keep people safe if using Deadeye and create less smelly cheese when people have the tools to defend themselves. There's a whole 1.25 second to wait for the attack to end which has no telling. The user can easily evade away at anytime and currently that evade sequence is too safe, adjusting those frames would make S/P more engaging to more than just "I got the Dual Wield hit, I'm safe for a bit." mentality down to "If he's going to riposte back at me with something after my evade sequence is over, I will evade again." which is healthier. All of that still have to be timed on either side of the battle which in the end, user still get damage in safely, while asking victims to not panic riposte right away. It comes down to who and what will be committed.

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

See^^^ lol it begins....

[kash.9213]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > s/p was gutted when anet listed to qq and removed evade at moment of cast. imo they should bring that back and change stun to daze.

>

> Nah, they should make the evade uniform to all other weapon evades at ½ second. The evade chaining is what makes it a problem because it lasts forever, too safe and combined with stuff like Escapist's Fortitude makes any condition builds trying to retaliate with no massive instant damage output nearly impossible match up while against power builds you can just rofl away everytime because the evade lasts too long and you have plenty in the following.

>

> Making the evade uniform would;

> Ask the user to commit the full sequence for damage or back up in case of a retaliation.

> Ask the victim to move away or tank damage and while in close range retaliating at the right time when the evade is over with some form of utility.

>

> All of that in a proper frame window where Quickness would still keep people safe if using Deadeye and create less smelly cheese when people have the tools to defend themselves. There's a whole 1.25 second to wait for the attack to end which has no telling. The user can easily evade away at anytime and currently that evade sequence is too safe, adjusting those frames would make S/P more engaging to more than just "I got the Dual Wield hit, I'm safe for a bit." mentality down to "If he's going to riposte back at me with something after my evade sequence is over, I will evade again." which is healthier. All of that still have to be timed on either side of the battle which in the end, user still get damage in safely, while asking victims to not panic riposte right away. It comes down to who and what will be committed.

>

 

Do you mean you're going to "rofl away" after pw is over? If you're teasing pw you're not using it and if you're using it, it's not something you just "rofl away" with while it's active. Am I reading this post wrong?

[Shao.7236]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > s/p was gutted when anet listed to qq and removed evade at moment of cast. imo they should bring that back and change stun to daze.

> >

> > Nah, they should make the evade uniform to all other weapon evades at ½ second. The evade chaining is what makes it a problem because it lasts forever, too safe and combined with stuff like Escapist's Fortitude makes any condition builds trying to retaliate with no massive instant damage output nearly impossible match up while against power builds you can just rofl away everytime because the evade lasts too long and you have plenty in the following.

> >

> > Making the evade uniform would;

> > Ask the user to commit the full sequence for damage or back up in case of a retaliation.

> > Ask the victim to move away or tank damage and while in close range retaliating at the right time when the evade is over with some form of utility.

> >

> > All of that in a proper frame window where Quickness would still keep people safe if using Deadeye and create less smelly cheese when people have the tools to defend themselves. There's a whole 1.25 second to wait for the attack to end which has no telling. The user can easily evade away at anytime and currently that evade sequence is too safe, adjusting those frames would make S/P more engaging to more than just "I got the Dual Wield hit, I'm safe for a bit." mentality down to "If he's going to riposte back at me with something after my evade sequence is over, I will evade again." which is healthier. All of that still have to be timed on either side of the battle which in the end, user still get damage in safely, while asking victims to not panic riposte right away. It comes down to who and what will be committed.

> >

>

> Do you mean you're going to "rofl away" after pw is over? If you're teasing pw you're not using it and if you're using it, it's not something you just "rofl away" with while it's active. Am I reading this post wrong?

 

td;lr of my post, P/W evade uptime is too high. Having at least a telling of when it's over would already make it less annoying to deal with. Although I would prefer uniformity across all the skills.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> snips

 

the best thing anet can do at this point is to enforce a 1/2 sec or what ever time period that can't be canceled so evades cant be chained.

[Exitus.3297]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> > @"Exitus.3297" said:

> > I've literally been using it occasionally in unranked as a joke ever since the most recent change to Swindler's Equilibrium (reduced the cooldown of the effect to 10 seconds and reduced the Steal recharge to 5 seconds), which was months ago. The only difference is that I used Bounding Dodger instead of Unhindered Combatant and grabbed Don't Stop in Acrobatics to compensate. Pairing UC with Acrobatics when Acrobatics already passively gives you Swiftness on Dodges and also has Don't Stop available just seemed like a waste to me. I felt like all I really got out of it was a slightly longer dodge at the cost of occasional Exhaustion. Also the Leap Finisher on Bounding Dodger felt like it synergized better with Black Powder as the build inherently lacked a Leap Finisher otherwise. Just my preference though.

> >

> > Anyway, I figure 1 of 2 things is going to happen if Thieves jump on this bandwagon:

> >

> > 1) People are either going to learn how to counter it or specifically play builds meant to counter it. Take, for example (and this is just 1 example), Auramancer Tempest. Try as a Thief using Pistol Whip against anyone on a team who has Shocking Aura and see how far you get. People will also eventually figure out that the Pistol Whip is their only really source of burst damage, which despite its obnoxious evade during the attack, has a wind-up time and is easily predictable and locks them in place for the duration (basically anyone with Stability can just walk away from it casually).

> >

> > 2) People will complain and cry out for nerfs just because of how many Thieves jumped to the build at once and because of how frustrating it is to fight it. I can't tell you how many players I've come across who have complained about the build being braindead because of "Pistol Whip spam".

> >

> > Knowing ANet, the likely outcome will eventually be 2. With ANet's track record, if/when it does get nerfed, they will likely overnerf it. I sincerely recommend to people that they start thinking of reasonable ways to make the build less spammy without going too overboard. Just my 2 cents.

>

> I'm gonna explain to you why Dash > Bound with one word when it comes to high level PvP

>

> ROTATIONS

>

> Bound makes you slow to rotate and it is one of the biggest reasons why its bad in pvp. Bringing a tempest into ranked or at just for a pistolwhip thief means your team will get farmed, **a short shocking aura isnt gonna break a pw thief lol**. Also dash makes you take -10% damage, **without dash you also have swiftness issues and have to swap rune, using #2 from sword or dodging isnt gonna give enough swiftness for you to rotate.**

>

> You mention people will know they have a windup, stationary etc etc. I have been streaming and i fight the same people in 1v1, the node isnt big enough to kite pistol whips constantly, then you mention stability. Why would you pistolwhip them with stab? You have swipe which is unblockable and traited its like 16-18sec CD not to mention you run Swindlers so you can essentially have "swipe" every what like 10 seconds? No stab in the world will be enough to hold a pw thief, eventually you run out and u cant do anything to the thief. I urge you to check the footage i linked and this is people who is considered top players both in ranked/tournaments. Not to mention you say "predictable" since it has a wind-up. You do know you can STOW the stun part and bait out CDs/dodges?

>

> But my guess is that it will get nerfed yes

 

I highlighted things that stood out to me...

 

I'm not sure how you are going to have Swiftness issues even with Bounding Dodger. Acrobatics gives 7 seconds of Swiftness after a dodge as a Minor Trait. Combine with Infiltrators Strike and a low cooldown Swipe (which 12 seconds if you trait for Swindler's, which of course people will do) alongside Thrill of the Crime, there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't have Swiftness up 24/7 even without UC. But it's a moot point because as I said, it's a preference. If you prefer UC over BD, go for it. It just felt odd to me because I felt like I was gaining only a tiny amount of mobility and a little bit of durability at the cost of more damage, a leap finisher and more evasion from just never having Exhaustion.

 

I'm also not sure what you keep making it out to be that this build is unstoppable. Just because top players run it doesn't make it unstoppable. No, Shocking Aura does not guarantee a win against a PW Thief, but it does force the Thief to either wait it out, swap weapons (meaning no PW for at least 9 seconds) or move on. Smart Auramancers can also easily get 8 seconds of Shocking Aura in a row which is a sizeable reprieve for any Healer or Damage Dealer. Yes, Thieves can steal Stability, but that player can also be smart and not use Stability until after they see the Swipe. No Stability lasts long enough for the short CD on Swipe to a factor anyways, and it that is 12 seconds of that Thief not being able to damage to that player if they know how to kite. Or you can bait the Swipe. Again, I cannot stress enough that these are not automatic wins against a PW Thief, but it does grant sizeable reprieves from the Thief being able to deal any kind of burst damage.

 

That all being said, there is one big thing that needs to be addressed is how frequently a player can spam PW. Not necessarily because of the damage, but because of the evade uptime. That reduced cooldown Swipe means more instances of the Initiative gain from Trickery (2 Initiative every ~12 seconds). If you do run Upper Hand in Acro, that is another 2 Initiative every 10 seconds. PW costs 5 Initiative and the whole animation lasts ~1.5 seconds (the evade is ~1 second). They have gained 1 or 2 Initiative back before the animation has even ended. Combine that with the other previously stated sources of Initiative and it just feels like the Thief can spam PW willy-nilly just for the evade rather than using it for their burst. It is so efficient for what it does that it isn't just its burst skill; it's their everything skill. One thing I thought that ANet could do is just increase the cost of the skill from 5 to 6 Initiative and see where it goes from there.

 

EDIT: Just removing some redundancies in what I said.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"Exitus.3297" said:

> > @"bluri.2653" said:

> > > @"Exitus.3297" said:

> > > I've literally been using it occasionally in unranked as a joke ever since the most recent change to Swindler's Equilibrium (reduced the cooldown of the effect to 10 seconds and reduced the Steal recharge to 5 seconds), which was months ago. The only difference is that I used Bounding Dodger instead of Unhindered Combatant and grabbed Don't Stop in Acrobatics to compensate. Pairing UC with Acrobatics when Acrobatics already passively gives you Swiftness on Dodges and also has Don't Stop available just seemed like a waste to me. I felt like all I really got out of it was a slightly longer dodge at the cost of occasional Exhaustion. Also the Leap Finisher on Bounding Dodger felt like it synergized better with Black Powder as the build inherently lacked a Leap Finisher otherwise. Just my preference though.

> > >

> > > Anyway, I figure 1 of 2 things is going to happen if Thieves jump on this bandwagon:

> > >

> > > 1) People are either going to learn how to counter it or specifically play builds meant to counter it. Take, for example (and this is just 1 example), Auramancer Tempest. Try as a Thief using Pistol Whip against anyone on a team who has Shocking Aura and see how far you get. People will also eventually figure out that the Pistol Whip is their only really source of burst damage, which despite its obnoxious evade during the attack, has a wind-up time and is easily predictable and locks them in place for the duration (basically anyone with Stability can just walk away from it casually).

> > >

> > > 2) People will complain and cry out for nerfs just because of how many Thieves jumped to the build at once and because of how frustrating it is to fight it. I can't tell you how many players I've come across who have complained about the build being braindead because of "Pistol Whip spam".

> > >

> > > Knowing ANet, the likely outcome will eventually be 2. With ANet's track record, if/when it does get nerfed, they will likely overnerf it. I sincerely recommend to people that they start thinking of reasonable ways to make the build less spammy without going too overboard. Just my 2 cents.

> >

> > I'm gonna explain to you why Dash > Bound with one word when it comes to high level PvP

> >

> > ROTATIONS

> >

> > Bound makes you slow to rotate and it is one of the biggest reasons why its bad in pvp. Bringing a tempest into ranked or at just for a pistolwhip thief means your team will get farmed, **a short shocking aura isnt gonna break a pw thief lol**. Also dash makes you take -10% damage, **without dash you also have swiftness issues and have to swap rune, using #2 from sword or dodging isnt gonna give enough swiftness for you to rotate.**

> >

> > You mention people will know they have a windup, stationary etc etc. I have been streaming and i fight the same people in 1v1, the node isnt big enough to kite pistol whips constantly, then you mention stability. Why would you pistolwhip them with stab? You have swipe which is unblockable and traited its like 16-18sec CD not to mention you run Swindlers so you can essentially have "swipe" every what like 10 seconds? No stab in the world will be enough to hold a pw thief, eventually you run out and u cant do anything to the thief. I urge you to check the footage i linked and this is people who is considered top players both in ranked/tournaments. Not to mention you say "predictable" since it has a wind-up. You do know you can STOW the stun part and bait out CDs/dodges?

> >

> > But my guess is that it will get nerfed yes

>

> I highlighted things that stood out to me...

>

> I'm not sure how you are going to have Swiftness issues even with Bounding Dodger. Acrobatics gives 7 seconds of Swiftness after a dodge as a Minor Trait. Combine with Infiltrators Strike and a low cooldown Swipe (which 12 seconds if you trait for Swindler's, which of course people will do) alongside Thrill of the Crime, there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't have Swiftness up 24/7 even without UC. But it's a moot point because as I said, it's a preference. If you prefer UC over BD, go for it. It just felt odd to me because I felt like I was gaining only a tiny amount of mobility and a little bit of durability at the cost of more damage, a leap finisher and more evasion from just never having Exhaustion.

>

> I'm also not sure what you keep making it out to be that this build is unstoppable. Just because top players run it doesn't make it unstoppable. No, Shocking Aura does not guarantee a win against a PW Thief, but it does force the Thief to either wait it out, swap weapons (meaning no PW for at least 9 seconds) or move on. Smart Auramancers can also easily get 8 seconds of Shocking Aura in a row which is a sizeable reprieve for any Healer or Damage Dealer. Yes, Thieves can steal Stability, but that player can also be smart and not use Stability until after they see the Swipe. No Stability lasts long enough for the short CD on Swipe to a factor anyways, and it that is 12 seconds of that Thief not being able to damage to that player if they know how to kite. Or you can bait the Swipe. Again, I cannot stress enough that these are not automatic wins against a PW Thief, but it does grant sizeable reprieves from the Thief being able to deal any kind of burst damage.

>

> That all being said, there is one big thing that needs to be addressed is how frequently a player can spam PW. Not necessarily because of the damage, but because of the evade uptime. That reduced cooldown Swipe means more instances of the Initiative gain from Trickery (2 Initiative every ~12 seconds). If you do run Upper Hand in Acro, that is another 2 Initiative every 10 seconds. PW costs 5 Initiative and the whole animation lasts ~1.5 seconds (the evade is ~1 second). They have gained 1 or 2 Initiative back before the animation has even ended. Combine that with the other previously stated sources of Initiative and it just feels like the Thief can spam PW willy-nilly just for the evade rather than using it for their burst. It is so efficient for what it does that it isn't just its burst skill; it's their everything skill. One thing I thought that ANet could do is just increase the cost of the skill from 5 to 6 Initiative and see where it goes from there.

>

> EDIT: Just removing some redundancies in what I said.

 

No thief build can spam any skill against any player who is competent and come out ahead. It's basically a dodge with .75 sec at the start and .5 sec at the end worth of vulnerability. I suspect most complaints we'll see will be because nobody has really used it all that much, and recent changes have made it a more viable choice. However, it still has very clear weaknesses.

 

 

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> combined with stuff like Escapist's Fortitude makes any condition builds trying to retaliate with no massive instant damage output nearly impossible match up

 

But... the Teef worked so hard to steal Diamond Skin away from the Elementalist. Those darned Elementalists... who would just stand there and literally laugh as your Dire build threw everything you had at them. I can still taste the salt from my own tears. It's time for payback!

 

> **Diamond Skin: Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above 90%.**

[Shao.7236]

> @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > combined with stuff like Escapist's Fortitude makes any condition builds trying to retaliate with no massive instant damage output nearly impossible match up

>

> But... the Teef worked so hard to steal Diamond Skin away from the Elementalist. Those darned Elementalists... who would just stand there and literally laugh as your Dire build threw everything you had at them. I can still taste the salt from my own tears. It's time for payback!

>

> > **Diamond Skin: Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above 90%.**

 

You got it wrong. They have to get hit for conditions to be removed and it only works with more than 75% their health.

[foste.3098]

Within 2 months pw will get nerfed to cost 6 or 7 initiative and have a damage reduction, another 2-4 months after than anet will rework pw in to a 2 skill flip over deal where the 1st skill is a 0.5 sec melee daze that, when connects, flips over in to a high damage 2-hit attack that evades during its cast for 0.5 sec.

 

I was playing s/p dd a long time ago and i can guarantee that bound is better than dash (acro variant) firstly because it gives you more options during a fight and secondly because dash moves you much too far away and the weapon set works best when you are in someones face; dashing away makes it so you have to waste 1-2 seconds (depending on what op is doing) to awkwardly run back in to melee range (or waste another dash to go back in). Any arguments for dash being better because of swiftness are downright insane since you have plenty sources of it, and besides you are as mobile with bound as core theif is so there really is no reason to sacrifice actual combat potency for slightly faster decap speed (unless you have a really specific team comp, but come on for solo q bound > dash every time).

[kash.9213]

> @"foste.3098" said:

> Within 2 months pw will get nerfed to cost 6 or 7 initiative and have a damage reduction, another 2-4 months after than anet will rework pw in to a 2 skill flip over deal where the 1st skill is a 0.5 sec melee daze that, when connects, flips over in to a high damage 2-hit attack that evades during its cast for 0.5 sec.

>

> I was playing s/p dd a long time ago and i can guarantee that bound is better than dash (acro variant) firstly because it gives you more options during a fight and secondly because dash moves you much too far away and the weapon set works best when you are in someones face; dashing away makes it so you have to waste 1-2 seconds (depending on what op is doing) to awkwardly run back in to melee range (or waste another dash to go back in). Any arguments for dash being better because of swiftness are downright insane since you have plenty sources of it, and besides you are as mobile with bound as core theif is so there really is no reason to sacrifice actual combat potency for slightly faster decap speed (unless you have a really specific team comp, but come on for solo q bound > dash every time).

 

That's true in wvw for sure, but usually when I see a vid of s/p in spvp encounters happen en route and Dash does seem like a fitting range along with Inf Strike to move in, engage, and close out while packing up and moving on. I guess if you've already hit the threshold for distance and speed Bound is good to go.

[bluri.2653]

> @"foste.3098" said:

> Within 2 months pw will get nerfed to cost 6 or 7 initiative and have a damage reduction, another 2-4 months after than anet will rework pw in to a 2 skill flip over deal where the 1st skill is a 0.5 sec melee daze that, when connects, flips over in to a high damage 2-hit attack that evades during its cast for 0.5 sec.

>

> I was playing s/p dd a long time ago and i can guarantee that bound is better than dash (acro variant) firstly because it gives you more options during a fight and secondly because dash moves you much too far away and the weapon set works best when you are in someones face; dashing away makes it so you have to waste 1-2 seconds (depending on what op is doing) to awkwardly run back in to melee range (or waste another dash to go back in). Any arguments for dash being better because of swiftness are downright insane since you have plenty sources of it, and besides you are as mobile with bound as core theif is so there really is no reason to sacrifice actual combat potency for slightly faster decap speed (unless you have a really specific team comp, but come on for solo q bound > dash every time).

 

Think that all you want but dash > bound anyday just as it was the same for dp its the same now.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > > combined with stuff like Escapist's Fortitude makes any condition builds trying to retaliate with no massive instant damage output nearly impossible match up

> >

> > But... the Teef worked so hard to steal Diamond Skin away from the Elementalist. Those darned Elementalists... who would just stand there and literally laugh as your Dire build threw everything you had at them. I can still taste the salt from my own tears. It's time for payback!

> >

> > > **Diamond Skin: Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above 90%.**

>

> You got it wrong. They have to get hit for conditions to be removed and it only works with more than 75% their health.

 

That wasn't always the case. Elementalists were literally immune to conditions when above 90% health from [December 10, 2013 to January 26, 2016.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diamond_Skin/history)

 

Still jealous.

[bluri.2653]

pistol whip just won both monthly tournaments is it still a pepega spec?

[Mouse.7382]

PW teefs is all I have seen lately. I got locked down so badly a couple of times on my mesmer, I logged my teef (long time material mule) and made the build. Played it in unranked for a few days.

 

Pros:

Helped me understand what I was be locked down by, the durations, the evade frames--to better counter. HOWEVER, it is not easy to counter, having to stow weapons every few seconds (else get nailed with PI), when the smart teefs WILL NOT PEEL UNTIL DEAD.

I really enjoyed how FAST i can get around the map and decap....some matches thats all i did. This was great when I had a coordinated team that utilized my contribution. When teams just went all out, 'bloodbath middle.' My carry potential was negated!

 

Cons:

Boring, boring melee playstyle. I have more fun on a P/P DE, with next to zero survivability, but just an all around FUN build that melts if your not focused.

Carry potential is only good if you have a coordiated group. I find, as I solo queue, the great 'carry classes (FB/Heal necro/Teef),' only shines with organization. If you don't got it, might as well just play something else.

[sneakytails.5629]

I enjoy daggers more and I have more fun with Daredevil Dagger/Pistol than Sword/Pistol. But then again I am a Warrior main, and I just randomly created a build.

 

I know Sword 2/3 is stronger, but the Dagger/Pistol 3 is more fun, and having the Pistol 5, Dagger 2/1 combo is also fun. I keep loosing to Sword/Pistol Daredevils but I know I suck. I do like the poisons my build has as it helps with Warrior, Ranger and Engi regeneration.

 

My only real problem is enemy CC with dagger MH. I guess this is why Sword 2 and 3 just blows everything else out the water. Just seems boring though.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> I enjoy daggers more and I have more fun with Daredevil Dagger/Pistol than Sword/Pistol. But then again I am a Warrior main, and I just randomly created a build.

>

> I know Sword 2/3 is stronger, but the Dagger/Pistol 3 is more fun, and having the Pistol 5, Dagger 2/1 combo is also fun. I keep loosing to Sword/Pistol Daredevils but I know I suck. I do like the poisons my build has as it helps with Warrior, Ranger and Engi regeneration.

>

> My only real problem is enemy CC with dagger MH. I guess this is why Sword 2 and 3 just blows everything else out the water. Just seems boring though.

 

Tip for DP vs sword-pistol - just mash and dp#3 and #4. #3 skill blind ensures they can't lock you in place with sword-pistol3 stun. Or you can just interrupt the cast. dp3 is instant so even if they do daze you, it won't 'interrupt' and proc pulm. It's not like they have anything else that has a chance of killing you, so if you're not dazed or stunned, 99% chance Headshot wil just interrupt their PW. Just be careful about autos.

 

Also, it can be fun to blind the stun of sword-pistol 3 with black powder, stealth up, then nail them with a backstab once theri evade finishes.

 

That said, some PW thieves I see have a ridiculous amount of Quickness. Are they all running Haste now?

[Nightcore.5621]

Old build been runnin sword pistols for years

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Nightcore.5621" said:

> Old build been runnin sword pistols for years

 

True, not sure why it's suddenly claimed to be some fresh "Sind's build" :D

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > @"sneakytails.5629" said:

> > I enjoy daggers more and I have more fun with Daredevil Dagger/Pistol than Sword/Pistol. But then again I am a Warrior main, and I just randomly created a build.

> >

> > I know Sword 2/3 is stronger, but the Dagger/Pistol 3 is more fun, and having the Pistol 5, Dagger 2/1 combo is also fun. I keep loosing to Sword/Pistol Daredevils but I know I suck. I do like the poisons my build has as it helps with Warrior, Ranger and Engi regeneration.

> >

> > My only real problem is enemy CC with dagger MH. I guess this is why Sword 2 and 3 just blows everything else out the water. Just seems boring though.

>

> Tip for DP vs sword-pistol - just mash and dp#3 and #4. #3 skill blind ensures they can't lock you in place with sword-pistol3 stun. Or you can just interrupt the cast. dp3 is instant so even if they do daze you, it won't 'interrupt' and proc pulm. It's not like they have anything else that has a chance of killing you, so if you're not dazed or stunned, 99% chance Headshot wil just interrupt their PW. Just be careful about autos.

>

> Also, it can be fun to blind the stun of sword-pistol 3 with black powder, stealth up, then nail them with a backstab once theri evade finishes.

>

> That said, some PW thieves I see have a ridiculous amount of Quickness. Are they all running Haste now?

 

The more haste the build has the better it performs. I have been running this build for a long time. Prior to DE it used haste and BOA. Since DE Bqobk added. Yes lots of haste but this saves on INI in the long run as you can get more of the full PW channels in.

[kash.9213]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Nightcore.5621" said:

> > Old build been runnin sword pistols for years

>

> True, not sure why it's suddenly claimed to be some fresh "Sind's build" :D

 

I remember seeing some funky WvW builds with s/p but even if some people used the kit in spvp they weren't really posting on here. I don't remember seeing much of Sinds build with s/p kit but definitely agree some people on this forum have been playing s/p for awhile. I think we should differentiate between kit and build though more on this forum in general, I'm not even sure sometimes if I'm using the terms right in context.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Nightcore.5621" said:

> > > Old build been runnin sword pistols for years

> >

> > True, not sure why it's suddenly claimed to be some fresh "Sind's build" :D

>

> I remember seeing some funky WvW builds with s/p but even if some people used the kit in spvp they weren't really posting on here. I don't remember seeing much of Sinds build with s/p kit but definitely agree some people on this forum have been playing s/p for awhile. I think we should differentiate between kit and build though more on this forum in general, I'm not even sure sometimes if I'm using the terms right in context.

 

A lot depends on whether the person in questions streams or not. There a misconception that if a build in action not streamed then for some reason it does not exist. Most iterations of builds were tried and used by other players before someone decided to stream it in action.

[kash.9213]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Nightcore.5621" said:

> > > > Old build been runnin sword pistols for years

> > >

> > > True, not sure why it's suddenly claimed to be some fresh "Sind's build" :D

> >

> > I remember seeing some funky WvW builds with s/p but even if some people used the kit in spvp they weren't really posting on here. I don't remember seeing much of Sinds build with s/p kit but definitely agree some people on this forum have been playing s/p for awhile. I think we should differentiate between kit and build though more on this forum in general, I'm not even sure sometimes if I'm using the terms right in context.

>

> A lot depends on whether the person in questions streams or not. There a misconception that if a build in action not streamed then for some reason it does not exist. Most iterations of builds were tried and used by other players before someone decided to stream it in action.

 

Ya, I mentioned that. But I also feel like people are talking a lot about a kit, or a weapon set calling that a build and saying they already ran a build when they actually just ran another build with that kit. Most builds have been touched on before, most not optimized for best in slot though.