The PvP update needs to come to WvW too.

[Sansar.1302]

Have been some big nerfs to Fb and Necro in mini patch, need this to come to WvW too as it final breake fb and necro meta that have lasted for years.

[ArlAlt.1630]

Amen /15chars

[Burnfall.9573]

**PvP Only** -making exceptions to the rule.........continues

WvW is once again being excluded from any positive changes

[lodjur.1284]

Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

 

The nerf to the mantra heal happened in WvW too. Which actually shows that devs might have some awareness of where various builds are problematic.

 

Daring challenge nerf could also have been ported though I suppose, but not super important. Lich form maybe too, but I haven't seen it very much at all so idk how it performs in WvW. Neither of these would be important changes.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

PvP ≠ WvW

 

ANet was right in only applying 90% of these changes to PvP. I mean, what exactly is an immortal signet Necro going to do in WvW? Win duels? Get ping ponged in a zerg for an extra 10 seconds while forgoing almost all of its corrupts? Sure, WvW balance is questionable, but like @"lodjur.1284" said, symbolbrands and signet Necros are not exactly the most glaring issues, and they *did* actually target a very relevant skill for Firebrand in WvW.. This was more of a hotfix than anything for three specs that were clearly dominating the current meta in PvP. Give the WvW balance some more time; it has been 8 days.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> PvP ≠ WvW

>

> ANet was right in only applying 90% of these changes to PvP. I mean, what exactly is an immortal signet Necro going to do in WvW? Win duels? Get ping ponged in a zerg for an extra 10 seconds while forgoing almost all of its corrupts? Sure, WvW balance is questionable, but like @"lodjur.1284" said, symbolbrands and signet Necros are not exactly the most glaring issues, and they *did* actually target a very relevant skill for Firebrand in WvW.. This was more of a hotfix than anything for three specs that were clearly dominating the current meta in PvP. **Give the WvW balance some more time; it has been 8 days.**

 

is it really that hard to apply these changes to WvW as well?

 

History repeats itself and obviously continues to do so; this is the reason why WvW was ignored in the first place....PvP only is what destroyed it and Anet is doing it all over again

 

**Pushing players against wall to play PvP for positive changes are more reasons for even more population drop!!**

 

IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Burnfall.9573"

 

Different meta, different issues. Give it more time. Not saying there isn't overlap, just saying that the changes for WvW should be made less reactively to a predominantly PvP-specific issue.

 

Edit: somehow quoted myself in that.

 

Also, why are all of your posts so melodramatic? 8 days after what is arguably the biggest balance patch in the game's history, and somehow it is a sign that "history repeats itself" because most of these changes were PvP-specific. I am far form an ANet apologist, but my god...

 

Edit again because I can't count.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

Actually I'm seeing *alot* more core necros running around. Maybe 10x previous numbers. So roughly around 10 core necros.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > PvP ≠ WvW

> >

> > ANet was right in only applying 90% of these changes to PvP. I mean, what exactly is an immortal signet Necro going to do in WvW? Win duels? Get ping ponged in a zerg for an extra 10 seconds while forgoing almost all of its corrupts? Sure, WvW balance is questionable, but like @"lodjur.1284" said, symbolbrands and signet Necros are not exactly the most glaring issues, and they *did* actually target a very relevant skill for Firebrand in WvW.. This was more of a hotfix than anything for three specs that were clearly dominating the current meta in PvP. **Give the WvW balance some more time; it has been 8 days.**

>

> is it really that hard to apply these changes to WvW as well?

 

Nope, it most likely takes clicking a box, or adding "WvW" to a line of code. It's also quite easy to shoot yourself in the foot or punch a wall as hard as you can, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.

 

> History repeats itself and obviously continues to do so; this is the reason why WvW was ignored in the first place....PvP only is what destroyed it and Anet is doing it all over again

>

> **Pushing players against wall to play PvP for positive changes are more reasons for even more population drop!!**

>

> IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!

 

We got the changes that were relevant and good for WvW tho. Symbolbrand and tanky core necros don't by any stretch feel broken in WvW.

 

The heal mantra has always been very strong, it got nerfed in WvW. Not the particular nerf to healbrand I might have wanted, but it's something

 

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

> Actually I'm seeing *alot* more core necros running around. Maybe 10x previous numbers. So roughly around 10 core necros.

 

Yes, clearly something must be done

[ArlAlt.1630]

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

> > Actually I'm seeing *alot* more core necros running around. Maybe 10x previous numbers. So roughly around 10 core necros.

>

> Yes, clearly something must be done

 

Still 10 more than Core Engi, Core Mesmer, Core Rev, Core Guard (ok maybe 5 more than Core Guard).

 

And no F2P accounts don’t count. No1 would consciously pick any of the above while having the full game. Ok maybe Mesmer cuz they got 2 dead e-specs.

[Gwaihir.1745]

Pvp isnt wvw .edu

[fuzzyp.6295]

Roaming has been incredibly difficult since the patch with all the tanky condis floating about. I absolutely agree and hope that Anet moves these balance changes over to WvW. People keep syaing WvW isn't PvP, and thats true, but there is more to WvW than just zerging about. There are points to having small scales fights and balance needs to be addressed for those situations as well. I expect it wont come soon, but i hope in the future we will get these issues addressed. Right now It feels the only way to effectively stay alive anymore in small scale is to go condi, and I don't think that is healthy for the game mode.

 

Edit: fixed a few phrasing issues

[Fish.2769]

> @"Sansar.1302" said:

> Have been some big nerfs to Fb and Necro in mini patch, need this to come to WvW too as it final breake fb and necro meta that have lasted for years.

 

You mean the same meta that's been part of WvW since GW2 was released...?

 

Guardian and Necro - always been part of ANY WvW meta because of the fundamentals of each class.

[Infusion.7149]

Guardian symbols aren't problematic in WvW unless you're CCed to death. Wells from necros are more deadly.

--- this means writ of Persistence (very rarely run over Force of Will), Protector's Restoration (symbol on heal use) rarely see use

That said, having the symbol recharge increased on axe (Symbol of Vengeance) wouldn't affect most people in WvW, neither would the mantra change for Mantra of Truth. The axe pull could affect WvW a minor bit (Blazing Edge) ; same goes for for Daring Challenge (Tome of Courage).

With the merged change on the heal mantra (Mantra of Solace), if you don't run honor's Pure of Heart with some healing power it can be painful.

 

For necros, Signet of Undeath is generally not run as it resses 1 person; Signet of Vampirism isn't as broken when there's more than 2 sources of damage but could probably see the same nerf. Unholy Martyr change could be merged, there really isn't a reason not to. Lich Form doesn't see much use in WvW because you can easily be bursted down or reflected. Tankiness from Death's Carapace is only if you run Death Magic, so it should be fine given the higher damage in WvW.

 

Revenant's Banish enchantment could have its energy cost merged along with Call to Anguish (the AoE leaping pull); Pain Absorption as well but keep in mind Pain Absorption is much riskier in WvW. Not sure on Embrace the darkness, with the energy cost increased on mallyx skills it should be fine.

As far as revenant mace: Searing Fissure , Echoing Eruption could be shaved.

 

If anything a merge of the PvP balance changes would allow for more uniformity.

[Voltekka.2375]

Just remove thief, game's sales will skyrocket

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

Yes, all the PvP changes should carry over to WvW.

 

As large scale and 1v1 balance are both chimerical, we should settle for what is possible : small scale balance.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

No thanks. No reason to nerf something that isnt overperforming in WvW.

 

Other support classes like tempest/heal rev need buffs, not fb nerfs.

[Threather.9354]

Just replace PvP 3-node system with 1-node system and move WvW balance there. Problem solved.

[Jeddite.8620]

take a look at this build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

 

there is no way to drop under 30 caprice in a zerg fight.

 

you have 3000 armor, 19k hp + pulsing protection

in shroud you are immun to soft cc

you have permanent cleanse in shroud 2 condition, outside with spektral walk and if everything went wrong you still have your healability (every cleanse give you caprice)

 

3000 power with full stack (bloodlust/caprice) + your own access to might (sigill of absorbtion)

54% crit chance + 193 crit damage, normal, but if you enter shroud you get +600 ferocity +33% crit chance + quickness

 

i was testing it for one day (because my ele got deleted) and it feels like godmode. you are a hypertank, but deal damage like a mage.

 

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> No thanks. No reason to nerf something that isnt overperforming in WvW.

 

i dont know why people think if something is overperfarming in pvp it dosen't in wvw...

 

but necro has a big lobby in wvw, if nekro is not op in anyway or out of meta the forum would explode

 

 

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> take a look at this build:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

>

> there is no way to drop under 30 caprice in a zerg fight.

>

> you have 3000 armor, 19k hp + pulsing protection

> in shroud you are immun to soft cc

> you have permanent cleanse in shroud 2 condition, outside with spektral walk and if everything went wrong you still have your healability (every cleanse give you caprice)

>

> 3000 power with full stack (bloodlust/caprice) + your own access to might (sigill of absorbtion)

> 54% crit chance + 193 crit damage, normal, but if you enter shroud you get +600 ferocity +33% crit chance + quickness

>

> i was testing it for one day (because my ele got deleted) and it feels like godmode. you are a hypertank, but deal damage like a mage.

This is what happens when players that have no clue about actual gameplay throw in random numbers ... builds that are terrible suddenly become overpowered on paper. That build is usless in the zerg (no damage, mediocre sustain for zerg levels) and usless in smallscale (no one will stand in the wells and it is easy to burst to oblivion).

[Zero.3871]

> @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> take a look at this build:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

>

> there is no way to drop under 30 caprice in a zerg fight.

>

> you have 3000 armor, 19k hp + pulsing protection

> in shroud you are immun to soft cc

> you have permanent cleanse in shroud 2 condition, outside with spektral walk and if everything went wrong you still have your healability (every cleanse give you caprice)

>

> 3000 power with full stack (bloodlust/caprice) + your own access to might (sigill of absorbtion)

> 54% crit chance + 193 crit damage, normal, but if you enter shroud you get +600 ferocity +33% crit chance + quickness

>

> i was testing it for one day (because my ele got deleted) and it feels like godmode. you are a hypertank, but deal damage like a mage.

>

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > No thanks. No reason to nerf something that isnt overperforming in WvW.

>

> i dont know why people think if something is overperfarming in pvp it dosen't in wvw...

>

> but necro has a big lobby in wvw, if nekro is not op in anyway the forum would explode

>

>

 

PVP is balanced around 5 v 5 fights. so changes were made to that criteria. but you are talking about 50 v 50 fights. whats a complete different dimension. making 5 v 5 balance changes for 50 v 50 wouldnt have the same effect. those changes due to unforseeable results if you do them without good planning.

 

e.g. in wvw zergfights no necro is playing lich form (because of tons of reflects) or signet of undeath. so nerfes to those traits wouldnt effect zerg meta you are complaining about.

 

the moment you are complaining about a pvp change that doesnt come to wvw, while not concerning these facts just show that you are only here to cry because of your main class that is btw not that weak you are claiming. plz stop your behavior of rage complaining because of emotional reasons. you are linking a reaper build while core necro was the target of the nerfes cause core is in pvp overperforming.

 

you finally obviously missed every point of this changes, so plz inform yourself before start crying about god and the world betrayed you. thx, bro.

 

 

[Jeddite.8620]

the deathmagic nerf in the notes (carapace), it was only a exampel that things that are in pvp strong also are strong in wvw.

that the rev condi nerfs also need to hit wvw, i think we dont need to talk about.

 

you see that they try to fix things but only in pvp. thats a really bad massage for all wvw player. it look like nothing change.

 

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> PVP is balanced around 5 v 5 fights.

 

you can belive it or not. a long time ago i had a lots of 5vs5 in wvw. now the most people are now focus on 10-15 people havocing groups or play in zerg.

but that is the good thing about wvw, you can do whatever you want. in wvw you also can have 5vs5, so why it should only balanced in pvp?

 

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> This is what happens when players that have no clue about actual gameplay throw in random numbers ... builds that are terrible suddenly become overpowered on paper. That build is usless in the zerg (no damage, mediocre sustain for zerg levels) and usless in smallscale (no one will stand in the wells and it is easy to burst to oblivion).

 

for me it worked pretty good. but feel free to play whatever you want. =)

and that this build is made for zerg, i mean you should get it after reading this:

> > @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> > there is no way to drop under 30 caprice in a zerg fight.

 

dont know what you are talking about smallscale and wells. but overall you look a bit stupid.

in one thread you defending condi rev as balanced and a few days later the nerf come in pvp : D

in another thread you defend retaliation : D

 

you are really no person i like to talk with so, bye bye : DD

[mes.4607]

:) I agree

[Virdo.1540]

...just came across to leave [something](https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW) behind...

[Svarty.8019]

> @"Sansar.1302" said:

> Have been some big nerfs to Fb and Necro in mini patch, need this to come to WvW too as it final breake fb and necro meta that have lasted for years.

 

YES! BREAK THOSE CLASSES! Break them so that people can't play ANYTHING and are FORCED to quit the game entirely because the only viable things are piano classes that they have NO HOPE of mastering! Then the game will have no players! PERFECT!