Master Ketsu.4569 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > > > > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > > > > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” > > > > Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. > > > > “What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down.” > > Start naming skills. lol wut? Just what rating division are you playing in? https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest Every single condi build you see there relies on passive traits and sigils for free cover condis. Ever single build also has around 2~4 applications skills that are below 1/2 cast-animation time or instant cast. If you disagree, name one build that is being played that does not match this description. Spoilers: You can't. Edit: Just checked your rating. Bro. You are in gold II. Learn the game a bit more before trying to dispute what is widely understood basic knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > > > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > > > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > > > > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > > > > > > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > > > > > > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” > > > > > > Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. > > > > > > > “What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down.” > > > > Start naming skills. > > lol wut? Just what rating division are you playing in? > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > Every single condi build you see there relies on passive traits and sigils for free cover condis. Ever single build also has around 2~4 applications skills that are below 1/2 cast-animation time or instant cast. If you disagree, name one build that is being played that does not match this description. Spoilers: You can't. > > Edit: Just checked your rating. Bro. You are in gold II. Learn the game a bit more before trying to dispute what is widely understood basic knowledge. > > your argument is invalind, do you know why mrs im high rank so dont talk to me? becouse power builds to the same shit if not worse. holo has net shot and can no animation blast your ass hard CC for 5k+ dmg. rev deals damage for switching forms alone, but even staff dash dodge will hard CC you several times while dealing 2k+ dmg while evading warrior will daze/stun you while booping you for 3k+, and even their basic m1 will slash you for 3k+ gs mes has gs3 -> 1/4s cast time. GL doding that my man ! ranger can blast your ass with invis arrow with no or just rapid fire, and before 1/2s basses 2 arrows booped your ass already for 3k+ damage. you still gotta dodge the rest ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > > > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > > > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > > > > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > > > > > > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > > > > > > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” > > > > > > Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. > > > > > > > “What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down.” > > > > Start naming skills. > > lol wut? Just what rating division are you playing in? > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > Every single condi build you see there relies on passive traits and sigils for free cover condis. Ever single build also has around 2~4 applications skills that are below 1/2 cast-animation time or instant cast. If you disagree, name one build that is being played that does not match this description. Spoilers: You can't. > > Edit: Just checked your rating. Bro. You are in gold II. Learn the game a bit more before trying to dispute what is widely understood basic knowledge. > > Lol. I’ve been doing the PvP wings after many years and not caring about where I end up. But sure, take a look at my rating currently and make a poor argument followed by an ad hominem. Don’t patronize me when your argument isn’t good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Condi has always been lazy cheese in this game. Poorly designed and highly abused through the years. Over time most classes have had their share of Condi spamming metas. The mechanic itself needs to be reworked completely. Condis should not deal any damage on their own even when traited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > > > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > > > > > > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > > > > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. > > > > > > nah, its not bad. > > > its not good. > > > its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. > > > > > > > thats called balanced, my friend. > > In competitive game mode balanced = garbage. > nobody is going to play balanced build when broken as kitten like rev or fb exist. > Nobody plays average, everyone plays whats the best. Omg, no words honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > > > > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > > > > > > > > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > > > > > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. > > > > > > > > nah, its not bad. > > > > its not good. > > > > its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. > > > > > > > > > > thats called balanced, my friend. > > > > In competitive game mode balanced = garbage. > > nobody is going to play balanced build when broken as kitten like rev or fb exist. > > Nobody plays average, everyone plays whats the best. > > Omg, no words honestly. you honestly have no clue what im talking about so im going to put it simply for you. in league 50% winrate champions ( average balanced ) have 1-2% pickrate champions with 53% winrate have 80% pick/ban rate. Unless you are on the level of the strongest, or REALLY close to the level or hardcounter to them, you are useless piece of shit and you wont be picked. Why take 50% winrate when you can take 53% winrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > > > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > > > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > > > > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > > > > > > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > > > > > > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” > > > > > > Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. > > > > > > > “What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down.” > > > > Start naming skills. > > lol wut? Just what rating division are you playing in? > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > Every single condi build you see there relies on passive traits and sigils for free cover condis. Ever single build also has around 2~4 applications skills that are below 1/2 cast-animation time or instant cast. If you disagree, name one build that is being played that does not match this description. Spoilers: You can't. > > Edit: Just checked your rating. Bro. You are in gold II. Learn the game a bit more before trying to dispute what is widely understood basic knowledge. > > Let me educate you on your statistical knowledge. Players above gold 2 don't really represent the majority of the playerbase in any way. Not trying to discredit their knowledge of the game; however, that's in no way "widely understood basic knowledge". Read it again and think if it makes any sense whatsoever. Next time try to share your opinions without discrediting others based on their rank. I'm sure these forums are not meant for plat and above only. Take your elitism elsewhere please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 @"BadMed.3846" Being in majority is pointless and irrelevant. something is too strong when its too strong, not when vast majority ( bunch of low rank players that dont even know what the fuck they are doing ) say its too strong. If that was how you say, developers would just make straw poll and all the hardstuck silver plebs would vote what to nerf next. Thats why you have posts of people asking for nerfs, all the while playing with builds that have tools to counter things they whine about, but they dont know how. How can you expect people to know how to counter other classes if they dont even know the basics of their own class. And its MAJORITY even high ranking players are often clueless on their own class and how to push it to the limits. So how can you expect pve peeps that dodge becouse it looks cool to balance the game lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Let’s actually make an argument. Since he seemed to want to make an argument and that’s more fun anyway. Here’s the thing. When you make a broad claim you are the one who has the burden to back it up. But I’ll engage a little with the paragraph I quoted. Claim: Condi is passive because it relies on passive bonuses from traits. Counter claim: Condi is not unique in this regard as power builds all rely on bonuses from traits to boost their damage. Claim 2: Condi application skills are all low cast time. Counterclaim 2: Condi and power skills both have low cast times. Counterclaim 2.1: Condi application skills actually don’t apply that many conditions per skill on average (individual skills may vary). If you are comparing 1:1, power skills are more likely to apply large amount of damage with low cast times and fast animations. Claim 3 (implied): Condi lacks counterplay. Counterclaim: If you name the specific skills you are talking about we can debate this on specific skills. If you make a broad claim all I have is anecdotal experience running a medium-low cleanse build in PvP. FB and Weaver have decent burn bursts but nothing unfair. There’s a few random other builds that apply conditions but nothing that I can’t cleanse on demand. Now, maybe my team mates have had issues with that Condi application over time but I’d put that up to blindness application/block uptime on FB and the evade uptime of Weaver against less experienced players rather than their ability to survive condi damage itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I love how every thread about condi damage descends into toxicity. Here, something for you guys to disagree with: condition damage is almost perfectly tuned at the moment. With the crazy amount of condicleansing in the game right now, some condition builds actually need some buffs.(Some, not all, and I don't necessearily mean more condiburst, buffs can get them more utility/sustain) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I'll put this here again: > @"Tayga.3192" said: > Condi skill animations are way more subtle. This is the real problem. Currently, you can dodge most of the skills on every power spec except thief and mesmer. When it comes to conditions, you can dodge a few skills but mostly they have small animations like a hand wave (marks, corrupt boon, arcane thievery, that one mallyx skill) or they are just ranged autoattacks (mesmer and necromancer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"WillPaharu.4837" said: > Not the damaging any way. the utility ones, fine. like blind and such. > > Condi builds don't have a place in competitive gaming. This is one of the most ridiculous suggestions I have heard. In fairness Im going to guess you are VERY new to the game and just feeling frustrated about losing and dont know anything the builds your opponents are using and after hearing from map/team chat you decided you have "the solution" to the woes of the masses, well you dont. This is a mindless suggestion. The game has condi in it, you cannot have balance by just excluding the parts of the game you have a hard time dealing with. That just totally kitten! Please go sit in the corner now and think about how to become a better player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradorin.6217 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Alin.2468" said: > Condition builds were introduced with the release of Heart of Thorns, to promote something new for the game. Before HoT, conditions were obtained with [combos](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo) which were coordinated in teamwork, through voice-chat, by calling fields (such as "fire field on point" or "water field on middle"). > > Because condition builds were introduced with HoT, and the master of these was considered Necromancer at the time (not commenting on current status-quo), in game appeared a new concept called "condi spamfest". This promoted meta on conditions by improving gameplay of SoloQ condi, while combos became obsolete (nowadays sometimes used in WvW squads with voice chat). As a side note, if I remember correctly, the only class which managed to remove conditions successfully was Ele. > > Keep note: this is just my opinion as millennial, living in the past, and doing PvP only for dailies nowadays (soloQ). Condi wasnt introduced with HoT, condi was around before HoT and for the most part even after HoT came out power was still best other than a few acceptions. HoT provided new stat options and elites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Power builds have always been meta From vanilla to now. Only time a Condition spec destroyed PvP was briefly after the launch of PoF scourges were absolutely busted then they got fixed then condition was completely destroyed and scourge with every other condition class went to the trash pile all the while power was still meta and still continued to be. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A TIME WHERE CONDITION WAS THE META DAMAGE TYPE IN SPVP WHO SAYS SO IS A LIAR PERIOD DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY AMMO JUST IGNORE THEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadMed.3846 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"BadMed.3846" Being in majority is pointless and irrelevant. > something is too strong when its too strong, not when vast majority ( bunch of low rank players that dont even know what the kitten they are doing ) say its too strong. > If that was how you say, developers would just make straw poll and all the hardstuck silver plebs would vote what to nerf next. > Thats why you have posts of people asking for nerfs, all the while playing with builds that have tools to counter things they whine about, but they dont know how. How can you expect people to know how to counter other classes if they dont even know the basics of their own class. > And its MAJORITY even high ranking players are often clueless on their own class and how to push it to the limits. So how can you expect pve peeps that dodge becouse it looks cool to balance the game lol. The "good" players are generally able to work around overpowered mechanics better than majority of the players from lower tiers. The developers still need to consider the opinion of majority of the playerbase to ensure game population is maintained. I'd totally agree with you if GW2 was a truly competitive game. But, we know that it's not. It is a casual friendly MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memausz.7264 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > I, too, agree, at least to the extent that condition damage should not scale so intensely. Utility conditions are tactical and fine, it's condi damage which there is literally no counter stat for which is so unhealthy for game balance cause people will just +70% condi duration spec and let the condis do all the work that they should be mashing their keyboards to do via direct damage. > > Unsurprisingly those who stand against condi dmg...play professions that by virtue of existence easily nullify 70-80% of direct dmg be it through evade/blocks or simple vast access to protection and dmg reduction traits. Basically a huge percentage of those asking for nerfs on condi dmg...play either a rev or a warrior or something that's on average weak to condi burst because their builds are made to cheese out any direct dmg opponent hmmm... > > "@WillPaharu.4837 > Ignore this person devs. Stealth and evade up times are fine. The only real problem with some of the classes listed are the plethora of clones on mirage and the stun on pistol whip. It's clear by these threads that a lot of people are angry because…"...a thief main it seems..lol..MMO forums how sad they are > > @"memausz.7264" ...a player who started GW2 with holosmith....yes I would expect a copy/paste build to run into problems with condi specs... > > @"RedShark.9548" ...a warrior main, will most likely complain either about stealth or condi dmg or both > > MMO forums.... And I play a LOT of other classes and condi dmg is still oppressive. Again, it should not scale so high because there only real counters are condi trades or condi cleanses, and there's no anti-condi dmg stat. It's just a lazy way to play and it's frustrating. And actually, I started on necro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 @"memausz.7264" I dont get this "lazy way to play argument" isnt ranger hitting you from 1800 range for 3k autos lazy? or holoforge running you down like an ape dealing 5k dps through walls lazy? or warrior that spams tactical nukes untill 1 lands and you almost instantly die to it whats more lazy, this or " condi spam " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > isnt ranger hitting you from 1800 range It's between 1900 and 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > isnt ranger hitting you from 1800 range > > It's between 1900 and 2000. yep https://imgur.com/gallery/Rrxkb2o proper bullshit right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"memausz.7264" > I dont get this "lazy way to play argument" > isnt ranger hitting you from 1800 range for 3k autos lazy? > or holoforge running you down like an ape dealing 5k dps through walls lazy? > or warrior that spams tactical nukes untill 1 lands and you almost instantly die to it > whats more lazy, this or " condi spam " you were just saying that holo isnt good anymore, and now you are basically calling it op. OK? makes sense. seriously, you shift and turn it how it fits your needs best. the fact that condi speccs only need 1 stat to be good is what makes them lazy. they can go tanky while maintainign their condi dmg, and power speccs need 3 stats to do dmg, and ontop of that, most condi spells have much less tell of when they are applying condis, when a warrior runs at you, you WILL see what hes doing, his skills are sooo telegraphed, while most condi applications have very little tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 @"RedShark.9548" quote me where I said that holo is OP, please do. Oh and you are wrong with ammulets, only condi builds that I played. Necro ( core ) condi thief and condi mirage. use 2-3 offensive stat amulets. mirage uses wanderers, only defensive stat is 560 toughness ( equivalent of demolisher from power ) necro uses carrion ( 900 defensive stats, above average but still not all that much ) and if I remember right I used to run deadshot/wanderer/wizard on condi/hybrid thief. I ask of you now. 1 Quote me where I said holo is OP. 2 Where are the 1 offensive stat amulets with ( tanky stants ) that maintain their condi damage. And the tells power/condi have is subjective. Warrior has tells but does thief have tells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"RedShark.9548" > quote me where I said that holo is OP, please do. > Oh and you are wrong with ammulets, only condi builds that I played. Necro ( core ) condi thief and condi mirage. > use 2-3 offensive stat amulets. > mirage uses wanderers, only defensive stat is 560 toughness ( equivalent of demolisher from power ) > necro uses carrion ( 900 defensive stats, above average but still not all that much ) > and if I remember right I used to run deadshot/wanderer/wizard on condi/hybrid thief. > I ask of you now. > 1 Quote me where I said holo is OP. > 2 Where are the 1 offensive stat amulets with ( tanky stants ) that maintain their condi damage. > And the tells power/condi have is subjective. Warrior has tells but does thief have tells? "isnt ranger hitting you from 1800 range for 3k autos lazy? or holoforge running you down like an ape dealing 5k dps through walls lazy?" sounds like you are calling holo op, atleast to me, i mean if an ape can even play it? well, i give you that, i dont like thief either, they dont have as obvious tells, BUT you didnt even mention thief, you were calling out warrior, who has MASSIVE tells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > > > > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > > > > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > > > > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > > > > > > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > > > > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > > > > > > > > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > > > > > > > > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” > > > > > > > > Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. > > > > > > > > > > “What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down.” > > > > > > Start naming skills. > > > > lol wut? Just what rating division are you playing in? > > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest > > > > Every single condi build you see there relies on passive traits and sigils for free cover condis. Ever single build also has around 2~4 applications skills that are below 1/2 cast-animation time or instant cast. If you disagree, name one build that is being played that does not match this description. Spoilers: You can't. > > > > Edit: Just checked your rating. Bro. You are in gold II. Learn the game a bit more before trying to dispute what is widely understood basic knowledge. > > > > > > your argument is invalind, do you know why mrs im high rank so dont talk to me? > becouse power builds to the same kitten if not worse. > holo has net shot and can no animation blast your kitten hard CC for 5k+ dmg. > rev deals damage for switching forms alone, but even staff dash dodge will hard CC you several times while dealing 2k+ dmg while evading > warrior will daze/stun you while booping you for 3k+, and even their basic m1 will slash you for 3k+ > gs mes has gs3 -> 1/4s cast time. GL doding that my man ! > ranger can blast your kitten with invis arrow with no or just rapid fire, and before 1/2s basses 2 arrows booped your kitten already for 3k+ damage. you still gotta dodge the rest ! My argument would only be invalid if what I said was implying I give a free pass to power builds for the same uninteractive nonsense. I have not done any such thing. I'm only talking about the problems with condi builds because this is a condi thread. Although most of the examples you gave were questionable ( Net shot on holo is not a problem it's their overcharged shot due to its downside being too easy to get around and being 1/4 cast at point blank range, getting constantly autod by warriors is your own poor positioning/kiting skills ) there absolutely are a lot of "monkey builds" on power now. I'm not saying low cast unavoidable cheese doesn't exist on power, just that there is less of it. You have power builds in the meta like Spellbreaker, Herald, S/P, Holo, etc. where their highest damage skills/Setups all have pretty big tells ( Bulls, Dragon elite / Sword 4, Photon forge, and while S/P 3 is annoying due to the evade it's also easy to avoid ). Yes, there are builds like mesmer stealth across the map oneshot, stealth monkey signet backstab thief, oneshot LS ele, etc and while they may not be the best builds ( They mostly fall off at higher rating. ) they are definitely not a healthy play style. Overall there is quite a lot that should be toned down. Maybe Anet will get it right next patch and finally accept the fact that this games PvP has more of a design problem than a balance problem, maybe they won't. My hopes are not too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memausz.7264 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"memausz.7264" > > I dont get this "lazy way to play argument" > > isnt ranger hitting you from 1800 range for 3k autos lazy? > > or holoforge running you down like an ape dealing 5k dps through walls lazy? > > or warrior that spams tactical nukes untill 1 lands and you almost instantly die to it > > whats more lazy, this or " condi spam " > > you were just saying that holo isnt good anymore, and now you are basically calling it op. OK? > makes sense. seriously, you shift and turn it how it fits your needs best. > > the fact that condi speccs only need 1 stat to be good is what makes them lazy. they can go tanky while maintainign their condi dmg, and power speccs need 3 stats to do dmg, and ontop of that, most condi spells have much less tell of when they are applying condis, when a warrior runs at you, you WILL see what hes doing, his skills are sooo telegraphed, while most condi applications have very little tell. Dude, it's not my fault other people can't 300 APM. Whereas condi dealing players can just blow everything up at once and just let the dmg tick for them. Yeah, their the ones who are lazy, while I'm using up my keyboard's 5 million key impact limit quite quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Congratulations! You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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