praqtos.9035

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

> > Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

>

> I'm not trying to sell anything as OP, don't try to put words in my mouth. Chrono and Mirage are both stronger than core though. If it can be done on core it can be done on those two as well. "Meme build" is just a salty way of saying strong build. It's far from a one trick pony if that's what you're suggesting.

Its soooooo strong that still not on metabattle even. Except for attempts to burst from stealth this build cant do anything. What a strong build with high utility and support :joy:

Thats you who should have presented a build that have everything you mention, not me.

> > Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

>

> What, now you want me to provide a commentary and break down video or something? I have a feeling you just want to be right and don't really care about discussing the topic at hand.

So to "prove" your build is really strong as you claim is enough list every single skill and a trait and add some description on it ?

If its really that strong, why its not a thing in ranked, why its not a thing in AT's ?

> > >Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

> >

>

> I like how you just exclude the numerous paragraphs of information I provided and just laser focused on this one sentence like it was the whole post. Taking advantage of your opponents stupidity is a valid and useful strategy.

So, this build supposed to work only on these who cant find the real one aka not experienced players ?

A better player would beat a worse player, even if a better player would have worse build ! You are really surprised me...

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > They are excellent at sustained combat (though I think you need to tell us what that means). It's almost stupid how easy it is to play a Mirage in any situation. With the right build, you literally have to work to get killed.

> > Enlighten us about such absurdly good build where you have to work to get killed, will you ?

>

> Step 1. Search for open world domination in Mesmer forum

> Step 2. make build

> Step 3 ... enjoy soloing champion bounties

The entire thread is about... PvP or may be at least WvW? Dont understand at all what made you think its about pve.

I'm bothered by PvP, not WvW but they dont have any splits between game modes.

Nice edit bruh but this:

> because it's their game to design and build around their ideas, not the ideas of players

They took whining side as their way of balance. Just as F3->became stun was @"Lincolnbeard.1735" idea.

All nerfs on mesmer were brought by players complaining all around, calling themselves knowledgable community, rofl. "Nerf this thing and mirage is perfect!" and this repeated itself all the time they got nerfed thing they wanted, torch, jaunt, signet of midnight, illusionary ambush, confusion, portal, axe ambush, mirage evade. Dont believe me? Look for the threads on your own if you want

Not going to wvw since memeclaw (and completely dont care about wvw, balance there is split for many classes) but claim this core mesmer build is a chrono with:

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support.

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

Then trying to sell core meme build as outstandingly OP build...

Outside just telling exact what mesmer skill has ... he suggest to rely on people stupidity and basically hope you are fighting infinitely worse people, great job.

>Use your clones! You can use them to intercept attacks or confuse your opponent. Lots of people (not everyone) still fall prey to wasting big skills on a clone.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> They are excellent at sustained combat (though I think you need to tell us what that means). It's almost stupid how easy it is to play a Mirage in any situation. With the right build, you literally have to work to get killed.

Enlighten us about such absurdly good build where you have to work to get killed, will you ?

> Regardless, it doesn't change what I said. Sure devs make some mistakes, but how they balance the game isn't one of them. Just because you don't like how they do it doesn't mean it's a mistake. Again, don't impose your own ideas of how the game should work; only you will always be wrong if you do that.

All you said is : I blindly believe anet know better than anyone what they do !

Mirage had too long evade...? How do we solve the problem...? Shall we give 0.75s duraiton which we will give them eventually...?

- No, lets nerf core weapon that was left alone since 2013, probably this was the reason !

- Not enough, lets gut on crit vigor trait which many classes share in cooldown in duration and mirage vigor...

- Bob, I think it doesnt work...

- Okay lets make MC 0.75s and leave all the nerfs.

CP alone caused clutter and double benefits from on phantasm summon traits,but because they couldnt come up with a new trait they decided to nerf core phantasms/utilities and only then CP.

In other words instead go for overperforming elite they would rather nerf core first and as the last measure - elite spec. (50% nerf values... Love them)

> @"youle.5824" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > Holo's think Revs are op, Soulbeast think Mirages are op, everyone think SBreakers are op... Around and around we go in the game of anet balance--BREAK THE WHEEEEELLLL!

> > Fixed your post slightly

> > I dont know which class can counter spellbreaker in a 1x1 anymore.

> > For example a loooong time ago people made recaps about class representations in monthly AT's. Would show us again which classes/builds are dominant at the moment.

>

> There is one chrono build that perfectly counter spellbreaker, even carried a certain someone.. cough. Polo. cough to legend

You know the build?

At this point, if I would look at top rated people at LB what would I see? By their placements :

Scourge, Holo/scourge, Rev, War, Scourge/holo, FB, Holo, Rev, Rev, Druid. top10

War, "incissor", Thief, coreguardlul, War, CertainSomeoneBelowLegend, idkwhosthat, Holo, Scourge?, Guardian/FB. top20.

So lets balance based on top20 ?

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> Holo's think Revs are op, Soulbeast think Mirages are op, everyone think SBreakers are op...

I dont know which class can counter spellbreaker in a 1x1 anymore.

For example a loooong time ago people made recaps about class representations in monthly AT's. Would show us again which classes/builds are dominant at the moment.

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > Mirage/mesmer/chrono/ is clearly still busted. Clones still does a bit of damage. Needs to be nerfed to 0

> > Everything else is good & balance.

> >

>

> S T a H p ?

> If it's pink its OP is the mindset of people in all seriousness?

Pink color is OP.

As you see according to NA ppl,its gives them no cooldowns and makes impossible to kill :joy:

@"Hylo.1968"

How jaunt can be compared to any of these elites on its cd...? If anything its just an utility, not elite :joy:

Compared to rampage clealry worse elites need buffs/cooldown reductions, not saying about these which are alrdy strong

> @"Marxx.5021" said:

> Maybe those bots are operated by ArenaNet to speed up queue times. ;)

For 1000 rated people?

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> I hope they will address this ASAP, I've been seeing bots in ranked (they just run straight into a wall). If this continues, the already low player base of ranked will be even lower.

I know few low rated people and I didnt believe when she was saying this bots all around... But I'v got absolutely shocked when I seen over over 20 people being just there,spamming games...

I think thats pretty terrible that ArenaNet unable to find bots under their own nose.

On EU region at at PvP Lobby Waypoint you can find silver-bronze-gold bots that stack on the WP, spamming attunments if its an ele,using facets if its a rev, others just seems to standing still when idle.

You add them and you see 600-1200 games. You go sleep,you wake up and what you see? same bots spamming games still there Q'ing . Spent a lot of time observing this BS and I'm shocked that Anet still struggle to find "who is the bot?" who doesnt sleep at day or night?

They lose their own money since gold they farm will be sold for real money. How much they dont care about the game is...surprising....

> @"coro.3176" said:

> I think, really, the best thing you could do is find when/if the balance devs play, and try and get in PvP or WvW against them and just run around focusing them with a glass soulbeast.

>

> After they've taken 20k unblockable damage from 1800 range away before latency + human reaction time gives them a chance to react, they might start to get it.

I have seen few on FFA but they were melted by 10 people who were not satisfied with PvP state...

> @"DemGod.7452" said:

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/support/

I know its raid stuff but kinda the same you will use in fractals

> @"flog.3485" said:

> Yes we all know this. And obviously, the good solution here is not to powercreep mesmer to the level of holosmith but rather to tone down the high uptime on dodges and heal paired with good damages.

Apparently this special snowflake doesnt. What you talking about, really? After all nerf its hard to find any mesmer in ranked/ good AT team.

I dont understand how this would suddenly "break" mesmer if they would have slightly better healing skill.

Tbh thats pretty much retarded to see this community devolved to level "you dont need healing skill,just dodge".

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

>I'm just saying you shouldn't be relying on your heal to keep you alive

What a pile of BS did I just read...?

> That's the tools they have available to them

Classic argument "but but ... you have it ! Doesnt matter that you cant pack everything in one build, this will make my argument looks better!"

> @"flog.3485" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > > > > > Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

> > > > > > > > A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

> > > > > > What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

> > > > >

> > > > > They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

> > > > Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

> > >

> > > that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.

> > > Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

> >

> > Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'

> > Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.

> > Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?

> > Would like like to explain yourself ?

>

> Sorry for the confusion. I never wanted to say that mesmer heals were doing damages, I was only trying to say that good damages paired with high heals is unbalanced, especially when you get so many ways to mitigate/evade damages.

Holosmith out-evading poor mesmers with ease, take adrenal implant which is pretty much taken by everyone, what this 6 seconds of quickness when you evade spam like you are daredevil and cooling forge to never be in danger for overheat ? 3 seconds block that can do 10k damage to you ? Invul? Their healing skill can be safely blasted to get 10-12k heals on 20s cd. Stealth on toolbelt for 6s.

Have you ever seen holos or only mesmers?

> @"flog.3485" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"flog.3485" said:

> > > You do realize you also invulnerability frames? On demand f4 distortion ? Blocks ? Teleports? And stealth? Actually like a thief to some extent, except you have a higher health pool.

> > >

> > > You obviously can’t rely exclusively on heals to sustain yourself.

> > That doesnt make bad heals any better, the only good heal I would call is mirage heal

>

> And yet, you don't need to heal that much if you have so many ways to evade/mitigate damages.

As good example of GREAT damage and GREAT heal in same time you dont need to walk too far, holosmith - healing turret,AED .

As I said , mesmer evades got gudded through nerfing core weapons that had block/evasion, vigor access lowered to necromancer/guardian level. Many classes has more evades than mesmer as they have not just vigor but special traits that boost it beyond normal vigor endurance gain.

More questions ?

> @"flog.3485" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > > > Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

> > > > > > A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

> > > > >

> > > > > You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

> > > > What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

> > >

> > > They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

> > Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

>

> that is because warrior rampage is just overtuned. It has nothing to do with how weak mesmer heal is.

> Edit: And frankly, if mesmer heals were so good to the point where you got high heals with high damages, it would become unbalanced and OP as hell.

Never used rampage in any of the duels. It was suddenly about "great facetanksmer chrono'

Mesmer healing skill is high tier garbage.

Healing skill doesnt do damage unless its revenant shiro heal. Which healing skill does damage aside this?

Would you like to explain yourself ?

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

> > > > A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

> > >

> > > You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

> > What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

>

> They can do decent enough damage. They also provide excellent utility and group support. The point I'm getting at is you don't have to heal if you don't take the damage in the first place.

Yet, you have to present such build as I dont know any chrono build that can facetank as good and do damage in same time. Last time I dueled top10 mesmer friend with a warrior, I trashed his chrono bunker/power chrono/mirage power/mirage condi with 1 hand

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

> > A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

>

> You also have continuum split, echo of memory, blurred frenzy, invisibility, and blinks. It may not be able to face tank like a scrapper or warrior but they are still pretty good at mitigating damage. A well played chrono can be hard as hell to kill.

What the point of having such chrono which is the only thing he can do is try to not die ?

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> Core mesmer is bad, Chronomancer can be extremely tanky and Mirage can be extremely evasive.

A lot of other classes outevade mesmer without a sweat. Chronomancer is "tanky" only because of signet-distortion trait, if you are looking for tanky build you should look after scrapper

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > > My idea about this for Mirage.

> > >

> > > 2) Remove F2 to F4 shatters. F1 Shatter gets 10 second cooldown and changes to the following functionality/tooltip;

> > > > Image Conversion: 10 second recharge;

> > > > Convert your clones where they stand, changing them into Mirage Mirrors. Clones transformed this way do not do shatter damage or move to the target before converting.

> > > In short, get more Dune Cloak and Ambush uptime in PvE, but in WvW / PvP, your opponents get to make a choice; prevent your extra dodges and ambush attacks OR take damage to deny you them. Or, try to force you to move away from the mirrors to chase them.

> > >

> >

> > So, instead of targeted confusion, instant daze and invulnerability; you get a "oh, wait a bit, let me get my mirrors first ^_^"?

>

> Yeah, it's called trade offs, that we should have for these things. Because if you can have up to 5 or 6 mirrors on the field at a time, that's a LOT of Dune Cloak.

Trade off = you give something, you take something . Mirage gets downgraded evade(the only thing its better at is being usable in CC,which is they forgot to delete to stop a lot of QQ prematurely) with weak ambush skills that unable to be covered and put you into risk of being cucked closer to the end of the cast and lower damage than warrior unblockable evade ... Are you sure thats great idea to force players to pick up damn mirrors?

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > Does it mean class itself was unviable and had no options? Ele was like that, these 2 are not

>

> That's not what I said. Spellbreaker and Holo both need tuning, but the other specs underneath those classes were significantly underpowered. All I'm saying is that those classes have had enough hits over time to be disqualified as 'favored'.

"Their specs were made worse to sell the coming expansion but still always had an overtuned spec,thus, disqualify them from being favored".

> > Even at forum all "reee mesmer" threads doesnt exist anymore-

> Because they recently got balanced. That doesn't mean they became unviable.

Not sure if joking

> >((((If you want to talk about it either privately or drop it, as thread is not about it))))

> It was a joke

Thats what I think about your posts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > As if they ever been in _UNVIABLE PIT_

>

> Yeah. Berserker and Scrapper were both unviable for significant periods of time.

Does it mean class itself was unviable and had no options? Ele was like that, these 2 are not

> > Highly doubt you can call something "favorite child" after seeing over 70% nerfs all around unless you are memeing

>

> Sure can, every denomination of Mes specialization is still viable even -after- the nerfs. It surely wasn't a 70% nerf all around, but if you can hit a class that hard over time and it can still do its matchups properly, it was heavily overtuned. It's only recently that Arenanet seems to be considering "maybe don't bust mesmer or its specs" as a balance recourse.

What matchups ? Doesnt matter what spec you do play on mesmer you are literally worse than any class at any job you spec for. Even at forum all "reee mesmer" threads doesnt exist anymore. Just as thier presence at ranked/AT's

Indeed 75% cd increase was on ambush for mirage, and like over 200% icd increase on the mirror, and 67% on axe ambush. Blind trait was just deleted(only god know why)

Otherwise its solid 50% at A LOT of stuff, including core weapons ((((If you want to talk about it either privately or drop it, as thread is not about it))))

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > most favorite Anet child

>

> Hey.

>

> Hey.

>

> How about let's not use "anet's favorite child" for everything that happens to be strong at the moment. Every class in this game, with the exception of mesmer, has spent significant time in E tier, with their builds fully unviable for pvp play of any kind. Further, the two class specs you mentioned _just climbed out of the unviable pit._

As if they ever been in _UNVIABLE PIT_

> That's mesmer's title, thank ye. We can punt that title around when/if they sink below B tier competitively.

Highly doubt you can call something "favorite child" after seeing over 70% nerfs all around unless you are memeing