praqtos.9035

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > >The laser functions as a projectile, although with it being unblockable and all it doesn't really matter. But as with all projectiles, it has a travel time. The further away from the engi you are when it fires, the longer it takes to hit you. In this timeframe, you can move out of it's rectangular AoE given you are far enough away before it even hits.

> > > > If that would be a thing just running away would be enough to to avoid it or give me exact time stamp on the video ... Would be appreciated, yes, Id rather to not risk getting screwed by that and evade if I actually can see the engineer.

> > > > More over as I said, they just use "mass invis elixir" for resustain and throw off elite at you so you cant even see that

> > >

> > > 4:18 in the first video (there are more)

> > > 2:17 on the second video (more in depth, you can see the travel time)

> > >

> > > Most of the time if you use about face as you see the holo charging his elite you can get about half the distance of the skill before it casts, which is oh so satisfying when you're juuust out of range. Keeping your distance to begin with helps alot, so swap to your ranged set when they enter forge.

> > >

> > > If they run the metabuild, they only have that 1 option for instant stealth meaning you can know for sure something is coming. The moment you see a holo stealth, walk or dodge to cover as fast as possible. Or about face then leap straight away from it. Do not worry about the node, he won't cap it at all until he hits something or it runs out. But if you can see it being cast, and dodge/evade/invuln it then it's just as good.

> > >

> > > If you have access to stealth or detargets by other means using them right before the channel ends while moving to either side means it will miss entirely aswell.

> >

> > Boyce took damage from the laser, have you seen width of the laser ? How the heck you want to SIDE STEP THAT?

> > This elixir is 1 of my biggest issues(right after spammable forge skills with 20-25 might stacks),its SIX seconds on 32s cooldown, by that time he will resustain all he wants and have plently of time to start and do a free opening on you.

>

> He took damage from the field, not the projectile which would chunk alot more health even in rampage if the holo had any might.

What field you are talking about ? Holo had no might if you actually watching the video. Warrior is demolisher amulet so its like 2700 armor and 25% reduction from the rampage. Seeing 2.2k from 0 might ,he used holo 3 for might later, I just tested in game,found random war,asked to use rampage and used laser, did 1780 damage (Arises question what he was thinking about when using it on the rampage xD) . Field damage is base is 227,how the heck its can crit rampage for 2.2k....without actully any field after its use? I probably completely dont understand you unless you record how YOU sidestep it... if you think its possible lol

> The elixir is good yeah, but he can't use it to resustain and attack at the same time. If you've been fighting him for 32 seconds you are either a duelist yourself and this is a typical sidenode fight, or you should have rotated off 22 seconds ago when he survived the burst. If it's a duel where you have no choice, then I would chunk cc where I think he is and dodge during the latter half of the duration just to be safe.

So why 6s on 32s cd is fine? Mass invisiblity as toolbelt skill ? If you dont kill holosmith in 1 go, he will back good as new shortly after blasting/leaping his turret. Dont think throwing CC right and left is good a idea,especially when lots of them need a target. Either make it 3s aoe or self-drink elixir for 3s so they wont complaint "its getting destroyed by projectile denial"

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > >The laser functions as a projectile, although with it being unblockable and all it doesn't really matter. But as with all projectiles, it has a travel time. The further away from the engi you are when it fires, the longer it takes to hit you. In this timeframe, you can move out of it's rectangular AoE given you are far enough away before it even hits.

> > If that would be a thing just running away would be enough to to avoid it or give me exact time stamp on the video ... Would be appreciated, yes, Id rather to not risk getting screwed by that and evade if I actually can see the engineer.

> > More over as I said, they just use "mass invis elixir" for resustain and throw off elite at you so you cant even see that

>

> 4:18 in the first video (there are more)

> 2:17 on the second video (more in depth, you can see the travel time)

>

> Most of the time if you use about face as you see the holo charging his elite you can get about half the distance of the skill before it casts, which is oh so satisfying when you're juuust out of range. Keeping your distance to begin with helps alot, so swap to your ranged set when they enter forge.

>

> If they run the metabuild, they only have that 1 option for instant stealth meaning you can know for sure something is coming. The moment you see a holo stealth, walk or dodge to cover as fast as possible. Or about face then leap straight away from it. Do not worry about the node, he won't cap it at all until he hits something or it runs out. But if you can see it being cast, and dodge/evade/invuln it then it's just as good.

>

> If you have access to stealth or detargets by other means using them right before the channel ends while moving to either side means it will miss entirely aswell.

Boyce took damage from the laser, have you seen width of the laser ? How the heck you want to SIDE STEP THAT?

This elixir is 1 of my biggest issues(right after spammable forge skills with 20-25 might stacks),its SIX seconds on 32s cooldown, by that time he will resustain all he wants and have plently of time to start and do a free opening on you.

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

>

> You don't seem to understand what I mean by tradeoffs.

>

> What I mean is that when you pick an elite spec, regardless of what traits you choose, you get certain perks. These perks are sometimes accompanied by losses, or tradeoffs. In the case of scrapper, it doesn't lose anything by picking the elite spec, but the "perk" it gets is function gyro. That's the only change to the functioning of the class. That's a minor perk at best. How well it performs in PvP is largely a result of the reworked gyros in concert with tanky hammer skills, which aren't a requirement of the elite spec.

>

> Mirage gets the ability to dodge and attack at the same time, plus ambush skills for all weapons. It loses nothing in exchange. Chrono gets continuum split, and loses nothing in exchange. These are game-changing in the way mesmer plays, and are upgrades without any drawback. So why would you pick core mesmer over the elite specs, ever?

So mirage lose ability to make distance with an evade and literally sitting at the same place covered in AoE's is not a trade off?I was talkign about draw backs AND trade off as you literally trade your ability to evade for another one. Ambushes comes with a drawback and cost, normal evade being replaced with a new one as holo lose F5 and gets "BustedForge".

Who doesnt understand the concept of trade off here?

In the end you didnt understand what I'm tried to say with this "trade off" all around in previous post - in current state mesmer elite spec doesnt need trade off anymore.

> Holo, unlike scrapper, mirage, or chrono, does have to give stuff up. As I mentioned before, it has greater risk with overheating (+heat resource management), forced cooldown on kits, and loss of f5 toolbelt. Plus some minor stuff related to transforms and less interaction with the core class. I don't think these tradeoffs are as powerful as what holo gains, but you cannot say it gives up nothing.

Easy solution as with revenant AND engineer the same way they got their F5: Core mesmer gets some random skill as F5 that being taken away when elite spec traited.

Kits are outdated and serve their purpose in PvE ...oh wait why im repeating myself ?

Engineer core spec offer everything needed to prevent/greatly reduce the biggest drawback of entire elite specialization - enormous amount of vigor at any time and stacking with vigor enchanted endurance gain trait paired with elite spec trait - Vent Exhaust. In such conditions only blind player will blow himself up. But sure, you need to look how much heat you have, sometimes,

> As I said, core mesmer is the inferior choice to chrono and mirage, because you lose nothing for picking those e-specs and gain some substantial buffs. That does not mean core mesmer is in the gutter -- it's just an obviously inferior choice to its e-specs.

> Core engineer, in competitive game modes, is definitely in the gutter. You have to play way harder than everyone else to even perform at the button-mashing level of everyone else. Kits are slow and unwieldy, and our other skills don't make up for it.

I disagree but that doesnt really matter.

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > >The reason core mesmer hasn't "shone" since HoT is because both Chrono and Mirage are straight upgrades to core mesmer. There is no tradeoff beyond opportunity cost, and the benefits are mesmer massive. You could definitely make the same complaint about holo -- the tradeoffs are relatively minor, and the benefits are massive. Except that core engineer was not meta even in HoT, and scrapper wasn't much of an upgrade over core engi. With the powercreep that PoF brought, scrapper was rendered irrelevant for a long time, and core engi even further behind.

> >

> > >scrapper wasn't much of an upgrade over core engi

> > Are you memeing right now or srs?

> >

> >

> > Many elite specs have no trade offs, neither holo/scrapper does as well.

> > You know why core mesmer hasn't "shone" since HoT? Because you had NO chances at ANY build to compete with all busted specs being all around. Just like core engi.

> >

> > Where is that "danger" of being blown up when that heat reduction trait,thanks to perma vigor/adrenal implant, cover it pretty well ? Overheating happening only when engi playing really bad. (If you really mean overheat is a drawback/risk/whatever)

> > Chrono wasnt played until phantasm rework happened, without a second thought about chronophantasma, and still causing issues till this day.

> > (but thats not the point even, berserk was literally dead as well)

> > Where have you seen core mesmers ? Except, unranked f2p mesmers that use time warp and illusions of life on the respawn, cant recall any

> Scrapper does not have any tradeoffs, this is true. However, the only thing it gains by choosing the scrapper line is the ability to wield hammer and function gyro. These are not massive benefits (seriously, function gyro is super buggy, easy to destroy, and difficult to use).

Not massive benefits? How come it became so much popularity and became literally A+ class for AT/monthly/swarming ranked ? I have no idea but I heard NA stacked them hard? On EU last monthly every team ran 1 scrapper? From Jaw vid I seen nothing but scrappers everywhere(cmirage main on scrapper won lol), may be because traits/utilities/weapon heavily benefits the engineer? No ?

>So the lack of a tradeoff for scrapper isn't as big a deal as it is say... for mirage, which gains a new weapon, ambush skills for all weapons, and the ability to attack and dodge with any skill at the same time.

If you want my opinion about mirage elite spec , you will get it :

>! dodge in stun is dumb and justify any amount of nerfs its get(portal anyone?)

>! You are unable to cover your own ambush (A drawback I guess ?) that hit less than warrior dodge(which is unblockable rofl) and cost your precious endurance, mirage cant get as much as engineer,thief,ele and if you arent taking chaos BD you hitting guardian/necro level of vigor. (tldr,they are not free) Without vigor its not that far away from the core in my opinon.

>! New weapon - gutted, hit like a wet noodle, will not play that again.

>! New brand utilities - trash, not even one worth running in PvP.

>! Detarget is nothing new as stealth did the same, could be just entirely removed as it irritates people and make them hate mesmer class more.

>!Elite - 2 short range nonbreakstun blink with a 60 cooldown,thats not elite worth,not even a close. Can we arrange an exchage with a rampage or PLB?

>! So far your drawbacks are : cant move properly , this pathetic 0.75s superspeed cant cover you moving anywhere, try move to the side or backwards?

>!Cant cover ambush with your own evade, you ends up in situation when you have to double dodge just to not get blown. Why its important ? Even if you have 0 ping and press key instant you are vulnerable at the end of the cast, with ping 80-100, you will lose great deal of your evade frames. Interrupting ambush means its cooldown of 4(actually 5?) seconds, power block on mesmer disable your ambushes for 15 seconds. Thief stolen skills cant be affected by cooldowns if they are not given by developer (healing tree)

> Holo does have concrete tradeoffs -- although the benefits are more substantial than the drawbacks. Holo can blow themselves up, have a 5-sec cooldown on kits when entering PF, and lose access to their elite toolbelt skill (f5).

Engineer core spec offer everything needed to prevent the biggest drawback of entire elite specialization - enormous amount of vigor at any time and stacking with vigor enchanted endurance regeneration traits with Vent Exhaust.

Potato codes, its not really my fault they made PF a kit-alike ? I'm sure it was a mistake, kits are outdated my boy,even if you would use any kit, that wouldnt make kitsmith more viable (I dont need to explain, that many skills are bad in pvp not just engineers,okay?)

>There are some other minor issues associated with transforms too. In exchange they get a very powerful... weapon? That said, nobody is arguing that what holo has to give up is in any way comparable to what it gains, but it does have a tradeoff where mirage and chrono do not.

I said about drawback for mirage before under the spoiler.

Chrono indeed has no trade off and he gain F5...Not to count every other elite spec get access to their SUPER-ABILITIES way more frequent than 105 seconds cooldown and need clones to extend its duration and it has a counter as you can destroy the mote to end it right away (they tried to balance it out with a huge cooldown but also hurt the class because of it as it suffers from stupid nerfs that other elite/core dont need).

Can you share with me which trade off mesmer should have after leaving it in such state, axe'd core by 50% nerfs at everything,gutting its core weapons/utilities/damn,they even deleted (not even compensated it anywhere,ever) traits FOR THE SAKE of ELITES that you say HAVE NO TRADE OFF ? So nerfs on entire class to gut elite spec is not a trade off itself? If every other elite spec will be killed off like berserk/drd, go for it, **but then revenants/spellbreakers/fb/scourge will reign supreme as they are unaffected by trade offs as they do now** :joy:

Many weapons/utilities/elite desperately need buff/rework but because "F5 DOES IT TWICE" they never see them(and because they seems to not care, for example MOA/Time warp, phantasms utilities were destroyed because of a chrono CP they dont want to delete).

> Thus, there's no reason ever to pick core mesmer over mirage and chrono -- because they are straight upgrades to the base class. At least with holo, you do lose some of your ability to interact with your core class (kits, f5 skill), and scrapper barely gets anything extra out of the deal. Core engineer still has uses in PvE with condi builds, but it simply cannot compete at a high level in PvP. You never find a use for core mesmer that chrono or mirage cannot do better, in any game mode.

I said about it earlier. Core mesmer is literally trash,unviable,garbage and without elite spec it has no place anywhere, especially in powercrept place called Path Of Fire

>!(SPOILER: Like many other core classes).

After all nerfs that dropped on the mesmer, its better to be buffed to the skies before giving any trade off because all these nerfs : X thing too strong on chrono! X getting nerfed for entire class,not on chrono only. Then they gut vigor, harmless mainhand sword since estabilished to be balanced for years, was gutted because of mirage. Having 2 elite specs that dont go along with each other is a curse, not a blessing, because Anet prefer to gut core rather than elite spec.

I hope you understand my point of view. As for now I have to play Rev as it feels 10 times stronger and impactful than mesmer in its current form.

> @"rng.1024" said:

>The laser functions as a projectile, although with it being unblockable and all it doesn't really matter. But as with all projectiles, it has a travel time. The further away from the engi you are when it fires, the longer it takes to hit you. In this timeframe, you can move out of it's rectangular AoE given you are far enough away before it even hits.

If that would be a thing just running away would be enough to to avoid it or give me exact time stamp on the video ... Would be appreciated, yes, Id rather to not risk getting screwed by that and evade if I actually can see the engineer.

More over as I said, they just use "mass invis elixir" for resustain and throw off elite at you so you cant even see that

> @"rng.1024" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > > > (...) Also avoid his elite, you can blind it or simply sidestep.

> > > > > (...)

> > > >

> > > > It follows you even when you port. You need to dodge, blind it or have stab.#

> > > >

> > > > Holo is not the biggest offender right now. It is great and there is a gap between it and several other less viable classes, but there are some being more annoying. Holo comes next.

> > >

> > > Yeah it follows if he releases awsd - which already alot of people don't know. Then it activates, leaving you a very slight delay which takes a split second to reach you where you can simply walk out of the incoming field.

> > >

> > > You can try it yourself, by having a friend fire it towards you and the walk away at the end of his cast. It's nothing new, alot of skills function like this and they've always countered ports.

> > >

> > > If you want to check it out Boyce does exactly this on several streams, also check out Jazz Man's guide on youtube against holosmith to see different ways it can be countered.

> > >

> > > What exactly is it that makes holo such a big offender in your opinion?

> >

> > The sustain with such an offensive amulet, the damage for such sustainy traitlines. But I said it is** not** the biggest offender right now. :smile:

> >

> > Thought you meant the projectile. But this skill is fine, I think. It simply sucks compared to Rampage for example.

>

> Sure the sustain is decent in a 1v1, but the damage doesn't really rack that much up until they get good might going which already takes alot more than f.ex a warrior needs to do. On top of that they have barely 16000 hp, leaving them extremely vulnerable to a +1 and they need to avoid conditon bombs like everyone else. Way I see it is people get caught in an immob/cc chain and believe holo is op - however the same goes f.ex Rampage where if you dodge the boulder you will in 9/10 cases be fine.

You automatically/passively generate might on its own and tops 25 while fighting and dont even focus on it. Thanks passives,especially improved utility slot as minor passive trait and conversion on holo.

Condition bombs? From who? I mean...condi mirages are rare guests on EU, you will most likely see revenants/wars/scrappers in q.

So 14s cd stun on rifle without any meaningful animation (1200 range bug became a feature lol), holo5 with its huge aoe that goes to all heights 15s cd, unblockable laser on 60s cd. Each is 3 seconds ? May be some 2 seconds? Can anyone tell exact time?: D

> The problem arises when people try to facetank holo and believe they should win, but the entire point of holo forge is for it to be a window of high pressure just like we saw with reaper, take away either core traitline and the sustain/damage ratio of holo becomes terrible.

Reaper deaths charge is 8s cd? Once he used it he cant stick to you anymore? Holo? No problem,holo leap, holo leap, holo leap ! Corona burst 6 seconds ,must dodge twice or you take significant amount of damage with 8 vuln stacks and give him stability, so you tell me I have to evade twice each 6 seconds and how do I evade the rest?

Unlike reaper that has no access to utilities/elite/whatever engi can use all of them and has ranged skill in forge,reaper doesnt. Reaper chill-CC is casting have massive wind-up even with quickness, holo even bugs it out and wave animation doesnt match actual stun(or it was fixed?) thats confusing, hit multiple times as if you rolled away too early you will get caught by the wave coming out from the holo.

Suddenly amount of "must dodge" skills increased .

>If you avoid key skills (Forge 3, Forge 5, elite) then it's east to see that holo doesn't really have that many tricks up it's sleeve. It's a high risk high reward type of play which I am in favour of, even in it's current tanky state. Again compare it to Defense Spellbreaker.

High risk... And we laugh...laugh....laugh....

Defense spellbreaker , are they a problem ?

> @"rng.1024" said:

What you just said I seen some french engi did to me in duels. He turned his back to me and hide laser animation with his body and then because of skill retargeting he hit me with it, I know that... but this

>Also avoid his elite, you can blind it or simply sidestep.

What is this? As I know you can sidestep certain projectiles by moving right/left and it will not hit you but channeling laser ... ?I dont get it

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > @"bOTEB.1573" said:

> > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > > > > _**LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd**_

> > > > > > I don't care

> > > > > > _**SnIpEr iS a RoLe**_

> > > > > > I don't care

> > > > > > _**It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt**_

> > > > > > I don't care

> > > > >

> > > > > You just stated some of the reasons why SLB is in its current position, yet you don't respect these arguments. Remind me of my daughter that wanted a pony couple of years ago - really sweet kid ;)

> > > > >

> > > > I also stated why those reasons are invalid, but I suppose you ignored that.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

> > > > >

> > > > > People playing another overtuned class like mesmers . engies , warriors..pick your poison...but all they share in common is that they're deluded...their own class should be on the chopping board along with soulbeast

> > > >

> > > > In case you missed it, many of us here are also calling for Engies and Warriors (SB, Rampage) to be reigned in. Basically any still power-crept spec that's an outlier from the majority. And also in case you missed it, Mesmers already had their turn with the chopping board. It lasted over a year and gutted them anywhere from 50-67% across multiple traits, weapons, and skills, up and down both elites and core.

> > >

> > > Yes..as a part-time ranger main with over 2k hours I am all for nerfing Sic'em but at the same time **I really need engies and warriors to be reigned in as soon as possible** , I mainly play ranger to stand a chance against overtuned engies and wars...with everything else I can even use an ele

> >

> > Then I think we're on the same page. :smile:

>

> I wonder about that in truth...despite all these "nerfs" , the mesmer class itself it's still up there with the "gods"...not primordial god..but a god nevertheless, the nerfs mesmer received were not aimed to kill the class

What "god mesmers"? Small hint, if you nerf damage of multiple things by 50% damage/duration/increase cooldowns and just delete traits that doesnt mean "aimed to kill", can the same nerf values can be applied on all other classes ?

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

>The reason core mesmer hasn't "shone" since HoT is because both Chrono and Mirage are straight upgrades to core mesmer. There is no tradeoff beyond opportunity cost, and the benefits are mesmer massive. You could definitely make the same complaint about holo -- the tradeoffs are relatively minor, and the benefits are massive. Except that core engineer was not meta even in HoT, and scrapper wasn't much of an upgrade over core engi. With the powercreep that PoF brought, scrapper was rendered irrelevant for a long time, and core engi even further behind.

>scrapper wasn't much of an upgrade over core engi

Are you memeing right now or srs?

Many elite specs have no trade offs, neither holo/scrapper does as well.

You know why core mesmer hasn't "shone" since HoT? Because you had NO chances at ANY build to compete with all busted specs being all around. Just like core engi.

Where is that "danger" of being blown up when that heat reduction trait,thanks to perma vigor/adrenal implant, cover it pretty well ? Overheating happening only when engi playing really bad. (If you really mean overheat is a drawback/risk/whatever)

Chrono wasnt played until phantasm rework happened, without a second thought about chronophantasma, and still causing issues till this day.

(but thats not the point even, berserk was literally dead as well)

Where have you seen core mesmers ? Except, unranked f2p mesmers that use time warp and illusions of life on the respawn, cant recall any

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"rng.1024" said:

> > > Yeah it follows if he releases awsd - which already alot of people don't know. Then it activates, leaving you a very slight delay which takes a split second to reach you where you can simply walk out of the incoming field.

> > >

> > > You can try it yourself, by having a friend fire it towards you and the walk away at the end of his cast. It's nothing new, alot of skills function like this and they've always countered ports.

> > >

> > > If you want to check it out Boyce does exactly this on several streams, also check out Jazz Man's guide on youtube against holosmith to see different ways it can be countered.

> > What is this nonsense dude? Can you provide a link or people supposed to look for god know what and god know where?

> > From explanation I understood exactly NOTHING, how the hell you sidestep huge laser, especially when 90% of times its comes from stealth

>

> Channeled skills will track targets in stealth or ports, especially if it's a channeled, rooted skill like Prime Light Beam.

I know that. Why you tell me that?

>@rng.1024 said:

>(...) Also avoid his elite, you can blind it or simply sidestep.

Does he imply you can sidestep laser elite OR what the hell i'm looking at ?

> @"Vithzerai.3291" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > To reiterate something that was said in another thread.

> > Rampage is not the only issue, but usually it spells death most people after its use. Warrior has more skills that you MUST dodge than just rampage, and usually it's a death sentence after you have exhausted your defenses trying to deal with the warrior.

> > Don't be surprised if Rampage does get nerfed, the best thing you could do honestly is hope that a reasonable proposal is looked at. If not, expect a lot of core traits to be nerfed for rampage.

> > I would remind all of you of the over nerfs to full counter as a cautionary tale of leaving anet to their own devices.

>

> This is probably the most valuable post yet out of this whole discussion. Cmon bois, rampage is a lil' too much. I've been playing SB to get back into the game and you can turn 1v1's and teamfights like crazy with rampage, the only thing keeping it in check is Necro corrupt really. As Solori said, would you rather they directly nerf Rampage, or indirectly nerf it by downgrading everything else in Warrior. Warrior has plenty of other things going for it, and as long as they don't completely hammer Rampage into the ground it'll still be perfectly useable. Though the engi variant would also need a retune, for the record.

As I previously said in the other rampage thread, how its overtuned, but rampage-mains apparently have a rampage instead of the brain... How can people be so delusional and be in denial that spb/rampage hard-carry them.

My thread about all elites and if rampage is not being nerfed to the ground for that long and being taken as prime example of how balanced elite looks like(20.000 bonus health and 25% damage reduction and slowing conditions 33% reduced (but our PRO TORQ manages to die in rampage anyway),lul damage,mobility,CCs),especially with its cooldown, other elites must be brought to its level or rampage brought to other elite levels as MOA/FGS/Lichtransform and lose its PHYSICAL status and left at 150s cd

> @"rng.1024" said:

> Yeah it follows if he releases awsd - which already alot of people don't know. Then it activates, leaving you a very slight delay which takes a split second to reach you where you can simply walk out of the incoming field.

>

> You can try it yourself, by having a friend fire it towards you and the walk away at the end of his cast. It's nothing new, alot of skills function like this and they've always countered ports.

>

> If you want to check it out Boyce does exactly this on several streams, also check out Jazz Man's guide on youtube against holosmith to see different ways it can be countered.

What is this nonsense dude? Can you provide a link or people supposed to look for god know what and god know where?

From explanation I understood exactly NOTHING, how the hell you sidestep huge laser, especially when 90% of times its comes from stealth

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > What a crazy world we live in when a patch hits and the only thing in it is a bunch of pvp/wvw REVENANT nerfs... Of all the classes to tone down.

>

> Yes, the build that has been S tier and on every MAT winning team for a year now, always has multiple showings in the top 10 in ranked, tons of representation in the top 100, and BenP has confirmed that teams with revs in ranked have a 72% higher win rate than teams without rev. Yes. That build got nerfed. What is the world coming too.

>

> You lot don't know what real nerfs feel like.

Do you mean 50-70% damage/duration/cd increase nerfs? Where have I seen them....

Asked multiple revenants and from playing myself ... Its still broken . Barely anything changed.

Heard rumors herald getting more nerfs... ?

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > > Holo still needs to be toned down.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What don't they have?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I don't know, but I do know what they have.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * Great healing

> > > > > > > * great armor

> > > > > > > * great mobility

> > > > > > > * great damage

> > > > > > > * invuln

> > > > > > > * stealth

> > > > > > > * boon fart extraordinaire

> > > > > > > * multi foe sustainability

> > > > > > > * unblockable

> > > > > > > * blocks

> > > > > > > * superspeed (same trait drops movement impede like thief grandmasters, even tho its mid tier)

> > > > > > > * oh and then they got photon forge

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I mean, c'mon....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't think anyone has forgotten.

> > > > > > You will also run into the few notable engie mains who will do anything and everything possible to make sure nerf suggestions for engi remain buried or are swiftly discredited.

> > > > > > Some of the issues with Holo stem from the Alchemy tree. A good place to start is there, for example.

> > > > > > They could nerf Invigorating Speed. Make it a 10s CD with a 3s Vigor duration.

> > > > >

> > > > > How about they dont touch the core engineer tree. If they want to nerf holo then nerf holo. Otherwise, leave core traits alone.

> > > > Since you agree on that ... is Mesmer getting 100% nerf revert on all core traits/weapons?

> > >

> > > No, idk? Mesmer was never really in a bad spot to begin with. Idk about mesmer recent changes or anything since I havent really touched mines since before HoT.

> > So, from your perspective: dont touch my main core but nerf other classes to its core, I dont care. Cant be even more biased at this point . You just demonstrated how 99% of "community" want thing to go. I just wish now engineer will get the same treatment as mesmer, gutted core instead of elite specs with over 50% nerfs at everything, then I will tell to engi mains they never been in a bad spot to begin with.

>

> Its not biased opinion when I never brought attention to mesmer. Not every class is balanced the same way. So why should my thoughts on core engineer(Which is already weak) be reflected on mesmer? Especially in a engineer focused topic.

>

> Not even sure where I said to nerf any other class in the post you quoted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dont care, what exactly you wanted, a lot of other people demanded that. Not seeing a single reason to treat engineer in a special way other than any other class, suddenly its normal to gut core class traits/weapons for other classes but your must be untouched.

>But I want to see consistency in the way things are balanced.

>If one class is nerfed ( in this case a a few) through core and elite specs to deal with a problem. I see no reason why another class is automatically exempt from the same treatment.

Core mesmer never been shining since HoT but that never stopped to nerf core instead of elite spec, so your "core engi is already weak" is completely irrelevant. Core engi is that weak that we see 3 holo builds in "great" metabattle category and scrapper as meta one.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> * stability and stability access

Against mesmer/ranger easy close to 100% stability uptime. Each 6 seconds you have to avoid corona burst that slap you for 3-4k, twice, does dodge comes back that quick ? Probably not

> * mega might stacking

Mega boon stacking all by passives and new busted conversion brough by holosmith each time you leave forge that also gives them more boons. 5 seconds CD on forge makes it hilarious. Want to start taking down boons ? Make it cleanse only, no conversions.

Look at damn elixir first minor,thats better than their active utility skill and has less 10s cd than original, with elixir trait its gives on 24s cd : 7 mights,swiftness,fury,retal. Yes ! You really took that damage, here is free utility skill with even lower cd!

I can compare this to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Metaphysical_Rejuvenation 10s regen for 1300 hp? Really ? How is this is not SMITERSBOONED YET? Both first minor traits not even freaking worth of one engi minor,not even close to be.

Busy rn,might add later

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > Holo still needs to be toned down.

> > > > >

> > > > > What don't they have?

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't know, but I do know what they have.

> > > > >

> > > > > * Great healing

> > > > > * great armor

> > > > > * great mobility

> > > > > * great damage

> > > > > * invuln

> > > > > * stealth

> > > > > * boon fart extraordinaire

> > > > > * multi foe sustainability

> > > > > * unblockable

> > > > > * blocks

> > > > > * superspeed (same trait drops movement impede like thief grandmasters, even tho its mid tier)

> > > > > * oh and then they got photon forge

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean, c'mon....

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I don't think anyone has forgotten.

> > > > You will also run into the few notable engie mains who will do anything and everything possible to make sure nerf suggestions for engi remain buried or are swiftly discredited.

> > > > Some of the issues with Holo stem from the Alchemy tree. A good place to start is there, for example.

> > > > They could nerf Invigorating Speed. Make it a 10s CD with a 3s Vigor duration.

> > >

> > > How about they dont touch the core engineer tree. If they want to nerf holo then nerf holo. Otherwise, leave core traits alone.

> > Since you agree on that ... is Mesmer getting 100% nerf revert on all core traits/weapons?

>

> No, idk? Mesmer was never really in a bad spot to begin with. Idk about mesmer recent changes or anything since I havent really touched mines since before HoT.

So, from your perspective: dont touch my main core but nerf other classes to its core, I dont care. Cant be even more biased at this point . You just demonstrated how 99% of "community" want thing to go. I just wish now engineer will get the same treatment as mesmer, gutted core instead of elite specs with over 50% nerfs at everything, then I will tell to engi mains they never been in a bad spot to begin with.

> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > Holo still needs to be toned down.

> > >

> > > What don't they have?

> > >

> > > I don't know, but I do know what they have.

> > >

> > > * Great healing

> > > * great armor

> > > * great mobility

> > > * great damage

> > > * invuln

> > > * stealth

> > > * boon fart extraordinaire

> > > * multi foe sustainability

> > > * unblockable

> > > * blocks

> > > * superspeed (same trait drops movement impede like thief grandmasters, even tho its mid tier)

> > > * oh and then they got photon forge

> > >

> > > I mean, c'mon....

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don't think anyone has forgotten.

> > You will also run into the few notable engie mains who will do anything and everything possible to make sure nerf suggestions for engi remain buried or are swiftly discredited.

> > Some of the issues with Holo stem from the Alchemy tree. A good place to start is there, for example.

> > They could nerf Invigorating Speed. Make it a 10s CD with a 3s Vigor duration.

>

> How about they dont touch the core engineer tree. If they want to nerf holo then nerf holo. Otherwise, leave core traits alone.

Since you agree on that ... is Mesmer getting 100% nerf revert on all core traits/weapons?

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > @"Solori.6025"

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

> > > > What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!

> > > > Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.

> > > > Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

> > > > > Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.

> > > > > _Why?_ ...

> > > > Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

> > > > > Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

> > > > Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

> > > > > 4.

> > > > Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

> > >

> > > lol

> > >

> > > 1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range

> > > 2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly _after_ getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.

> > > 3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.

> > > 4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.

> > > 5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's no SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:

> > > - The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)

> > > - The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

> > >

> > > As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

> > I just lol at this 2250 range tbh, tremendous waste of resources with no guarantee on kill and once you fail you are as good as dead, which is exact why its a meme

> > I should watch NA quality players playing like monkaS and fail to deliver anything? Sounds like a plan ! /s

> > Not really instant, countless amount of times I evaded that unless you completely brain afk and dont even think about it even then passives carry the day for thieves/holos/scrappers/spbs and whoever passive-autoproc saved there.

> > He didnt ran that magical almighty doublemantra, didnt he ? Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that the only "team" in the entire game? If you can prove ping thing then I believe, otherwise not.

> > Before they deleted pretty much every major master trait at dueling mesmer representation was close to none, didnt stop them.

> > Honestly, I highly dont care about mirage, dodge in CC made everyone scream like autists with foam at the mouth and instead of solve the problems they intentionally made for sales,they just ruined core to hell.

> > The same I can say about mesmer burst, only blind can die to it

>

> 1. That's why mantra mesmers play heavily around LoS. They don't need an immense amount of defenses when all they need to do is burst, kite behind LoS, and repeat. Eventually, either their opponent manages to kill them or they make a mistake and get one-shot.

> 2. While the number of top players on EU is higher, the skill level of top players on NA is the same.

> 3. Just because you evaded the attack doesn't mean it's not nearly instant. You can watch any montage of a power mesmer hitting their combo and you have about a quarter of a second to react before you die. Compare that to SE OWP LB SLBs who need to channel about 1.9 seconds of Rapid Fire to kill someone.

> 4. No he didn't run mantas. He despises them because of how little skill they require to play effectively.

> 5. I believe there's a screenshot somewhere from Jeff a few months ago that showed how high his ping was during that tournament.

> 6. I don't understand what you're talking about but in regards to the mantra mesmer burst: the mantras are instant cast so whether or not the damage lands depends on the mesmer, not their target.

I have no idea what LoS you talking about, all I can imagine if I'd play mantra mesmer any thieves/revs/holos/scrappers would eat me alive on the map and make me rage delete the game despite all LoS you can find on maps

So did you farm 2 top players you 1x2'd?

I dont have issues with mantra mesmers because they waste their mantra and free to kill in 99% of the cases and easly shut down by a thief that has 0.5 of a brain cell or just a rev that need to use only one UA to send him on respawn , they suffer from LoS the most as their only opportunity is blink which is on 30s cd, may the god bless you if you play against two s/d thieves.

Most likely because its hot garbage, no other reason, as it to "have fun" like this meme zerk DE.

I dont know even...except that no one ever playing this mantras here, ever... I tried few time and I was irritated how dumb to run around and before every burst you need to basically stand AFK waiting for mantra to charge and your target is jumping like monkey and to land the burst he shouldnt random evade/block/have stability/passives to actually kill something. Thats where "reliable" becomes highly UNRELIABLE for me. Missed a burst ? How do you RELIABLY land it with f3 being 38s cd?

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025"

> > >

> > > 1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

> > What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!

> > Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.

> > Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

> > > Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.

> > > _Why?_ ...

> > Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

> > > Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

> > Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

> > > 4.

> > Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

>

> lol

>

> 1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range

> 2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly _after_ getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.

> 3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.

> 4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.

> 5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's no SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:

> - The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)

> - The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

>

> As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

I just lol at this 2250 range tbh, tremendous waste of resources with no guarantee on kill and once you fail you are as good as dead, which is exact why its a meme

I should watch NA quality players playing like monkaS and fail to deliver anything? Sounds like a plan ! /s

Not really instant, countless amount of times I evaded that unless you completely brain afk and dont even think about it even then passives carry the day for thieves/holos/scrappers/spbs and whoever passive-autoproc saved there.

He didnt ran that magical almighty doublemantra, didnt he ? Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that the only "team" in the entire game? If you can prove ping thing then I believe, otherwise not.

Before they deleted pretty much every major master trait at dueling mesmer representation was close to none, didnt stop them.

Honestly, I highly dont care about mirage, dodge in CC made everyone scream like autists with foam at the mouth and instead of solve the problems they intentionally made for sales,they just ruined core to hell.

The same I can say about mesmer burst, only blind can die to it

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> @"Solori.6025"

>

> 1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!

Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.

Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

> Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.

> _Why?_ ...

Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

> Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

> 4.

Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > Avoiding backstabs and hitting people is not even what I'm talking about tho... I meant that without Gaze of Darkness you have literally no way of killing a good Thief/Holo/Soulbeast/Mirage who can just stealth to drop target+blink away, and even with PT+DS, that one or two second head start that stealth bought them means that you'll never catch them.... Your only hope w/o that reveal is to like mega burst them from 100-0 before they can react, but you're not doing that with Jalis and no Herald modifiers. :bleep_bloop:

> > Not true. Its 1800 range port that WILL catch up with a 1200 teleport from the mesmer easly.

> > So any class that has no reveal has no place in the PvP? LuL

>

> Yeah cuz they only brought the one mobility skill? o.O

>

> lol

As I assume most of mesmers disappear/shifted to power meme builds they arent running more than a blink (assuming they play chrono,havent seen mirages at ~1700 rating but thats cant be used as proof since in my team 3 times was DRD THIEF WITH A THIEF GUILD ! ! !)

> @"Revolution.5409" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

>

> I understand what you mean, but would you have preferred to see mirage as a druid?

What? Do you mean like mirage would be as bad as druid? I'd say mesmer is a meme now at this point, couldnt care less about mirage which comes with more downsides than cons, lol.

How come rn top10 is a druid main?

https://ibb.co/zXmRrRD

https://ibb.co/0csL1fz

How they even win with a druid ? p.s beaten guys are tryhards/monthly winners multiple times.

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

>

> RIGHT!

>

> Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

Actually you just described rampage elite...

>Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

Rampage-mains using exact same arguments but add also random babbling about l2p

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> Avoiding backstabs and hitting people is not even what I'm talking about tho... I meant that without Gaze of Darkness you have literally no way of killing a good Thief/Holo/Soulbeast/Mirage who can just stealth to drop target+blink away, and even with PT+DS, that one or two second head start that stealth bought them means that you'll never catch them.... Your only hope w/o that reveal is to like mega burst them from 100-0 before they can react, but you're not doing that with Jalis and no Herald modifiers. :bleep_bloop:

Not true. Its 1800 range port that WILL catch up with a 1200 teleport from the mesmer easly.

So any class that has no reveal has no place in the PvP? LuL

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> Who would've thought that balance issues would arise when you take a skill that was designed years prior, balanced around it being used for a _pet_, only to keep its damage modifier as-is without any adjustments when given interaction to the player via Soulbeast.

>

> Regardless of whether it is as valuable as other utility skills, the skill is unhealthy as is. I honestly don't know why people try to defend this dumb gimmick. 40% damage modifier from a single utility skill? And no, not just for a few attacks, but for 10 flat seconds, with slightly over 33% uptime when traited. This skill is a balance embarrassment and belongs in the garbage bin. Too much nerfing and it'll make the skill absolute trash, so I'm in favor it being reworked to something more balanced and healthy for the game. People are suggesting to nerf things like longbow, but the weapon is well-balanced as is and doesn't need any nerfs (or buffs) to it.

Agree but range on this weapon is literally bugged and 400 further than intended. Lets call it a bug fix

> @"Revolution.5409" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

>

> With mirage it worked because an entire community required an attunement for the profession, here I only see people who require nerfs because they feel that their profession is no longer the strongest.

You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

>> @"Vithzerai.3291" said:

> What're we planning on making unviable after Soulbeast by the way bois?

Rampage-main is on my dartboard and people who have rampage instead of the brain