AldKai.9712 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. > > I wonder how many AAA MMO games you have helped design or balance or maintain...ha yes...none I have never served in any government position either but that doesn't mean I'm unqualified to vote. I bet you never produced any wine in your life but doesn't that mean you should not be allowed to drink any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Lol vallun " thiefs fine" community "see vallun said it fine quit complaining " Vallun "condi thief is mostly fine" community "another bad opinion of valluns" lol funny how things are different when statements don't line up with communities agenda lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AldKai.9712 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Lol vallun " thiefs fine" community "see vallun said it fine quit complaining " > Vallun "condi thief is mostly fine" community "another bad opinion of valluns" lol funny how things are different when statements don't line up with communities agenda lol. lol funny lol except that the only thieves that didn't quit PvP are condi ones. So if anything I'm the one that goes against the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > ****@"AldKai.9712" said: > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. i give the Op Respect for having the courage for saying it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > > > > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > > > > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. > > > > I wonder how many AAA MMO games you have helped design or balance or maintain...ha yes...none > > I have never served in any government position either but that doesn't mean I'm unqualified to vote. > > I bet you never produced any wine in your life but doesn't that mean you should not be allowed to drink any? I can vote..and hope for the best and I can drink wine..but I won't be able to really discern a good one from a great one as I lack the practical experience to do so, do you get my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Lol vallun " thiefs fine" community "see vallun said it fine quit complaining " > Vallun "condi thief is mostly fine" community "another bad opinion of valluns" lol funny how things are different when statements don't line up with communities agenda lol. The **loud voices** on the forum...do not speak for the entirety of the community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Let's break this down shall we: > @"AldKai.9712" said: > EDIT: I bet you didn't even know that Endure Pain has no effect on condition damage. In fact nothing does. Every single defense in the game affects power Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions. Power isn't affected by resistance and cleanses but it is affected by toughness, weakness and protection. Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage. You can take resistance runes etc for passive condition reduction. > which requires three different stats to be effective. Let me copy paste one of my recent comments: "Where is this 1200 condition damage 900 vitality 900 toughness amulet everyone keeps talking about? Nearly every condi amulet has either precision or power. By the way, conditions scale less with condition damage. Poison has like 0.06 coefficient lol. Confusion's DoT doesn't even scale with condition damage, it always does 10 damage per second flat." > Only one single countermeasure exists for condition damage, and it's an active, costly one, aka cleanse. Explained above. > Power got nerfed while condi has not Except it did. A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. > and any mesmer can do 22k damage from prone position and the average standing damage of most burn-focused classes is 54k over 8 seconds (and they say Power is burst-based...). Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. > That's also why I don't let streamers and other professional socialites think for me. That's the only correct thing you have said in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Koen.1327" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mes > > > > > > > power much harder > > > > > > > > > > > > im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels. > > > > > > > > > > the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes? > > > > > > > > you can guess that 1 yourself > > > > > > would be a shot in the blue, pls elaborate > > > i wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much more > > > condi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me > > > > > > > condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile. > > its better in every single way. > > ofc not, you are comparing projectiles vs aoe melee shatter and the strength of each is situational > condi thief has 2 dodges and then nothing, what tankiness is there? this is the weakest build for node sustain i've seen for thieves > > yes it's strong and better suited in the current meta (as is power) but i still don't see why out of all condi thief checks out mes > mes is more flexible and can fill more roles in 5v5, guess that's for me a reason to run it - mind you, 99% of the games is unorganized rated games if you dont understand why condi thief is better then condi mes then threre is no reason for us to talk is there? and the fact that you think mesmer is more flexible then thief is another joke in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AldKai.9712 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > > > > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > > > > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > > > > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > > > > > > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > > > > > > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. > > > > > > I wonder how many AAA MMO games you have helped design or balance or maintain...ha yes...none > > > > I have never served in any government position either but that doesn't mean I'm unqualified to vote. > > > > I bet you never produced any wine in your life but doesn't that mean you should not be allowed to drink any? > > I can vote..and hope for the best and I can drink wine..but I won't be able to really discern a good one from a great one as I lack the practical experience to do so, do you get my point? > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > > > > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > > > > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > > > > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > > > > > > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > > > > > > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. > > > > > > I wonder how many AAA MMO games you have helped design or balance or maintain...ha yes...none > > > > I have never served in any government position either but that doesn't mean I'm unqualified to vote. > > > > I bet you never produced any wine in your life but doesn't that mean you should not be allowed to drink any? > > I can vote..and hope for the best and I can drink wine..but I won't be able to really discern a good one from a great one as I lack the practical experience to do so, do you get my point? That by your own logic you are completely unqualified to judge my comments because you lack the practical experience of being me. Got it. > @"Tayga.3192" said: > Let's break this down shall we: > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > EDIT: I bet you didn't even know that Endure Pain has no effect on condition damage. In fact nothing does. Every single defense in the game affects power > Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions. Power isn't affected by resistance and cleanses but it is affected by toughness, weakness and protection. > Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage. You can take resistance runes etc for passive condition reduction. > > > which requires three different stats to be effective. > Let me copy paste one of my recent comments: > "Where is this 1200 condition damage 900 vitality 900 toughness amulet everyone keeps talking about? Nearly every condi amulet has either precision or power. By the way, conditions scale less with condition damage. Poison has like 0.06 coefficient lol. Confusion's DoT doesn't even scale with condition damage, it always does 10 damage per second flat." > > > Only one single countermeasure exists for condition damage, and it's an active, costly one, aka cleanse. > Explained above. > > > Power got nerfed while condi has not > Except it did. A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. > > > and any mesmer can do 22k damage from prone position and the average standing damage of most burn-focused classes is 54k over 8 seconds (and they say Power is burst-based...). > Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. > > > That's also why I don't let streamers and other professional socialites think for me. > That's the only correct thing you have said in this post. > Let's break this down shall we: 'I have never played PvP in the last month and will persist to claim that not every player in Gold+ is running condi damage for a certain reason' It is literally out there, if you bothered to open your game and play above Bronze. 90% of your death screen recaps will consist of 50k+ condition damage, you know, because if you fought someone with a power build, you'd be able to counter it and actually win. >Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage Oh man that's too bad I don't play these 2 specifcally OP classes out of the 9x3 advertised professions in the whole game... >Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions Resistance: Haha yeah every class got loads of resistance to last them through the entire fight don't they Blocks: Haha yeah oh whoops it doesn't negate any damage when you've been already hit by condition attacks, and oh when you're done blocking there's heaps more! Completely negates power on the other hand. Evades: Funnily enough, when you are on fire, you cannot evade the flames already on you, or evade the blood back into your body when you're bleeding. You can, however, completely evade power attacks that need to hit you several times to do damage. Invulnerability: Oh man it's too bad not everyone is playing a Guardian or a Weaver huh? Oh wait. Since I actually play PvP, I can tell that half the players do now. Other professions, like core thief, quit. Invulnerability that also protects against Power btw. Cleanses: And now for the cheap cheap price of 30s cooldown and one of your utility slots you can remove immediately an entire stack of conditions* until it is reapplied full force one second later by the dragonhunter's fire pulse for 30k damage. *we decline any and all responsibility for when our cleanses remove the 2s Vulnerability 1 stack instead of the 10s Fire 14 >A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. Oh no You mean like a little bit of what Power builds went through Why do they still do 50k damage a fight then? Hmmmmmmmmm >Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. Please play the game. As something else than a mirage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 This will be the last answer you will get since it is not worth it anymore, you don't even listen. > @"AldKai.9712" said: > Let's break this down shall we: > >Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage > Oh man that's too bad I don't play these 2 specifcally OP classes out of the 9x3 advertised professions in the whole game... It's just an option. > >Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions > Resistance: Haha yeah every class got loads of resistance to last them through the entire fight don't they Rune of Resistance and Rune of Revenant helps a lot. > Blocks: Haha yeah oh whoops it doesn't negate any damage when you've been already hit by condition attacks, and oh when you're done blocking there's heaps more! Completely negates power on the other hand. > Evades: Funnily enough, when you are on fire, you cannot evade the flames already on you, or evade the blood back into your body when you're bleeding. You can, however, completely evade power attacks that need to hit you several times to do damage. Legit big brain moment here. You also can't negate power damage you've already got hit by. > Invulnerability: Oh man it's too bad not everyone is playing a Guardian or a Weaver huh? Oh wait. Since I actually play PvP, I can tell that half the players do now. Other professions, like core thief, quit. Invulnerability that also protects against Power btw. > Cleanses: And now for the cheap cheap price of 30s cooldown and one of your utility slots you can remove immediately an entire stack of conditions* until it is reapplied full force one second later by the dragonhunter's fire pulse for 30k damage. I have like 5-6 traits and skills used just for condition cleansing. > >A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. > Oh no > You mean like a little bit of what Power builds went through > Why do they still do 50k damage a fight then? Hmmmmmmmmm Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? > >Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. > Please play the game. As something else than a mirage too. I don't even play mirage, I play core mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AldKai.9712 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > Let's break this down shall we: > > >Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage > > Oh man that's too bad I don't play these 2 specifcally OP classes out of the 9x3 advertised professions in the whole game... > It's just an option. > > > >Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions > > Resistance: Haha yeah every class got loads of resistance to last them through the entire fight don't they > Rune of Resistance and Rune of Revenant helps a lot. > > > Blocks: Haha yeah oh whoops it doesn't negate any damage when you've been already hit by condition attacks, and oh when you're done blocking there's heaps more! Completely negates power on the other hand. > > Evades: Funnily enough, when you are on fire, you cannot evade the flames already on you, or evade the blood back into your body when you're bleeding. You can, however, completely evade power attacks that need to hit you several times to do damage. > Legit big brain moment here. You also can't negate power damage you've already got hit by. > > > Invulnerability: Oh man it's too bad not everyone is playing a Guardian or a Weaver huh? Oh wait. Since I actually play PvP, I can tell that half the players do now. Other professions, like core thief, quit. Invulnerability that also protects against Power btw. > > > Cleanses: And now for the cheap cheap price of 30s cooldown and one of your utility slots you can remove immediately an entire stack of conditions* until it is reapplied full force one second later by the dragonhunter's fire pulse for 30k damage. > I have like 5-6 traits and skills used just for condition cleansing. > > > >A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. > > Oh no > > You mean like a little bit of what Power builds went through > > Why do they still do 50k damage a fight then? Hmmmmmmmmm > Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? > > > >Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. > > Please play the game. As something else than a mirage too. > I don't even play mirage, I play core mesmer. > >Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? No it does not. Compare any warrior greatsword death breakdown to a condi build and you see the difference. > I don't even play mirage, I play core mesmer. Don't worry, it's just as bad, and I **called it**. >Rune of Resistance and Rune of Revenant helps a lot. Yes I'm sure -10% condition damage in lieue of what little power output I need to be slightly more relevant will help alleviate the damage that is enough to kill me three times already. >It's just an option. While nothing else is an option, and that's your idea of 'good' game design? >Legit big brain moment here. You also can't negate power damage you've already got hit by. Except that it is negated instantly by your defense value, defense boons and generally being fucking worthless damage wise. >I have like 5-6 traits and skills used just for condition cleansing. That's nice that your class of choice can afford to do that (or even has these skills). Mine doesn't, which makes it not meta. Oh but I wish I was running the invincible ten clones cleanse on stealth supertanky dude in light armour like you do sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 Lol, “condi you can’t defend against it.” Let me break down how this game actually works. There are unique methods for reduction damage taken of both types. Often with trade offs or choices in how your build plays. Armor/Toughness is base mitigation against power damage. Cleanse is base mitigation against Condi damage. Protection is boon based damage reduction versus power. Resistance is boon based damage reduction versus condi. Blocks, evades, invulns will negate incoming damage of all types. Blocks and evades won’t stop condi already applied from ticking, but will be able to stop the application of new condi. Some profession specific abilities also negate or reduce either power or condi. The stronger ones, complete immunity, only do one but not the other damage type. Mixed reductions usually are strong but short duration. “Only 1 stat to do damage” is another mistake people make. All builds are, technically, some kind of hybrid except for Condi/Vitality/Toughness—which doesn’t exist in sPvP. Every other condi build, and all sPvP “Condi” builds, are some kind of hybrid with more or less power damage depending on the profession, the amulets it can take and the choices the player makes about how glassy to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen.1327 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > > > tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mes > > > > > > > > power much harder > > > > > > > > > > > > > > im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels. > > > > > > > > > > > > the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes? > > > > > > > > > > you can guess that 1 yourself > > > > > > > > would be a shot in the blue, pls elaborate > > > > i wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much more > > > > condi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me > > > > > > > > > > condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile. > > > its better in every single way. > > > > ofc not, you are comparing projectiles vs aoe melee shatter and the strength of each is situational > > condi thief has 2 dodges and then nothing, what tankiness is there? this is the weakest build for node sustain i've seen for thieves > > > > yes it's strong and better suited in the current meta (as is power) but i still don't see why out of all condi thief checks out mes > > mes is more flexible and can fill more roles in 5v5, guess that's for me a reason to run it - mind you, 99% of the games is unorganized rated games > > if you dont understand why condi thief is better then condi mes then threre is no reason for us to talk is there? > and the fact that you think mesmer is more flexible then thief is another joke in itself. that wasn't even questioned, and i already mentioned that thief is better - but that's doesn't delete mes as i try to explain they dont overlap in roles fully so mes is just fine imo not sure if you understand what i mean with flexibility, it's not like condi thief can suddenly prevent decaps, take 1v1s or do anything at all other than dps but pls feel free to remove yourself from this discussion if you can't adapt as mes it's on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > Let's break this down shall we: > > > >Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage > > > Oh man that's too bad I don't play these 2 specifcally OP classes out of the 9x3 advertised professions in the whole game... > > It's just an option. > > > > > >Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions > > > Resistance: Haha yeah every class got loads of resistance to last them through the entire fight don't they > > Rune of Resistance and Rune of Revenant helps a lot. > > > > > Blocks: Haha yeah oh whoops it doesn't negate any damage when you've been already hit by condition attacks, and oh when you're done blocking there's heaps more! Completely negates power on the other hand. > > > Evades: Funnily enough, when you are on fire, you cannot evade the flames already on you, or evade the blood back into your body when you're bleeding. You can, however, completely evade power attacks that need to hit you several times to do damage. > > Legit big brain moment here. You also can't negate power damage you've already got hit by. > > > > > Invulnerability: Oh man it's too bad not everyone is playing a Guardian or a Weaver huh? Oh wait. Since I actually play PvP, I can tell that half the players do now. Other professions, like core thief, quit. Invulnerability that also protects against Power btw. > > > > > Cleanses: And now for the cheap cheap price of 30s cooldown and one of your utility slots you can remove immediately an entire stack of conditions* until it is reapplied full force one second later by the dragonhunter's fire pulse for 30k damage. > > I have like 5-6 traits and skills used just for condition cleansing. > > > > > >A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. > > > Oh no > > > You mean like a little bit of what Power builds went through > > > Why do they still do 50k damage a fight then? Hmmmmmmmmm > > Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? > > > > > >Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. > > > Please play the game. As something else than a mirage too. > > I don't even play mirage, I play core mesmer. > > > > >Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? > No it does not. Compare any warrior greatsword death breakdown to a condi build and you see the difference. I'm always interested in this point. In most power builds you would tend to see smaller numbers because skills are split by name. For conditions top aggregates conditions onto one group. You know you died to a condition but you have no idea what really applied it. Also because of the aggregation I could have easily be sustaining a Condi match up and the get plussed by a power build and die and the log would show the top skills as condition damage still even though it's not the reason you died at all. Conditions are also harder to read becsuse in the log because you get one hit per stack of a condition on your per second. There are a few more points I could make about the log but all in all it's not intuitive and a lot of the screenshots people post are interpreted incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallun.2071 Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > @"Tayga.3192" said: > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > Let's break this down shall we: > > > > >Renegade heal, holo sphere thing etc make you take 50% less condition damage > > > > Oh man that's too bad I don't play these 2 specifcally OP classes out of the 9x3 advertised professions in the whole game... > > > It's just an option. > > > > > > > >Resistance, cleanses, blocks, evades and invulns are all valid defenses against conditions > > > > Resistance: Haha yeah every class got loads of resistance to last them through the entire fight don't they > > > Rune of Resistance and Rune of Revenant helps a lot. > > > > > > > Blocks: Haha yeah oh whoops it doesn't negate any damage when you've been already hit by condition attacks, and oh when you're done blocking there's heaps more! Completely negates power on the other hand. > > > > Evades: Funnily enough, when you are on fire, you cannot evade the flames already on you, or evade the blood back into your body when you're bleeding. You can, however, completely evade power attacks that need to hit you several times to do damage. > > > Legit big brain moment here. You also can't negate power damage you've already got hit by. > > > > > > > Invulnerability: Oh man it's too bad not everyone is playing a Guardian or a Weaver huh? Oh wait. Since I actually play PvP, I can tell that half the players do now. Other professions, like core thief, quit. Invulnerability that also protects against Power btw. > > > > > > > Cleanses: And now for the cheap cheap price of 30s cooldown and one of your utility slots you can remove immediately an entire stack of conditions* until it is reapplied full force one second later by the dragonhunter's fire pulse for 30k damage. > > > I have like 5-6 traits and skills used just for condition cleansing. > > > > > > > >A lot of condi stuff got 30%ish nerfs, mirage's bleeding got 50% nerf. Expertise amulets are also rip. > > > > Oh no > > > > You mean like a little bit of what Power builds went through > > > > Why do they still do 50k damage a fight then? Hmmmmmmmmm > > > Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? > > > > > > > >Mesmer is easy kill after they do their burst. Burn builds are useless except burn DH with trapper runes, I can't believe people complain about burning lol. > > > > Please play the game. As something else than a mirage too. > > > I don't even play mirage, I play core mesmer. > > > > > > > >Death breakdown takes downed state into account where you can't cleanse, but let me guess, you didn't even know that did you? > > No it does not. Compare any warrior greatsword death breakdown to a condi build and you see the difference. > > I'm always interested in this point. In most power builds you would tend to see smaller numbers because skills are split by name. For conditions top aggregates conditions onto one group. You know you died to a condition but you have no idea what really applied it. Also because of the aggregation I could have easily be sustaining a Condi match up and the get plussed by a power build and die and the log would show the top skills as condition damage still even though it's not the reason you died at all. > > Conditions are also harder to read becsuse in the log because you get one hit per stack of a condition on your per second. > > There are a few more points I could make about the log but all in all it's not intuitive and a lot of the screenshots people post are interpreted incorrectly. > > > > thank you for saving me the trouble of typing that out. For those people who want more discussion on the interactivity of condition damage, watch around one hour and six minutes in 1:06:00 into this video to understand a less biased approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 @"saerni.2584" and @"Sigmoid.7082" Thanks for explaining instead of me, I really appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Kicast.1459" said: > > > In the end if I understand well, it is not so strong. > > > We just have to predict Spamable spells, dodge every second and cleansee every 3 second (not before else we die from confusion). > > > > > > Sounds fair, balanced and perfectly manageable. > > > > > > Thief is fine thanks again anet > > > > I mean as Vallun pointed out. What the thief is going to do has pretty big tells other than Shadow Strike. If you see the thief stealth. You know it will be following that up with a sneak attack. So you have the following options. > > > > 1. Dodge the attack because you can see the projectiles > > 2. LOS if you are near terrain > > 3. Depending on where thief is distance wise due to range of pistol you can probably just kite out the stealth. > > Except that lately the servers are laggy af, and you can't properly counter play cheese strikes from stealth like this. I haven't experienced any skill lag or lag in general at all. So if you have I am sorry. I cannot personally touch on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. > > EDIT: I bet you didn't even know that Endure Pain has no effect on condition damage. In fact nothing does. Every single defense in the game affects power, which requires three different stats to be effective. Only one single countermeasure exists for condition damage, and it's an active, costly one, aka cleanse. Power got nerfed while condi has not and any mesmer can do 22k damage from prone position and the average standing damage of most burn-focused classes is 54k over 8 seconds (and they say Power is burst-based...). That's why you're playing condi thief, and that's why, incidentally, you're defending it despite the blatant discrepancy with how unviable any build with power damage is at the moment. But you're hurting more than thief with this. > > That's also why I don't let streamers and other professional socialites think for me. The problem isnt condi thief, but condi anything. Condi thief inst better than anyother condi build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > @"Koen.1327" said: > > > > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > > > tell me 1 reason to run mesmer while condi thief exists > > > > > > > > > > > > adjust a little and condi thieves are no problem at all for mes > > > > > > power much harder > > > > > > > > > > im talking about filling a role in 5v5 not thief v mes duels. > > > > > > > > the same as always? what part of condi thief prevents running mes? > > > > > > you can guess that 1 yourself > > > > would be a shot in the blue, pls elaborate > > i wish more games were with condi thieves, rather than tempest, revs, nec which push out mes much more > > condi thief hasnt had big impact playing with or against it playing as a mes for me > > > > condi thief is like condi mes, exept it deals more damage, moves faster, is more tanky and more mobile. > its better in every single way. It deals less damage. Significantly less (you even proved that yourself). But you are right, it is more mobile. Only reason I can think of to play Condi Mes is portal, or perhaps if you want to go the triple roamer burst comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferbz.6987 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > @"AldKai.9712" said: > > > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > > > Remember when people said thief was unplayable a few weeks ago after the patch, and I had to come in and tell people thief was fine. Now when people are yelling that condi thief is too overpowered and brain dead, here I am to tell you that there are ways to counter play the build. Yes it is a bit strong right now, and I suggest that the duration of some of the condis be lowered, and the animation on shadow strike be increased. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More bad opinions from Vallun. > > > > > > > > I guess CMC's opinions are bad as well, because when I asked him about it on the dev livestream he showed almost the same opinion as me. > > > > > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingBombasticBunnyPeoplesChamp > > > > > > > > You can watch the clip yourself and see > > > > > > Ah yes one of the devs that made PvP into the hellscape that it is agreed with you about how hey guys the current cancer condi meta totally takes skill. > > > > > > It's totally worth the recourse to authority. > > > > I wonder how many AAA MMO games you have helped design or balance or maintain...ha yes...none > > I have never served in any government position either but that doesn't mean I'm unqualified to vote. > > I bet you never produced any wine in your life but doesn't that mean you should not be allowed to drink any? You would vote for Castro or Putin or Duarte or you get my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 The other day I perfectly predicted a stealth-steal-burst by counting seconds and dodge. I activated magnetic aura and reflected a couple of shots before he stowed. Stunned him, he Shadowstepped away. I ran at him to smash his face. He Shadow Striked, immobilized me and ran off using Shortbow/Shadowstep/whatever. Zero chance to punish his mistakes, he could just go ahead and try again. Condi thief surely doesn't feel OP, as I can always switch to support bot tempest whenever I see one and basically hardcounter it. But it sure feels cheap, easy to play and very hard to punish for many specs due to range, stealth and lots of teleports. That's a combination people don't like, the same was valid for unfun stealth power DEs, core power mesmers and whatnot. No need try to philosophize on condi damage, make offensive builds punishable... D/P thief is a great example for this. It has burst, it has stealth and mobility. But if it fails his burst and you turn around? It needs to disengage, move away and _cannot apply his damage anymore_. So I agree with the point: Change the burst to DPS, reduce disengage abilities somehow (increasing initiative costs (lol) for certain skills, casttimes, whatever), destroy the spec if you have to. I don't want to be forced to play boring support tempest for all the very skillfull condi thieves out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferbz.6987 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > The other day I perfectly predicted a stealth-steal-burst by counting seconds and dodge. I activated magnetic aura and reflected a couple of shots before he stowed. Stunned him, he Shadowstepped away. I ran at him to smash his face. He Shadow Striked, immobilized me and ran off using Shortbow/Shadowstep/whatever. Zero chance to punish his mistakes, he could just go ahead and try again. > > Condi thief surely doesn't feel OP, as I can always switch to support bot tempest whenever I see one and basically hardcounter it. > > But it sure feels cheap, easy to play and very hard to punish for many specs due to range, stealth and lots of teleports. That's a combination people don't like, the same was valid for unfun stealth power DEs, core power mesmers and whatnot. No need try to philosophize on condi damage, make offensive builds punishable... > > D/P thief is a great example for this. It has burst, it has stealth and mobility. But if it fails his burst and you turn around? It needs to disengage, move away and _cannot apply his damage anymore_. > > So I agree with the point: Change the burst to DPS, reduce disengage abilities somehow (increasing initiative costs (lol) for certain skills, casttimes, whatever), destroy the spec if you have to. I don't want to be forced to play boring support tempest for all the very skillfull condi thieves out there. Either or, both and you destroy thief - hence why thief's are decap/+1 bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumcheg.1936 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > The other day I perfectly predicted a stealth-steal-burst by counting seconds and dodge. I activated magnetic aura and reflected a couple of shots before he stowed. Stunned him, he Shadowstepped away. I ran at him to smash his face. He Shadow Striked, immobilized me and ran off using Shortbow/Shadowstep/whatever. Zero chance to punish his mistakes, he could just go ahead and try again. > > Condi thief surely doesn't feel OP, as I can always switch to support bot tempest whenever I see one and basically hardcounter it. > > But it sure feels cheap, easy to play and very hard to punish for many specs due to range, stealth and lots of teleports. That's a combination people don't like, the same was valid for unfun stealth power DEs, core power mesmers and whatnot. No need try to philosophize on condi damage, make offensive builds punishable... > > D/P thief is a great example for this. It has burst, it has stealth and mobility. But if it fails his burst and you turn around? It needs to disengage, move away and _cannot apply his damage anymore_. > > So I agree with the point: Change the burst to DPS, reduce disengage abilities somehow (increasing initiative costs (lol) for certain skills, casttimes, whatever), destroy the spec if you have to. I don't want to be forced to play boring support tempest for all the very skillfull condi thieves out there. Here is some news for you. DP thief can run off even more easily than PD. Actually almost any build in this game can disengage and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuRkEr.9462 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Yea, condi thief is a bit OP right now. It puts so many conditions on target in 2 seconds that most classes can't cleanse but the cover conditions. Its a 3 second death for classes with only 4 total cleanses or less. Those are usually on a 20-30s+ cooldown and the thief can reburst you before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 imo shadow strike teleport distance is out of whack. 600 range is a lot and makes melee pretty ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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