Arheundel.6451 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"memausz.7264" said: > I, too, agree, at least to the extent that condition damage should not scale so intensely. Utility conditions are tactical and fine, it's condi damage which there is literally no counter stat for which is so unhealthy for game balance cause people will just +70% condi duration spec and let the condis do all the work that they should be mashing their keyboards to do via direct damage. Unsurprisingly those who stand against condi dmg...play professions that by virtue of existence easily nullify 70-80% of direct dmg be it through evade/blocks or simple vast access to protection and dmg reduction traits. Basically a huge percentage of those asking for nerfs on condi dmg...play either a rev or a warrior or something that's on average weak to condi burst because their builds are made to cheese out any direct dmg opponent hmmm... "@WillPaharu.4837 Ignore this person devs. Stealth and evade up times are fine. The only real problem with some of the classes listed are the plethora of clones on mirage and the stun on pistol whip. It's clear by these threads that a lot of people are angry because…"...a thief main it seems..lol..MMO forums how sad they are @"memausz.7264" ...a player who started GW2 with holosmith....yes I would expect a copy/paste build to run into problems with condi specs... @"RedShark.9548" ...a warrior main, will most likely complain either about stealth or condi dmg or both MMO forums.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > I, too, agree, at least to the extent that condition damage should not scale so intensely. Utility conditions are tactical and fine, it's condi damage which there is literally no counter stat for which is so unhealthy for game balance cause people will just +70% condi duration spec and let the condis do all the work that they should be mashing their keyboards to do via direct damage. > > Unsurprisingly those who stand against condi dmg...play professions that by virtue of existence easily nullify 70-80% of direct dmg be it through evade/blocks or simple vast access to protection and dmg reduction traits. Basically a huge percentage of those asking for nerfs on condi dmg...play either a rev or a warrior or something that's on average weak to condi burst because their builds are made to cheese out any direct dmg opponent hmmm... > > "@WillPaharu.4837 > Ignore this person devs. Stealth and evade up times are fine. The only real problem with some of the classes listed are the plethora of clones on mirage and the stun on pistol whip. It's clear by these threads that a lot of people are angry because…"...a thief main it seems..lol..MMO forums how sad they are > > @"memausz.7264" ...a player who started GW2 with holosmith....yes I would expect a copy/paste build to run into problems with condi specs... > > @"RedShark.9548" ...a warrior main, will most likely complain either about stealth or condi dmg or both > > MMO forums.... And what is the problem with me complaining about stealth, or condi? I have no fun AT ALL playing against oppressive condi speccs that constantly tick with like 3k dmg with only 1 dmg stat needed, going rest of their stats tanky. And when condis were rly popular they were ticking with 5-8k, which is burst dmg in a game were ppl on average run around 20k hp. And stealth? Yea thats fun, going stealth seemingly 24/7 AND high mobility ontop of that is no fun to play against, for everyone who doesnt have access to such a broken mechanic, free fight resets, whenever its not going your way, and then when you are winning chase with that superior mobility to death. Because boohooo squishy stealth user die quick, WHEN they get hit. And btw, im also complaining about high direct dmg numbers, you think i believe its ok to hit 15k on some skills? Lol. No. Oh and btw i also complain about high sustain, because when we someday might have lowered dmg, ppl will actually be able to react to bursts and actually use their heals, and then heal back up instantly, because thats powercrept aswell, so are boons and dodges/dmg mitigation on many classes. Mmo forums, where people voice their opinions, that are not aligning with yours, so sad, amirite? Geez dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Putting so much emphasis on conditions is Anet's way of bridging the gap between casuals to seasoned vets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said: > Putting so much emphasis on conditions is Anet's way of bridging the gap between casuals to seasoned vets what emphasis ? now in the meta there are at most 3 semi viable condi builds. and there is 15+ power builds. OP just wants to kill more diversity so he doesnt have to learn how to play against condi. nothing less nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > I, too, agree, at least to the extent that condition damage should not scale so intensely. Utility conditions are tactical and fine, it's condi damage which there is literally no counter stat for which is so unhealthy for game balance cause people will just +70% condi duration spec and let the condis do all the work that they should be mashing their keyboards to do via direct damage. > > > > Unsurprisingly those who stand against condi dmg...play professions that by virtue of existence easily nullify 70-80% of direct dmg be it through evade/blocks or simple vast access to protection and dmg reduction traits. Basically a huge percentage of those asking for nerfs on condi dmg...play either a rev or a warrior or something that's on average weak to condi burst because their builds are made to cheese out any direct dmg opponent hmmm... > > > > "@WillPaharu.4837 > > Ignore this person devs. Stealth and evade up times are fine. The only real problem with some of the classes listed are the plethora of clones on mirage and the stun on pistol whip. It's clear by these threads that a lot of people are angry because…"...a thief main it seems..lol..MMO forums how sad they are > > > > @"memausz.7264" ...a player who started GW2 with holosmith....yes I would expect a copy/paste build to run into problems with condi specs... > > > > @"RedShark.9548" ...a warrior main, will most likely complain either about stealth or condi dmg or both > > > > MMO forums.... > > And what is the problem with me complaining about stealth, or condi? > > I have no fun AT ALL playing against oppressive condi speccs that constantly tick with like 3k dmg with only 1 dmg stat needed, going rest of their stats tanky. And when condis were rly popular they were ticking with 5-8k, which is burst dmg in a game were ppl on average run around 20k hp. > > And stealth? Yea thats fun, going stealth seemingly 24/7 AND high mobility ontop of that is no fun to play against, for everyone who doesnt have access to such a broken mechanic, free fight resets, whenever its not going your way, and then when you are winning chase with that superior mobility to death. Because boohooo squishy stealth user die quick, WHEN they get hit. > > And btw, im also complaining about high direct dmg numbers, you think i believe its ok to hit 15k on some skills? Lol. No. > > Oh and btw i also complain about high sustain, because when we someday might have lowered dmg, ppl will actually be able to react to bursts and actually use their heals, and then heal back up instantly, because thats powercrept aswell, so are boons and dodges/dmg mitigation on many classes. > > Mmo forums, where people voice their opinions, that are not aligning with yours, so sad, amirite? Geez dude. Killing condi would also kill necros It would hit weaver really hard and it would unecessarily hit mirage too hard and kill variety. I don't think necessarily killing condi is necessary rather can we just control condi output a bit more make it harder to put that many condis to insta kill people? Condi dmg on some builds def is too high, but i f you nerf necro core, i expect return to keep it viable. Also: I'm kinda worried since i love my ele i don't want weaver to be unviable. Tempest isn't exactly the most viable SPVP build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > I, too, agree, at least to the extent that condition damage should not scale so intensely. Utility conditions are tactical and fine, it's condi damage which there is literally no counter stat for which is so unhealthy for game balance cause people will just +70% condi duration spec and let the condis do all the work that they should be mashing their keyboards to do via direct damage. > > > > > > Unsurprisingly those who stand against condi dmg...play professions that by virtue of existence easily nullify 70-80% of direct dmg be it through evade/blocks or simple vast access to protection and dmg reduction traits. Basically a huge percentage of those asking for nerfs on condi dmg...play either a rev or a warrior or something that's on average weak to condi burst because their builds are made to cheese out any direct dmg opponent hmmm... > > > > > > "@WillPaharu.4837 > > > Ignore this person devs. Stealth and evade up times are fine. The only real problem with some of the classes listed are the plethora of clones on mirage and the stun on pistol whip. It's clear by these threads that a lot of people are angry because…"...a thief main it seems..lol..MMO forums how sad they are > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" ...a player who started GW2 with holosmith....yes I would expect a copy/paste build to run into problems with condi specs... > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" ...a warrior main, will most likely complain either about stealth or condi dmg or both > > > > > > MMO forums.... > > > > And what is the problem with me complaining about stealth, or condi? > > > > I have no fun AT ALL playing against oppressive condi speccs that constantly tick with like 3k dmg with only 1 dmg stat needed, going rest of their stats tanky. And when condis were rly popular they were ticking with 5-8k, which is burst dmg in a game were ppl on average run around 20k hp. > > > > And stealth? Yea thats fun, going stealth seemingly 24/7 AND high mobility ontop of that is no fun to play against, for everyone who doesnt have access to such a broken mechanic, free fight resets, whenever its not going your way, and then when you are winning chase with that superior mobility to death. Because boohooo squishy stealth user die quick, WHEN they get hit. > > > > And btw, im also complaining about high direct dmg numbers, you think i believe its ok to hit 15k on some skills? Lol. No. > > > > Oh and btw i also complain about high sustain, because when we someday might have lowered dmg, ppl will actually be able to react to bursts and actually use their heals, and then heal back up instantly, because thats powercrept aswell, so are boons and dodges/dmg mitigation on many classes. > > > > Mmo forums, where people voice their opinions, that are not aligning with yours, so sad, amirite? Geez dude. > > Killing condi would also kill necros It would hit weaver really hard and it would unecessarily hit mirage too hard and kill variety. > > I don't think necessarily killing condi is necessary rather can we just control condi output a bit more make it harder to put that many condis to insta kill people? Condi dmg on some builds def is too high, but i f you nerf necro core, i expect return to keep it viable. > > Also: I'm kinda worried since i love my ele i don't want weaver to be unviable. Tempest isn't exactly the most viable SPVP build. I never said i want to kill condi, where do you even get that idea from? I just replied to some kitten who thought hes the only one who is allowed to voice his opinion. Not to mention that reaper is played on power and in wvw, where scourge is still played, its on power aswell, so no, even if i wanted to get rid of condi, it wouldnt kill necro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. with pvp complaint. core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus fuck with necro. reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > with pvp complaint. > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. Ive seen ppl play power core, but this wasnt even my point, like i said, ill say it again, i never implied that i want to get rid of condis lol, calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > I, too, agree, at least to the extent that condition damage should not scale so intensely. Utility conditions are tactical and fine, it's condi damage which there is literally no counter stat for which is so unhealthy for game balance cause people will just +70% condi duration spec and let the condis do all the work that they should be mashing their keyboards to do via direct damage. > > > > Unsurprisingly those who stand against condi dmg...play professions that by virtue of existence easily nullify 70-80% of direct dmg be it through evade/blocks or simple vast access to protection and dmg reduction traits. Basically a huge percentage of those asking for nerfs on condi dmg...play either a rev or a warrior or something that's on average weak to condi burst because their builds are made to cheese out any direct dmg opponent hmmm... > > > > "@WillPaharu.4837 > > Ignore this person devs. Stealth and evade up times are fine. The only real problem with some of the classes listed are the plethora of clones on mirage and the stun on pistol whip. It's clear by these threads that a lot of people are angry because…"...a thief main it seems..lol..MMO forums how sad they are > > > > @"memausz.7264" ...a player who started GW2 with holosmith....yes I would expect a copy/paste build to run into problems with condi specs... > > > > @"RedShark.9548" ...a warrior main, will most likely complain either about stealth or condi dmg or both > > > > MMO forums.... > > And what is the problem with me complaining about stealth, or condi? > > I have no fun AT ALL playing against oppressive condi speccs that constantly tick with like 3k dmg with only 1 dmg stat needed, going rest of their stats tanky. And when condis were rly popular they were ticking with 5-8k, which is burst dmg in a game were ppl on average run around 20k hp. > > And stealth? Yea thats fun, going stealth seemingly 24/7 AND high mobility ontop of that is no fun to play against, for everyone who doesnt have access to such a broken mechanic, free fight resets, whenever its not going your way, and then when you are winning chase with that superior mobility to death. Because boohooo squishy stealth user die quick, WHEN they get hit. > > And btw, im also complaining about high direct dmg numbers, you think i believe its ok to hit 15k on some skills? Lol. No. > > Oh and btw i also complain about high sustain, because when we someday might have lowered dmg, ppl will actually be able to react to bursts and actually use their heals, and then heal back up instantly, because thats powercrept aswell, so are boons and dodges/dmg mitigation on many classes. > > Mmo forums, where people voice their opinions, that are not aligning with yours, so sad, amirite? Geez dude. Fun is subjective and everybody is entitled to have fun just as much as you...my question is can any of you propose balance changes so that whatever the class, you only lose when outsmarted and not outclassed?....I don't think any of us can..heck not even the devs can...it's mathematically impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > Lol. “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > with pvp complaint. > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Certain people ITT: Complaining about condi in general after they have been dunked on my a meta / overtuned condi spec. Condi in general is fine and, as a whole, is technically kind weak compared to power as whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > with pvp complaint. > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > with pvp complaint. > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. nah, its not bad. its not good. its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. > > nah, its not bad. > its not good. > its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. > So then you guys run pistol pistol GS or something? I'm seeing a lot of area effects and watnot and illusions in melee range while evading around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > > > > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > > > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. > > > > nah, its not bad. > > its not good. > > its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. > > > So then you guys run pistol pistol GS or something? I'm seeing a lot of area effects and watnot and illusions in melee range while evading around. > you run cmirage with scept/pistol + staff. or scept/pistol + axe/torch gs is for power mirage only srsl the only reason cmirage was tanky is becouse they dont shatter clones for damage, so you can get 3clone disort whenever you want. thats the only thing, make shatters deal condi damage. only thing that needed to be changed, move ambush dmg to shatters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. > > nah, its not bad. > its not good. > its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. > thats called balanced, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > thats the only thing, make shatters deal condi damage. only thing that needed to be changed, move ambush dmg to shatters. Yes, illusions line was nerfed a lot. Now everybody is playing chaos, a passive traitline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" its pvp forum. > > > > > > with pvp complaint. > > > > > > core necro is the strongest pvp build rn, and its core. Nerfing condi would remove the strongest necro build from play and thus kitten with necro. > > > > > > reaper would still remain but having only 1 build for class SUCKS. > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it also possibly kill mirage? i see quite a bit of mirage builds goin around condi, would kinda suck if mirage was wrecked by nerfs to condi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmirage is already wrecked, there is just nothing better to play so people still play it. > > > > same way tools holo is kinda bad rn, but people still play it. > > > > > > No, just no. Ppl would jump ship pretty much instantly if it was as bad as you make it to be. > > > Ppl play it because its still good, even after nerfs. > > > > nah, its not bad. > > its not good. > > its ok. same as holo, same as ranger. > > > > thats called balanced, my friend. In competitive game mode balanced = garbage. nobody is going to play balanced build when broken as shit like rev or fb exist. Nobody plays average, everyone plays whats the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alin.2468 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Condition builds were introduced with the release of Heart of Thorns, to promote something new for the game. Before HoT, conditions were obtained with [combos](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo) which were coordinated in teamwork, through voice-chat, by calling fields (such as "fire field on point" or "water field on middle"). Because condition builds were introduced with HoT, and the master of these was considered Necromancer at the time (not commenting on current status-quo), in game appeared a new concept called "condi spamfest". This promoted meta on conditions by improving gameplay of SoloQ condi, while combos became obsolete (nowadays sometimes used in WvW squads with voice chat). As a side note, if I remember correctly, the only class which managed to remove conditions successfully was Ele. Keep note: this is just my opinion as millennial, living in the past, and doing PvP only for dailies nowadays (soloQ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Everyone talks about "endless conditions" whenever a condition build is actually among the top tier of builds. But let's flip the script here a little. So let's say you're fighting a Holosmith. You avoid Photon Forge 3, the 5, and the 4. Are you safe? No. Because you still have to contend with unlimited Photon auto attacks and nearly unlimited Photon Forge 2s which still does 2.1k damage per second on its own, and up to 4k damage per second with might stacks and quickness from Elixir U. When you fight a Revenant, you dodge the sword 3,4,5. Are you safe? No. Because you still have to content with unlimited sword auto attacks which out put 2.25k damage per second before you talk about how much damage it does with quickness and might, and with might and quickness and impossible odds we are talking about 6,500 dps with PvP stats in a PvP setting. Compare this with Condition Mirage which outputs 1,800 on staff in absolutely optimal settings (3 clones close enough to the target for all the attacks to bounce and get 2x damage), and 2,400 when "bursting" and Fire Weaver which normally does 1,700 dps and hits 3,200 DPS when "bursting". Damage is an unlimited resource in GW2, this applies to both Power damage and Condition Damage. There's no mana system that prevents you from ever straight up 100% running out of attacks. Generally speaking, across the board condition damage is consistently under tuned. The issue is almost never the actual condition damage itself. It's the defensive measures around the damage output. Fire Weaver has, literally, potentially 37 seconds of evade/obsidian flesh up time through the first 60 seconds of combat. Firebrand, is loaded with an ungodly amount of projectile reflection, resistance, cleanse, aegis. If thief is running sword, SP or SD, they're hitting 50% evasion up time on top of their capacity to almost endlessly enter and exit combat. And if they're shadow arts dagger pistol they're hitting permanent stealth up time. Mirage is hitting 22 seconds of evade / invuln uptime per 60 seconds of combat which isn't that ridiculous but they also combine this with perhaps the best kit for trolling a player just out of melee range on any build. There's definitely some tuning up of where damage should be coming from. Fire weavers should probably not be farting out massive burn stacks in an AoE around them just for activating primordial stance. x Condition mesmer is probably at a decent spot at 1,800 dps when just out of melee range on staff but 1,200 of that dps shouldn't be coming from the clones and should be rolled all into the mesmer's winds of chaos itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > Lol. > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > The issue with removing runes/prefixes/sigils is all you are really doing is banishing the builds to WvW where they continue to be bad for the game. > > > > > > What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down. > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb should be:** > > > 1 second minimum casting skill with an outstanding long animation, requires the weapon the skill is on to be traited for max effectiveness. > > > > > > **How getting hit with a 6+ condi bomb currently is:** > > > Get hit with an instant cast / low animation ability that does 1~3 condis + 2~4 additional condis from passive trait procs that have otherwise nothing to do with the ability that was just used. > > > > > > And that's why condi builds are hated. It has nothing to do with DOT damage. It has nothing to do with balance. It has everything to do with the fact that the overwhelming majority of condi builds and the skills that carry them are ridiculously "monkey", requiring very little skill to play outside of spamming a rotation, and having little to no interaction when being played against. > > > > > > > > > Hell I remember condition skills back in GW1 HA/GvG. For a player to receive that many condis would require multiple skills with 1s+ casting time all being coordinated by multiple players focusing their target. Kind of sad how low the skill floor has fallen. > > > > > > > > > > Lol. > > > > “Condi builds don’t even trait their weapons or anything. They just do condi spikes magically with zero cast time abilities and spiking me down with no counter play.” > > > > My condi cleanse was nerfed recently and I still have no issues with condi automatically countering me. Most condi skills have obvious tells and can be avoided. Unless you have a specific complaint about a particular ability needing a tell or less condi application you are wasting everyone’s time. > > > > 90% of players run power and people still think it’s “too much” or “unfair.” > > Nice factually inaccurate strawman argument. 10/10. Would not take seriously again. > “What's really needed with condi builds is that too many condi abilities are either ridiculously easy to land / impossible to avoid, or are heavily carried by passives. A redesign-pass should be given to a lot of these skills to slow them down.” Start naming skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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