Do not nerf ranger pets

[Tazer.2157]

After browsing through the forums going through all the posts asking for nerfs, I am certain that the pets are going to be nerfed in the next balance patch. But I would like to suggest a new solution. Nerfing builds that maximize pets is taking options away from players. If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay. The trade-off can be a longer pet death. With this the ranger looses its damage source if the pet is killed/downed. And soulbeasts should not be able to merge with a dead pet and automatically revive them. The pet is a part of the ranger class. Do not make them redundant. Maybe change the beastmastery trait to take the attributes from the player and transfer them to the pet instead of the pet gaining attributes out of nowhere? This way choosing to make the pet stronger would make the ranger weaker. This is just a suggestion and I have no idea if this is a good or a bad one. What do you guys think? I would definitely love to see the game give us multiple options for builds as it is better than nerfing builds to an unusable state.

 

 

 

[Dantheman.3589]

If you want ranger to be at all viable, you should pray for pet damage nerfs instead of these changes, in all honesty.

[shadowpass.4236]

If you kill the pet, our pet swap time to revive it becomes quadrupled. I'm not sure how much longer you'd like it to get.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

 

This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

 

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

>

> This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

>

Why? Isn’t applying a condi field and have that do damage for you in pvp similar to having a pet do damage? Damage over time is as engaging gameplay as a pet doing damage. By making the pet death more impactful, the player now cannot send their pet rushing blindly into combat. Now they have to use their recall more often and only use the f1 on their pet when they are absolutely certain of a kill. If you really want to make pvp all about player skill you should be advocating to removing all condi builds and only have valid power builds in game. Do damage only when making contact with players.But you won’t do that will you?

 

[Tazer.2157]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> If you kill the pet, our pet swap time to revive it becomes quadrupled. I'm not sure how much longer you'd like it to get.

 

 

I’m advocating them to make the pet stronger but by doing so there should be a trade off. A good example is a hero in dota 2 called the lone Druid where the pet is the main damage source and a tank. The downside of the hero class is that the pet resummon has a very long cool down if the pet is killed. And frankly I find it funny that the pet is made viable in a game like dota 2 which is a highly competitive game in the esports scene worth millions of dollars while people have a problem with pets in gw2 pvp.

 

In regards to the time, I don’t have a number, but this is just an idea of what they can do instead of just reducing the pet damage.

[Topher.5631]

After you kill the pet, put pet swap on cooldown instead of after the ranger switches pets. That way it rewards rangers who pay attention to it, while still offering counterplay for those who have a hard time with it. Make it res after using something like strength of the pack, or move it to a master tier trait in beastmastery . After that, don't touch stats. Like previously mentioned, it should be a mechanic of the class and not something useless, but it still needs to be toned down.

~Not a ranger main btw

[LughLongArm.5460]

some pets could use small shaving in pvp but also require huge buff for WvW. If they cannot do this split, don't touch the pets.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

> >

> > This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

> >

> Why? Isn’t applying a condi field and have that do damage for you in pvp similar to having a pet do damage? Damage over time is as engaging gameplay as a pet doing damage. By making the pet death more impactful, the player now cannot send their pet rushing blindly into combat. Now they have to use their recall more often and only use the f1 on their pet when they are absolutely certain of a kill. If you really want to make pvp all about player skill you should be advocating to removing all condi builds and only have valid power builds in game. Do damage only when making contact with players.But you won’t do that will you?

>

 

Yeah, it's the same -I hate it when random condi fields chase me around and bodyblock non-pen projectiles.

[Tharan.9085]

Nice meme.

[Erzian.5218]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > If you kill the pet, our pet swap time to revive it becomes quadrupled. I'm not sure how much longer you'd like it to get.

>

>

> I’m advocating them to make the pet stronger but by doing so there should be a trade off. A good example is a hero in dota 2 called the lone Druid where the pet is the main damage source and a tank. The downside of the hero class is that the pet resummon has a very long cool down if the pet is killed. And frankly I find it funny that the pet is made viable in a game like dota 2 which is a highly competitive game in the esports scene worth millions of dollars while people have a problem with pets in gw2 pvp.

>

> In regards to the time, I don’t have a number, but this is just an idea of what they can do instead of just reducing the pet damage.

 

There is a key difference: the lone Druid player has to control both, the lone Druid and his bear and command 100 % of their actions. In gw2, the pet is an AI that takes some minor input from the player.

Having to control twice as many units increases the importance of the lone Druid player’s performance/skill, having an AI that acts mostly on its own puts the burden on the opponent instead of the ranger player.

 

 

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Erzian.5218" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > If you kill the pet, our pet swap time to revive it becomes quadrupled. I'm not sure how much longer you'd like it to get.

> >

> >

> > I’m advocating them to make the pet stronger but by doing so there should be a trade off. A good example is a hero in dota 2 called the lone Druid where the pet is the main damage source and a tank. The downside of the hero class is that the pet resummon has a very long cool down if the pet is killed. And frankly I find it funny that the pet is made viable in a game like dota 2 which is a highly competitive game in the esports scene worth millions of dollars while people have a problem with pets in gw2 pvp.

> >

> > In regards to the time, I don’t have a number, but this is just an idea of what they can do instead of just reducing the pet damage.

>

> There is a key difference: the lone Druid player has to control both, the lone Druid and his bear and command 100 % of their actions. In gw2, the pet is an AI that takes some minor input from the player.

> Having to control twice as many units increases the importance of the lone Druid player’s performance/skill, having an AI that acts mostly on its own puts the burden on the opponent instead of the ranger player.

>

>

 

What about damage over time modifiers? Isn't that an AI doing the damage for you when you are not even targeting the player? I am talking about fear fields, condi fields, burn damage. If you have played Dota 2 you will know that the you can just have radiance on pet and have the pet walk around and have the radiance do burn damage. In fact radiance is a core item for the lone druid. The way pets work in gw2 cannot be changed, there will always be an attack and a guard and a withdraw. What gw2 can do is make ranger players use the pet controls more often. A punishing pet death would mean

a. The class would have its damage significantly lowered once the pet is killed

b. More awareness about pet controls.

c. An option for players to choose his/her pet be the main damage dealer (more build variety)

 

If pet gets a nerf, you are removing a build option for rangers and after rangers it will be another class. This has happened in WoW where after cries for nerf after nerf, resulted in few specs that are totally unplayable tossed into the garbage bin of irrelevance. Is that what you want in GW2?

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > > If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

> > >

> > > This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

> > >

> > Why? Isn’t applying a condi field and have that do damage for you in pvp similar to having a pet do damage? Damage over time is as engaging gameplay as a pet doing damage. By making the pet death more impactful, the player now cannot send their pet rushing blindly into combat. Now they have to use their recall more often and only use the f1 on their pet when they are absolutely certain of a kill. If you really want to make pvp all about player skill you should be advocating to removing all condi builds and only have valid power builds in game. Do damage only when making contact with players.But you won’t do that will you?

> >

>

> Yeah, it's the same -I hate it when random condi fields chase me around and bodyblock non-pen projectiles.

 

Sure it is so engaging to have the rev and mesmer bombard you with torment and confusion. I guess I will have to fill my slots up with more condi clears! But I do think that pets should only attack when the player is within LOS of the opponent.

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Tharan.9085" said:

> Nice meme.

 

The only meme around here is your unhelpful comment which really doesn't say much. Would be helpful why you think that way and why you think nerfing a build option is good for the game.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> Sure it is so engaging to have the rev and mesmer bombard you with torment and confusion. I guess I will have to fill my slots up with more condi clears! But I do think that pets should only attack when the player is within LOS of the opponent.

 

Tbh mesmer is pretty skilled and hard to play right now, it's at least not the staff camping zzz gameplay.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

This is a really bad take. Just accept the nerfs.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

>

> This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

>

 

They should have thought about that when designing ranger and load 3/4 of ranger dmg on the pet....instead than trying to reinvent the wheel they should have played other MMOs to get an idea on how to design a ranger class or maybe...**they should have just used GW1 idea of ranger**

 

Reckless innovation is nothing more than glorified blunder

 

Now you end up with a class and a dead, useless mechanic making the class virtually unplayable..you share stats and depend on a pet that does no dmg, can't hit moving targets and die after 2 aoes...brilliant game designing there...

[Stand The Wall.6987]

some pet damage is off the charts but most isn't. imo whats op for ranger is maul cd and marksmanship mods, that's it. these can be nerfed without destroying ranger.

 

oh and soulbeast fresh reinforcement. still drives me crazy that this trait can double might... oh well. some changes are so obvious that I wonder if anet balance team is run by a baby with a collage picture of things to nerf in front of it and whats selected for nerfing is decided by a little nerf hammer. at random.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

> >

> > This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

> >

> Why? Isn’t applying a condi field and have that do damage for you in pvp similar to having a pet do damage? Damage over time is as engaging gameplay as a pet doing damage. By making the pet death more impactful, the player now cannot send their pet rushing blindly into combat. Now they have to use their recall more often and only use the f1 on their pet when they are absolutely certain of a kill. If you really want to make pvp all about player skill you should be advocating to removing all condi builds and only have valid power builds in game. Do damage only when making contact with players.But you won’t do that will you?

>

 

Combat in gw2 is very complex, and requires active decision making and quick reactions. Relying on pet AI (which is very slow and clunky) would remove a lot of gameplay elements that are only present when two people fight eachother. AI is very predictable, and often exploitable, so in order for pets to be a significant threat they would have to be made incredibly powerful to offset all their AI weaknesses. Simply put, it would turn fights into a pve battle. As for condi, there are valid arguments about how it isnt a healthy playstyle for competitive pvp, and there are valid arguments about why it is good for pvp. Its a far more complicated topic than pets.

[Erazik.7059]

Delete birds and tiger or nerf them so they are useless. Not fun to play against, takes 0 skill and its not a good way to play ,,pvp''. Core ranger used to be different: if u miss ur burst with bambi u get punished now u can just run in a circle while the pet autoattacks for 3k. Anyone who says ,,just kill the pet'' should uninstall. Go play pve if u wanna fight vs AI

[Bazsi.2734]

Current stats on Rock Gazelle: 22K health and 3K thoughness and I've seen up to 7K damages with its charge. Why would you want to buff something like this?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

From the sounds of cmc in teapots vid the teams definitely making some adjustments to certain ranger pets.

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> Current stats on Rock Gazelle: 22K health and 3K thoughness and I've seen up to 7K damages with its charge. Why would you want to buff something like this?

I am not talking about a buff. I am talking about a rework to the pet rather than a nerf.

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Erazik.7059" said:

> Delete birds and tiger or nerf them so they are useless. Not fun to play against, takes 0 skill and its not a good way to play ,,pvp''. Core ranger used to be different: if u miss ur burst with bambi u get punished now u can just run in a circle while the pet autoattacks for 3k. Anyone who says ,,just kill the pet'' should uninstall. Go play pve if u wanna fight vs AI

 

By this logic, every player using condi damage should uninstall the game as well after all damage over time is damage done by ai even when you don't hit the player in game. Make power the only viable spec in PvP. You only do damage when you make contact with the opposing player. Btw I do not think you even read my original post to even make this comment.

 

 

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> > > > @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > > > If a ranger player wants to have their pet do most of the damage for them, the game should allow that type of gameplay.

> > >

> > > This kind of gameplay belongs in pve, and is not suited to pvp in gw2.

> > >

> > Why? Isn’t applying a condi field and have that do damage for you in pvp similar to having a pet do damage? Damage over time is as engaging gameplay as a pet doing damage. By making the pet death more impactful, the player now cannot send their pet rushing blindly into combat. Now they have to use their recall more often and only use the f1 on their pet when they are absolutely certain of a kill. If you really want to make pvp all about player skill you should be advocating to removing all condi builds and only have valid power builds in game. Do damage only when making contact with players.But you won’t do that will you?

> >

>

> Combat in gw2 is very complex, and requires active decision making and quick reactions. Relying on pet AI (which is very slow and clunky) would remove a lot of gameplay elements that are only present when two people fight eachother. AI is very predictable, and often exploitable, so in order for pets to be a significant threat they would have to be made incredibly powerful to offset all their AI weaknesses. Simply put, it would turn fights into a pve battle. As for condi, there are valid arguments about how it isnt a healthy playstyle for competitive pvp, and there are valid arguments about why it is good for pvp. Its a far more complicated topic than pets.

 

You are talking about a game that uses tab to target. Take any ranged damage skill, you press a button and the skill does damage when you just target the player using tab. How is a pet attack any different? You tab target the player and press f1. Both take two buttons. The AI may be slow and clunky, but the option to remove the pet from game or make it irrelevant is not good for the game. My post actually asks for changes that would make pet management more of a thing than it currently is. I do not want rangers simply pressing f1 without no consequence. That is bad game play and I recognize that. My original post suggests making pet builds a thing, the tradeoff being the ranger looses most of its damage when the pet is killed (longer pet revival cd). Healthy gameplay is about giving more options to players, it is not about removing options. Another change is that the pet can only attack if the player is within LOS of the other, which is currently not the case in GW2.