The PvP update needs to come to WvW too.

[duillyn.2697]

correct

 

a lot of trackball users will have issues with necro nerfs but thats ok.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> take a look at this build:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

>

> there is no way to drop under 30 caprice in a zerg fight.

>

> you have 3000 armor, 19k hp + pulsing protection

> in shroud you are immun to soft cc

> you have permanent cleanse in shroud 2 condition, outside with spektral walk and if everything went wrong you still have your healability (every cleanse give you caprice)

>

> 3000 power with full stack (bloodlust/caprice) + your own access to might (sigill of absorbtion)

> 54% crit chance + 193 crit damage, normal, but if you enter shroud you get +600 ferocity +33% crit chance + quickness

>

> i was testing it for one day (because my ele got deleted) and it feels like godmode. you are a hypertank, but deal damage like a mage.

>

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > No thanks. No reason to nerf something that isnt overperforming in WvW.

>

> i dont know why people think if something is overperfarming in pvp it dosen't in wvw...

>

> but necro has a big lobby in wvw, if nekro is not op in anyway or out of meta the forum would explode

>

>

>

>

 

I want to put a few things in to perspective for this rising fame of Signet Necro.

 

Yes, it is nearly immortal. Yes, it can do moderate damage.

 

It is still weak to CC. It still has 0 mobility. It contributes nothing to a zerg and it can be effectively ignored in small scale. There is a 10 second window between Shroud re-entry where many builds can kill or put the Necro in critical shape.

 

If this build is a part of a zerg or small scale fight and it's massive health pool allows it to be the last one alive, what's it going to do? Run?

 

It's basically a Sword/Dagger Weaver with less damage. You can literally walk away from it. All it does is exist for a very long time and annoy people who like fights to end in 0.5 seconds because they don't like to use more than 2 brain cells.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> If this build is a part of a zerg or small scale fight and it's massive health pool allows it to be the last one alive, what's it going to do? Run?

This is some misinterpretation of many players I guess. They think being the last one alive is an indicator for skill.

 

The truth is more often than not that the last man standing in wvw is the most usless player in the zerg, because he plays some selfish bunker build. That build of jeddite is such a build: tanky, laughable damage and only ranged (no damage, only tagging targets for bags).

 

If the spellbreaker dies before you then you are too tanky and you should have invested more in offense to do what you are for in the blob - killing targets!

 

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

Nah. I want the enemy to keep using core necros for their blobs, and stuff. And that symbol firebrand build. Please use these! PLEASE.

 

D:

[RedShark.9548]

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > > > Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

> > > Actually I'm seeing *alot* more core necros running around. Maybe 10x previous numbers. So roughly around 10 core necros.

> >

> > Yes, clearly something must be done

>

> Still 10 more than Core Engi, Core Mesmer, Core Rev, Core Guard (ok maybe 5 more than Core Guard).

>

> And no F2P accounts don’t count. No1 would consciously pick any of the above while having the full game. Ok maybe Mesmer cuz they got 2 dead e-specs.

 

I have all expansions and im playing core guard over fb because it has more stab and is more fun to play.

Kitten fb, core guard is much more fun.

[Jeddite.8620]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > If this build is a part of a zerg or small scale fight and it's massive health pool allows it to be the last one alive, what's it going to do? Run?

> This is some misinterpretation of many players I guess. They think being the last one alive is an indicator for skill.

>

> The truth is more often than not that the last man standing in wvw is the most usless player in the zerg, because he plays some selfish bunker build. That build of jeddite is such a build: tanky, laughable damage and only ranged (no damage, only tagging targets for bags).

>

> If the spellbreaker dies before you then you are too tanky and you should have invested more in offense to do what you are for in the blob - killing targets!

 

 

you are complain about that this build is not max dps or its only ranged. its so funny. = DD

you really don't get it or? you can't even read. you miss the point completely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[displayname.8315]

So a couple solo roamers tried to facetank a condi bunker necro and got shamed.. Better balance the game around their pride.

 

Lololo some good trash talk in this thread though

[Waffler.1257]

Necro and rev nerfs definitely need to come to WvW also. The most significant nerf to FB was the change to their heal mantra which was made in both PvP and WvW, but for some reason condi necro/rev get a pass despite being even more cancerous in WvW due to the availability of trailblazer stats. Maybe you won't notice if all you do is run around karma farming in a 30+ blob all day, but for small scale fights necro/rev are absolutely broken.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

As a Necro main, I will be totally honest and say that on a 1 vs 1 level, Necros need to be nerfed.

My win-rate on Necro as 1 vs 1 is 80% wins, 19% draws and 1% loss.

The problem is that I'm winning with low effort just camping shroud.

The sustain and tankiness is insane.

I hardly need to dodge anything.

But I give up a lot of damage/corruption for sustain.

 

But while you are nerfing Necros, please fix the bugged healing on rangers too.

It's making them nearly immortal in small scale.

And they can do it with high damage.

Only happens in WvW.

The ranger's rugged growth trait healing is bugged in WvW.

Tooltip says heal for ~155 per second on protection but actual healing is ~420 per second on protection.

 


 

[Fish.2769]

> @"Waffler.1257" said:

> Necro and rev nerfs definitely need to come to WvW also. The most significant nerf to FB was the change to their heal mantra which was made in both PvP and WvW, but for some reason condi necro/rev get a pass despite being even more cancerous in WvW due to the availability of trailblazer stats. Maybe you won't notice if all you do is run around karma farming in a 30+ blob all day, but for small scale fights necro/rev are absolutely broken.

 

That's the issue, WvW has to be balanced around group/zerg/blob play AS WELL AS small scale/roaming/havoc group play. sPvP is an easier thing to hotfix since it's all based on fighting on a point/node where in WvW you have an area as big as some sPvP maps to manoeuvre around when fighting someone.

[Widmo.3186]

> @"lodjur.1284" said:

> Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

>

> The nerf to the mantra heal happened in WvW too. Which actually shows that devs might have some awareness of where various builds are problematic.

>

> Daring challenge nerf could also have been ported though I suppose, but not super important. Lich form maybe too, but I haven't seen it very much at all so idk how it performs in WvW. Neither of these would be important changes.

 

Idk your name, that means youre probably not one of the roamers/duelers. Atm condi rev is in very bad state (unnerfed), FB unkillable, core necro sustain is over 9000. For everyone that dares to sometimes 1v1 in WvW, smallscale fight or even go somewhere without fellow darling commander and squad of 40 followers it is obvious what should be nerfed and why.

 

If you are one of the zerglings and according to you there are almost no core necros, condi revs are not a problem (that means you haven't faced decent one) then those nerfs wouldn't hurt you in any way.

 

WvW is _massive PvP zone_ in first place, then zerglings fight zone in second.

 

Read posts, alike necro mains, FB mains and e v e n rev mains are admitting that their classes are overperfoming.

 

@"EremiteAngel.9765"

For once I agree with you bro

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > @"lodjur.1284" said:

> > Ah yes of course, WvW is currently massively dominated by symbolbrands and tanky core necros. /sarcasm

> >

> > The nerf to the mantra heal happened in WvW too. Which actually shows that devs might have some awareness of where various builds are problematic.

> >

> > Daring challenge nerf could also have been ported though I suppose, but not super important. Lich form maybe too, but I haven't seen it very much at all so idk how it performs in WvW. Neither of these would be important changes.

>

> Idk your name, that means youre probably not one of the roamers/duelers. Atm condi rev is in very bad state (unnerfed), FB unkillable, core necro sustain is over 9000. For everyone that dares to sometimes 1v1 in WvW, smallscale fight or even go somewhere without fellow darling commander and squad of 40 followers it is obvious what should be nerfed and why.

 

I don't know your name either. But let's just say I already feel I've had the distinct displeasure of knowing you for years and know more about you than I'd like.

 

I don't really care if you've heard of me tbh, especially given that this account is my forum account and I never post on the forums on my real account. Otherwise I'd give it 50/50, either way it's not really relevant.

 

I usually play in a group size of 2-4 doing outnumbered fights, on extremely rare occasions we've been 5 and maybe once a week I play some solo but it's pretty boring. Idk if you count that as roaming.

 

> If you are one of the zerglings and according to you there are almost no core necros, condi revs are not a problem (that means you haven't faced decent one) then those nerfs wouldn't hurt you in any way.

 

We fought a bunch today as a duo, we focused down the revs with CC and ignored the necros til their group was dead. The builds felt like they were quite strong to fight but far from the most annoying things we encountered.

 

> WvW is _massive PvP zone_ in first place, then zerglings fight zone in second.

 

I don't disagree with this. Nor have I said anything to the contrary.

 

> Read posts, alike necro mains, FB mains and e v e n rev mains are admitting that their classes are overperfoming.

 

I actually mention that true nature Demon is broken. Rest of condi rev is strong but not broken as it has plenty of counterplay, maybe banish enchantment could use some tuning down, but it doesn't feel like a massive problem to fight.

 

Fb healer still seems broken but not exactly what these changes address.

 

Core necro might be broken 1v1 but it's really not fantastic outside of it and WvW imo shouldn't focus it's balance on 1v1s. It should focus it's balance on small group fights (like 3-8 group size maybe, as that's where it matters the most).

 

 

[Junkpile.7439]

Necro is actually kind of horrible in wvw. You are stunlocked until you die and you can't flee anyways because no movement skills. Your most important skills get interrupted almost everytime too. In wvw movement skills, stability and stealth are most important.

[Redpawa.4108]

> @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> take a look at this build:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

 

As a death magic tank reaper I am offended by your build, please use the correct OP build in the future, cheers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lJw4YesGWJeeXptaA-zVJYiR9/YEJVrUVOnF930A-w

 

- Appropriate weaponry for cleaving

- Much higher effective HP; 57.7Mil vs 74.6Mil (an entire glass teef of EHP)

- 100% Crit @ 240%

- More damage modifiers ie. Moar biggah numbers

- I run out of conditions already, Antitoxin **or** Relentless Pursuit make no difference

 

_None of this_ matters anyway, because these are necromancer builds. We are just highly specialized beach balls in the path of the might zerg

[Nimon.7840]

I think actually necro is fine.

But guard isn't. Guard needs some serious nerfs to it's burn builds.

 

Best support in wvw: firebrand

Best damage dealer in wvw: all sorts of burn guard (core, dragongunter and firebrand)

 

This needs to stop

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Redpawa.4108" said:

> > @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> > take a look at this build:

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

>

> As a death magic tank reaper I am offended by your build, please use the correct OP build in the future, cheers.

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lJw4YesGWJeeXptaA-zVJYiR9/YEJVrUVOnF930A-w

>

> - Appropriate weaponry for cleaving

> - Much higher effective HP; 57.7Mil vs 74.6Mil (an entire glass teef of EHP)

> - 100% Crit @ 240%

> - More damage modifiers ie. Moar biggah numbers

> - I run out of conditions already, Antitoxin **or** Relentless Pursuit make no difference

>

> _None of this_ matters anyway, because these are necromancer builds. We are just highly specialized beach balls in the path of the might zerg

 

Curious: why use focus? Not being critical at all, just trying to understand

[BarnacleBoy.6918]

So many obvious zerg monkeys in this thread. News flash: not all fights in wvw take place in zergs, and the game should NOT be balanced around surviving zerg v zerg encounters. If you’re dying in blob fights, the other zerg is better, or your positioning is bad. Nerfing and buffing classes isn’t going to help you there.

 

How can these minor changes even bother zerg monekys? If you’re in a competent blob you should have full might, swiftness, prot ect. How can you realistically think the nerfs will have any massive zerg v zerg gameplay effect? They wont, but they will create more options for small scale.(second news flash: outside of primetime and bandwagon servers, Its ONLY small scale.)

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Redpawa.4108" said:

> > > @"Jeddite.8620" said:

> > > take a look at this build:

> > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lVwOYIMPWJeeXutbA-zRQYRUjtwOkmECZKD6WBI55QfGA-e

> >

> > As a death magic tank reaper I am offended by your build, please use the correct OP build in the future, cheers.

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lJw4YesGWJeeXptaA-zVJYiR9/YEJVrUVOnF930A-w

> >

> > - Appropriate weaponry for cleaving

> > - Much higher effective HP; 57.7Mil vs 74.6Mil (an entire glass teef of EHP)

> > - 100% Crit @ 240%

> > - More damage modifiers ie. Moar biggah numbers

> > - I run out of conditions already, Antitoxin **or** Relentless Pursuit make no difference

> >

> > _None of this_ matters anyway, because these are necromancer builds. We are just highly specialized beach balls in the path of the might zerg

>

> Curious: why use focus? Not being critical at all, just trying to understand

...to gain 8 carapace with every focus 4 usage.

 

But anyway a death magic reaper is subpar in general. If at all it's just okay (but not more) in combination with bitter chill (gain 3 vuln on every inflicted chill). Surprisingly lots of reapers run death magic in wvw - and they are all freekills.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> As a Necro main, I will be totally honest and say that on a 1 vs 1 level, Necros need to be nerfed.

> My win-rate on Necro as 1 vs 1 is 80% wins, 19% draws and 1% loss.

> The problem is that I'm winning with low effort just camping shroud.

> The sustain and tankiness is insane.

> I hardly need to dodge anything.

> But I give up a lot of damage/corruption for sustain.

>

> But while you are nerfing Necros, please fix the bugged healing on rangers too.

> It's making them nearly immortal in small scale.

> And they can do it with high damage.

> Only happens in WvW.

> The ranger's rugged growth trait healing is bugged in WvW.

> Tooltip says heal for ~155 per second on protection but actual healing is ~420 per second on protection.

>

> 

>

 

First, let's get this out of the way bc you seem to misunderstand. WvW is NOT 1v1 duel zone. Second, and caps so you don't miss it... **RUGGED GROWTH IS AFFECTED/MODIFIED BY HEALING POWER**. 155 IS THE NEW "BASE", it's not the cap.

 

TY

 

 

And to be even more helpful...

 

https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rugged_Growth

 

"Reduced base heal from 259 to 155."

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Power

 

"Healing Power is a secondary attribute that improves all healing performed by the character, including healing from skills, traits, the regeneration boon, and certain other effects"

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > As a Necro main, I will be totally honest and say that on a 1 vs 1 level, Necros need to be nerfed.

> > My win-rate on Necro as 1 vs 1 is 80% wins, 19% draws and 1% loss.

> > The problem is that I'm winning with low effort just camping shroud.

> > The sustain and tankiness is insane.

> > I hardly need to dodge anything.

> > But I give up a lot of damage/corruption for sustain.

> >

> > But while you are nerfing Necros, please fix the bugged healing on rangers too.

> > It's making them nearly immortal in small scale.

> > And they can do it with high damage.

> > Only happens in WvW.

> > The ranger's rugged growth trait healing is bugged in WvW.

> > Tooltip says heal for ~155 per second on protection but actual healing is ~420 per second on protection.

> >

> > 

> >

>

> First, let's get this out of the way bc you seem to misunderstand. WvW is NOT 1v1 duel zone. Second, and caps so you don't miss it... **RUGGED GROWTH IS AFFECTED/MODIFIED BY HEALING POWER**. 155 IS THE NEW "BASE", it's not the cap.

>

> TY

>

>

> And to be even more helpful...

>

> https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rugged_Growth

>

> "Reduced base heal from 259 to 155."

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Power

>

> "Healing Power is a secondary attribute that improves all healing performed by the character, including healing from skills, traits, the regeneration boon, and certain other effects"

>

 

He showed in his screenshot what the skill should be healing at with his current healing power. In case *you* didn't know, tooltips scale with healing power, so that is what he should be healing himself for. Also, take the time to look at the very link you provided. **IT SHOWS THE HEALING MODIFIER.** I put in caps for you so you don't miss it. It's the (0.122).

 

Let's take a look at this screenshot that I just took. I am sitting at 1508 healing power.

 


 

So at 1508 healing power, it would be an additional 183.976 healing value in addition to the baseline, making it 338.976. Tooltip shows 340 for me, so there is probably some sort of slight difference in what the Wiki provides. Yet I am healing for 969/tick. *So yes, it is bugged.*

 

You might want to do a bit more research before you try to demean somebody.

 

TY

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > As a Necro main, I will be totally honest and say that on a 1 vs 1 level, Necros need to be nerfed.

> > > My win-rate on Necro as 1 vs 1 is 80% wins, 19% draws and 1% loss.

> > > The problem is that I'm winning with low effort just camping shroud.

> > > The sustain and tankiness is insane.

> > > I hardly need to dodge anything.

> > > But I give up a lot of damage/corruption for sustain.

> > >

> > > But while you are nerfing Necros, please fix the bugged healing on rangers too.

> > > It's making them nearly immortal in small scale.

> > > And they can do it with high damage.

> > > Only happens in WvW.

> > > The ranger's rugged growth trait healing is bugged in WvW.

> > > Tooltip says heal for ~155 per second on protection but actual healing is ~420 per second on protection.

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> >

> > First, let's get this out of the way bc you seem to misunderstand. WvW is NOT 1v1 duel zone. Second, and caps so you don't miss it... **RUGGED GROWTH IS AFFECTED/MODIFIED BY HEALING POWER**. 155 IS THE NEW "BASE", it's not the cap.

> >

> > TY

> >

> >

> > And to be even more helpful...

> >

> > https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rugged_Growth

> >

> > "Reduced base heal from 259 to 155."

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Power

> >

> > "Healing Power is a secondary attribute that improves all healing performed by the character, including healing from skills, traits, the regeneration boon, and certain other effects"

> >

>

> He showed in his screenshot what the skill should be healing at with his current healing power. In case *you* didn't know, tooltips scale with healing power, so that is what he should be healing himself for. Also, take the time to look at the very link you provided. **IT SHOWS THE HEALING MODIFIER.** I put in caps for you so you don't miss it. It's the (0.122).

>

> Let's take a look at this screenshot that I just took. I am sitting at 1508 healing power.

>

> 

>

> So at 1508 healing power, it would be an additional 183.976 healing value in addition to the baseline, making it 338.976. Tooltip shows 340 for me, so there is probably some sort of slight difference in what the Wiki provides. Yet I am healing for 969/tick. *So yes, it is bugged.*

>

> You might want to do a bit more research before you try to demean somebody.

>

> TY

 

The tooltip is bugged. I was stating facts. And those facts were that wvw isn't a 1v1 zone for "balance considerations" and that HP modifies Rugged Growth.

[Redpawa.4108]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Curious: why use focus? Not being critical at all, just trying to understand

 

You can take warhorn if you want. Overall I take focus because I value the vuln/LF gain & boon strip over the interrupt & locust swarm

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Redpawa.4108" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > Curious: why use focus? Not being critical at all, just trying to understand

>

> You can take warhorn if you want. Overall I take focus because I value the vuln/LF gain & boon strip over the interrupt & locust swarm

 

Makes sense. Thanks

[Yasai.3549]

Honestly, the balance nerfs should have never affected WvW.

WvW is an entirely different ballgame compared to sPvP.

 

The build flexibility and access to stats not featured in sPvP combined with blanket sustained nerf, in addition to how Condition damage was basically untouched in terms of damage scaling and application gave rise to an unhealthy breed of bunker condi spammers in WvW.

 

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

Ehh, pretty sure I saw myself regening for 400+ on Rugged Growth with it even though I have 0 healing power. I suppose I will go find something to test.